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WarKirby Magojiro - 09/Jun/07 09:47 PM
Agreed. Granting modify permissions is a big scary risk.
From a developer standpoint (and practial probably also), I guess it would be sufficient if "edit my items" would include attached items. I know those situations helping people, most who are helped this don't have anything (like houses) that you could take anyway, afaik you can't take thing off them if they're worn, so enabling the "may edit my items" stuff for attachments also would be logical (I was quite surprised that it did not work) and probably easy to implement. I agree; this is a major point of frustration. Another bug I have nitived when editing another's objects; if shift+drag to make a copy while editing, the copy will belong to you, regarless of who the original belonged to, even if it's no-transfer.
I welcome this idea. Something like this would be very helpfull in assisting my customers fitting the jewelry on them also. Many have no clue about the build options or are lost using them for it. All it requires is being able to position worn items on another avatar.
Sometimes items are too small and require resizing. But that can be solved with different sizes of items (though that has several drawbacks also) or just doing it myself first for them. As a clothing designer primairly specializing in prim attachments this is a very welcome idea to me also. I had been pushing this idea in the old feature request and intend to do the same here. This is a very much needed option.
I would suggest taking this one step further and have the ability to assign edit rights from the Properties window of the object - an ability able to be attributed from the Inventory, even if the object is Worn.
This would need to take into account No Mod objects as the ability to re-align/rotate etc doesn't necessarily mean changing the object intrinsically. Adjunct to this - the ability to Search on "All Objects With Edit Permissions Granted" in inventory so you could monitor which inventory objects this had been applied to. i am a clothing designer and i have outfits with prim attachments, and i often need to help customers with adjusting them. they'd be willing to give me mod perms, but the inability to edit their attachments is a major annoyance.
As it stands now, there is NO WAY to allow another person to move your attachments.
Generally, this turns a 'I could to it in 10 seconds' operation into a half-hour ordeal (or longer), depending on the person's newbishness... I think this would be a wonderful aid, and a minor business opportunity for some deatil-oriented folks, if done well. The only way to learn about SL or any other complex application is to work with it 'hands-on' yourself. Taking 10 seconds in passing to help somebody by doing it all for them is no real help at all. It is very likely that the aided party will not have the opportunity to absorb what is being done for them and consequently learn from it. They will simply continue to look for another 10 seconds from somebody else when they need to do whatever it is again.
In order to really help someone you should be prepared to take the time and talk them through an operation - however frustrating or complex the process might be. If time or patience is an issue then the simple fact is that you cannot help, you should excuse yourself and let the party find someone else who is in a position to help them. With all due respect Ephraim that is a crappy reason to not improve the interface! It's like saying you need to be able to change your own oil in your car before you can learn to drive properly. Everyone has different levels of capability and skill. There are many people who for one reason or another may find the necessary motor skills for a fine prim adjustment beyond them. These kinds of adjustments can also be complicated if the person has a slow computer, a poor mouse or lag because all of these tend to cause things to skip around for them. This issue is a barrier to entry, one that can be fixed by the lindens. SL is supposed to be fun, i have not come across any "non geeky" newbies who find trying to prevent their butt from showing through their flexiprim skirt or trying to get their their hair on straight a "fun" experience! Sure, people should learn to build ***if they want to,*** but don't expect them to have to do it their first day they go shopping, it's unrealistic!
My comment is not a 'crappy reason' for rejecting the issue at all, StarSong, and you show no 'due respect' whatsoever for the argument I put forward. For that matter, your analogy about the car is ridiculously inappropriate. To enjoy 'the fun' of SL, you absolutely have to learn how to work with the client. Editing avatar appearance and objects is one of the first steps in that direction. So get on with it.
