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[BUG-10543] Mesh validation should permit rigging to attach points #860

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sl-service-account opened this issue Oct 24, 2015 · 61 comments

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sl-service-account commented Oct 24, 2015

Rationale

There are some types of avatars for which 4 limbs, a torso, and a head, is simply not enough moving parts. Some examples:

  • animated tails

  • animated eyes, mouth, ears

  • extra limbs

  • entire secondary creatures, such as ridable animals

    The current workaround

    It is currently possible to make these types of avatars in secondlife by rigging a mesh to non-standard bone that happens to be in the skeleton, most commonly the attach points. These bones can also be animated independently, allowing the extra motion to be implemented.

    This solution is unsupported and was never intended to be possible. Nevertheless, these meshes and animations render as intended in any viewer that supports mesh. See attached GIFs for how some of these avatars look in-world
    . It became possible due to one bug and one feature:

  1. The bug: bone names are not validated when uploading meshes

  2. The feature: Uploading animations in the raw anim format became possible, rather than heavily validated bvh format (which does not permit animating attach point bones).

    There is discussion about adding the missing bone name validation: (http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-17144) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrmMwUzpcrY). While validation is a good idea, we implore linden lab to implement the validation in such a way as to allow the continued use of all available bones (including attach points) for advanced avatar creators. Until such time as a better supported solution is developed for highly animated avatars, please do not block meshes from being rigged to attach points.

    Existing avatars using attachment point rigging:

    • Breeder's Choice centaur (extra limbs)

    • Breeder's Choice quarter horse (animated face)

    • Breeder's Choice shire horse (animated face)

    • Breeder's Choice foal (animated face)

    • Breeder's Choice strider bird (ridable creature)

    • Breeder's Choice raptor (ridable creature)

    • KOT Stables centaur (extra limbs)

    • KOT Stables riding horse (ridable creature)

    • Roarbeast wyvern (animated face)

    • Dreamcrawler dragon (animated face)

    • Orange Nova sergal (animated tail)

    • Galaxian Solarian cat (animated face)

    • Red Remora fox (animated face and tail)

    • Altamura Francy (animated face)

    • Altamura Stephany (animated face)

    • Altamura Tanya (animated face)

    • Altamura Rosa (animated face)

    • Altamura Sarah (animated face)

    • Tabby Parrot (animated face)

    • Garou Werewolf (animated face and tail)

    • Cute Bytes mesh heads (facial expressions) (inworld)

    • Skidz Parts Kashira Head (facial expressions)

      In-Progress avatars (that I know of) using attachment point rigging:

    • Breeder's Choice warmblood

    • Prehistorica dragon

    • Orange Nova Fenra

    • Orange Nova Snaggletooth

    • Orange Nova Shark

    • Funshine Canine

      Avatars like these should continue to be created, updated, and have third-party addons made for them

      Enhancement to attach point rigging

      Because space is used as the bone name separator in dae files, only bones that have no space in their name can be rigged to. This includes all normal bones, volume bones, and a subset of the attach point bones. However, a simple patch by Magus Freston allows underscore to be substituted with space when converting a mesh from dae to internal mesh format. This allows all attach points to be rigged to. This patch was installed in firestorm versions 4.3.0 - 4.6.7. The Avastar addon for blender exports .dae files that are compatable with this patch.

      This patch does not interfere with bone name validation. We also request that this simple viewer-side patch be applied to facilitate the full use of attach point bone rigging until a better solution is developed.

