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Issue Details (XML | Word | Printable)

Key: VWR-7178
Type: Bug Bug
Status: Resolved Resolved
Resolution: Fixed
Priority: Major Major
Assignee: WorkingOnIt Linden
Reporter: Neferon Nevadan
Votes: 3
Watchers: 3
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1. Second Life Viewer - VWR

'Upload a snapshot' can no longer take full screen snapshot ... limited to square images

Created: 11/May/08 04:09 PM   Updated: 24/Jul/08 02:17 PM
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Component/s: None
Affects Version/s: 1.20 Release Candidate
Fix Version/s: 1.20

File Attachments: None
Image Attachments:

1. 1_20_10dotheywork_007.jpg
(657 kB)
Environment: Windows XP, Dell Dimension 8300, ATI x1050
Issue Links:
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Last Triaged: 25/Jun/08 09:15 AM
Linden Lab Issue ID: DEV-17172


 Description  « Hide
The latest versions are not allowing full screen snapshots .. and are pushing instead to square images. This is ill considered as all current photo tools including the photo in our profiles expect wide images. My workaround has been to stop spending lindens on pictures til this matter is resolved.

 All   Comments   Change History      Sort Order: Ascending order - Click to sort in descending order
bao linden added a comment - 12/May/08 10:16 AM
This is not a bug. You can take arbitrary image if you want to save the snapshot to disk or postcard. But there is size restriction, that is, power of two, for uploading a snapshot.

Neferon Nevadan added a comment - 13/May/08 10:46 AM
Bug was all i could call it .. it's really a change to photos that doesn't fit with the existing profile pictures size or the various photo viewers currently in existence. Is there a way to put such changes up to a vote? I can't imagine people want this.

Gellan Glenelg made changes - 06/Jun/08 01:48 PM
Field Original Value New Value
Link This issue is duplicated by VWR-7637 [ VWR-7637 ]
Gellan Glenelg made changes - 11/Jun/08 12:15 PM
Link This issue Relates to VWR-7709 [ VWR-7709 ]
Cummere Mayo added a comment - 11/Jun/08 03:54 PM
um under custom if you set it to the screen res or full screen its SUPPOSED to take a full screen not a square bao... and its annoying change...

Azadine Umarov added a comment - 12/Jun/08 01:07 PM
With all due respect to Bao Linden, I understand that snapshot uploads are always uploaded to an image based on powers of two. What has changed is that there no longer seems to be the option there was a few iterations back to squeeze aspect ratio into that square peg. So the only work around for taking profile pics is to take a snapshot to disc with the proper aspect ratio, and upload that image back to the SL asset servers where it will be crammed back into the required square (or 512 x 1024, etc) peg hole.

Granted, in many cases this is preferable, as direct uploads from the snaps menu are limited to a max size of 512^2. But it's a bit of an extra hassle for anyone who is not that picky about the appearance of a profile pic or other pics that can be assigned to parcels or other features within SL. Attaching a snapshot that illustrates the forced aspect ratio. Funtionality is the same under all settings, leaving one to wonder why the settings are there at all, unless one remembers a time when they actually worked.

The custom setting DO continue to work under the "Save to disc" options.


Azadine Umarov added a comment - 12/Jun/08 01:14 PM
Modified snapshot saved to disc using Ctrl-` but with the snapshot menu poised to take a snapshot for upload, set to "Current Window". The "Custom" setting also is not changeable to anything but a 1:1 aspect ratio. In the past one could define the ratio as one wished, including portrait orientations in more useful aspect ratios like 4:5 or 16:9. This has been messed up for quite some time now, at least in RCs. Will look at the current release, but I think this is also broken there. Will confirm this with attachments if I have time.

Azadine Umarov made changes - 12/Jun/08 01:14 PM
Attachment 1_20_10dotheywork_007.jpg [ 17196 ]
Ramzi Linden added a comment - 17/Jun/08 04:59 PM
I am modifying the summary to make it slightly clearer what is being reported.
(was: Can no longer take full screen snapshot ... limited to square images)

Ramzi Linden made changes - 17/Jun/08 04:59 PM
Summary Can no longer take full screen snapshot ... limited to square images 'Upload a snapshot' can no longer take full screen snapshot ... limited to square images
Ramzi Linden made changes - 17/Jun/08 05:01 PM
Link This issue is duplicated by VWR-7066 [ VWR-7066 ]
Torley Linden added a comment - 25/Jun/08 03:29 PM
The simple misunderstanding here revolves around intended functionality:

Long story short, Second Life textures are powers-of-2 which isn't intuitive if you're new to computer graphics concepts. Historically, we got confusion/complaints asking, "I just uploaded a snapshot and it's not the same resolution as my screen actually is... why?" so then the response (from Lindens or experienced Residents) talks about common texture resolutions, like 512x512.

Of course, almost all computer monitors are rectangular, and constraining that to 512x512 (1:1) also messes up the aspect ratio. So instead of further complicating that, this change made it so "When you take a picture, you get what you see."

BUT... to complicate matters further, profile picture and other slots where you can drop an image have bizarre aspect ratios. Notice how in your profile, your 1st Life pic is square but... your 2nd Life pic isn't!

» http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Limits#Textures

Cleaning this up – making it more consistent going forward – would likely involve breaking the appearance of older pictures, but as a trade-off, the path forward would be much easier.

AND FURTHERMORE... there are a number of other subtleties (referenced in this and other issues) which make the matter even trickier. That's why we're currently documenting the snapshot tools and all their functionality so we can hopefully improve usability.

