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Crystal Falcon made changes - 23/Jan/08 12:28 PM
Crystal Falcon made changes - 23/Jan/08 12:39 PM
Rascal Ratelle made changes - 24/Jan/08 05:36 PM
Rascal Ratelle made changes - 24/Jan/08 05:37 PM
Screenshot 1: ATI 8.1 and 7.12 behave this way (see FPS of 0.5 and Discard Bias 1.5)
Screenshot 2: ATI 7.11 functions with normal FPS
Crystal Falcon made changes - 25/Jan/08 02:25 AM
Crystal Falcon made changes - 25/Jan/08 02:26 AM
I got the same problem with my ATI Radeon 9600 Pro. After upgrading to 7.12 or 8.1 I got the same slowdown after a while. I also get some font rendering problems that were not present in 7.11. See VWR-3947.
Going back to 7.11 fixes the problem. edit I see on your screenshots that you also have the font rendering problem in your menu bar. Like I said, this is also caused by upgrading to 7.12 or 8.1
Geraldine Giha made changes - 06/Feb/08 07:30 AM
I've been having the exact same problem lately (roughly the last 2 versions of Windlight) on an nVidea GoForce 9600 with driver version 8.4.6.6, so this may not be specific to ATI. I don't seem to have the problem (or it seems much less bad) using the mainline viewer.
Tried again with the latest 8.2 drivers and WindLight Viewer (79674).
First few minutes are good, until all textures have loaded. Then frame rate will drop to 0.5-1 fps. Unusable. Rolling back to 7.11 fixes this issue. Confirmed with Radeon 9600 XT. 8.2 broken, 8.1 broken, 7.12 broken. Guess Need to go back to 7.11
Honoru Setsuko made changes - 19/Feb/08 12:52 AM
Basically, this all hangs together.
had different problems with ATI drivers (integreated motherboard xpress 200) - crashes when turning 720 degrees but only happens when using the ATI drivers 7.12- 8.2. I reported it here: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5000
Jay Shinobu made changes - 22/Feb/08 11:44 PM
Geraldine Giha made changes - 16/Mar/08 06:02 AM
Azadine Umarov made changes - 05/Apr/08 02:03 AM
Hi Crystal, is this still a problem using the latest Release Candidate? Have you also tried updating your graphics drivers?
Alexa Linden made changes - 26/Aug/08 01:48 PM
I'm sorry Alexa, I gave up on SL with that computer, so I'm afraid I can't try, but updating the graphics drivers is what caused this problem! LOL Hopefully one of the other watchers of this issue would be willing to risk it, or otherwise confirm the newer viewers still have the problem and will re-open this issue if so?
Ironically Alexa, apparently it IS a problem with the current 1.21.0 RC, per Sophia's post a few hours ago in the RC thread on her Radeon 9800 pro, LOL http://forums.secondlife.com/showpost.php?p=2130614&postcount=100
Crystal Falcon made changes - 01/Sep/08 12:03 AM
Thank you Crystal for directing me here. I'll have to report here in a few days as my testing isn't complete with the new RC viewer. I have yet to try it with the very newest ATI drivers. Very busy right now but can try in a couple of days. I would be ecstatic if the new RC viewer enables me to use the newest ATI drivers, whether VBO is enabled or not. I just am tired of having to switch drivers all the time to play other games.
I tried the newest (8.8) ATI drivers today with both the new RC viewer and the regular viewer. There is no change. In fact, I even froze up at a faster rate than with previous new drivers. I noticed on the ATI drivers release notes that there are many games listed with issues and many with resolved issues. Why is Second Life not even listed there? By the way, the new drivers worked great with other programs and I'm so sad I can't keep them installed. I'm back on the 7.11's.
ATI released the Catalyst 8.9 today, please test to see if the updated drivers resolves your issue.
