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[BUG-230637] Loss of function - 3D devices on Mac #8269

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sl-service-account opened this issue Apr 27, 2021 · 38 comments
Closed
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[BUG-230637] Loss of function - 3D devices on Mac #8269

sl-service-account opened this issue Apr 27, 2021 · 38 comments

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@sl-service-account
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sl-service-account commented Apr 27, 2021

What just happened?

3DConnexion SpaceNavigator functionality lost mid-session. No longer detectable in Joystick Configuration preference pane.

What were you doing when it happened?

Normal Second Life visit. Using the device in conjunction with my standard setup to move and cam around. It was working and simply stopped.

What were you expecting to happen instead?

Expecting the device to function normally.

Other information

There seems to be a bug affecting 3D Joystick devices like the SpaceNavigator.
For me and other users I've chatted with and seen on the forums, it cropped up sometime last week (somewhere around April 21 for me)
This bug seems to affect Mac computers running Catalina and Big Sur, but not PCs with Windows 10.
The SpaceNavigator device I have used for a few years suddenly just stopped functioning mid-session.
Other users report that it is affecting other 3D devices as well. The device does not show up as a selectable option in the Move & View "Other Devices" Joystick Configuration.
This occurs in the newest SecondLife viewer, and has been confirmed in Firefox, Singularity, and Alchemy as well.
This device works perfectly outside of the SL universe, with CAD and other architecture and graphics software.
I have done extensive troubleshooting to rule out viewer, driver, and hardware issues and I have talked to 3DConnexion (maker of SpaceNavigator).
I have an open support ticket (#1708048) on this subject, if you would like a list of troubleshooting efforts you can see it here.

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Duplicates

Original Jira Fields
Field Value
Issue BUG-230637
Summary Loss of function - 3D devices on Mac
Type Bug
Priority Unset
Status Closed
Resolution Duplicate
Reporter Korach (korach)
Created at 2021-04-27T13:30:53Z
Updated at 2022-11-16T21:45:51Z
{
  'Build Id': 'unset',
  'Business Unit': ['Platform'],
  'Date of First Response': '2021-04-27T11:04:50.800-0500',
  "Is there anything you'd like to add?": 'There seems to be a bug affecting 3D Joystick devices like the SpaceNavigator.\r\nFor me and other users I\'ve chatted with and seen on the forums, it cropped up sometime last week (somewhere around April 21 for me)\r\nThis bug seems to affect Mac computers running Catalina and Big Sur, but not PCs with Windows 10.\r\nThe SpaceNavigator device I have used for a few years suddenly just stopped functioning mid-session.\r\nOther users report that it is affecting other 3D devices as well. The device does not show up as a selectable option in the Move & View "Other Devices" Joystick Configuration.\r\nThis occurs in the newest SecondLife viewer, and has been confirmed in Firefox, Singularity, and Alchemy as well. \r\nThis device works perfectly outside of the SL universe, with CAD and other architecture and graphics software. \r\nI have done extensive troubleshooting to rule out viewer, driver, and hardware issues and I have talked to 3DConnexion (maker of SpaceNavigator).\r\nI have an open support ticket (#1708048) on this subject, if you would like a list of troubleshooting efforts you can see it here.',
  'ReOpened Count': 0.0,
  'Severity': 'Unset',
  'System': 'SL Viewer',
  'Target Viewer Version': 'viewer-development',
  'What just happened?': '3DConnexion SpaceNavigator functionality lost mid-session. No longer delectable in Joystick Configuration preference pane.',
  'What were you doing when it happened?': 'Normal Second Life visit. Using the device in conjunction with my standard setup to move and cam around. It was working and simply stopped. ',
  'What were you expecting to happen instead?': 'Expecting the device to function normally. ',
  'Where': 'global',
}
@sl-service-account
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Whirly Fizzle commented at 2021-04-27T16:04:51Z

Hiya Korach,

Does BUG-229699 look like the problem you are having?

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Korach commented at 2021-04-27T21:41:12Z

Hi Whirly,

That bug does not match what I have seen. My issue was on a stable install of Mac Catalina, not after an OS update. My SpaceNavigator didn't act erratically, it just simply stopped and is no longer selectable in the Joystick Configuration panel of Preferences. It just simply stopped functioning mid-session and is no longer found. This is the case across 4 viewers I've tried. Other users with similar experience have seen it on Mac Catalina, Big Sur, and have stated it's NOT an issue in Windows10.