Attachments

Original Jira Fields
Field Value
Issue BUG-10543
Summary Mesh validation should permit rigging to attach points
Type New Feature Request
Priority Unset
Status Been Triaged
Resolution Triaged
Reporter Tapple Gao (tapple.gao)
Assignee Oz Linden (oz.linden)
Created at 2015-10-24T05:18:51Z
Updated at 2017-05-08T22:45:23Z
{
  'Business Unit': ['Platform'],
  'Date of First Response': '2015-10-24T13:03:35.865-0500',
  'How would you like the feature to work?': 'The mesh uploader currently allows meshes to be uploaded that are rigged to nonstandard bones, most notably the attach points. There is discussion about blocking meshes using this misfeature from being uploaded. This should not be done. ',
  'ReOpened Count': 0.0,
  'Severity': 'Unset',
  'Target Viewer Version': 'viewer-development',
  'Why is this feature important to you? How would it benefit the community?': 'There are some types of avatars for which 4 limbs, a spine, and a head, is simply not enough. It is currently possible to make these types of avatars in secondlife by rigging a mesh to non-standard bones, such as the attach points. ',
}
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Tapple Gao commented at 2015-10-24T05:56:13Z, updated at 2015-10-24T22:24:53Z

LL should continue their long and noble tradition of promoting clever workarounds into supported features:

  • Multiple objects per attach point originated as a feature that only worked on Emerald viewer
  • Fitted mesh originated as an experiment named Liquid mesh
  • Deformation animations due to BVH parsing bugs promoted to full feature with anim upload support [#VWR-2242]
  • Invisiprims promoted from bug, to supported special case, to better supported alpha masks
  • Avatar physics upgraded from Emerald viewer-only feature to wearable physics for system avatars to physics in custom meshes
  • Prim torture moved from the realm of scripting to supported fields in the edit window

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Teager commented at 2015-10-24T18:03:36Z, updated at 2015-10-28T19:39:00Z

This Jira is a followup of my Jira posted to Firestorm yesterday, http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-17144

I reported that after the closing of Firestorm 4.6.7 the many creators who have over the past year been releasing new, amazing content to SL using attachment rigged mesh were no longer able to do so. The result of this Jira being posted and subsequently brought up in the TPV meeting yesterday was that it was brushed aside as "not supported" and therefore should no longer be allowed.

As Tapple pointed out above, there are many instances in which a "hack" adopted and beloved by users has been turned into a fully supported feature of Second Life. This should be one of those instances. There is so much that can be done with attachment point rigging, allowing creators to finally break free of the very limiting mold that is the SL armature.

If the argument for disabling the upload of attachment-rigged mesh is that it is not supported in all viewers, make it supported in all viewers. Until such a day that second life can support the upload of fully custom skeletons, this is not a feature that should be stomped out, but one that should be embraced. There is so much yet to be done with attachment rigging which can only mean good things for Second Life.

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Tornleaf commented at 2015-10-24T19:12:11Z

Representing Red Remora here, I cannot emphasize how much of a selling point my rigged tails are for my fox. For nonhuman characters we use all the bones we can get, but it's clear we are working against the grain here. I whole-heartily agree with Tapple and Teager's comments - rigged attachment meshes should be fully supported, especially seeing as the non-human and furry market is so large on Second Life.

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Rumegusc Altamura commented at 2015-10-24T19:13:24Z, updated at 2015-10-24T19:25:49Z

What you can do with a face mesh with attachment point weight?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADlRNE8JW1E time 0.30

Avatar mesh can speack , avatar mesh have expression with only animation.anim and a simple script to activate animation.

The alternative to this system of facial animation is:

-make a series of progressively visible mesh overlapping and WEAR, handled through a complex and complicated script.

Now, what can honestly give more hassle:

  1. animation.anim on a single mesh light 1 prim of LI or
  2. a complex script that emulates different animations making visible progressively more and more faces of linkset that you need wear ALWAYS?

Never, no client told me to have problems viewer, never display problems of my mesh, if not ... with graphics to low and then we are talking about normal deformation mesh(body, that not have weight on attachment point, in graphics in low my costumers see bad in the same mode) .... like any other mesh or avatar mesh.

So i ask, please,specifically to Linden Labs recovery, as soon as, the upload mesh with attachment point weight,
becouse this is:

the best solution for this need.

