Arudora commented at 2019-02-08T22:52:23Z

Simname is Sticky btw

Scripts starting up consume a lot of sim CPU, it lags my region too, to the point where people cannot move for several seconds, build, or do much of anything when just one avatar enters, when many avatars enter it is unusable for up to 5-12, sometimes even 20+ seconds. There is lag caused when avatars leave as well.

I tried to counter this with a bot that would turn scripts off when TIDI dipped because of it, or when main agents went into decimal values (which seems to indicate an avatar teleporting in), it resulted in people complaining even harder because all scripts were then unresponsive for several ticks, but it did seem to help a little bit with how unusable the sim was for anything else during the most extreme primetime load we get.

When my region moved in a popular club, the largest lag was avatars entering and leaving, many of our renters complain that they cannot use the region to build in now, we are constantly under this load, too.

Distributing script startup across server ticks for avatars would help alleviate this a lot, preventing avatars from wearing attachments with a large amount of assets in them would help, too - as would flat out restricting the amount of scripts one avatar can wear. These would be very nice options that estate managers could set as to how restrictive their sims are.

As for when avatars leave that seems like avatars unloading some sort of internals only LL would know more about.

Lucia Nightfire commented at 2019-02-08T23:55:25Z

Related: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-225729

Serjourn Daxter commented at 2019-02-09T20:22:46Z

Regarding Arudora's poist: My Jira is not about avatars entering and leaving the sim, but about avatars entering NEIGHBORING sims. The comment is therefore irrelevant and should be removed and entered into its own jira. In that scenario I described it makes perfect sense to prioritize whatever people are IN the sim over whoever may EVENTUALLY enter the sim.

Solving the resource issues when people actually enter/leave the sim is a very different cup of tea.

Branville commented at 2019-02-09T21:25:54Z

Hopefully this issue will be solved soon. We're fighting this bug for years now.

Swenyia Chuwen commented at 2019-02-09T23:00:13Z

This issue is crappy as the day is long. You can't even walk 10 meters often without running through walls, fences and hills like a zombie several times.

EVERY time a CHILD AGENT gets CREATED the script run drops to NOTHING for some seconds.

We filed several tickets, filed a server bug report but NOBODY at Linden Labs cares. Surely they would care for the rent, what is understandable, but in return Linden has to do THEIR JOB to provide us a SMOOTH RUNNING sim.

We noticed that child agent problem on other sims too.

As we are a competition sim it ruins every competition and costs US MONEY, cause people stay away and DONATIONS drop. 

Those Donations are needed to PAY THE RENT.

Arudora commented at 2019-02-09T23:33:01Z

I would be happy to move my comment to a different ticket entirely, but I thought this might help Linden Lab with my own observations on the very same if not incredibly similar issue.

Does it make sense that your region is lagging due to scripts if it is not handling it just the same as if an avatar were to be entering?

How in that case is your region lagging due to scripts if the avatar is connected to a neighboring region and connected to yours as a neighbor?

Ralna Payne commented at 2019-02-10T07:54:21Z

I was yesterday on the sim, together with 3 other avatars, and even if nobody tped in our out I get in 30 sec 5 times stuck when I tried to walk. 

It is really time to work on this problem.

These people pay a lot of money for their sim - and it is not fair to let them down since more then a year!!!!!

krinlyc Willis commented at 2019-02-10T09:00:09Z

What about this bug https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-202882

Why isn't it solved? 

Swenyia Chuwen commented at 2019-02-10T14:08:00Z

@krinlyc

That is the server bug report I was talking of. We filed it MORE THAN A YEAR AGO.

There you have PROOF, that Linden Labs doesn't care for those who in the end secure their pay check. 

Swenyia Chuwen commented at 2019-02-10T14:18:24Z

@ralna

Yes, that is common insanity at The Farthest Shore. 

You have to deal with preventing to crash the keyboard right into the screen furiously, while freezing every few steps for seconds.

