Willow Wilder commented at 2020-03-23T00:57:18Z

Added screenshot of how the login screen appears when using Firestorm Release 6.3.2.

Dan Linden commented at 2020-03-23T18:19:40Z

Hi Kyrie,

We have fixed a bug related to the Intel UHD Graphics 630 for BUG-225655.
The bug you describe is different, but can you try our EEP viewer and see if that resolves the issue? You can download it here: https://releasenotes.secondlife.com/viewer/6.4.0.538823.html

Please can you try the EEP-RC viewer above & comment back here to let us know if this fixed the problem you are having. Then press the "Info Provided" button.

Thank you,
Dan

Kyrie Deka commented at 2020-03-23T19:15:49Z

Hi Dan,

I followed the link, and installed the 64 bit, to the same issue. I uninstalled it.

I tried the 32 bit version, and it appeared to find an update and installed, and then to the same issue. 

Kyrie

Dan Linden commented at 2020-03-24T17:51:04Z

It was worth a shot.

We need some logs to debug this further. Please reproduce the login failure and then before relaunching the viewer, zip up your viewer logs folder and attach it to this issue using More Actions -> Attach files. This page tells you where to find the logs folder: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/How-to-report-a-bug/ta-p/733545#Section_.3

Then click the Info Provided button again.

Thank you.

Kyrie Deka commented at 2020-03-24T20:49:10Z

Reinstalled and ran 64 bit, and closed the Viewer at the point of black background.  Attached log files. Thanks!

Dan Linden commented at 2020-03-26T19:17:57Z

Hi Kyrie,

Thank you for the logs. The logs indicate the viewer is choosing to run on the Intel(R) UHD Graphics 630 video card and is running into problems with it.
So there's 2 issues here.

1. Second Life should run on the Nvidia video card, and not the Intel video card.
2. Second Life should run on the Intel video card, even if slowly.
   Problem 1 may turn out to be a duplicate of BUG-228250, but work through this list:

Is it a Dell computer?
Is a second monitor connected to the laptop? If so, does disconnecting the second monitor fix the issue?
If there is an option to use Maximum Performance in the Windows Power settings, enable that and see if that makes it use the Nvidia card.

Uninstall the SecondLife viewer. Ensure the settings folder (C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\SecondLife\user_settings) is removed. Install the EEP viewer again. https://releasenotes.secondlife.com/viewer/6.4.0.538823.html
Test.

(to address issue 2) Update the Intel video drivers. https://downloadcenter.intel.com/product/98909/Intel-HD-Graphics-630
Reboot and test.

If that does not work, as a last resort, disable the Intel video card in the Windows Device Manager. This will mean the Nvidia card will be used at all times and will not be as energy efficient.

Let us know how it went and press the "Info Provided" button.

Thank you,
Dan

Kyrie Deka commented at 2020-03-29T17:08:05Z, updated at 2020-03-29T18:29:46Z

Hi Dan,

Result: Only disabling my Intel in Device Manager worked, for both SL 64 and 32 bit EEP viewers. Also worked for FS both.

Details, tested in order:

Is it a Dell computer? No. 

Is a second monitor connected to the laptop? If so, does disconnecting the second monitor fix the issue? It did not fix (desktop).

If there is an option to use Maximum Performance in the Windows Power settings, enable that and see if that makes it use the Nvidia card.  Yes setting, enabled prior to bug report, confirmed.

Uninstall the SecondLife viewer. Ensure the settings folder (C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\SecondLife\user_settings) is removed. Removed.

Install the EEP viewer again. https://releasenotes.secondlife.com/viewer/6.4.0.538823.html
Test. 

(to address issue 2) Update the Intel video drivers. https://downloadcenter.intel.com/product/98909/Intel-HD-Graphics-630
Reboot and test.  Did not fix, same experience.

If that does not work, as a last resort, disable the Intel video card in the Windows Device Manager.  Worked.  And About in SL Viewer now lists NVIDIA card (not Intel).

ADDING: My last test was the FS 64 bit and it ran fine, stellar fps, happy.  Knowing this and not wanting to change much at a time, over the next few minutes:

• I left the working FS 64 bit installed.

• I Re-enabled the Intel, so that both cards were then enabled.

• I Disabled the NVIDIA (so that only the Intel was enabled)

• I ran the FS 64 bit again, and it ran fine, with the exception of about half fps (still stellar fps and smooth performance, as a user I would be happy with it). FS in About listed the Intel card.

