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As of 4/16/08 this is still a problem. Not only does it affect megaprim sculpts but also normal sculpts. Incidence appear to be random.
This is still a problem. I am getting numerous support requests from customers on this issue, and it is affecting sales as customers ask me why stuff at my shop has not fully rezzed.
Bug is still present in 1.19.1(4) Also it has been confirmed that this does not only affect megaprim sculpts but it can affect all sculpts; it is merely more frequent with megaprim sculpts. Swung by Aminom's island the other day, where he has some megaprim trees and such. Real nice, once they load. Frightening artifacts including lines that seem to stretch off to infinity and confuse the occlusion culler otherwise.
Someone that's seeing this effect should probably update the "Affects version(s)" field of this issue to the latest standard-issue viewer that repros it.
Updated affects version. I've seen this too, notably at aminom's sim, where he has a lot of megaprim sculpts. Very frustrating.
Adding 1.20 to Affects Version. (1.20.6)
Sometimes a sculpt map will not completely load, period. Even if you stand there and stare at the object for several minutes, it will still have that "crinkly" look. This is on a prim that's a few meters by a few meters. Somehow this bug is even worse then the lossless bug (2404). With the lossless bug there are some workarounds, but this one seems to strike totally random. And start appearing in the latest rc-clients it seems.
It happens I guess for all (sculpt) textures, I have seen this happening to sculpties uploaded lossless and not-lossless. The sculpty stays like a ball or lowres 8x8x8 model, untill you click on it or open the sculpt-texture and view that or sometimes when you change the camera. Waiting 10minutes for it to load at an almost empty skybox didnt seem to work. 10 rezzed sculpties, all using the same sculpt-texture at different sizes, totally appear random, some show ok, some still as a ball/lowres model untill you click on it. This one is really killing for the sculpty users and creators in general, a friend showed me this new cave she created some days ago, and i was right-clicking the different sculpties, to see if they were correct/loaded. Somehow you cant have that.. > Somehow this bug is even worse then the lossless bug (2404).
agreed, Cel. it's a very high priority for me. This seems related to an ancient issue where textures don't rezz fully until you edit the object. The behavior Amimom described sounds to me like typical texture-loading behavior... the spherical sculpty shape happens when you have a grey sculpty texture, the "random" shape (which looks like a quartz crystal gone wild) is when the sculpty texture is only partially rezzed, and the correct shape only appears when the sculpty texture is almost completely rezzed.
The underlying texture-loading issue is unavoidable with the current technology since most graphics cards are underpowered, and most of us have much less than the optimal amount of incoming bandwidth. (Although I have seen some improvement over the years in the SL client's handling of those problems.) I can't help wondering if this is an off-by-one problem that's also causing the most recent movement of prims not to be visually updated in the SL client, which is fixed by either sending another movement of the prim or selecting it (not limited to sclps). Are object updates queued internally within the client? Is it missing an event trigger within a conditional bit of code?
Also, recently seen: multiple sculpts of same sclp texture UUID being moved and resized within a link set and one of them appeared low level of detail whilst the others were already at high level of detail for about a second. o.O Does this mean there is redundancy that could be avoided here (I'm guessing because I've not looked at any SL client code)? (my machine is plenty fast enough, renders SL at 20 to 40+ FPS, bandwidth/latency no issue). my guess is that it's a problem with the code which triggers a sculptie rebuild when new texture data arrives.