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Whirly Fizzle commented at 2015-10-24T19:53:30Z

Roarbeast Wyvern in action: http://roarbeastsl.tumblr.com/page/2
Including mouth and tail animations, made possible by attach point rigging.
https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/RB-Adult-Wyvern-Avatar-v14/6697089

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Teager commented at 2015-10-24T20:36:15Z, updated at 2015-10-24T21:14:16Z

In response to Whirly's comment on the Firestorm Jira, I'd like to make it clear that most viewers can currently upload mesh weighted to attachment points which do not have spaces in their name. The functionality we've lost is the ability to rig mesh to attachment points with spaces in their names. These additional bones bring the count of bones available for facerigs from 4 (or 5 with volume SKULL) to 8 (or 9 with volume SKULL), greatly improving the range of facial motion. Similarly, it lends the ability to rig additional limbs which are parented to the avatar's arms and legs and therefore are already inherently scalable in a parented chain*. Without the ability to rig to attachment points containing spaces, we can manage tails which are parented to mPelvis (Pelvis, Stomach, BUTT) but lose the functionality to create limbs which should begin further up the avatar's torso, such as wings.

[*Subnote on the parented chain point: mesh up until now could NOT be rigged to the left lower leg attachment point. For some reason this attachment point would not register as rigged data when all others would. It's possible that the existing script to replace spaces with underscores skipped this bone by accident. If the Lab does choose to implement attachment point rigging, please be sure to include this bone, because substituting the L_LOWER_LEG volume breaks the smooth scalability of the left leg chain.]

Additionally, in the clip from the TPV meeting, it is mentioned that a check should be implemented to prevent these sorts of meshes from being uploaded. It is not made clear whether this is referring to meshes rigged to attachment points containing spaces in their names or if this is referring to meshes weighted to any attachment point. We implore you to not further limit functionality by restricting uploads from any attachment point.

So, to clarify, the objectives of this Jira are:

  1. To prevent Linden Lab from further limiting creators by adding an additional block against mesh weighted to attachment points WITHOUT spaces in their names, in addition to the current block against attachment point WITH spaces in their names

  2. To lift the block against mesh rigged to attachment points with spaces in their names

  3. To ask that the ability to rig to attachment points be adopted as a fully supported, universal feature inherent to all viewers

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Whirly Fizzle commented at 2015-10-24T20:47:54Z

I believe, unfortunately, going by what was said at the TPV meeting, that the serverside block will prevent upload of any mesh weighted to any attachment point.

Oz: "You're not supposed to be weighting mesh to attachment points anyway" - https://youtu.be/rrmMwUzpcrY?t=7m59s
Vir: "I'm pretty sure that was never supported on purpose"

I'd just like to make it really clear that the LL viewer itself allows rigging to attachment points that do not have a space in the name already, eg the Pelvis & Mouth attach points.

Can a Linden please clarify if the upcoming serverside check will also break rigging to attachment points without a space in the name on the LL viewer?

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sakura.rajal commented at 2015-10-24T22:49:25Z, updated at 2015-10-24T22:50:32Z

N/A

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xenhat.liamano commented at 2015-10-25T11:05:17Z

I had a really big rant, and I decided to move it elsewhere. I support this jira, especially the lifting of existing, arbitrary limitations on rigged mesh.

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bentleysundance commented at 2015-10-25T15:39:41Z, updated at 2015-10-25T15:45:10Z

DO NOT FIX.

This is not the proper way to handle this. leave this alone, this bug is more of an accidental feature used by alot of people.

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f2004w commented at 2015-10-25T16:04:28Z, updated at 2015-10-25T17:20:44Z

If it not broken, don't fix it. If you going to "fix" it.... make it better not worse by limiting our creativity. If our avatars becomes useless, I would start asking for refunds, not to the creators because they didn't broke it.

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ukli commented at 2015-10-25T17:28:24Z

If this 'fix' goes through and renders my best avatars into piles of trash, I will leave SL and take my wallet with me.
Good going on bringing up an issue that didn't need fixing and trying to 'fix' it, LL.