• I closed FS 64 bit.  Re-enabled the NVIDIA card and retried FS > FS crashed within 2-4 seconds/crash pop-up.

  So thus far I can run viewers tested on either Intel 630 alone, or NVIDIA alone (with one or the other disabled).  But I cannot run any viewers with both enabled, despite having both Win10 performance settings + NVIDIA Control Panel set to use the NVIDIA.

  ADDING: I uninstalled SL 64 bit EEP viewer, and installed and tried SL Release 64 bit. The Release works same as the EEP viewer (Intel only enabled works, or NVIDIA only enabled works, but both enabled does not work). Uncertain if this helps in determining if the EEP Intel fixes are related to this.

   

Dan Linden commented at 2020-03-30T19:00:11Z

Hi Kyrie,
Thank you for the info. I'm happy to hear you have a 64 bit viewer workaround for now.

In your forum post, you mentioned that the 64 bit viewer worked great in the past. When was the last time the 64 bit viewer worked?

Can you provide more details about "It did not fix (desktop)"? Is this a desktop or laptop computer?
Are you using a video cable connected to a monitor and do you need to move video cables when you disable a video card?

Would you run dxdiag on your computer, click "Save All Information", and attach that file to this bug?

Thank you again for your help on this.
Dan

Kyrie Deka commented at 2020-03-31T13:05:29Z, updated at 2020-03-31T14:12:38Z

Hi Dan,

You asked:

In your forum post, you mentioned that the 64 bit viewer worked great in the past. When was the last time the 64 bit viewer worked? 

Summary: After a clean Windows 10 install and over the course of that one day and after many restarts of the pc and reopening of Firestorm 64, FS ran great - best ever for me, great fps, smooth, and I built and worked it hard that day.  The next morning after pc restart, FS 64 opened to a black background. 

Details: I acquired this desktop pc, booted up the first morning, and to clean it up ran a fresh install of Windows 10, then booted up again. Firestorm 64 was installed just after that and ran great.  Over the course of that same day Windows 10 Updates ran and requested multiple restarts. After every restart I re-opened Firestorm 64 and it ran great. There may have been 8 restarts overall, and as I recall it was a long day on the pc where this updates/restart/Firestorm 64 open loop occurred successfully - maybe 13+ hours straight where Firestorm 64 worked great each time.  I shut down the pc that day, all as expected.  I started the pc the next morning as usual expecting the same, but when I opened Firestorm 64 it showed the black background.  

Can you provide more details about "It did not fix (desktop)"? Is this a desktop or laptop computer? This is a desktop.

Are you using a video cable connected to a monitor   This is a desktop pc, with two monitors. Both monitors attach to the desktop with cables.  

and do you need to move video cables when you disable a video card?  When I disabled the Intel, or the NVIDIA, I only had to go to Device Manager and right-click Disable one, or the other.  No video cables were moved in the test.

Would you run dxdiag on your computer, click "Save All Information", and attach that file to this bug? Attached.

ADDING to above testing observations:  On the workaround to disable [either the Intel or the NVIDIA in Device Manager] so that the viewers run for me, after I do that and start FS 64 successfully and leave the viewer running, I can then re-enable the one I disabled (in Device Manager), and the viewer continues to run fine.  When I do so both monitors flash as if to refresh.  Uncertain if there is an efficiency benefit to the desktop in doing so.  Also fwiw, when I forget to disable [one or the other] and start FS 64, it seems to consistently crash/pop-up after I see the notice "[checking hardware]".  

Thanks Dan!

Dan Linden commented at 2020-03-31T18:38:26Z

Hi Kyrie,

DxDiag states that one monitor is connected to the Intel video card with an HDMI cable and the other monitor is connected to the NVIDIA card with a DVI cable. Can you confirm that is accurate?

Thank you,
Dan

Kyrie Deka commented at 2020-03-31T19:12:19Z, updated at 2020-04-02T13:25:49Z

Yes, accurate:  one monitor is connected to the Intel video card with an HDMI cable and the other monitor is connected to the NVIDIA card with a DVI cable. 

ADDING: The DVI cable was the cable I disconnected/tested above, when you asked if disconnecting the second monitor made a difference.  Disconnecting the DVI cable, and leaving the HDMI cable attached, did not fix the issue.  I only tested disconnecting the DVI cable.

