[#VWR-3807] WindLight: Nighttime Brightness does nothing

1. Second Life Viewer - VWR

WindLight: Nighttime Brightness does nothing

Created: 12/Dec/07 11:12 AM Updated: 01/Mar/10 09:39 AM

Component/s:

Graphics

Affects Version/s:

1.20 Release Candidate, 1.20, First Look: WindLight, 1.21 Release Candidate

Fix Version/s:

First Look: WindLight

Time Tracking:

Not Specified

Environment:

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Second Life 1.18.5 (75173) (Second Life WindLight)

CPU: Intel Pentium 4 Northwood Xeon (1196 MHz)
Memory: 768 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: MOBILITY RADEON 7500 DDR x86/SSE2
OpenGL Version: 1.3.1008 WinXP Release
LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.12_0000000000)

Issue Links:

Relates

This issue Relates to:

~~VWR-8499~~ Viewer 1.20.15 isn't dark enough at Midnight.

~~VWR-3240~~ Midnight in Windlight viewer is far too bright

VWR-4907 Environment settings: You can't edit a default preset.

This issue is related to by:

VWR-3277 Bring back original "Nighttime brightness" and "gamma" controls

Linden Lab Issue ID:

DEV-8210

Description

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REPRO FROM TORLEY LINDEN IN Second Life 1.18.6 (76453):

Go to Preferences > Graphics tab and uncheck Basic Shaders (or move "Quality and Performance" to "Low").
Click "Hardware Options" and adjust Nighttime Brightness.

Observe: Nothing happens.
= Expected: Brightness should change when shaders aren't on – compare this behavior to the main (non-WindLight) viewer. Other controls which only have an effect when shaders are off, like Gamma and Fog Distance Ratio, do work.

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ORIGINAL INFO FROM COYOTE PACE:

Original summary: WindLight: Nighttime Brightness (Hardware Options) does nothing even when enabled for non-shader video hardware

In the WindLight viewer, when the video hardware does not have the necessary "shader" capability (Basic and/or Atmospheric Shader tick boxes are grayed out), then the settings for Scene Gamma and other lighting levels are not available. That is, World menu>Environmental Settings>Environmental Editor is grayed out.

However, in this case (at least), the old-style Gamma and Nighttime Brightness controls have been retained and left enabled in the new "Hardware Options" dialog reached from the new single Preferences>Graphics (Custom) dialog.

In at least WindLight(FL) 1.18.5 (75173) ** the Nighttime Brightness control seems to do nothing at all ** – the control value can be adjusted, but there is no visible change in the world view, neither immediately nor after OK'ing the dialog and clicking Apply in Preferences. (In the old pre-WL viewer, it did just what was expected – changed the overall nightime brightness level).

Note, however, that t the Gamma setting appears to work fine in this version, and changes occur immediately, as the control value is altered.

Request: restore the function of the Nighttime Brightness control for our sad old archaic video.

(Notes to kibbutzers: (1) a new video card is not an option in many laptops, including this one; (2) yes, the latest/final video/OpenGL drivers are installed; (3) some comments in the "related" issues touch on this point, but this issue is intended to define it specifically and explicitly.)

Description

REPRO FROM TORLEY LINDEN IN Second Life 1.18.6 (76453):

Go to Preferences > Graphics tab and uncheck Basic Shaders (or move "Quality and Performance" to "Low").
Click "Hardware Options" and adjust Nighttime Brightness.

Observe: Nothing happens. = Expected: Brightness should change when shaders aren't on – compare this behavior to the main (non-WindLight) viewer. Other controls which only have an effect when shaders are off, like Gamma and Fog Distance Ratio, do work.