Thank you
Sue Linden made changes - 13/Nov/08 11:09 AM
Sue Linden made changes - 13/Nov/08 11:31 AM
Sue Linden made changes - 13/Nov/08 05:03 PM
Sue Linden made changes - 13/Nov/08 05:18 PM
Sue Linden made changes - 13/Nov/08 05:28 PM
Sue Linden made changes - 13/Nov/08 05:45 PM
Sue Linden made changes - 13/Nov/08 06:15 PM
Sue Linden made changes - 13/Nov/08 06:43 PM
Sue Linden made changes - 13/Nov/08 07:00 PM
Sorry I stopped checking back here till now. My last tries were 8.10 and more recently 8.12. I still slow down to a stop after just falteringly walking a few steps and have to alt ctrl del out of SL but the triangles are gone. I tested with OpenGL checked and without it checked. I'm back on my 7.11's now.
Low FPS confirmed with latest Catalyst 9.3 (incl. OpenGL 2.1.8543) and HD4870 with SL 1.22.11.0. Pretty powerful card that can compensate partly, still performs about 1/3 slower than a much slower NVidia 8600GT. And there is no option to use Catalyst 7.11 as 4800 series of cards is only supported from v8.7 onwards. Pretty much a showstopper for ATI users
The same happens in all currently working viewer versions 1.18-1.23. All render just fine with nVidia graphics (8600GT). CPU: AMD (Unknown model) (2800 MHz) libcurl Version: libcurl/7.16.4 OpenSSL/0.9.7c zlib/1.2.3
Boy Lane made changes - 19/Mar/09 01:08 AM
Ellla McMahon made changes - 19/Mar/09 03:05 AM
This is marked critical but unassigned to a tech? Am I understanding that right? I sure would love to use the new ATI drivers. I'm still on 7.11's with my 9800 Pro. New drivers lock me up still, but ONLY on SL.
Boy Lane made changes - 19/Mar/09 05:11 PM
Boy Lane made changes - 19/Mar/09 05:11 PM
Ellla McMahon made changes - 19/Mar/09 05:25 PM
Ellla McMahon made changes - 19/Mar/09 05:27 PM
OMG Linden Labs, would you please fix this issue already!!!! How many times do we have to tell you ppl. I'm about ready to quit over this. I have new games that need these drivers to work correctly. I just dl'd ati catalyst 9.3 and I'm using a sapphire radeon x1950 gt 256mb agp card. I am not about to switch cards, please get this thing fixed already!!! Why is it I can run all other games but I can't run sl with one of the best cards for my agp board. That takes a brain to figure out.
Come on Lindens all we're asking is for you to respond to a long standing issue. Is it really that complicated? Should have known one day your viewer was gonna become unusable. It was just a matter of time. Can't neglect stuff forever lindens!! ;X
Paula Alderson made changes - 20/Mar/09 06:46 AM
It seems like the viewers won't recognize the new ATI drivers past 7.11.
Alexa Linden made changes - 24/Mar/09 09:30 AM
lindenrobot made changes - 24/Mar/09 09:30 AM
Boy Lane made changes - 13/Apr/09 11:41 PM
Wow after updating my drivers to ATI 9.4 as requested by the techs for another program on my PC.. my SL is now unusable. Everything else displays perfectly.
My screen is totally filled with massive coloured triangles (and i do mean MASSIVE on a 24in monitor) and its completely unviewable and flashing when many avatars are close-by. Both camera movement and avatar movement eg dancing, make it worse. I cant believe that such an update to my system would destroy SL. I have been installing and uninstalling drivers all day and checking back into SL with no improvement whatsoever. OS Windows Vista Ultimate I 'm now at a loss at what to do? Please please help. Horizon, go to Preferences > Graphics > Hardware Options and uncheck the Enable VBO. Apparently SL no longer supports OpenGL in ATI cards...at least, not in mine. I have the same problem and I think that's what this whole Jira is about, although I haven't read it from the beginning in ages. I've just learned to live with it that I can no longer enable VBO. Hope that helps you.
Baloo Uriza made changes - 24/Apr/09 04:11 AM
Ellla McMahon made changes - 24/Apr/09 07:15 AM
please dont give up hope. today in triage we discussed bbo problems and catyist... so maybe this will get looked at.
Cummere Mayo made changes - 04/May/09 06:51 PM
Thank you sophie that eliminated the flashing triangles and random black lines fromthe screen.