Read below for my troubleshooting efforts duplicated here from my support ticket per recommendation from Vix Linden...

I have used the SpaceNavigator successfully with SL for a few years. It worked great in the SL viewer, as well as Firestorm, Singularity, and Alchemy.
It literally just stopped responding and would not let me re-select it under Joystick Configuration one day last week while I was mid-session.
I was in Firestorm’s latest viewer at the time. I logged out and tried SL Viewer, it too was not functioning. I tried the other two I mentioned, also no luck.
I think I’ve done pretty extensive troubleshooting on my end, still no luck… here’s what I’ve tried:

I tried unplugging & replugging the device, and I tried swapping device USB cables around. I checked the device on my Mac’s System Information list and it lists normally. I tried in several CAD software packages and it works normally.

I tried restoring versions of the SL viewers (SL and Firestorm) from a day earlier when it was working normally, with no luck.

I then did complete reinstalls of SecondLife Viewer and Firestorm. My process is actually more thorough than the one in your link. I put the app in the trash, trashed the cache files, and also trashed “application support” and “preferences” entries; then I trashed & made sure the 3DConnexion SpaceNavigator drivers were up to date.

Upon reinstalling my viewers, the problem persists. I cannot see or select SpaceNavigator in the Joystick Configurations of any viewer, where up to last week when it “just stopped”, it worked perfectly.

My machine also runs several CAD and graphics packages that require SpaceNavigator. It continues to work normally with every one of them. Once upon a time, to use the SpaceNavigator in SL we had to uninstall the 3DConnexion drivers. I uninstalled them and checked - it did not work. I reinstalled as I need them for my work software.

I contacted 3DConnexion directly to see if they had any insight. They informed me that they haven’t worked directly with LL since around 2016, that you don’t directly use their drivers. The tech did a bit of investigating and thinks - since it worked and now doesn’t and I’ve done a fair amount of troubleshooting - it’s something related to a server update/restart on your end. They suggested letting you know that something is amiss so you may investigate, and suspect I am the first of many checking in with them about this :)

There are several other users on the forums that have noted the same issue, occurring the same way - sudden loss of use - around the same time as myself, none have resolved it.

At this point I can think of no other troubleshooting beyond what I’ve already done. It’s not viewer specific, it affected all at the same time and continues to after full reinstalls. It doesn’t appear to be hardware or driver issues since it works normally outside of the SL environment. It no longer works with restored older versions where it previously worked, nor with virgin reinstalls.

 

Thanks!

--Korach

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AdusayImamu commented at 2021-05-01T23:14:54Z

I thought it was only me. I had the issue shortly after the latest update of Phoenix Firestorm. Like Korach, I have tried several viewers with the same results. I am currently using a MAC with Big Sur 11.3 installed. Any help would be great. My 3D Navigator makes SLife so much better. 

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Dakota Schwade commented at 2021-05-02T03:14:49Z

Mac 10.13.6 (High Sierra) – updated from the Linden Viewer 6.4.17 to 6.4.18 – doing that caused my Space Navigator to longer function – in Preferences -> Move & View -> Other Devices the SpaceNavigator appears in the drop-down menu for Devices, but does not "stick" when selected – the Navigator works outside of Second Life – the Space Navigator also no longer functions using the 6.4.17 viewer.

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Kiera Rae commented at 2021-05-04T19:42:24Z

I have the same problem, Big Sur and my mouse is no longer working with any of the viewers. I also tried all the different viewers out there non of them worked. My mouse works great with other programs. I also visited the 3D forms, but non seem to be helpful. 

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Kyle Linden commented at 2021-05-21T18:51:22Z

Hello everyone,

In the latest Mac Big Sur 11.13.1, I am able to use the 3D SpaceNavigator successfully, with a few hiccups. Here are my scenarios and observations.

  • I do not have any additional software from 3D connexion installed.

  • The left button toggles Flycam mode as expected.

  • The right button toggles flying off as expected.

  • I do see the mouse icon move dramatically into the corners of the display screen when using the 3D mouse. Odd, but only an issue if some menu under that mouse pointer is triggered.

