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Issue Details (XML | Word | Printable)

Key: VWR-7017
Type: Bug Bug
Status: Resolved Resolved
Resolution: Needs More Info
Priority: Critical Critical
Assignee: Brad Linden
Reporter: Yrrek Gran
Votes: 0
Watchers: 2
Operations

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1. Second Life Viewer - VWR

Enable VBO and/or Basic Shaders Decreases performance to zero fps on ATI x1550.

Created: 02/May/08 03:57 PM   Updated: 04/May/09 06:57 PM
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Component/s: Graphics
Affects Version/s: 1.20 Release Candidate
Fix Version/s: None

File Attachments: 1. Text File SecondLife.log (23 kB)
2. Text File SecondLife.log (83 kB)
3. Text File SecondLifeVBO.log (84 kB)

Image Attachments:

1. 1_19_1_4_001.JPG
(559 kB)

2. 1_20_5.JPG
(474 kB)

3. TaskManNoVBO.JPG
(153 kB)

4. TaskManVBO.JPG
(146 kB)
Environment:
Second Life 1.20.5 (86279) Apr 30 2008 00:22:51 (Second Life Release Candidate)

CPU: Intel Pentium 4 Northwood (2392 MHz)
Memory: 1528 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: VisionTek Radeon X1550 Series x86/SSE2
OpenGL Version: 2.0.6956 WinXP Release
LLMozLib Version: [LLMediaImplLLMozLib] - 2.01.14856 (Mozilla GRE version 1.8.1.13_0000000000)
Issue Links:
Relates

Linden Lab Issue ID: DEV-14839


 Description  « Hide
Viewer 1.20.5 drops frame rates to zero as soon as VBO and / or Basic Shaders are enabled. Performance is so bad, that I cannot even get a screen shot or system data to paste.

I have tried this on another system, (slower) which doesn't have windlight capabilities and it seems ok, but it has an integrated nvidia video.

The performance is totally degraded when both or either of these options are selected which is completely the reverse of previous viewers.

Utilizing these options in 1.20.4 gave an increase of about 50% in framerate. Also, 1.19.1.4 gives the same increase as expected.

When either option is enabled, FPS drop from 23fps to 1 or 0fps.
Currently using ATI 8.4 drivers



 All   Comments   Change History      Sort Order: Ascending order - Click to sort in descending order
Brad Linden added a comment - 06/May/08 02:37 PM
Decreasing priority as this does not appear to affect everyone. I have tested this build on our Radeon X1550 machine with catalyst 8.4 and the problem does not happen. Can you post additional info, Yyrek? Is there anything else unusual about your system config (PCI/AGP instead of PCI-E, etc)?

Useful info would include your log file in "c:\Documents and Settings\<username>\Application Data\SecondLife\SecondLife.log" immediately after the problem occurred, and a slurl for the content you were looking at when the problem occurred.


Yrrek Gran added a comment - 06/May/08 04:10 PM

I have included 2 screen shots of Task Manager with and without VBO/Shaders enabled
Also Secondlife.log without VBO/Shaders and SecondlifeVBO.log with VBO/Shaders enabled.

My x1550 is a PCI not PCI-e otherwise nothing abnormal with my system.

With VBO/Shaders enabled, the framerate = .01
VBO/Shaders disabled, framerate = 14

Standard viewer 1.19.14 same location = 37 fps.

Inworld location for this data:

You are at 283776.1, 260736.0, 13.5 in Kokyanwuti located at sim3234.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.20.223:13000)
Second Life Server 1.21.1.86182

This is an empty water sim, data obtained underwater, no agents present.

The client to totally unresponsive, not only to the server but to any buttons or controls.
Windows will flash a "Program not responding" message when you try to select. It takes
approximately 50 seconds for a mouseclick to respond, then 50 seconds more for the next.

I now, do not think this is a graphics card issue but something hogging the processor.


Brad Linden added a comment - 06/May/08 05:22 PM
It likely has to do with the graphics card driver not supporting a rendering feature we're using and falling back to software rendering. That's why it'll use more cpu.

I'll check it out on a PCI machine, that'll probably do the trick.


Yrrek Gran added a comment - 06/May/08 05:43 PM
Wow, that would be great! Fastest fix I have seen yet, evidently it was obvious in the logs. Yay, now on to the Triangle bug, lol!

/me crosses fingers


Brad Linden added a comment - 07/May/08 03:19 PM
Well, I was wrong, it didn't show up on the PCI machine. So I haven't isolated the bug yet.

I noticed that your OpenGL version doesn't match the one I got from the 8.4 drivers. (I got "OpenGL Version: 2.1.7415 Release")

Did you download your drivers from here?
http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_catalyst.aspx?p=xp/radeonx-xp


Yrrek Gran added a comment - 07/May/08 03:44 PM
Hi Brad, I think I did have the correct driver package prior to the Logfile I sent. Had a corrupt driver and reloaded and earlier driver, 8.3 I believe.

I will download and install the driver from the link and see if it makes any difference.


Yrrek Gran added a comment - 07/May/08 04:30 PM
Brad, I managed to install 8.4 driver again and now, I cannot login. Crash at the login screen before I am even able to connect.

Several observations tho. Prior to having a problem with my driver, sent the jira on Friday, and on Sunday, I started having problems and tried to update the driver.

I kept getting installations errors, foremost, "RegPermWriter.exe" has encountered a problem. This, I later discovered, is Permissions to write to the registry. From what I googled on it, it seems ATI writes data in a weird registry key. So to be able to install the driver, I had to change permissions on the root "HKLM" and all subkeys to full permissions, then the driver finally installed.