Sadly i now crash MUCH more often and i can hear my PC working very hard while im in SL. I'm not sure if this is fan related or processor or the vid card.. but there is an audible busy-ness in my tower when i am in SL and not in any other activity on the internet, until i eventually crash. OH just fyi my PC is a current model Intel 2quad CPU with 2GB RAM and this had no trouble running SL alongside other programs before the driver update. You're welcome, glad it worked for you. As for the drivers, I can't use any drivers newer than the 7_11's or I lock up. I can use new drivers in all other programs though. You might try reverting to old drivers. I've read posts by some on the tech forum that they could use the 7_12's, but it's 7_11 for me.
VBO made it go away for me as well. (Catalyst 9.4, Radeon 4870x2) Since I'm not seeing problems in any other application, even OpenGL based ones, I'm assuming this is a problem with SL. All of the new ATI drivers do this, for the last several months, leading me to believe that ATI fixed a bug that LL Relied on or somesuch. I'm not really knowlegable enough to do anything but speculate though.
I have the same problems with an ATI Radeon 4870, poor frame rate slowing to as low as 2fps when I rotate on the spot. This makes Second Life almost unusable.
So far.. From what I've read, Catalyst 9.5 drivers are expected to be released by May 13th. I hope these help solve some of the problems. More system details.... Sad to say Catalyst 9.5 did not bring relief
Again the problems continue with Catalyst 9.5 and 1.23 RC3 on both Radeon HD4670 and HD3470 integrated HD3200 on 2 different laptops. Affects XP32, Vista32, Vista64, Win7/32bit Win7/64bit and even Ubuntu Linux!!!!!! Triangles still appear on areas with local lights with (default) VBO on. Only workaround is disabling VBO and taking the theoretical performance hit. However because of the blotched implementation, attempts at using VBO actually lower frame rate & overall smoothness is worse with VBO on, ironically!!!! Note that the FBO (Frame Buffer Objects) is needed for the experiemental shadow viewers also appears to suffer extremely badly ... if shadows do get implemented eventually, the performance hit will be so great as to make ATI unusable in future. I've reported this to AMD/ATI about a dozen times.. but they are too myopic to see the elephant in the room: SL and ATI just won't get along too well on any platform until either AMD or Linden budge on their OpenGL implementation. Sad for both.. the HD 4xxx series is fast becoming the gamers choice and SL has > 1.4 million accounts registered - how can either throw away that market intersection in the present economic climate?
Dalek Hax made changes - 06/Jun/09 06:52 AM
Sadly I have to agree with Dalek Hax's comments. Buying an ATI Radeon 4870 for me has been an expensive mistake, it's just a paper weight now.
Personally, I couldnt wait for one or two more revisions, (in other words one-two months longer) for a solution and be able to participate in Second Life without these seriously limiting issues. I wasnt even confident that these issues would be solved at all. Despite this, I hope this bug gets fixed soon as many others are not in a position to adopt my solution. Boy Lane, how much will your new viewer help with this problem? Will it enable those of us on 7.11's or 8.12's to to be able to finally use newer drivers? I was at your site tonight but didn't yet install the viewer. Will you be making a 1.23.4 one anytime soon?
Updated yet again to include Catalyst 9.6 and viewer 1.23.4 - sigh.. looks like no one at Linden or AMD/ATI are listening to either this Jira or VWR-11874.
I find that even with Boy Lane additions to Henri's Cool(SL)Viewer, VBO still needs to be switched off to benefit.. though there is some performance gain(as well as lots of useful features ). How much of this is down to the SSE2 optimisations and how much of it is OpenGL tweaks I don't know. If you have to run the newer set of drivers (i.e like me & a new generation card) it is worthwhile trying, if older drivers work for you, it might be better to stick with them if you don't play other games.
Dalek Hax made changes - 17/Jun/09 04:05 AM
Linden Labs needs to fix their broken OpenGL and support ATI. I don't know how to tell LL this, but NVIDIA is in for a world of hurt. LL would be very shortsighted to not take care of their ATI using customers. Apple just completely dropped NVIDIA, and ATI is going to be the first with a DX11 card. This means that all the developers are going to start following ATI/AMD's lead and developing for their hardware, which means that ATI is more than likely going to have the upper hand in the next generation of hardware. We're about to see games optimized for AMD/ATI hardware, as opposed to NVIDIA and "the way it's meant to be played."