  • I do sometimes experience that turning the space mouse knob will instead cause the camera to zoom in or out, but this is easily corrected by pressing either the ESC key on my keyboard or pressing the left button on the 3D mouse to reset view and controls.

    Are there more issues in Mac Big Sur being experienced than I have described?
    Please note that the 3D Spacenavigator is not officially supported by Second Life but we do not want to intentionally prevent its use in world either. Some of these issues are definitely related to OS updates and we have little control over those, so it is best to keep the OS updated regularly.

    Please let me know if there is anything else to report.

    Thanks!

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Korach commented at 2021-05-21T22:53:03Z

Hi Kyle, I am aware of that there is a different bug report with a similar issue for Big Sur. My issue is not Big Sur related, but Catalina and does not quite match that experience. 
My setup has been working normally for quite a long time. It “just stopped” one day mid-session. This was not related to any OS update, my version (10.15.7) remains the same. 
I will not re-write any of my troubleshooting steps (see above) but I did investigate a little, not sure this helps…
 
I’ve checked my software installation logs. It appears that on 4/15/21 Apple pushed out security updates to their xprotect and MRT packages. These are done in the background by an OS process without user knowledge. They are usually pretty quiet about what these updates contain, usually malware signatures and other security patches such as (I think) certs, notarizations, etc. Any other Mac user would have received these updates as well. It appears that this issue began shortly thereafter and I began troubleshooting the SpaceNavigator problem on 4/20/21 by downloading and reinstalling 3DConnexion drivers followed by viewers, etc… (none of which helped the situation).  Perhaps this security process has broken something necessary for SL 3D Devices? 
 
But beyond that… my OS remained/s Catalina. None of the steps you bulleted match my experience. 

  • I do have the 3DConnexion drivers installed and this has worked normally for years. The drivers are required on this machine for other CAD and 3D software that share the device.
  • I get no preferences option to select a 3D device of any kind, my choices are “none” or “mouse” and “mouse” is not selectable.
  • No buttons function whatsoever in SL (in the official viewer, Firestorm, Alchemy, or Singularity - they all worked no all do not).
  • I get no mouse movement when moving the knob. 
  • I have tried unloading 3DConnexion drivers and running without them. No change.
  • I have tried updating 3DConnexion drivers and reinstalling. No change.
  • I have updated all of the viewers mentioned. No change.
     
    I would test your suggestions with BigSur but some production software I use for my work is lagging a patch for the newer OS and requires Catalina for the time being.
    Perhaps other users with similar experience can add more input on this and narrow in on a solution. Thanks for your attention on this. 

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AdusayImamu commented at 2021-05-26T10:58:15Z

Hello Everyone. I just upgraded to <ac OS Big Sur 11.4. I was hopeful by some of the other comments that the 3D Navigator would be working properly with the update. I was saddened when it didn't/ I can sort of zoom in and out with the Navigator but with no real control. I still can't use the navigator to move my avatar.  I have noticed when trying to choose the 3D Space Navigator from the drop down it can't be selected. The function for actually moving around using the 3D Navigator was such a breeze. I hope someone is seriously looking to this. I am sure a number of designers use this. 

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AdusayImamu commented at 2021-05-26T11:00:33Z

update! It started working shortly after I posted this comment! Life is back and I am soooooo happy again

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Kiera Rae commented at 2021-05-26T15:01:45Z

Can you tell me what you did? I have Big Sur 11.4 as well. Just downloaded it. What viewer do you use in sl? What settings? Because it works with all other programs but not with sl

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Kiera Rae commented at 2021-05-26T15:18:41Z

Still not working, downloaded the latest Linden viewer, but my mouse doesn't do a thing. 

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Korach commented at 2021-05-26T20:41:59Z, updated at 2021-05-26T23:52:04Z

Congrats Adusay!
 