Renztoy commented at 2019-02-10T19:43:55Z

I've more than experienced this issue on my SL land and on  WPG and sunstone ranch. It is truly frustrating to be doing something and start rubber-banding around do to Child Agents on the neighboring sims.

Tailmon1 commented at 2019-02-10T20:00:22Z

Yep this is a huge issue in SL if your not a lone Island you end up having to endure Child Agent lag.  If your neighbor has a busy sim or club?   Your experience in SL is so crappy that the money you wasted on rent or purchasing a sim is Wasted and this is ruining your fun and experiences in SL. Its not a hard issue to solve.  Why is LL not taking care of it.  Why pay rent or for a sim if its going to run like crap?  I have had this lag spike and rubber band issue at Wild Pony girls land (Very bad due to their neighbors)  Filly Filly Farm (same issue)  Foxfire West.. My land next to FFF... Sunstone Ranch.. Come On LL fix this bug!

Serjourn Daxter commented at 2019-02-10T20:12:37Z, updated at 2019-02-10T20:59:41Z

I believe that it will be in Linden Lab's interest to fix this as their own mainland sims are absolutely affected very much! It is also "unjust" to have child agent processing on child agents in NEIGHBOR sims happen at the expense of processing of events in your own sim. After all, in many cases these avatars will never even enter your sim. Just drop priority, let the processing of child agents take a bit longer time - and everybody will be a lot happier! After all, the child agents will also see faster processing in the sim where they are agents and not child agents. I believe this will lead to substantial performance improvements in SL.

Another point here is that these "child agent freezes" are really killing the possibilities of having smooth running events like car races and pony carting in SL, as you, even in a well tuned optimized sim, can have the whole thing freeze due to activities in a neighbour sim that you may have no control over!

Serjourn Daxter commented at 2019-02-10T20:38:26Z, updated at 2019-02-10T20:55:19Z

Aurodora: I was a bit harsh here. It is a different issue, but your support will help get a higher priority - so thank you! Reading your comment I realized that your comment deserves a Jira of its own, one I'd be happy to watch and comment on!

Starbright Wingtips commented at 2019-02-10T21:36:17Z

Lag is the worst technical problem that SL has, it's so bad that it puts people off playing here. So come on Linden Labs, get this sorted out asap please

Yan Swindlehurst commented at 2019-02-10T22:00:37Z, updated at 2019-02-10T22:05:08Z

Could it be actually not affecting just the neighboring/connected sims but all sims hosted on the same server? E.g. Stones N Rubber (Kinky Magic sim) is not connected to anything - but sees these 3-5 second freezes constantly.

It certainly sounds like a high priority task blocking everything else on the machine.

Mileia Dubrovna commented at 2019-02-10T22:26:29Z

an may have a point and maybe also giving a hint to solve this issue. I am part of the Continent mentioned by Serjourn but I run my own region with it´s own server in it and I have a heacy scriptted sim. Still other sims lag doesn´t seem to affect me big time. Still I think it is an issue to be fixed asap since it can be really bothering when exploring the rest of the sims in the Continent.

Bleak DeCuir commented at 2019-02-10T22:48:54Z

My only concern about it being changed is how will it effect the aviation/sailing communities. 