I agree with Tammy above, and respectfully submit:
This issue does not only affect sculpties... it affects regular textures, and it has at least for a year or more. I understand that the sculpty map and texture loading *may* be separate systems (unless... the sculpty system uses the texture system to load maps?). But have you ever stood at a small store and clicked a vendor... and watched it take more than a minute to load a simple 512 texture? 10 minutes? Ever TPed to a sim and had textures 100m away rez just fine while textures right next to you are not rezzed yet? This isn't a sign of lag. It indicates critical design flaw. Solution: re-examine the entire texture / sculpt map loading system and if necesssary, re-work it from the ground up. It's a mess... and it's a CRITICAL mess. Texture loading affects everything from merchanting to general in-world experience. It is more than top-priority... it should be considered a SHOWSTOPPER. People who get tired of textures not loading, stop shopping... or log off entirely and never come back. The texture issue has been reported for a very long time and still is not fixed. Considering the importance of basic texture loading to the system, I would have to wonder why some programmer isn't in there with a magnifying glass and a fine-tooth comb... or even more appropriately, why a systems analyst hasn't pulled out the original flowcharts to check for logic bugs. Basic matrix algorythm concepts: rez the closest textures first. Rez them fully, then move on. I would think the user would be best served with a matrix spiral: take the 9 blocks surrounding the avatar, rez those textures first, then begin spiraling outward. If an avatar touches a texture (or clicks a device which causes a texture to load) give that texture loading top priority, because it's the center of avatar focus. Plain truth: there is absolutely no reason or excuse for an avatar to have been standing in the middle of a store for 30 minutes, click on a vendor, and have the texture take a full minute to load. That texture should load with all available speed. I have literally been in sims where I'm the only avatar there, stopped at the only store on the sim, clicked on a vendor, and had... the... texture... take... forever... to... load... That's just wrong. It's detremental to the system in general. It's frustrating to the end user. It's right in there with user crashes and sim crossing as far as levels of irritation goes... which means IMO, it should have top priority in getting fixed. Having this problem continue for more than a year is (forgive my bluntness) inexcusable. It's harmful both to SL and its users (especially merchants, who rely on texture loading to sell their wares-- and it's extremely frustrating to the shoppers who are trying to buy those wares). To be perfectly frank, It needs fixed... now. Tammy and Eren: this issue did not occur at all before Windlight. This issue doesn't have anything to do with load time, but rather the failure for the non-rezzed or partially rezzed sculpt to update when the sculpt information is fully downloaded. And so it "sticks" until you select it to force an update.
I feel your pain about textures taking ages to load though :) But that is a separate issue. Hi Aminom. It *may* be a separate issue. But then again, it may not... which is why I posted this here.
Anyone know for sure how sculpty map loading is tied in / not tied in to the texture loading system? If it's tied in, it could very well be a related incident. As far as this happening only since Windlight, sorry, but I noticed sculpties failing to load properly long before that. It's not a new "just since Windlight" issue. Been a problem ever since sculpties were introduced... which means it could very possibly be tied in to the very-similar textures failing to load issue. Dunno. Only LL would know for sure. Added a screenshot that explains this particular bug / problem.
It doesnt seem to do with loading time at all, since my sculpt-image is already fully loaded and show correct for most of my sculpties, but some of them are rendered 'wrong' like a ball or lowres shape, untill I (right) click on them, and they instant show correct. It happens faster for megaprims, but seen it happen for the larger/almost 10m sculpties as well. Yes, I used to get this all the time in SIlent Sparrow, but recently it seems to have been fixed... instead the palm trees on my parcel in LostFurest dAlliez have decided to show it instead.
Ah, that's what is causing this. In one of my builds, I use phantom 16^3 megaprims and sculpties with degenerate polygons to create single-prim rafters. I had wondered why that they wouldn't sometimes load fully, even with the RC8 fix for
I am also having this problem, but I am experiencing it with many sculpted prims, regardless of their size. It's consistent over multiple logins also - it's always the same sculpted prims. Some in question are under 1m.
Selecting them does nothing unless I select the object tab, and then it immediately shows at proper quality. I am not sure if this also happens for other people's sculpted prims, but it does for ones I have access to on the object tab. This is really bad. Still happening with newest SL viewer, seems to be worse even.