But, it only took about 2 minutes to install with an error, don't remember what it was.
The thing is, when I just installed the 8.4 driver again, it took a full 25 minutes to install, 10 times longer than I have ever experienced before.

I am wondering if, because of the permissions in the subkey may not allow proper installation of the driver to utilize the full package, that this can be causing a multitude of problems with the driver.

Any idea, in the meantime, I cannot run the RC anymore. The crash reporter will not send out the report either.


Yrrek Gran added a comment - 08/May/08 08:14 AM - edited
After removing and reinstalling several different drivers and getting totally different results, all bad, I am coming to the conclusion that this, and possible more ATI related problems, are because of corrupt or missing driver installations.

This would also explain why it is so difficult to reproduce on identical machines.

My current install will not allow me to run 1.20.6, crashes on startup, just before the html page loads.

Running 1,19.4 is now not working properly either. i.e. now Shaders and VBO give 0fps boost to performance whereas, prior I achieved at least a 50% increase in fps.

I am learning that totally purging ATI drivers is not quit as simple as thought and suspect remnants
of other installs remain, causing corruption.

I have found this link, quite informative:

http://www.rage3d.com/BOARD/showthread.php?t=33738545

with step by step instructions to completely purge ATI files.

(edit) I found another purge thread, more current and a bit different procedure:

http://www.driverheaven.net/windows-xp-2k-radeon-display-drivers/107447-uninstalling-installing-ati-drivers-properly.html

The first link is very informative and has a lot of troubleshooting info, worth the read.

This is going to take some time to perform and won't get a chance to try until this evening.

I attached a Logfile earlier, see if you notice anything strange. (no performance change with VBO/Shaders, 1.19.4)


Yrrek Gran added a comment - 09/May/08 01:25 PM
I do still suspect some driver corruption and in order to keep this jira from looking like a support forum,
I posted my results on VWR-3258. I am pretty sure Catalyst Control Center is causing numerous problems in some configurations.

Yrrek Gran added a comment - 10/May/08 06:42 AM
This problem seems to be related to VWR-5813 and appears to be getting worse.

Yrrek Gran added a comment - 24/May/08 11:20 AM
Posted in First Look Viewer Forum:

ATI problems have been resolved?
Maybe, I am not sure what is going on with 1.2.xxx clients, but this I have discovered:

Version 1.2.6(87323) (Mono grid viewer) works perfectly with ATI.
And I mean everything!

No Triangles no matter what you try to do- gone! [url]http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3258[/url]

FPS increase with shaders and VBO enabled! [url]http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-7017[/url]

Poor performance relative to release 1.19.(4)
[url]http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-7251[/url]

ATI driver incompatibility
[url]http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-7251[/url] ( I am using 7.10)

My system is running better on Mono than it has ever run with old ATI drivers and a PCI video card. This should be released as the standard client.

I hate having this post buried in this forum and it should be also posted in Residents Conversations to get as many people exposed to this as possible.

I want to make a jira report but need outside conformation to this.
PLEASE install the Mono viewer and give it a try.

I would hate to see this version get swept under the rug.
LL is now again raising the system requirements to try to eliminate these problems and it appears that they have already been fixed.

1.2.6(87323) is the best viewer of the series and my system is OLD!


Ellla McMahon added a comment - 27/Jun/08 05:27 PM
Information from VWR-7936 Erick Suavage reports similar issues with 1.19.1.4

Second Life 1.19.1 (4) Apr 2 2008 11:59:37 (Second Life Release)

CPU: Intel Pentium 4 Northwood (2992 MHz)
Memory: 1534 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: VisionTek Radeon X1550 Series
OpenGL Version: 2.1.7412 Release
LLMozLib Version: [LLMediaImplLLMozLib] - 2.01.16039 (Mozilla GRE version 1.8.1.13_0000000000)
Viewer Digest: bb2966f6-cf81-a0de-1e21-dcd21f05428a

"Erick Suavage - 25/Jun/08 06:20 PM
I followed instructions as stated on the links you sent. Cleared cache content and cleared temp files as well as delete and reinstall SL. Although I was able to stay on a bit longer, movement is more choppy than anything and crashed twice when at a public place with others. "

Priority upped to Critical awaiting feedback from Erick and Brad Linden


Yrrek Gran added a comment - 27/Jun/08 05:44 PM
This problem is solved for me. I switched to a Nvidia 6200.

Secondlife has never run better for me. I am running 1.20.11, perfect. Framerates from a low 10fps, up 35 fps.
usually between 15fps and 20fps.

ATI it seems, is more prone to support DirectX than OpenGL. Until ATI decides to better support OpenGL,
these problems in SL will continue

/me becomes an ex-ATI customer.

FOR SALE: Pile of slightly used ATI gfx cards.


Ellla McMahon added a comment - 18/Feb/09 09:25 AM
Please try the latest RC Viewer which can be downloaded from here Release Candidate Test Viewers and please check you have the latest graphics drivers by either going to your manufacturer's site or by checking in Knowledge Base How do I get the latest drivers for my graphics card?

If it still an issue, please see the Meta-Issue: Issues with ATI Catalyst 9.1 VWR-12080

For reporters using the ATI Catalyst 9.1 OpenGL version 2.1.8395 with Crashes / Graphics / Performance issues please

  • Please look at the links above and add, on the appropriate issue, your comments, vote and
  • your full computer environment, Help > About Second Life, including the Viewer you are using and the Region(s) where you have this issue.
  • comment on any Error Message you receive
  • add a screenshot, if applicable

Also, please continue to send in your Crash Reports to LL Edit > Preferences > General > Crash Reports > Always Send

Thank you : )

For account-specific help please post a Ticket with Support see JIRA issue posting guidelines