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Teager commented at 2015-10-25T17:51:12Z, updated at 2015-10-25T20:13:08Z

As far as I'm aware - though this may need Linden confirmation - the planned validation would not prevent already uploaded meshes from working. So existing avatars should continue to function as they already do.

It WILL...

  • prevent the creators of those avatars from putting out any updates that require the re-upload of the avatar mesh.

  • prevent mod and accessory creators from uploading new mesh mods and addons for these avatars. In my experience, the inability to create new, fresh content for an avatar marks the death of that avatar.

  • prevent us and other creators from continuing to make mesh of the same quality and complexity as these meshes already being sold.

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Shakeno Tomsen commented at 2015-10-25T18:07:26Z

I know about the rigging to attachment points, but, what is "mesh validation" exactly and what does it imply? (I'm just not familiar with the term, maybe I know its meaning but know it with a different name)

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Tapple Gao commented at 2015-10-25T18:25:38Z

it's currently unknown what exactly "mesh validation" means. It's a change that might or might not be implemented in the future. It is mentioned near the linked part of the meeting video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrmMwUzpcrY). Presumably, it means that meshes or animations that are "invalid", will not be permitted to be uploaded. The point of this bug report is to make the case that meshes rigged to attach points, and animations on attach points should not be considered "invalid" and blocked until a suitable replacement is available

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Teager commented at 2015-10-25T18:26:51Z, updated at 2015-10-25T18:27:08Z

As I understand it, mesh validation basically means that when someone tries to upload a mesh, SL will check which bones that mesh is weighted to. In this case, there is talk of making the validation only pass bones which are mbones (the actual bones that make up your avatar) and volume bones (the bones used in fitted mesh). If the mesh contains vertices that are rigged to bones other than the mbones or the volumes, it may upload with those verts not weighted to anything, or it may not upload at all.

What this means, functionally, is that all of these face rigs, animated tails, animated wings, and extra limbs that we've been seeing in new avatars over the last year will all stop being possible.

What we want instead is mesh validation that makes sure the weighted bones do indeed exist, but passes attachment bones.

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Shakeno Tomsen commented at 2015-10-25T18:42:35Z

Is there any actually important piece of information that was mentioned in the video which wasn't phrased in the comments or description? (Sorry, I suffer CAPD, I can't understand what is being said on voice, so I'm pretty lost. That's the reason I was asking these questions.)

I'd also like to know, why is it necessary? Wasn't the client-side verification enough? I never had the issue of vertices weighted nowhere in an upload.
I've been trying to google around as well, and found in Nathales blog about it requiring new viewers because the mesh code and format will be different. Why is that so? Does it means any old viewer will be unable to display meshes? (I am saying this because I know a lot of people have old computers which can only run on old viewers like Singularity)

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Tylamis Galanter commented at 2015-10-25T19:49:40Z

do not fix please D:

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Oken Hax commented at 2015-10-25T20:36:09Z

If you could stop making regressions on SL, it would be nice. If anything we need more bones to rig, not less.

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flower.leleu commented at 2015-10-25T20:42:12Z

Rigging on the attachment bones is an absolutely essential part of creating (among other things) facial animations for the new generation of wearable avatars.
WIP of the new Raawr Avatars Cabbit http://prntscr.com/8v9qjz

It makes no sense to remove this feature without adding something else in its place as a realistic alternative. Such an alternative could be for instance, to update the rig and add a set of bones specifically there to animate things like facial expressions, wings, tails etc.

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Tersa Beverly commented at 2015-10-25T20:54:55Z

There is nothing wrong with leaving this as a feature. as many have said things like this have been integrated in the past. so as with them, so with this. it IMPROVES the user experience in sl, it is not a detriment.

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Klomonx commented at 2015-10-25T21:01:19Z

Removing this feature will greatly limit the creativity amongst avatars, and is not something you want to do in a community where you want to promote creativity, imagination, and other user-created assets.