ADDING 04/01/20: New Observation, may/not be relative: In FS 64, working otherwise great, my "Destinations" pop-up appears visually empty, but mouseover changes to the [hand=link beneath it] and when I go ahead and click on that vacant area I am teleported to presumably current destinations.  Screen-cap shows I teleported to bloom clicking the white background of the Destinations pop-up in the FS 64 viewer.  Mentioned because this may/not be similar to black background of the viewer where though it looked like there was nothing I could click I was able to apparently login but could not see that I was or had.... Here, in Destinations pop-up, background is all white. This occurs when I have Intel disabled/Nvidia card enabled, or only the Intel enabled, or both enabled - same, all (in a single FS session where I started FS with the Intel disabled/Nvidia only enabled, and in About FS reports Nvidia throughout). 

Also, clicking to the Search pop-up doesn't load anything either/white background but I can click and the secondary pop-up appears and I can see that one fine - e.g. I can click unbeknownst to me on an "Event" area on the all-white background and the smaller pop-up results and I see it fine (screen-cap).

Screencap of the Destinations pop-up: https://gyazo.com/3a4871f5559cd38eec874ed928874aef

and of the Search - Events if relative: https://gyazo.com/9ce6907883aa18d2781d5e1c44c609d1

ADDING 04/02/20: Found time to reinstall the EEP Viewer and look at Destinations and Search pop-ups.  

• Both Intel and NVIDIA enabled = EEP viewer disappears without comment at a point visually after "Initializing texture cache".   I only see the notices as it loads then shuts down, it doesn't load far enough to see a window/background, so no login is possible.  Retried using Run as Administrator = same result.

• Intel enabled and NVIDIA disabled = EEP Viewer loads and I login and use fine seemingly.  Both Destinations, and Search pop-ups load images and working links.

• Intel disabled and NVIDIA enabled = EEP Viewer loads and I login and use fine seemingly.  Both Destinations, and Search pop-ups load images and working links.

   

Kyle Linden commented at 2020-04-02T17:30:00Z

Hi Kyrie,

First, I really want to say how much we appreciate all the troubleshooting you did with us. You're a wonderful example of how good bug reporting helps the whole Second Life community!

I think we have everything we need at this point to ask our developers to investigate further, though I'm not entirely certain whether this is a win10 update related issue or a Second Life viewer issue. Regardless, we'll do our best to reproduce the issue and investigate. Please note that I have no way to predict when this issue may be resolved, so the best thing to do is keep watching future release notes for this BUG.

Meanwhile, my best advice to work around this problem is to disable the Intel 630 GPU indefinitely.

Thank you for everything, please let us know if you have any other concerns or questions.

AndreyK ProductEngine commented at 2020-04-03T12:29:18Z

Please, try this:
Open Nvidia Control panel (Nvidia should be: 1. Available via search in start menu. 2. in the tray, right-bottom corner of the screen)
At the left part of Nvidia Window: 3D Settings -> Manage 3D settings
Now at the right part of the window switch to "Program Settings" tab and add Second Life, set preferred graphic processor to Nvidia.

Kyrie Deka commented at 2020-04-04T02:29:57Z, updated at 2020-04-04T13:42:04Z

Hi AndreyK,

Thank you for helping! I did as you suggested early in the process.  Reaffirmed tonight that the EEP viewer was added prior and shows in the list, and all settings below for the EEP viewer show set to use the NVIDIA (in several settings in the control panel).  All testing above was performed after this setting was in place. 

After rechecking this setting tonight, I retest the EEP viewer, and have the same experience as reported above.  

AndreyK ProductEngine commented at 2020-04-06T11:16:49Z

Ok, thanks for the info.

Kyrie Deka commented at 2020-04-23T13:27:37Z, updated at 2020-04-23T13:41:37Z

Update Summary: 

Workaround above no longer works (disabling Intel 630 in device manager).  I can only use the INTEL card with SL EEP and FS release now (including its preview beta release).  As of the GeForce GTX 1080 update driver to 445.87, I am unable to use my NVIDIA with SL at all.  My only option to run SL EEP and FS viewers is to direct Windows 10 system settings to use my Intel for viewer .exe files (while leaving both INTEL/NVIDIA enabled in Device Manager).  And when using the Intel for the viewer my FFS are less than half of the NVIDIA card performance (as recently experienced in the workaround in above report and used successfully through 4/16/20).

Is my NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 now unsupported?

Details:

As of 4/16/20, after updating to latest NVIDIA driver 445.87, I consistently receive the error [driver out of date or unsupported] and both SL EEP and FS 32 and 64 refuse to run.   