Being a prolific photographer, I wish for options that are both powerful and elegant in the future.


Neferon Nevadan added a comment - 26/Jun/08 06:57 AM
The impact of the change on residence is that current product vendors, picture frames, and even the profile window, mostly assume the image will be stretched back to a normal looking aspect ratio even if the image was stored as a 512x512 square. So basically the "work around" users have gotten use to and built around won't be necessary – but then those items built to accommodate will be less useful moving forward. The change makes sense – but the impact needs consideration. Perhaps the default can be as is being introduced – while the old option available for those who need it or prefer it. Profile pictures could have a check box where users pick how it should display.

Meanwhile, cleaning things up and having consistency in aspect ratios places like the profile window help.


Alexa Linden made changes - 26/Jun/08 09:15 AM
Assignee WorkingOnIt Linden [ WorkingOnIt Linden ]
Alexa Linden made changes - 26/Jun/08 09:15 AM
Last Triaged 25/Jun/08 09:15 AM
lindenrobot made changes - 26/Jun/08 09:16 AM
Linden Lab Issue ID DEV-17172
McCabe Maxsted added a comment - 26/Jun/08 09:57 AM
Torley, I'd say the confusion is more a difference between technical intent and user intent. From a technical perspective, you want to ensure snapshots are always in powers of 2. From a user perspective you want to upload a snapshot of your actual screen (which you can't now in the RCs).

My question is, how does limiting snapshot functionality benefit users? Was uploading full screen snapshots inworld taking up too many resources?

Because if there isn't a good answer to that, this is a feature loss. It also creates an inconsistency in that the "Current Window" size selection does not actually let you select the current window size.


Azadine Umarov added a comment - 26/Jun/08 10:24 AM
Thanks, Torley, for that clarification of where the devs are coming from on this change. Since it's a change only in how the aspect ratio is locked when uploading pics directly in world, I can live with this change. I can't see how it would break existing content to allow user selection of other aspect ratios, considering that I have a good number of direct UL pics from my early weeks or months here, that WERE squished for later stretching, and of course any pics that I choose to turn around and import also tend to have non-cubic aspect ratios.

But I DO appreciate the change here as an effort to give newer users more of a WYSIWYG experience out of the box. I would probably have preferred this set up if I were coming into SL as a new user today.

Though I would probably waste some Lindens mistakenly thinking that the "Current window" and "Custom" options that still show up in the "What size image do you need?" pull-down for "Upload a snapshot" pics actually did something. Those two options should probably either disappear in that setting or be greyed out and become unselectable, as has already been done with the "constrain selections" and "image quality" options that haze out in 10.20.11 now. It's not TOO misleading, assuming that users actually notice the available pixel selections under Width and Height.

Though I must comment that it was not until I started writing this that I realized the upload pic option would allow me to custom define an upload frame of 64W x 512H, for instance. Like I said, I stopped paying for direct upload snapshots months ago, so I rarely have reason to look at how the options are changing there.

Given that 1:1, 2:1, 4:1 (and 8:1) aspect ratios CAN be created in uploaded snapshot (none of which ratios I would ever use illustratively without cropping, nor would I ever recommend anyone else to use those ratios except when creating in world textures, rather than portraits and product shots) I do wonder whether you're not trading one source of confusion for another, perhaps? Granted, most new users (probably) do not have formal training in composition or other aspects of graphic arts, so this does seem like a reasonable way to simplify matters for those who might be challenged by the need to deal with converting aspect ratios and such when trying to make in world content for the first time.

But, given that my own workflow (and I tend to assume that of most competent content creators) dictates saving most pics to disk for external manipulation, clean-up or other processing... this IS probably the best compromise to serve a resident population with vastly different backgrounds, talents and competencies.

It would be nice to be able to save (offline) directly to other formats besides BMP and JPEG2K, as, for instance it adds a further conversion step whenever one wants to upload a readable example pic here on the JIRA and elsewhere. But that feature request is covered elsewhere on the JIRA.

Thanks again for trying to clarify the necessary compromises!


McCabe Maxsted added a comment - 01/Jul/08 04:22 PM
It would be nice if we had WYSIWYG. Instead, what we currently have is What You See Is What You Get Minus Hacked Off Sides.

Ramzi Linden added a comment - 01/Jul/08 05:26 PM
Thanks for all the great comments and feedback. You have raised good points about a use case for uploading a snapshot of your actual screen, especially since some pictures frames (like your profile) are not square.

We are investigating a reversion of this restriction/change that appeared in the RC.


Ramzi Linden made changes - 24/Jul/08 02:17 PM
Fix Version/s 1.20 [ 10350 ]
Status Open [ 1 ] Resolved [ 5 ]
Resolution Fixed [ 1 ]
Sue Linden made changes - 13/Nov/08 11:24 AM
Workflow jira-2007-12-22a [ 55796 ] jira-2008-11-14 [ 70574 ]
Sue Linden made changes - 13/Nov/08 05:52 PM
Workflow jira-2008-11-14 [ 70574 ] jira-2008-11-14a [ 116020 ]
Sue Linden made changes - 13/Nov/08 06:20 PM
Workflow jira-2008-11-14 [ 116020 ] jira-2008-11-14a [ 126429 ]
Sue Linden made changes - 13/Nov/08 06:38 PM
Workflow jira-2008-11-14 [ 126429 ] jira-2008-11-14a [ 133083 ]
Sue Linden made changes - 13/Nov/08 07:01 PM
Workflow jira-2008-11-14 [ 133083 ] jira-2008-11-14a [ 142071 ]