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Drake Bacon commented at 2015-10-25T21:10:08Z

Can't SL actually allow an upload of a skeleton, the animations for that skeleton, and mesh that fleshes out that skeleton? Granted, you'll want to limit the amount of bones in the skeleton, but then the standard SL body doesn't have much to begin with.

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MurdockTheYounger commented at 2015-10-25T21:14:32Z

While I do not profess to have a deep understanding of knowledge surrounding rigging (although I would love to learn), I have enough understanding to know that attach point rigging is VERY important to the creative community of Second Life, and is deeply needed. While I realize that perhaps Linden Labs might have analyzed some issues with it, unless those issues are entirely "game breaking", or pose some kind of immediate back-door security threat (the latter is unlikely in my opinion), then I too propose that attach point rigging remain allowed, while Linden Labs works in the background - not on the actual live build - for a more optimal solution that can make everyone happy.

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Teager commented at 2015-10-25T21:23:15Z

Drake - No, Second Life does not allow the upload of a custom skeleton. We have a very limited set of bones to work with; attachment point rigging is the closest thing we can currently get to creating custom skeleton shapes.

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Drake Bacon commented at 2015-10-25T21:47:23Z

Teager - I know. I think having an uploadable skeleton and animation set would be the next best feature that will properly solve this main issue.

Why? Well, centaurs, cat'taurs (Chakats), etc (in short, taurs) have a different front leg anatomy than humans have with their regular legs. Even furries that use digigrade legs (aka standing on the hind legs) have issues in which the lower leg must be in a fixed pose. Werewolves can't truly sit on their haunches!

The real problem is that we're adapting everything to a main humanoid skeleton base, which we're now hitting the limitations of. We can work around things if we break things hard (such as using LSL/Mono to animate the rear legs and tail), but it also means extra load on the SL servers and extra bandwidth usage.

So if you're using a mesh to get "skin deep" and need to add stuff to a skeleton that's broken for what you're doing, why not just solve the real problem? We can already upload animations to the regular skeletons. Why not allow folks to upload a skeleton, a mesh that covers the skeleton, and set of animations that take over for the basic movements, similar to that of an Animation Overrider? It solves a ton of problems with using the basic humanoid skeleton, and folks inside and outside SL are already building skeletons for other projects. SL just needs to implement it.

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amkue commented at 2015-10-25T21:49:33Z

I'm currently working on a canine head that uses attachment point rigging as well. I'm hoping this gets resolved in a manner that won't destroy countless hours of users' hard work: https://gyazo.com/6f2d630c47deda52e6b636c8efda3076

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Rocketroo commented at 2015-10-25T23:21:41Z

Don't see any reason why this shouldn't be done. Gives a lot more flexibility for creators without any issues other than 'it was not intended' which is a very poor reason in any case.

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Ellowyn Diabolito commented at 2015-10-25T23:48:56Z

There is many examples of how this works and the many uses it has. There appears to be no valid reason why this should be disabled and disabling it would just be sad and stop so many creative projects from being done and updated.

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Wanders Nowhere commented at 2015-10-26T01:13:14Z

Speaking as a mesh creator working with attachment bones, the idea of blocking them is not only terrible news but is also counterproductive. Is the rigging of attachment bones...a bad thing? Unsupported or no? Deformers, alpha, avatar physics, multiple attachments, fitted mesh, all of these things started as hacks and workarounds that are now fully supported features. The only logical reason I can see for LL to limit the use of attachment bones is if they're (Finally!) going to support custom bones / custom rigs. This is a necessary next step, we all know it, to creating some truly amazing avatars and breaking the restraints.

C'mon, I want flexible tails for my dinosaurs and simplified wing rigging for my dragon ;P and that would be just the beginning. All manner of colourful creatures could be possible!

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Momokii commented at 2015-10-26T01:44:37Z

I'm shocked that LL is doing this but then again, they always end up doing dumb things.. We need to stand together and put a stop to this rotten bologna! On a side note, I want to say after looking through the gifs and owning some of avatars from the creators, you're all amazing at what you do. Not sure if many people tell you guys but you make everyone's SL a dream. Thank you all so very much and I look forward to seeing this not happen so we can all romp around with each other in these amazing creations of art.