========- ORIGINAL INFO FROM COYOTE PACE: Original summary: WindLight: Nighttime Brightness (Hardware Options) does nothing even when enabled for non-shader video hardware In the WindLight viewer, when the video hardware does not have the necessary "shader" capability (Basic and/or Atmospheric Shader tick boxes are grayed out), then the settings for Scene Gamma and other lighting levels are not available. That is, World menu>Environmental Settings>Environmental Editor is grayed out. However, in this case (at least), the old-style Gamma and Nighttime Brightness controls have been retained and left enabled in the new "Hardware Options" dialog reached from the new single Preferences>Graphics (Custom) dialog. In at least WindLight(FL) 1.18.5 (75173) ** the Nighttime Brightness control seems to do nothing at all ** – the control value can be adjusted, but there is no visible change in the world view, neither immediately nor after OK'ing the dialog and clicking Apply in Preferences. (In the old pre-WL viewer, it did just what was expected – changed the overall nightime brightness level). Note, however, that t the Gamma setting appears to work fine in this version, and changes occur immediately, as the control value is altered. Request: restore the function of the Nighttime Brightness control for our sad old archaic video. (Notes to kibbutzers: (1) a new video card is not an option in many laptops, including this one; (2) yes, the latest/final video/OpenGL drivers are installed; (3) some comments in the "related" issues touch on this point, but this issue is intended to define it specifically and explicitly.)

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Coyote Pace added a comment - 12/Dec/07 11:23 AM

@Torley – if you see this, please also note that the KB article here https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/security.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=4765 blows off Nighttime Brightness with this comment: "This is no longer used. Instead, use the Advanced Sky Editor's Sun/Moon Color and Ambient Color controls." However, this ASE is not available to non-shader video hardware, which is presumably why this old control is retained here, and hopefully will be returned to working condition.

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Torley Linden added a comment - 03/Jan/08 03:07 PM

@Coyote: I see it! Good observation: Nighttime Brightness should work for non-shader hardware. Some of the problem here is clunky UI (which we'll be updating as we get further along in the transition from "the old way" to WindLight).

I reproed this bug too with Basic Shaders off (where Nighttime Brightness should work), and will import it. Also unlinking from VWR-3463, as this isn't a subjective aesthetic issue, but a clear bug.

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Argent Stonecutter added a comment - 13/Feb/08 07:24 AM - edited

Nighttime brightness and overall gamma should ALSO be settable when shaders are on.

Whether this is implemented by changing gamma during night or some other scheme, it's completely necessary because of differences in displays and video cards can make night way too dark. Going in and manually changing gamma in ALL the lighting profiles works, for now, as a workaround, but it's way too clumsy. There needs to be an override.

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Coyote Pace added a comment - 13/Feb/08 10:52 AM

The Release Notes for WindLight First Look 1.19.0 (79674) of Feb 12, 2008 claim this was a Bug Fix (DEV-8210, VWR-3807). (The Blog announcement did not include this among the Bug Fixes, however?!)

However – Nighttime Brightness control (in Hardware Options) still does nothing at all on the machine listed at the start of this issue. Nothing happens when the control is worked higher or lower (Gamma still works fine, however); neither does changing the control and clicking, even if followed by a Preferences Apply or OK. Nada.

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Torley Linden added a comment - 22/Feb/08 05:59 AM

@Coyote: Try the newest version, http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/02/15/new-small-update-windlight-viewer-80042/

Here's what happened: Nighttime Brightness was REMOVED due to it being clunky UI.

Instead, lighting should be similar with Atmospheric Shaders ON and OFF.

Test:
========-
1) In preferences->graphics->custom check and uncheck atmospheric shaders (requires basic shaders).
2) The brightness of the lighting shouldn't differ substantially between the two.
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Argent Stonecutter added a comment - 22/Feb/08 09:06 AM

Nighttime Brightness is still required.

The point to adjusting nighttime brightness is to override the defaults, not to make the defaults work the same way in two places. People have different preferences for how "realistically dark" they want the night, due to differences in vision, in monitor brightness, and in their real-world ambient lighting.