I have found limited function restored after updating to Big Sur (11.4). My experience is as follows:
 

  • Outside of the SL universe, 3DConnexion devices need a driver update to function on macOS 11.4, I updated my driver to v10.7
  • Device still does not work in SL Viewer or Firestorm with driver loaded.
  • It does function (sort of) if I uninstall 3DConnexion’s driver. It used to work (for years) with the driver installed, running without is sub-optimal solution since to achieve this required drivers are unloaded and unavailable for software I use do create 2D/3D work.
  • The functionality now seen is not great. Flycam works. Walk forward and backward and view tilt works. Rotating the device to the left “sometimes” causes zoom-out. Rotating the device to the right “sometimes” enters Mouselook. This seems to be aggravated by simultaneous motion of the normal mouse. This makes it mostly unusable for general walking around, but is ok for Flycam. 
  • Preference Joystick Configuration shows “space navigator” as an option but is still not selectable. Though device shows “none”, parameter adjustments do affect spacenavigator function. 
  • I don’t think this is “fixed” in macOS 11.4 Big Sur, for me at least the functionality is better than recent days, but still hobbled and more of a kludge. My non-programmer wild-guess is that Apple did something that broke it, with their April security updates, codesigns, a change in how they handle extensions, or something like that…
  • I will be re-installing my 3DConnexion drivers required for my work software. Will have to go without in SL. 
  •  I realize 3D devices may not be “officially supported” but Official Support may be a good thing. Many many SL content creators, builders, photo/videographers, etc use this type of devices to create RL content (such as myself, an architect) or with software packages to build for SL. The fact that this is a Mac issue may marginalize it due to smaller user base, but we’d like a fix! :) Thanks for your attention to this, it’s much appreciated.
     

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AdusayImamu commented at 2021-05-26T23:33:11Z

Well, it was short-lived. I had a fantastic day shopping using the Space Navigator. I was able to move about and stand and survey the entire store using flycam if I  chose to. It was glorious! Then when I logged in this afternoon, it was like Cinderella and the ball. Everything was as it once was. I have no idea what set it in motion to work or what caused it to revert again. SO back to the drawing board. Help us fairy Godmother!

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Kiera Rae commented at 2021-05-27T08:24:24Z

It seems that they are all pointing at each other, but my device works fine with all other program's I use. It just doesn't talk to the viewer of sl. So, the bug must be in there. So, please help us out!!!!

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JIRAUSER334899 commented at 2021-06-09T19:22:09Z, updated at 2021-06-09T19:30:40Z

Adusaylmamu - I think this is the solution to your problem:-

 

  • The 'Joystick' dropdown in the latest Firestorm doesn't work

  • Create a new folder 'Old Firestorm' in Applications and download the previous Firestorm from https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_older_downloads and drag the file from the DMG to 'Old Firestorm.'

  • Launch the old Firestorm and change your joystick to 'Spacemouse Compact'. You can quit now and use the new version of Firestorm again. 

     

    All good?

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Korach commented at 2021-06-10T16:10:18Z

UK89201, thanks for this, however I’ve tried it as described and it doesn’t work. Everything is identical to previous descriptions of the issue. 
 
What I tried based on your suggestion:
Opening the previous version (or the one before that) in the manner you mentioned, there is no “pull down” for joystick configuration however Joystick is recognized as SpaceNavigator and is checked. The only change that can be made is to check or uncheck. The device does not respond in any way. Also, device unplug/replug remedies do not help. 
Closing this and reopening New Firestorm, it still shows “none” and the pulldown shows - but does not allow slection of - SpaceNavigator. 
 
I repeated the above with 3DConnexion drivers unloaded and experienced the same weird functionality as described in my 26May entry. This suggested method made no difference. 
 
So… suggestion appreciated but no change here.

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Korach commented at 2021-07-23T21:09:47Z

Just giving this a bump.

Has anyone found any solutions/workarounds for this one yet?

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Ona Waffle commented at 2021-07-25T14:57:16Z

Nope not yet. I still can't get it working either.

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Korach commented at 2021-07-25T22:17:04Z, updated at 2021-07-27T14:20:27Z

I was lucky enough to have a workaround suggested - and it works! [MacPro6,1 BigSur]

In your viewer, ignore settings in Preferences and go to the Advanced menu on the menubar. Open "show debug settings". In the search bar enter JoystickEnabled and set the resulting setting to TRUE.

Test your SpaceNavigator (or other 3Djoystick). If it's still not working, you may need to delete the 3DConnexion drivers from your machine (I had to do this).

It should work normally now. Settings within the Preferences page should still work even if it says "none" at the top.

It's not 100% perfect, there may be some weird cursor jumps and zooming effects as it seems to have a collateral effect on the mouse/scroll function, but it's far better than no SpaceNavigator. Checking the box in the Preferences View menu for "don't use the mouse wheel to control zoom level of the camera" seems like it may help with the random zooming.