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Nargus Asturias commented at 2015-10-26T02:03:14Z, updated at 2015-10-26T02:05:35Z

I haven't been very active much lately. But Nargus Lab will no longer release any new dinosaur avatar without the ability to animate BOTH tail and jaw at the same time. And that mean the ability to animate attachment points. We believe in perfection, or none at all. And thus, unless a suitable replacement is in place when it is needed, should the ability to animate them be removed, we will also consider pulling our sim out of SL as well.

I know most quad avatars also use these kind of technique, one way or another.

If you want to put such limitation upon the developers in this day and age, allows us the full ability to upload the whole skeleton.

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Carmen Quartz commented at 2015-10-26T03:52:18Z

We so need this feature, I hope they don't remove it, It has helped create such amazing work already.

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Kythyria commented at 2015-10-26T04:01:55Z, updated at 2015-10-26T04:03:35Z

First: I support this proposal. Probably doesn't carry as much weight as Nargus or Oken since they have a track record of creating stuff—and good stuff at that—and I don't, but still. The additional validation would not remove breakage—the "invalid" meshes and animations work perfectly as is—and would remove capabilities.

Second: If the long-term proposal is custom skeletons, make it so that skeletons are composable. For instance, embed a skeleton in an object, but wearing it causes its root bone to become a child of the bone it's worn on. Animations can address any bone in the resulting composite. This way you can, for instance, wear wings and a naga tail at the same time. If it weren't for morph targets being even further out, the default avatar could then become a (possibly magic) object.

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atheron.alter commented at 2015-10-26T06:09:53Z, updated at 2015-10-26T06:13:24Z

If this is patched out it would be yet another nail in the coffin for creativity for secondlife. Creators are highly limited due to the number of limbs they are given by default. I've heard those that know next to nothing about rigging claim that the second life avatar already has "too many joints", but look at profession armatures, you will find splines and handles that influence multiple joints.

The second life modeler has to work with bare minimums, this "bug" should be a "feature" as it helps even the odds.

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MaxMortimer commented at 2015-10-26T06:11:11Z

dont change it, i dont notice any bugs and it'll make the game less fun

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Sierra Janus commented at 2015-10-26T13:13:06Z, updated at 2015-10-26T13:15:31Z

This may fall outside the scope of this ticket but I think it needs to be added to the rest of the feedback.

Once upon a time I use to participate in the AWG, client and bot development etc. but I eventually gave up after years of stunted innovation whilst the rest of the industry moved on ahead. I'm now just another a consumer on this platform who has lost the drive to add to its richness, frustrated with its technological barriers. Changes like this are not only a regression in functionality but damage the platform by frustrating creators to the point of giving up on it. Without creators, this platform spirals into irrelevancy and monotony.

Don't turn more creators into people like me. Please do impact assessments and engage with the community on feature regressions.

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Barlowe Dezno commented at 2015-10-26T16:14:43Z

I agree with don't change it.

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IceWolf Karlfeldt commented at 2015-10-26T16:16:01Z

As one of the content creators who's product is on the list of effected avatars (The Garou) I can say that this change will drastically screw over a lot of our hard work, and just create more hurdles that'll wind up harming our business. I can only imagine what that's going to do for people in the future as well. It's not cool, LL. Don't screw us and our clients over like this.

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Avaraia Aljon commented at 2015-10-26T17:15:21Z

Stifleing creativity of avatar and mod makers will mean the death of second life, LL. you'll never make another dime off it.

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Serp Dharma commented at 2015-10-26T17:27:22Z

I believe the install location for FIRE-7937 has changed looking at the recent SL source. The install location of the patch appears to have changed to llModelLoader.cpp in LLModelLoader() though I have not tested it to see.

