[BUG-11132] [BENTO] Requests for additional bones and attachment points #1375
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Vir Linden commented at 2016-01-05T14:43:52Z Additional spine joints have been requested multiple times, especially for the neck. One proposal suggested changing the meaning of mHead and mSkull to turn one of them into a neck joint. |
Vir Linden commented at 2016-01-05T14:44:25Z Toes |
Vir Linden commented at 2016-01-05T14:44:55Z Single per-foot ball of the foot joint. It appears that the existing mToe joints should work for this. |
Vir Linden commented at 2016-01-05T14:46:57Z Nipple attachment points. It wouldn't be possible to do this in a way that would work for the default avatar, given the existence of avatar physics. Might be something that could work for mesh avatars. |
Vir Linden commented at 2016-01-05T14:47:52Z Additional ear joints for floppy ears. |
Gaia Clary commented at 2016-01-05T15:03:33Z, updated at 2016-01-05T18:26:00Z Add 3 mBones on the symmetry axis to make animations of face expressions easier: mFaceLowerLipCenter About Lips and Eyes So, do we loose something (for humans) when we only have 4 lip bones? Here is an alternative bone setup proposal for eyes and mouth: mFaceLipUpper (centered) mFaceEyeBrowUpperRight (centered) mFaceEyeBrowUpperLeft (centered) mFaceEyeLowerRight (centered) Only 1 wing root but 2 tails mWingsRoot This change allows to add a second pair of legs which are attached to mPelvis instead of mChest. Alternative to the 2 tails solution: "constraints" This idea came to our minds when we where working on the bone constraints for the Avastar IK Rig. The idea is: Parent the Wings root to the Spine, but also add for example a (configurable) constraint to the local rotation of mChest to mWingRoot. If possible make the constraint target configurable, so that users can "clamp" the wings to mChest, or mTorso or mSpine, or mhead, ... To explain this a little better: This idea does not change the topology of the Skeleton. It only adds bone movement constraints which make one bone (the driven bone) follow another bone (the controlling bone). Bone constraints are very common in animation programs, so maybe it is also doable in the Second Life Viewer. We use this technique in Avastar to separate the deform bone animations from the Rig (so we could add IK based animations) Generalize constraints Thinking even further, if location constraints where allowed, then this idea allows to constrain any limb to any bone. Wings could then be constrained to eye brows for antennas, tail(s) could be constrained to chest for 4 winged creatures, etc. |
Veron Helstein commented at 2016-01-05T18:01:07Z, updated at 2016-01-05T18:05:10Z I whould like to see toes as well ... make nails with heads while you are at it :) btw: I'm all for more complex wings like suggested in 10988 |
Teager commented at 2016-01-05T19:50:09Z It was brought up in the thread that my original request to parent the facial bones to mSkull instead of mHead wouldn't work, because some mesh hair creators rig their hair to mSkull instead of mHead or HEAD. I ammend my original request to instead request a new parent facial bone - faceBase - in between mHead and all of the facial bones, to achieve the same purpose of allowing an extra neck bone without breaking anything. |
aki.shichiroji commented at 2016-01-07T22:25:37Z RE: neck bones: Since some issues concerning backwards compatability were raised concerning the addition of neck bones, is there any reason why we can't - rather than splitting existing neck bones - at the very least one or two extra bones be added above mSkull, and to accept animations for them? Being able to animate mToe would also be very much appreciated. |
Vir Linden commented at 2016-01-07T22:39:20Z Is there a problem with animating mToes currently? Adding additional joints along the existing spine would be ideal, but currently causes some bugs. We will be doing more investigation on it. |
Teager commented at 2016-01-08T00:43:11Z The mToe bones can be rigged and animated, as proven by several nonhuman avatars. As far as I'm aware the only thing preventing animation of the mToe bone is mesh body creators not rigging to it, and the only thing preventing them from rigging to it is lack of animations that use it. Perhaps if the standard sl avatar were rigged to mToes, this practice might become more common. |
Vir Linden commented at 2016-01-08T14:04:27Z Updating the standard avatar is outside the scope of Bento, but could be something to consider for future work. I think the foot placement code works with mFoot rather than mToe, so keeping someone on tiptoe synced to the ground might also require some tweaking (like adjusting hover height) |
Vir Linden commented at 2016-01-20T13:54:14Z, updated at 2016-01-21T16:06:33Z Request for more wing joints - fingers. Rolling this in from BUG-10988: How would you like the feature to work? |
Vir Linden commented at 2016-01-21T18:23:58Z Gaia Clary from the feedback thread: From all what i tried so far i found that having those center bones in place has 2 advantages: Add visual center bones (mFaceUpperLipCenter, mFaceLowerLipCenter, mFaceForeheadCenter |
Gaia Clary commented at 2016-02-02T17:26:24Z, updated at 2016-02-02T18:03:06Z Here is a proposed avatar_skeleton.xml and a related avatar_lad.xml: http://blog.machinimatrix.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/avatar_skeleton.xml These files are based on the original Bento xml files and they Cathy Foil (Proposed to reduce the joint location precision) the above skeleton has been used to create this video:
Here is a detailed list of changes: == Reduced joint position precision to 4 digits == According to Cathy this is sufficient. == New bones in the face center == We added 3 bones on the symmetry line: mFaceLipUpperCenter With those new bones the automatic weight from bones feature from blender Note: From all our changes i think this one is the absolutely == New Root Bones == We added 3 root bones mFaceRootTop We used these bones here mainly for organisation and easier layout. Note: This is the least important change. == one more Bone on the ears == I found it a good idea to have those extra bones for flapping == Moved Cheek bones downwards == Medhue's reasoning sound right. When i was working on this modified == Added an additional Tail == The reasoning for this is that adding one more pair of limbs mTail1Left, mTail2Left, mTail3Left, mTail4Left, mTail5Left Although the names imply a left/right symmetry we have chosen == Removed unnecessary WingRoot Bones == We assume that we will finally get the Bone translation animations. == Moved joints to character surface == When we only have rotation animation, then we must move the
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kayla Mekanic commented at 2016-02-02T18:57:40Z Request to add two extra bones for the lips. For the lips, I would recommend 2 bones for upper lip and 2 for lower lip, instead of mUpperlipLeft MLowerLipLeft |
Gaia Clary commented at 2016-02-02T19:15:01Z I mentioned only the changes that we made based on the first Bento proposal. So in fact the new proposal contains 8 lip bones instead of the 6 from the original proposal: mFaceLipCornerLeft, mFaceLipCornerRight |
kayla Mekanic commented at 2016-02-03T09:03:12Z Even better! |
We've had some requests in the forums for additional bones and attachment points. Filing this to track the various requests in one place.
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