[Thank you to Erik Mondrian and others in the 3DConnexion Space Cadets group chat for pointing out this workaround!]

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Dakota Schwade commented at 2021-07-26T13:11:24Z, updated at 2021-07-26T13:13:45Z

I can confirm Korach's solution, it worked for me on macOS 10.13 High Sierra.

Delete the 3Dx drivers, restart, set JoystickEnabled to TRUE (and I also set JoystickAvatarEnabled to FALSE) and my beloved Space Navigator is once again allowing me to Flycam as before.

I tried using the Space Navigator prior to driver deletion and it did not succeed.

Thank you Space Cadets!

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Kiera Rae commented at 2021-07-27T11:32:43Z

I tried this on my MacBook with Big Sur/FS but nothing. 

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JIRAUSER334899 commented at 2021-07-27T11:40:50Z

Hi Kiera - can I confirm you have uninstalled the driver then ensured space mouse is selected (still selectable with the previous version of FS)? If the driver is installed because of your work in other 3D programs, I can sadly confirm that it’s a constant that the Space Mouse will not work under any circumstances when a) drivers are installed b) OS is Big Sur

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Korach commented at 2021-07-27T15:01:39Z

I tested this on a MacPro6,1 with BigSur and a Macbook Pro9,2 with Catalina. This method above - JoystickEnabled=TRUE works with both, however on the Macbook I had to set JoystickAvatarEnabled to TRUE before the SpaceNavigator responded. This isn't a perfect workaround and various settings may require a bit of tweaking based on user settings/equipment. And it is "less than optimal" to unload drivers we need for other non-sl software. "SpaceNavigator users on Mac" is probably a small enough subspecies of user that we're not going to be on anyone's radar for a real fix anytime soon so this will help get us functioning for now!

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Kiera Rae commented at 2021-08-02T11:11:27Z

I uninstalled the driver and set both on True but it only did a bit of mouse view for a sec, but no fly cam no moving on the avie. I really wish there was something that would get it fixed. I still do not know where the problem lies. I so miss my fly cam when I building on sims. Working with the latests FS and Big Sur.

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Kiera Rae commented at 2021-08-02T11:37:11Z

okay, yes it is working a bit now, but flycambutton is now on the right instead of the left and when I move forward I have to push the mouse backward, and it doesn't really work so smooth, it is like it feels a bit loosely and not as tight as it was. Any idea about settings?

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Dakota Schwade commented at 2021-08-02T13:18:49Z

So, initial euphoria has been dampened by actual experience, but all is not lost, at least for me.

After removing the 3Dx drivers the Space Navigator was once again recognized by the Second Life viewer. However, it turns out that the Space Navigator was sending cursor movement information not only to the SL viewer but also to macOS simultaneously. Pan left, watch the viewer scene and macOS cursor move that way. Pan down, watch the scene move and the cursor reveal my hidden macOS dock at the bottom of the screen. Pan right ... you get the idea.

As an added annoyance, in regions with, oh, say, more than a prim cube rezzed in it, using the Space Navigator as a Flycam (which is all I ever do with it) resulted in a spinning, out of control experience that eventually wound up with the camera being positioned in a nearby region. Almost as if the camera was bouncing off of objects.

I fiddled with the many, many settings contained within Preferences > Move & View -> Other Devices to no avail. This provided some knowledge - http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Joystick_Flycam

What to do? What to do? I wanted to regain separation between the viewer and macOS, and desperately wanted to regain Flycam functionality. I decided that could only be accomplished by reinstalling the 3Dx drivers. And that's exactly what I have done.

I am on macOS 10.13.6 High Sierra. I had at my disposal years worth of previously downloaded 3Dx driver packages. I searched for the very first one that mentioned support for High Sierra, 3Dx version 10.5.3, and installed it. Much to my delight functionality seems to have returned to what it was before whatever it was that took place removed Space Navigator usefulness.

I shall continue to Flycam my way around Second Life and, if I encounter any other noteworthy issues, will report back.