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DaveB1 Ballyhoo commented at 2015-10-26T18:06:58Z

How typical OF LL..what they cant mess around with for themselves they totaly screw up. Ive been in SL for a Long time a lot of People know my gold....I'm not a creator but I agree with the people Here THEY know best. Lok thuum.

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Teager commented at 2015-10-26T18:57:22Z, updated at 2015-10-26T19:02:12Z

I've been wanting to animate a human face for a while now, so I went ahead and did that. Here's my example of how expressive avatars can be with a bit of fancy attachment rigging:
http://livestre.am/5e6Y2

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CaUnNuTs commented at 2015-10-26T21:27:56Z

Do not 'fix' this

This is just further limiting on user creativity, and breaking the avatars players use on a daily basis. This renders countless hours of work useless.

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tesnus commented at 2015-10-26T22:17:06Z

Yes LL please dont fix this.

This isnt even a bug, its an unintended feature that really should be made official.

By patching this you are going to lose alot of content creators and hence alot of income, all over what, a desire to validate where mesh is attached. Honestly who cares where mesh is attached, if it creates something where we can use it to further creativitiy, is it really a bug.

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Grit5 commented at 2015-10-27T05:08:07Z

this bug should be kept in! it makes so many cool things possible, and it makes the avatars that use it more lively looking!
maybe even mark it as an official thing so it doesnt look like the coders hecked up lmao
SL shouldn't cater to JUST humanoid-shaped avatars
i have to say i like these avs alot more than the ones that dont use the bugs, especially the dragons
who DOESNT love to have a nicely animated av on when they're running, swimming or flying around?

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Rumegusc Altamura commented at 2015-10-27T11:34:43Z

@oz LInden
Hello I sell avatars with facial expressions created with weights on attachment point. I sell these avatars from August from 16 August 2014. Never, no client told me to have problems viewer, never display problems of my mesh, if not ... with graphics to low and then we are talking about normal deformation mesh .... like any other mesh or avatar mesh. I have not encountered any delay, or lag problem with my facial animation system. To create facial animation, other brands, it realized through a series of progressive mesh operated by script. These movements have to have fluidity need for so many progressive mesh.
Now you should be honest with me and tell me what creates greater lag:

  1. animation.anim on a single mesh or light
  2. a complex script that emulates different animations making visible progressively to 100 faces and then wear a linkset composed of 100 different faces?
    I and others like me have solved a need so simple WITHOUT CREATING UNNECESSARY LAG scripted excessive.
    You answer me: is a “violation of the system”: it is true, but because it works very well compared to the alternatives,
    THE SOLUTION IS:
    "CHANGE THE SYSTEM" and not "take away the ability to import meshes with weights on attachment point"
    Linden Labs has changed several times, "the system".
    It changed the system to enter fitted mesh, combining volume and movement and they are a failure, because avatars and clothing, or spread out well and act badly, or is moving well and spread evil.
    The Linden Labs has entered the normal map and specular map with results lacking.
    This system of weights instead of the attachment point is, yes no "in the system", but the only thing, than mentioned, really simple, useful and above EFFECTIVE.
    For face animation need 8 bones, minimum.

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Siwo commented at 2015-10-27T15:24:22Z

This is actually pretty funny... mere two weeks ago, I got into discussion how could I animate "anthro butterfly" (2 legs, 4 arms, 2 wings) in any other way than with 100s of texture faces and laggy scripts. And so I was told that rigging to "useless" bones is pretty neat. Quick look at how many bones SL skeleton actually supports... OMG that's awesome!! ...and now, just as I became aware of this feature, I find out it is being treated as a bug and forbidden :|

I just can't help myself to get over thoughts that this is another attempt to murder SL ahead of Sansar so then all features-starved residents will be more eager to migrate to new platform :/

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NakamuraRain commented at 2015-10-27T15:35:50Z

Do Not Fix

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Mysterics commented at 2015-10-27T17:22:42Z

Please don't "fix", attachment point rigging is very important to creativity in SecondLife.