lovejoyful commented at 2019-02-10T23:05:58Z

 This is a huge issue in SL if your not a lone Island you end up having to endure Child Agent lag.  If your neighbor has a busy sim or club?   Your experience in SL is so crappy that the money you wasted on rent or purchasing a sim is Wasted and this is ruining your fun and experiences in SL. It's not a hard issue to solve.  Why is LL not taking care of it.  Why pay rent or for a sim if its going to run like crap?  I have had this lag spike and rubber band issue at Wild Pony girls land (Very bad due to their neighbors)  Filly Filly Farm (same issue) ... Sunstone Ranch.. And every club that I Dj at or my customers on my DJ stream DJ at.  It is so bad at times it causes the DJ stream to lag out and music to bounce in and out. So not only is it affecting events such as car racing, only place but also events where people are coming together to share a SL experience.  It is not rocket science to know that friends talk to friends about their time and experience in SL it's  what brings more people into SL. but at the moment the lag and child agents are ruining that connection and more and more people are complaining and not wishing to subject there friends to such lag and neglect of a product.  
 Come On LL fix this bug!  When avatars arrive in a sim that is bordering on my sim, a child agent is created. This creation causes a 1-3 second script freeze in my sim (spare time increases, % scripts run drops, often too close to 0). I understand why child agents are created, but I'd really like them to run the creation process at a much lower priority than the scripts in my sim so that they don't cause any freezes.
 I should believe that it will be in Linden Lab's interest to fix this as their own mainland sims are absolutely affected very much! It is also "unjust" to have child agent processing on child agents in NEIGHBOR sims happen at the expense of processing of events in your own sim. After all, in many cases these avatars will never even enter your sim. Just drop priority, let the processing of child agents take a bit longer time - and everybody will be a lot happier and happy customers in the end will spend more and bring in new friends that will spend so it is a win win for Linden Lab’s to address this issue and fix it as after all there bottom line will be affected by it in the long run if it is not addressed.

Gedeon Hawks commented at 2019-02-11T15:31:47Z

Maybe people with high end gaming rigs don't notice it so much, but the rest of us certainly do. There are a number of factors that go into the user experience, and when the user has severely restricted his or her experience already just to be able to perform basic tasks (movement, attachments, inventory, etc), that experience becomes less and less valuable, especially if a solution is available on the LL end of things and not being implemented. In essence, paying users are being cheated out of their maximum experience by having to limit their settings just to have a basic and very choppy, laggy experience, and it's even worse that it is being limited even more through no fault of their own. It makes me wonder if the folks at LL are no longer proud of their product sinct supporting it doesn't seem to be a priority. It goes back to basics (lag) versus bells & whistles. If the basics don't function well, why add work to the platform in the form of features that will make the the load worse? Fix the basics! Please!

Serjourn Daxter commented at 2019-02-11T16:35:09Z

Even people with high end gaming rigs notice these 3-5 second freezes as the freeze is server side. Your avatar just stops moving (if it is still) or keeps on moving and then rubberbanding back if you are already moving. It is like a high priority operating system interrupt: All else stops while it is processed.

I can't see how this will affect region crossings negatively, as this is triggered by avatars rezzing in neighbour sims (teleporting in or logging on in the sim). As a "precaution", they are registered in neighbour sims, (as child agents) "just in case" they should later decide to cross into neighbour regions. It is when this registration process happens that we see the 3-5 seconds freezes - quite disruptive for any activity requiring a reasonable response time. By dropping the priority of processing child agents, other activities can keep on running smoothly.

Ayesha Askham commented at 2019-02-11T16:54:04Z, updated at 2019-02-11T16:56:28Z

I am beginning to doubt that the "child agent creation" issue is ALL that causes this issue.  I know of several sims other than those mentioned above that, while being stand-alone Estates suffer badly from these spikes.  Now clearly these cannot be caused by logins or TPs on physically neighbouring regions since there are none.  No, I believe this issue is, in part at least caused by "cross-talk" from regions on the same server as the one on which I am observing these issues.

The region that this is seen this in its most extreme is Devon Dreams, home to the Darkwing Family and for a long time one of the smoothest regions for Ponyplay I know.  Now at one time (to the best of my knowledge) Devon was on an exclusive server, ie no other regions used that server's resources.  This is no longer so, I am told, and the regions performance is more choppy than many places I visit, though it must be said, not as severe as the sim on which Wild Ponygirls resides!

This issue is sufficiently bad as to render pony-sport frustrating at best and impossible at worst.  It needs to be addressed and fixed ASAP.

I also think that this Jira being unassigned at this point is disgraceful and a bad reflection upon Lind Lab's much reported intention to improve the Second Life experience.

