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Seg Baphomet added a comment - 12/Dec/07 04:12 PM
Yes, this is really annoying. If anything they should get first priority.
I agree, loading sculpt maps shouldnt take too much time since they are ussually very small, if you load them before the other textures atleast you'll have all the shapes right.
I wonder if this is an easy thing to do for LL. perhaps they should just load textures from small size to big size. Most sculptmaps would automaticly get loaded first then. I agree, sculpt maps should definitely get top priority. I hate sitting in a build full of textured spheres wondering when the sculpt maps will load. Very annoying.
This is a very important issue. Apparently Qarl is going to apply a fix for the lossless bug this week. With this, 64x64 pixel images would be at max 4 kb in size- and that is only for the most complex, hard-to-compress sculpts. One of the laws of 3D modeling is geometry is to be loaded first, then textures. Thus, 64x64 pixel images and lower should have a much higher loading priority- at most it should only be 1-2 seconds per sculpt with SL's bandwidth slider maxed out (and a good broadband connection.)
I wholly agree. I have a friend who refuses to use them because of this reason.
I don't think they should have first priority, though. geometry, and terrain should always be first. But sculpt maps should load before all "normal" textures. Also, Harmpie has a good idea there. Loading textures in increasing order of size would also help to encourage people to use smaller textures unless necessary, instead of using 1024x1024 textures for pointless things
I completely agree, textures that make forms (sculpties) before surface textures. I am not completely sure about the loading priority according to size. There are reasons to load bigger before small. First they likely cover bigger surfaces, second small files tend to be transported smaller than big ones in number for the overhead. 1 MB 1 File is like 10 times faster than 100 10 kb pics. So before asking such a thing one would need to make some researches about statistics. In any case a functiion that defines priority of a textureload would help too in the build tool. To let signs and so on load before other less important textures.
Will a higher priority help guarantee that sculpties are fully rez'd even if you set your available texture ram down to 32mb? Because as it stands now, anyone who's PC is a little behind the times may never see a fully rez'd sculptie whether the texture was downloaded completely or not. It would be very nice for those people if the texture never reverted to a lower-res state, and the sculpty remained perfectly intact, unless it absolutely had to.
Also, why are 128x128 lossless images getting screwed out of the deal in the fix proposed for this? That resolution was the original threshold decided upon when implementing lossless, and so any new rules regarding it should cover up to 128x128. Or maybe I just misunderstood and the fix applies to 128x128 and under AS WELL as 64x64. Hope so! =) Steve Linden explained that sculpted textures are already prioritized above everything except terrain, selected items, hud items, UI images, and avatar images.
Ok ...
Shall we rename this Issue to "Sculpt textures load as if they would have a WAY too low a priority in the interest list." ? Because the effects described are actually visible by everyone who wants to see them. quoting McCabe Maxsted: Is there a follow-up VWR already ? I was thinking this last night, as I sat on the platform at Lusk, and watching several avatars for which everything but the sculpt textures - including all the prim surface textures - had been loaded for several minutes. The bandwidth meter (thank you so much for bringing that back) was sitting near zero.
Possibly there is something unexpected going on with the interest list, or possibly there was something else going on preventing the sculpt textures from being displayed even thought they had actually loaded. Any thoughts there? Reopening and changing the description, because there really IS a problem.
Attached image SculptFail.png of Lusk platform after several minutes. Note that the circled sculpties are still unloaded despite the fact that the surface textures and, well, virtually everything else has loaded.
Perhaps the problem is that sculpts in attachments are not being loaded with other sculpts? I they're already prioritised, then there's clearly something else wrong. I'm still seeing problems with sculpts not loading when everything else has many minutes ago.
Something like this happens alot for me, But, for some reason if you right click them, they will normally render correctly, it seems they 'load' from cache/server, but it never updates the mesh for them, also it gets stuck in the half loaded state from time to time aswell...
I have seen that behavior as well, but this is not like that... right-clicking on the objects doesn't help, and when they do load they load slowly in multiple stages the way sculpties normally load. The only thing that does force them to load faster is using one of the usual tricks to increase texture loading priority, such as selecting the prim in the object editor and switching to the "object" tab to make it display the image of the sculpt map.
Child issues with suggestions on specific fixes would be great here.
During triage, Gigs suggested decoding/downloading shape textures before render textures, for example. This would lessen the time those sphere are visible. Or there's the icosphere suggestion above, which I assume means an intentionally low-poly icosphere for coarse faces. If any of these appeal - make child issues? @Soft:
"During triage, Gigs suggested decoding/downloading shape textures before render textures, for example" This is exactly why this issue is here. Because as far as we were seeing, other textures were being downloaded first. And we were told this Bridie Linden - 13/Mar/08 04:00 PM So am I misunderstanding, or is one of you (soft or steve) mistaken? The icosphere is for the seperate matter, of spheres showing while sculpts are loading, and I would not say it's relevant to this particular issue. This issue is about the TIME taken for sculpts to load. And I do frequently observe sculpts being textured while they're still balls. If it's possible, prioritising them farther is definitely the solution. that's what this issue suggested in the first place, so I don't think there's a need for a child issue from it. i hear what Steve is saying - code-wise the sculpt maps are given quite a high priority. but anecdotally, it seems that they are very slow to load. if this is the case - it implies we have a bug in our texture priority system.
if someone can create a nice reproducible example which clearly demonstrates the problem - that'll go a long way to get LL to investigate the problem. The way I generally reproduce it is by clearing cache and visiting Lusk/240/128/60 or thereabouts.