I was a newbie myself just over six months ago and I addressed the steep learning curve of teaching myself to work with the SL client as part of 'the fun' because the creative potential of the medium was in evidence all around me. Sharing what I have since learned with both newbies and old hands alike has also been part of 'the fun' - even though it can often prove to be an arduous and frustrating process. But hey! That's all part of the learning curve as well and guess what? I'm learning how to help others more efficiently and quickly and productively all the time. Whereas I can see how the measure would improve the capacity of developers to accommodate customers with less hassle, I insist that making things easy by allowing others to edit personal objects and attachments would compromise avatar security - for newbies especially. There are far too many other aspects of SL that need to be improved without opening this particular can of worms. This is could be done akin to image entertainment characters in Star Wars Galaxies...the person getting the adjustments to appearance can reject or accept the changes. if they reject it all pops back to where it was. There is a ctrl z function set up in SL so the system is in place for a system for undoing of changes. Granted it'd have to be tweaked obviously but the ground work is there.
I like this idea but I'd like to see it go as far as being able to avi shape numbers even too. It would actually open up a whole new market for on the fly make overs and adjustments. I see your point Ephraim yes people should learn the basics, but there will always be people that don't care to don't want to learn how to do this stuff. They are here to party, and if they are willing to pay for serves others are willing to do why stop them. Not to mention at least for some girls it's fun to let someone else to do a make-over...it's slumber party tradition really. It's exciting to see how someone else might re-make you little differently. It gives you fresh perspective. And this would allow people to do it on the fly for fun make it interactive interface. If anything I see this as chance to open a new interaction possibility. But totally agree there would have to be safety stop gap in that a person getting re-done could reject the changes and it all reverts if they do. A nice little added feature in the 're-do' others pane would be and section to add a tip in linden impute spot. Once two parties agree on the amount and the changes the transaction is finalized and boom...everybody's happy. A true trade interface like you find in many MMO's would be great. Just my 2 cents. This back and forthing creates the illusion that there is some sort of controversy about this issue. In fact, outside of a few "I had to walk both ways uphill through driving snow to adjust MY first prim dress, builds character, it does" sorts, nearly every designer I know who makes prim attachments would positively kill for this ability.
Bear in mind, it would require giving mod rights, so it wouldn't be universally used. But it would significantly aid the new and struggling, as well as enable designers to ensure that their products fit right in a world of near limitless avatars shapes. I've been forced to build a "remote control" script to allow me to help my customers adjust attachments they buy from me.. I have personally LONGED to have this tool, just so I could say "please, let me help you"..
Learning to edit prim attachments is *not* a monumental leap for anyone to make and the more people that do so, the better the quality of the SL experience will be. There is no 'illusion' or 'controversy' about it. The general presentation of avatars and the SL environment will not only improve but the pool of individuals creating, developing and adding to the experience will grow.
'A 3D virtual world imagined and created by its residents' will never amount to much if the residents fail to develop some skills and leave all the creativity up to a minority of builders and developers. Try dropping a notecard in with the product that gives comprehensive and clear advice on how to make adjustments. Save a whole lot of time and let the customers get on with it themselves. Ephraim, I am surprised at your 'chuck them in at the deep end and let them teach themselves to swim' attitude. Supplying written instructions is not always enough or appropriate, depending on the product.
A few reasons why this 'allow edit my attachments' is a good idea - Some people aren't in SL to learn the finer art of altering their prim 'bling', they just want to look good in it, have fun, and make friends. Some people don't want to or are not very good at writing lengthy instructions. Trying to describe how to edit each individual prim on eg. a flexi skirt so it maintains it's shape and flow and doesn't open gaps between the pieces, would be just as mind-boggling for some to read and follow as it would be time consuming for one to write. Alot of people who want help adjusting their attachments actually do want to learn how to do it, but do get cafuddled by the edit tools or instructions and ultimately stuff it up. I've lost count the number of times I've helped my customers fix their clothing when they were at their wits end trying to fix it themselves, and not all were newbs (thus I make most of my more complex items Mod/Transfer). If the customer can watch you at work while you alter items on them, they are more inclined to learn than by just reading instructions. If left to fend for themselves, the items may never be worn again. In the real world you would have your eg. bridal gown altered by the designer or an experienced tailor, you would not have to learn how to sew to do it yourself. This is not a personal attack on you Ephraim, I completely understand where you are coming from. I was new once too, a long time ago now, and back then there were very few people to show us the way, I learned to do most things on my own. But not everyone delves into the nitty gritty of primwork, nor should they HAVE to. I want this feature :) |
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Allow another person to edit your attachments for you