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Troy Linden commented at 2015-10-27T17:55:30Z

We realize that there will be a lot of residents/assets affected by this and currently looking into it. Sorry for the inconvenience and worries it caused. Please stay tuned.

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Pyro Outlander commented at 2015-10-27T19:10:17Z

okay they shouldn't mess with this the kemono av, bfd they have nesh this would ruin if not most of my avs so LL you mess with this PERIO you could face repercussions that could screw yer jobs royally and probably make it o where yer flow of money would be disrupted and most of yer clientel destroyed... its a awesome feature destroying it could make it yer domm

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Ravenmoon Darkwatch commented at 2015-10-28T00:12:39Z

Please leave this as a viable option to the creators so we can continue to enjoy such wonderful progects as have been made and that are currently planned by many creators.

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skidz Tweak commented at 2015-10-28T08:15:27Z

Please do leave this in.. I used this on head I sell as well.. Allows for the eyes lids to blink, mouth to open, tongue, and cheeks..

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Wilder Shieldmaiden commented at 2015-10-28T18:52:50Z, updated at 2015-10-28T18:53:28Z

@troy Linden
You and all of LL would do well to consider this a moment of "Do or Die".
If you make the wrong decision here, the decision to break the tradition of assimilating fan solutions, and instead decide to go against the content creators and your user base, your business - mark my words - will die.
Without these innovative solutions SL would have become stale and boring a long time ago, and a virtual world that cannot grow through enabling user creativity never lives long. At the moment, the lifeline that keeps SL alive is the ability to bring avatars to life (figuratively speaking) through attachment point rigging.

And if the concern we see from some people that this is an attempt to strangle SL to death to prepare for a new platform, is true- then you are doing it wrong.
To take an example from gaming, The reason Starcraft 2 was so enormously popular, and to a degree still is. Is because Starcraft 1 was left alone, and so the players that enjoyed it felt greatly appreciative of Blizzard and confident in their ability. And so willingly migrate to the new and improved Starcraft 2.
Now, if you really intend to kill off SL, and i hope you do not, through a series of (pardon the term) gamebreaking "fixes" this will only create resentment from your users and a lack of willingness to even try the next platform, and that will only harm your business sustainability.

So please, for us, and for your business, be smart. Allow creativity and leave this feature alone so SL and LL can grow on the backs of inventive content creation.

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xenhat.liamano commented at 2015-10-28T18:56:03Z

I would like to remind all the creators that this is a Bug Tracker, not a Rant Box or a Blog. Please reduce your personal input to the bare facts and leave out emotional responses. Most developers have no desire to read through rants to get the information they need.

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YaoChi Zhangsun commented at 2015-10-29T03:10:47Z

Someone has called this a bug.

They are quite wrong.

Seeing the wonderful things being done with it.

Even the naive can see that it is in actual fact, an amazing empowering FEATURE.

Keep it, Support it, Improve it !

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mustanglover101 commented at 2015-10-29T18:31:28Z

please keep all the horse avatars and keep it and support the game and also improve the graphics a bit.

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Oz Linden commented at 2015-10-29T19:52:20Z, updated at 2015-10-29T19:54:02Z

Thanks for the many excellent examples and explanations; we are looking into the implications of all this and will provide an official update as soon as we can. We certainly appreciate that people want some of these additional capabilities.

We caution everyone that any time any Second Life feature (in this case, attachment points) is used in ways that were never intended, there is some risk that it will be broken by future changes. Any unintended and unsupported functionality (even if it works) is not something we can ever promise to remain compatible with indefinitely (see https://xkcd.com/1172/). That said, we have no plans to intentionally modify the viewer in ways that would break the existing content people have posted as examples here.

Please be patient while we study the matter. In the meantime, we will not be making any changes to the mesh or animation upload rules until we've arrived at an appropriate resolution and shared it with you.

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Techwolf Lupindo commented at 2015-11-07T22:55:54Z

This needs to be re-opened so folks can vote on it. When you check into voting on this issue, it will say can't vote due to this issue has been closed/resolved.

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