 A nice repro for you:
heh - yes - but those are messy examples. are you SURE the sculpt maps are getting low priority? yes, i see surface textures loading on sculpted prims before they have their sculpt map - but perhaps those textures are used elsewhere, and began loading before the sculptie ever reached your viewer.
by way of example - i'm thinking of a large area with equally spaced sculpted prims - where each prim has a unique sculpt-map and surface texture. if we see surface textures loading before sculpt maps - then it's a done deal. Isn't it as simple as clearing cache and logging into the target area then, qarl ?
if the textures are used elsewhere in the sim, the sculpts should surely still load first, if they're prioritised. not if it's a target area like straylight.
when i TPed into straylight, i saw several tree trucks which had their bark texture - but not their sculpt texture. what happened was that the bark texture is used repeatedly throughout the sim - it's possible it was on the very first prim my viewer downloaded. in this case, i understand why the bark loaded before the sculpt maps. so we need a controlled experiment. If you look at the picture I posted, I am pretty sure the necks of those giraffes are textured with a texture that is only used on the necks of those giraffes. Sculpted avatars are the most common case I see for this, and sculpted avatars frequently have textures that are unique to the prim they're on.
No, I'm not sure that there's a priority problem. I am sure that there's a problem, because I see sculpties remaining simple spheres for long after everything else has loaded and been textured. It could be an interest list problem - the sim seems to have a unique monotonically increasing internal ID for the prims in the sim, and pumps them out in that order rather than (for example) in order of distance from the agent or camera (again, this is supposition). This would tend to defer prims in attachments because they're continually recreated as far as the sim is concerned. It could be a problem with the sculpties not being rendered even though the textures have loaded, as someone suggested above. I've seen that problem too, but there right-clicking on the prim triggers a refresh somehow and the prim "collapses" to the sculpt mesh. That doesn't explain the cases where right-clicking doesn't work. It could be unique to sculpties in attachments. I have seen other problems with sculpt textures loading for attachments - for example my sculpted animated dolphin avatar has more problems being rendered than the same sculpt textures and scripts running in an unattached prim. That's why I changed the subject of this Jira when I reopened it. Yes there IS a problem !
It is not unique to attachments. Try CMP4 where the Sculptie Displays of this Springs Life2.0 Sculpty Day are. Aminom Marvin, Anjin Meili, Cel Edman, Crash Prefect, Xenius Revere, Yuzuru Jewell and me have set up stuff there. One observation: My Sculpties there are all lossless 64x64 (which to my understanding should be optimal) But at Cel Edmans Display you can also see the black-red ziggy-zack column suffering the same problem like my sculpties. Go there ... see if / how sculpties load .... clear cache .... and try again. I just retested it with 1.19.1 RC2 Okay, this is what I did:
This is definitely not unique to attachments. thanks much McCabe - that's exactly what i needed.
For a really nasty example:
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Areumdeuli/122/81/189 
There is a globe made out of hundreds of sculpted prims, each with its own model and visual texture. With 1.19.1.2 I'm seeing most visual textures load before the model textures. I suspect the effects
"I hate sitting in a build full of textured spheres wondering when the sculpt maps will load" and "128x128 Sculpt Textures load faster than 64x64 Sculpt Textures" have a common cause here. Would it be possible to organize a special Sculptie-Fixing office hour with: Qarl Linden (Sculptie Guru), In http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5647 One observation that is depressing many Sculptors, is the fact that the current state of investigation, fixing or when to expect the deploy of a fix is totally unclear in most cases. Anyone who is a bit familiar with the Sculptie-community in SL will see that the list of voters on these Issues reads like a who is who of Sculptie tool developers and Sculpt Savants. We are all willing to help in any way possible to get some progress on these Issues ! Please take into account that you have access to a group of people (look through the voter-lists) that are willing to help you on this for free The goal of the suggested special office hour would be to improve communication between relevant Lindens and the community around Sculpties as well as communication between Lindens that are normally working in different departments (it seems ... no offense) to come together to focus on Sculpties for a second. Please at least think about it ... it is only a suggestion ... but i think i have a valid point here that needs to be addressed in some way. I could justify saying the same in more angry words, due to the time this has been going on by now. But would it help ? Sculpts failed to load even after sitting and staring at this sculpted object for at least 10 minutes. It should look like this when loaded:
http://cubeyterra.com/images/20080502-hoverbike_prototype_4square.jpg  In addition to the aforementioned ongoing issues with lossless uploads and time to render the sculpt mesh, it seems that the RC5 viewer has implemented newer render optimization code (an attempt to reduce clientside lag?), where the LOD of sculpties is now EXTREMELY low at distances as small as 5m.