1. Sculpties do seem to take longer to load, but this has been explained since its caused by the fix for the lossless bug 2. Rightclicking a sculpty going into edit mode and clicking on the sculptmap seems to make the sculpt load fully much quicker. 3. Sometimes two or more sculpties which have the same sculptmap applied, rezz differently, one rezzes good, other stays in half loaded state, or doesnt load at all till you click it. And clicking one will make all the other sculpties that have the same sculptmap rezz good instantly too. 4. Once all the sculpties have loaded fully they sometimes get borked after falling back in lod, that is they dont take on there normal shape until step 2 is repeated Second Life 1.20.15 (92456) Jul 18 2008 10:58:42 (Second Life Release) You are at 282088.0, 266056.6, 595.6 in Helmudhoe located at sim2771.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.19.14:12035) Second Life Server 1.23.4.93100 CPU: AMD (Unknown model) (2407 MHz) Memory: 4095 MB OS Version: Microsoft Windows Vista Service Pack 1 (Build 6001) Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation Graphics Card: GeForce 8800 GTS/PCI/SSE2 OpenGL Version: 2.1.2 LLMozLib Version: [LLMediaImplLLMozLib] - 2.01.16883 (Mozilla GRE version 1.8.1.13_0000000000) I regularly experience this issue, in fact it is rare that I do not see a failed sculpt load whenever I go someplace where there are sculpts.
This occurs so regularly that it is an everyday, recurring problem. Especially for me, my builds and my home both contain sculpts which make them use fewer prims and tax system resources less than primitive-only builds. If sculpted prims are going to properly mature and contribute to SL the underlying infrastructure for them needs to be designed to perform more acceptably. Given that many of the sculpt maps I see failing to load, or loading extremely slowly, are quite small in size compared to visible textures, it's a severely bad indicator that they might take several minutes longer to load than a 512 or even 1024 square-pixel texture which is in the the same proximity to one's avatar. A 512x512 texture on the surface of a sculpt might load for me acceptably fast, and leave me waiting around for a bizarre period of time with the 128x128 sculptmap loads, taking longer to load on its own than the visible texture took to load in parallel with other things competing for bandwidth. I don't think anyone could argue against that being a clear indicator of an issue, it's downright bizarre and illogical. Having to wait for an illogically long period for raw shapes to load, long after much of the other nearby content has loaded, artificially disrupts the flow of things to enough of an extent to take it seriously. It also makes some content-makers (such as myself) have concerns about using sculpts in situations where they would otherwise be inarguably the best option to use. i believe all the various sculptie bugs should be fixed in 1.21, to be RCed next week.
Woohooo Qarl!
Not to look good news sideways, but is there any chance that the sculpty bug was related to whatever it is that's causing textures to rez so slowly (such as 20+ seconds for a single photo to rez?). Have been kinda hoping thats a related issue and you could kill 2 birds with one stone. If not... that is one of them I'd love to see Qarls skills applied to... because you seem to be the one knocking down the JIRAs one by one. Woot! : ) I have tried selecting sculpties to get them to render properly and this sometimes works but not always. The only solution I have come up with is to log off and then log back on, making sure that in my preferences it is set to log me on at my last location. Sometimes I even have to log off and on twice in the same location to get everything to render correctly. All these problems happen on all my sculpties I have made. All my sculptie maps are only 64 x 64 pixels and uploaded using lossless compression.
Now if we could only just be able to have other features with sculpties like to be able to make them hollow and solid to where the physical edges match the scuplties surfaces. Also flexi scupties would revolutionize the hair industry. :) I have a small correction to make. In my last comments I said that even after updating my viewer I was still having both kinds of sculptie problems. This was wrong. Before I updated many sculpties never rendered correctly no matter how long I waited or how many times I right mouse clicked on them. Now every sculptie snaps into the correct shape as soon as I right mouse click on them. While still very annoying it is an improvement and I no longer have to log off and back on in the same location to be able to right mouse click and snap them into the correct shape. I am really hoping that the next update 1.21 will fix this final flaw.
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Bug
Fix Pending
Major
Large sculpts don't load correctly until selected.
It also seems like the LOD is way too aggressive, especially if the vertices are not evenly distributed.