Tried while using SL v6_4_0_540188_x86_64, and Firestorm-Releasex64-6-3-2-58052 and FS beta preview: 

(1) Roll-back NVIDIA driver = I now receive [driver/unsupported] error on the rollback driver also (compared to above report/workaround where I did not receive this error using this prior driver version, when the INTEL disabled/NVIDIA enabled in Device Manager).  

(2) Uninstalling NVIDIA card then manually clean-install from .EXE file rollback driver = install successful, but error same [driver/unsupported] in SL EEP and FS viewers.

(3) Updated NVIDIA again to the newest driver = same error both viewers.

Finals:

Currently, with the latest 4/15/20 NVIDIA driver 445.87 installed, when I attempt to open a viewer I see:

• Both INTEL/NVIDIA ENABLED in Device Manager, WIN10 System Settings set to use "Nvidia" card for viewer .exes:  Both SL EEP and FS release and beta previewer viewers silently crash. This is same behavior from above report - unchanged. 

• Intel disabled/NVIDIA ENABLED, WIN10 System Settings set to use "Nvidia" card for viewer .exes:  error all viewers [update driver/unsupported] refusal to run.

• Both INTEL/NVIDIA ENABLED in Devide Manger, **changed WIN10 System Settings to use "Intel" card for viewer .exes:  I can login, but my FPS are less than half of performance with the NVIDIA card accepted/being used in both SL EEP and FS viewers, in the recent workaround above.  Though this is thankfully a replacement workaround to a degree, I am missing the FPS and hoping my NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 is not newly unsupported and unusable?

   

Kyle Linden commented at 2020-04-27T18:01:24Z

Hi Kyrie,

Can we get a fresh set of your viewer logs for further investigation, for each of the three scenarios.

1. Enabled/Enabled use Nvidia
2. Intel disabled/NVIDIA ENABLED use Nvidia
3. Enabled/Enabled use Intel

It is important to quit Second Life between each attempt and then copy the SecondLife.log for that session.

I have no reason to believe the Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 is not supported, but that doesn't mean there aren't any bugs...

Please let us know when you have updated the issue and press Info Provided.

Thanks!

Kyrie Deka commented at 2020-04-29T16:13:48Z

Hi Kyle,

You asked for logs from the 3 scenarios. Attaching the logs.  

Sharing it went much better in testing than when I last posted. I removed/reinstalled the EEP Release viewer and used that, I doubled checked all from Windows Defender Firewall, reset (per scenario) settings in both Nvidia Control Panel and Windows Settings (Classic App), and watched Device Manager processes to make sure the viewer had actually closed (Scenario 1 only now) before I saved the logs.

Happy to report that only Scenario 1 fails silently.  Scenario 2 and 3 are larger logs because it opened the viewer, and I was able to sign in, and About showed [the right gpu/settings].  

Not sure why all three scenarios failed silently before.  I have applied manually Nvidia hotfix driver 445.98 also which had to do with FPS hoping there might be a benefit, but cant be sure  if that helped though.  In any case, today, very carefully switching scenarios, only Scenario 1 fails silently after I click the .exe file to open the SL viewer.  (So at least I can use scenario 2 once again to force the Nvidia).  Thank you!

Kyle Linden commented at 2020-05-01T17:35:17Z

Hi Kyrie,

Thank you for updates and fresh logs. One of our developers is taking a look.

Will update you if we need anything else, otherwise may soon close the issue.

Thanks!

Kyle Linden commented at 2020-05-14T17:16:05Z

Hi Kyrie,

We're having trouble reproducing the issue. We'll keep digging though, so for now I'm going to mark the issue as Needs More Info in case you ever need to add an update or note.

If we do resolve the issue there will be a link back to this BUG report in the release notes of a future viewer.

Thanks!

Kyle Linden commented at 2020-05-15T17:50:12Z

Hi Kyrie,

I actually have one more request! Will you please provide us with the Make and model of your computer. We've got the Monitor information from the DxDiag.txt but to fully replicate this issue we're going to try and acquire the same computer for dev and QA purposes.

Please let me know and press the Info Provided button.

Thanks!

Kyrie Deka commented at 2020-05-17T22:16:08Z, updated at 2020-05-17T22:22:46Z

Hi Kyle,

FYI updates installed for Intel, but continues as reported:  I updated a new update for my Intel, then retested as above 3 scenarios again, to check impact.  Result is no change:  Only when the Nvidia GTX 1080 and the Intel UHD 630 are both enabled do current release SL and FS and beta FS .58204 fail silently.  Noting an edit to title may help, because this fail no longer reaches the "black screen" point:  When both Nvidia and Intel are enabled the viewer (all three) is initiated and I can see the initial perhaps two notifications something is starting and then poof all disappears without comment - though sometimes after a very long lag of many minutes I see a "crash report" pop-up.  So many minutes 5-10 that I cannot really tell which viewer is/not getting to the crash report point.  When I receive these, I have consistently closed them since filing this Bug report.