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Korach commented at 2021-08-02T16:30:12Z, updated at 2021-08-02T18:35:12Z

Not sure this adds anything beyond my previous recent comments other than another voice with continued similar issues... I noticed that the latest Firestorm viewer has had some small updates to the Joystick Configuration preference page, most notably now it shows "Space Navigator" as the active device where it has been saying "none" and not allowing SN to be selected at all. There are some stray mouse cursor and camera conflicts/controls occurring when moving the 3D device which cause the cursor to jump off of the viewer screen or affect an in-viewer window (zooming the camera, a map, or similar). I controlled the inadvertent camera zooms when moving the avatar by checking the button in the Move/View settings "don't use the mouse wheel to control zoom level of the camera". The cursor jump oddities I'm seeing are mostly related to flycam use and not the general avatar motion. As there is no 3DConnexion driver loaded, there is no ability to calibrate the device, which once was the remedy for the spinning-out-of-control problem after an OS or driver update. Still a work in progress.... somewhat more functional that before but glitchy. I am traveling without my Space Navigator but will experiment further when I return. 

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Whirly Fizzle commented at 2021-08-02T16:38:16Z

For those of you having problems with the camera spinning out of control, does setting the debug setting DisableMouseWarp to TRUE help?
Note when DisableMouseWarp is set to TRUE, panning in mouselook will be limited to 180 degrees.

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Kiera Rae commented at 2021-08-02T16:43:50Z

Dakota, I have that too, I am on Big Sur, and I can't go back to an other one. The flymodus still doesn't work so well, I got the dock too in screen. I hope it will work again with the drivers.

and yes Korach I will try your settings.

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davidjames.irwin commented at 2021-08-17T23:41:44Z, updated at 2021-08-23T19:51:49Z

No go for me on either big sur or monterey. The only way i can use navigator is dual boot to catalina with the drivers installed either  current prod. or beta. The beta drivers have been out forever long after big sur went prod. and not hopeful finding an alternative solution. Ive been watching this issue since last  year so bloody depressed that anything is going to be done. Ive been using the navigator for so long i've forgotten how to move and cam with out it. 

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Kiera Rae commented at 2021-09-01T13:30:10Z

I still do not have real function back, I did it with the uninstallment but that makes the darn thing so bad to control. I really hope I can use it again.

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davidjames.irwin commented at 2021-11-11T16:44:02Z

I wish there was some progress on this issue. I have to keep an intel Mac around  just to run Catalina to use this device with FS/SL.

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Kiera Rae commented at 2021-11-11T17:09:12Z

Same here @david conundrum I watch it too!! But with the new version no luck either.

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Korach commented at 2021-11-12T21:18:15Z

Kiera, David, and everyone,

Just my observations... after taking my MacPro6,1 to macOS  12.0.1 the issue remains unchanged.

With Firestorm, the device operates acceptably well with the 3DConnexion v10-7-0-r3386 driver uninstalled from the machine. With the drivers installed on the machine, it does not function at all - though it does appear - and is selectable - in Joystick Configuration. Before I was able to check the Firestorm debug settings with the drivers loaded, my machine crashed so I unloaded drivers when it restarted.

With SL viewer, it does not function at all if drivers are on the machine. With the drivers uninstalled, the device function is unusably erratic.

Those of us who use our machines for RL work and for SL are still awaiting a solution that allows drivers to be present.

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Kiera Rae commented at 2022-01-13T11:22:22Z

Does any of you have any news if we can use our mouse again in second life?

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Korach commented at 2022-01-13T15:21:26Z

I have not found any change on this issue, Kiera. On both my MacPro MacOS 12.1 and my MacBookPro (latest Catalina) behavior is same as my last post above. Currently, I need the drivers loaded for my work apps as a priority so I either load & unload as needed, or go without in SL. Perhaps someone with more technical background can suggest a terminal command that would disable/reenable the driver without delete/reinstall each time. Otherwise that seems to be the workaround for now.

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Kiera Rae commented at 2022-02-11T16:08:52Z, updated at 2022-02-11T16:09:34Z

thanks Korach, I was hoping for a solution, I am on Monterey and thought maybe this will help but no.

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Kyle Linden commented at 2022-04-28T17:54:08Z, updated at 2022-04-28T17:59:08Z

Hi Korach,

Closing this issue officially as a duplicate of BUG-229699. That said, we're going to address this issue in a future maintenance release.

Please preview this viewer with some "Joystick" fixes.
https://releasenotes.secondlife.com/viewer/6.5.5.570983.html

Thanks

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