VBO is broken for me on my ATI 4870. Triangles and everything everywhere, as well as poor frame rates. It's somewhat stable for me, but I have friends who crash every 20 minutes. They're going to buy brand new graphics cards (that are NVIDIA) because LL doesn't care about how their broken, hacked together OpenGL implementation runs on all hardware. I keep waiting for VBO to work, and for my friends 4770 to stable out, and I have a feeling it's not going to happen. I'm sorry LL, but I choose ATI over you, and I'm sure there's other that would just stop using SL because it doesn't work right with their card. Someone at LL, please start fixing your broken rendering. Your priorities are in this whole Adult Only thing, when you have people who want to use your service and they can't, because they crash every 20 minutes or there's giant triangles everywhere. Honestly, the ATI situation is pathetic, all because LL uses some cobbled together OpenGL implementation. People were complaining about 7.x Cats? LL, do you realize that the first number in ATI's drivers is the release YEAR? In 2007 people had problems and they still aren't fixed? Because you blame it on the ATI drivers? Has it not occurred to you that the only game people have problems with is your game with it's sloppy OpenGL? I'm sorry if this sounds hostile, but it's not fair that you neglect your customers because you don't think they make up enough of your userbase to care. If you actually are trying to do something about all of this, it would be nice if you wrote something in your blog about upcoming rendering changes. EDIT: EDIT AGAIN: Seriously LL it's been forever and you're losing people because your product just flat out doesn't work. Do you expect casual users to show up to the Jira and complain about their graphics problems? Most users don't even know this thing exists. From the results of this thread, it's pretty clear you don't get it. Valve hardware survey says ~35% of users use ATI cards. Maybe the fact that people don't stick around SL has to do with the fact that VBO is default enabled, they have ATI cards, and it's completely unusable for them at 4FPS with horrible corruption? I wouldn't come to some jira to report bugs for something that I used once. I'd silently move on, except for when the subject was brought up later, I'd say it didn't work and was a waste of time. I'd imagine there's plenty of other people who would and are doing the same thing. This is a much bigger problem than the people trying to bring it to your attention make it out to be, and it's really hurting LL and SL's perception when people download it and see it's completely unusable.
Ellla McMahon made changes - 14/Jul/09 04:41 AM
Ellla McMahon made changes - 21/Jul/09 05:44 PM
There are already beta drivers out, Catalyst 9.8, which I am using right now.
This has been the first time since Catalyst 8.12 that I've been able to login to SL while having Also, this Catalyst beta 9.8 release does not have the flickering textures issue anymore, so no weird Enabling VBO still manages to bring down the machine to a crawl, though. Best leave it disabled. Get the Catalyst 9.8 beta driver for Windows Vista and Windows 7 here: http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost.php?p=1335957212&postcount=3 Mind you, htese drivers are still in BETA! If you are uncomfortable with BETA drivers please use ATI official drivers like http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_catalyst.aspx Even the official Catalyst 9.7 (version 8.632) drivers are supposed to fix the issue with crashing at startup, 9.7 drivers are perfectly fine, i am using them right now and i do not experience any problems except moving when vbo is enabled, but other then that 9.7 allows log in with AI set to advanced and with VBo enabled there are no triangles...
Please note that the "leaked" drivers were only the beta version and of course.. it didnt have all the fixes in it |
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Bug
Reopened
Critical
OpenGL 2.1 from ATI Catalyst 7.12 to 9.6 slows to unusable in moments (apparently from texture data?). Graphics performance (low FPS) very bad in general.
VWR-4304, "Worse, I now suffer major performance decreases, making SL unbearably slow after a few minutes of play. I'm forced to avoid people, open spaces, and anywhere worth going basically." On an ATI X1600 when upgrading to 8.1 drivers (says tried rolling back to "previous" without it helping, which might be 7.12 as well?)