And

You asked for make and model of this pc.  I searched, had to dig, and I suspect this was a build by Republic of Gamers, as the Make and Model reported in most Win10 accessible stats etc. comes back as generic "make" and "model" type text reverb.  So I offer here the motherboard reported:  ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC., ROG_STRIX_Z370-G Gaming (WI-FI) AC , and I will attach the report of the CPUID CPU-Z "Republic of Gamers" version tool, which I ran while both GPU were enabled.  This may include a detail(s) you all would recognize to help further identify.  

If I can do more or run a different tool that would help, let me know!

Kyrie Deka commented at 2020-05-17T22:20:59Z

Info provided - thanks!

Whirly Fizzle commented at 2020-05-18T16:25:05Z, updated at 2020-05-18T16:26:47Z

That;s interesting you have an ASUS ROG system.
Does this system have the Asus ROG Gamefirst software installed?
Gamefirst is known to cause frequent system crashes when launching SL viewers or other weird viewer launch failures.
If you do indeed have Gamefirst installed, does uninstalling it fix this bug?

Ref: https://www.asus.com/us/support/FAQ/1032639/

Kyle Linden commented at 2020-05-18T17:51:28Z

Hi Kyrie,

Fascinating! Same request as Whirly's, please let us know!

Thanks!

Kyrie Deka commented at 2020-05-19T14:39:29Z

Hi Whirly, Kyle,

I searched high and low, and don't seem to have that installed.  Searched start apps list, Apps & Features, hard drives, website for an exact filename and searched it and parts of it. Nothing comes up.  

Dan Linden commented at 2020-05-19T18:30:20Z

One other place to look is Control Panel (click Start and type "control") > Programs, which is sometimes slightly different than Apps & Features.

Kyrie Deka commented at 2020-05-20T00:32:39Z

Hey Dan,

Thanks – that's one I didn't think of.  I took a good look at the list through Control Panel but found nothing similar to Asus or Gamefirst, name or publisher.

Kyle Linden commented at 2020-05-21T17:48:10Z

Hi Kyrie,

Thanks for all the extra info, you've been a great help. At this point we're going to do everything we can to replicate your system and conditions to try to reproduce the issue. For now keep using the workaround of disabling the Intel HD GPU for the best experience.

Thanks!

Kyrie Deka commented at 2020-08-24T15:18:21Z, updated at 2020-08-24T15:22:32Z

Sharing update:

On Windows 10 home 64 1909 (10.0.18363), as I am holding off clicking the v 2004 install button as long as possible.

New GPU drivers available today:

• Intel UHD Graphics 630 to 27.20.100.8476

• GeForce Game Ready Driver to 452.06

   

  I updated both drivers, and left both GPU "enabled" in Device Manager:  Same experience as reported above in both SL 64 release and FS 64 release 58205 viewers.  B{color:#de350b}oth viewers silently close, SL almost instantly, and FS after I see "Initializing texture..."{color}

   
  Recommended workaround continues to work:

  I go to Device Manager > Display adapters > I right-click the Intel and "disable" > no reboot and retry both FS 58205 and SL viewers, where both viewers work as expected.  

   

   

Kyrie Deka commented at 2020-11-08T20:02:44Z, updated at 2020-11-08T20:14:21Z

Sharing update:  Fixed for me.

Noting that nothing has changed on this system since initially reporting this noticeably  excepting a good number of gpu updates for both nVidia and Intel.  Same monitors, same monitor hook-ups, same Firestorm release version. And I have not changed the Windows 10 settings where both SL and FS viewers were to use the "preferred" nVidia gpu.  

============

New: 

At these gpu updates, I can now login to Firestorm as expected  without the Workaround from 8/24/20 above/disabling the Intel in Device Manager  .  

Today, these two updates were installed/restart required, and with both gpu still enabled, I repeatedly successfully logged in to FS and then checked Help > About in the viewer, which lists FS is using the nVidia.

GPU update versions: 

NVIDIA 27.21.14.5709    

INTEL 27.20.100.8935

A big yay!

Kyle Linden commented at 2020-11-09T18:32:11Z, updated at 2020-11-09T18:32:44Z

Congrats!