Adjusting the defaults by adjusting Windlight settings is not adequate:

The process is complex, and even more complex now that WIndlight doesn't let you save default settings: not only do you have to change the gamma in 5 or 6 separate profiles, you now have to save them under new names AND then create a new day cycle.

The settings are not saved when you upgrade to a new version of Windlight, so you have to save and restore 6 or 7 files in two directories.

When region-based Windlight settings are available, you won't be able to use them without losing your nighttime brightness settings.

This is still an open issue, and still a major issue.

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Jacek Antonelli added a comment - 22/Feb/08 01:37 PM

Perhaps "Nighttime Brightness" should be a multiplier. E.g., if the current environment settings said the moon should have a brightness of 1.5, but you had set a Nighttime Brightness of 1.2, you would effectively see a moon brightness of 1.8 ( = 1.5 * 1.2). This would allow for broad adjustment to fit different user needs, without the hassle involved in manually tweaking the default Windlight profiles.

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Argent Stonecutter added a comment - 22/Feb/08 05:18 PM

My suggestion in another JIRA entry (I can't locate it now) was that Nighttime Brightness should be a modifier for the gamma, and/or a modifier for both directional and ambient light. That is, if nighttime brightness is 1.5, then the gamma setting for any profile during the SL 'night' should be multiplied by 1.5, and/or the ambient light level should be increased by 50%.

I would rather it be applied to the whole scene (gamma) or preferentially to ambient light, rather than changing the directional lighting... mainly because Windlight itself has already dramatically increased the impact of directional lighting with the enhanced contrast.

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Torley Linden added a comment - 10/Mar/08 10:44 AM

This issue was resolved as "Needs More Info" during our batch cleanup because it was set as affecting First Look: WindLight. On the Issue Tracker, we've noticed many duplicate issues and issues that lacked actionable info or were already fixed.

WindLight recently "graduated" from a "First Look" technology preview to Release Candidate status – nearing inclusion in the main viewer with your help! So, "First Look: WindLight" does not exist anymore.

More info and how to download the RC viewer: http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/03/06/new-release-candidate-viewer-1191-rc0-available/

If you've verified that this issue is still a problem in the newest Release Candidate, here's what to do next:

(1) Search the Issue Tracker to make sure it isn't a duplicate of an existing issue we know about. If it is, link it as a duplicate using the "Link this issue..." link on the left. You can learn more about searching by watching this video tutorial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAlXK5hSVMc

(2) Reopen the issue and BE SURE to update the "Affects Version/s" to the correct one, most likely ONLY "1.19.1 Release Candidate". However, if this bug affects the main viewer (1.19.0 as of this writing), then DO NOT set it to an RC version. Only set it to 1.19.0 instead. Be as specific with versions as possible – there's generally no need to set multiple versions, as it tends to dilute and confuse where a bug originated.

(3) Add any other relevant details that would help us fix it. We can't stress the importance of a "solid repro" enough – a reliable series of steps to make a bug happen reliably.

(4) Come and attend our inworld bug triages, where you can meet with Linden Lab employees to look at, verify, and expedite bugs for fixing. More info @ http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage

Thank-you for helping us improve Second Life!

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Argent Stonecutter added a comment - 10/Apr/08 10:52 AM

Reopening because there is NO equivalent in Windlight to the classic nighttime brightness and gamma controls.

It is barely practical now to use the per-preset controls to create a new day cycle. After region presets and region day cycles are implemented this will not be a usable workaround any more.

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Coyote Pace added a comment - 10/Apr/08 04:53 PM

@Argent – you probably will want to change the "Affects Version/s" on this item if you want to regain the Lindens' attention on this issue (per Torley's note, above)

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Argent Stonecutter added a comment - 10/Apr/08 05:21 PM

Update "affects versions".

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Argent Stonecutter added a comment - 30/Aug/08 04:23 PM

Whoever resolved this as "cannot reproduce" is completely misreading it.

The problem still exists. There is no way to globally change the gamma of the in-world environment, either all the time or specifically at night. Before Windlight there was.