Greta Godenot commented at 2019-02-11T18:01:54Z

On vehicle friendly sims.
Make it a flag each sim controller can choose as an option (number and priority of child agents).  It'd be better if priorities can be different for the 'roadway' parcels than other areas of the sim.  I.E.  For sims on the mainland, make it so roads and lanes can have a bumped up priority if the agent is SITTING on something that is 'scripted'.  If the agent is not sitting on something scripted, or not flying, drop the child agent priorities in neighboring sims?

For Sims with multiple parcel owners that don't have quazi 'public' road or waterways intended to be enjoyed by vehicle users, let the parcel owners vote on the settings through their parcel settings (the result will be an average of all the parcel settings each owner as signified they 'prefer').

Arudora commented at 2019-02-11T22:28:10Z

Sim owners who do not have neighboring regions and still see this exact sort of lag that causes inability to move, build, etc, please see https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-226326 

Yan Swindlehurst commented at 2019-02-11T23:41:27Z

Arudora, I have seen this lag even when nobody was entering/leaving - I have been explicitly watching the avatar list for it as lag due avatars entering/leaving is a well known issue and I have still seen these 3-5 second long freezes. 

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-226326 may be related but it certainly isn't only that. These lag spikes do happen regardless of child avatars from neighboring regions and regardless of people entering/leaving. Something got seriously broken in about October/early November 2018 and this is happening ever since.

Swenyia Chuwen commented at 2019-02-12T12:13:04Z, updated at 2019-02-12T12:16:00Z

@ayesha and Yan

I agree, there is more to that than only child agents.

Since quiet a time we noticed at WPG, that after a restart we often had very poor script run out of the blue (10-30% only) and it flickers a lot up to 75% performance loss additionally.

We put huge effort into optimizing the sim in the past, so the common script run was always 90-100% stable (besides the child agent lag-spikes). Where does that performance break-in came from all of a sudden?

We needed several restarts after another to reach an acceptable scriptrun of maybe 80%.

Record was 8 restarts after another to get the sim running at a reasonable level. But the flickering persisted. 

We changed back from bluesteel to main channel, 4 days ago, since then the flickering is still there but at a lower intensity. There is definately something, that drowns the servers performance on which the sim is located, or maybe the datapipes are overloaded... who knows...

But the immense differences between the restarts show clearly, that there are servers with very different perfomance resources and it is kind of gambling to get your sim on a good one.

We currently have a ticket running because of that issue too, for over 2 weeks now, but Linden Lab's didn't achieve anything there (surprisingly...).

Besides that the child agent issue is a fact. EVERY time a child agents gets CREATED, and I mean really EVERY time (there is no exception), the sim freezes for 3-5 seconds.

Ayesha Askham commented at 2019-02-12T13:03:42Z

I am wondering whether the very action of leaving a region, irrespective of whether or not the destination region is contiguous (clearly with regions such as Devon, they aren't) is creating the issue on any region sharing that server? That might explain the phenomena seen on Devon AND be connected to child agent creation?

Ayesha Askham commented at 2019-02-14T17:50:04Z, updated at 2019-02-14T17:51:04Z

I'm sticking my neck out again.  I am sick of Devon being so degraded after all the work Safra Nitely and latterly Taya Maruti did trying to fix this.  I had another thought (this is probably stating the blindingly obvious but never mind).  Assuming that it is the region-crossing code that has led to the child agent creation issue;  I don't suppose the code that recognises the potential of an agent on a given region and signals the potential receiving region could be causing this cross-talk could it?  Since a region like Devon has no surrounding regions, it would be improbable that it was a valid destination from any other region.  However if regions on that same server were sending data to other valid destinations, it MAY be that this signal is causing cross-talk on the server which is affecting other non-contiguous regions on that server.  It may not be the creation of the child agents in this case (though it clearly is on Mainland regions) but merely the act of data transfer sim-server region to region.  This issue of server crosstalk seems a potential issue to me, perhaps wiser folk than I can eliminate this possibility.

Arudora commented at 2019-02-14T18:38:01Z

[~ayesha.askham]

Login / logoff in a sim, no child is created, Teleport into a sim, your local agent has a connection to the previous sim and you are a child agent in that previous sim.

So yes?