Previously, with max render and draw distance settings, a sculpt mesh would have a high LOD at reasonable distances that were tens of meters away, which was more effective and realistic. Having the LOD reduce at these low distances looks very unattractive and needs to be remedied. Okay, the problem here is that texture download is just generally broken, especially when it comes to lossless textures. Check out Michelle2 Zenovka's comment in
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1815?focusedCommentId=60343#action_60343 There's also some patches that may fix this. I haven't had a chance to really test them out yet. hey all - got some interesting news:
the fix for i don't want to say this issue is completely fixed - but now i need more repros to test against. Qarl:
It might be irrelevant at this point, but did you try out Michelle2's patch in Uchi -
i did talk to Michelle about her patch - it had two parts. one part is already in the fix for vwr-2404, and the other we agreed would be best put into the server side. i'll be doing that work tomorrow. Qarl: good news, good to hear. Try the Lusk platform some time.
This is DEFINITELY improved for me in 1.21.0 (93713) public nightly. Need to run some more tests, but tp'd into straylight and it loaded like a dream. First time I've ever seen trees before their textures.
This has gotten significantly worse for me on 1.21 (95596).
When selecting a sculpt texture to create a sculptie prim, it takes close to 5 minutes for it to load. Looking at the texture loading menu (CTRL+Shift+3 ) the download bar slowly creeps to completion. I also notice after being logged in for a long duration 3 hour, sculpties that rendered properly before get out of wack. Panning the cam around it, zooming in and out seems to make a Second Life 1.21.2 (95596) Sep 3 2008 14:52:15 (Second Life Public Nightly) You are at 156616.8, 279348.0, 23.8 in Moirae located at sim4690.agni.lindenlab.com (63.210.159.86:13005) CPU: AMD (Unknown model) (2210 MHz) libcurl Version: libcurl/7.16.4 OpenSSL/0.9.7c zlib/1.2.3 An easy fix for this is to put the same sculpt t texture on a prim somewhere either inside of the object or nearby, as is then a regular texture, it will pop higher on the priority as it is no longer just a sculpt map. Once the physical texture loads, the sculpt automatically loads too. I have been using this trick for a while, to force my sculpts on my avie to load quicker for quite some time.
If that actually works then there really is a problem with the interest list. Sculpt maps should have a higher priority than surface textures, so the opposite effect should hold – putting the texture into a sculpt should force a surface texture to load faster.
yeah, Argent is right - if that still works in 1.21, we still have a problem. but i've tested quite a bit - it does look like sculpties uniformly get a very high priority.
Adeon: can you verify that you can make this work in 1.21?
On the first picture...that's what happened to me when i updated from 1.19.1 to 1.20. How to fix this i have no idea...I just got the same problem.XD
RC 1.22.6/7 has deliberately lowered the priority of sculptmaps, and we're back to the old problems. Re-opening.
If there are conflicting opinions about the priority sculptmaps should have, it seems the only option is to add it as a new slider.
Sculpt priority: Low [ =======> ____ ] High I am using Second Life 1.22.10 (112620) Feb 20 2009 17:25:43 (Second Life Release Candidate) have been using it for a few days now and all was working ok till I cleared my cache this morning and when i logged into my sim I waited for the sculpties to load but they have not, I uninstalled the client and reinstalled it again and they will still not load. Also i noticed two grey areas in the store, those textures will now not load, I tp'd a friend into the building and she was seeing everything as it should be. My computer is over a week old I rezzed the couch out at another sim but same problem happened. I cannot remember what sculptie map i used so I cannot give any info on that
Win Vista 32 bit Intel Core Duo CPU 2.80GHZ ASUS GForce 9800GT First system specs:
Second Life 1.22.11 (113976) Mar 6 2009 16:05:03 (Second Life Release Candidate) You are at 241049.5, 273941.1, 22.1 in Sunbeam located at sim2102.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.16.107:13002) CPU: Intel Pentium 4 (Unknown model) (2800 MHz) libcurl Version: libcurl/7.16.4 OpenSSL/0.9.7c zlib/1.2.3 Second Script code: list maps= ["8d14c42f-ce96-2c58-dc12-b7a9e9b45027","98a1f0ff-26b3-9374-6efc-76108b39ddf6","e6d61de2-9315-ca9f-9267-de2dc53fdd0e"]; on_rez(integer x) { llResetScript(); }// touch_start(integer x) llSetText((string)count,<1,1,1>,1); On the above stated system with the with the above listed script i am able to readily repro this as the script is cycled through the maps( yes these are 'vortex vomit' maps except one is normal, because you need the 'high' detail to easly see the problem) you will see that some of the maps appear to 'snap' when the map is loaded to the texture of the prim. also you will notice on the 'normal' sculpt map that there are some 'odd' cuts on the coner spheres and those were not there when i first uploaded the map as a loss less image. I respectfully disagree with Argent Stonecutter that this should be resolve by making it an option. There is a clear imbalance. Someone can appear with hundreds of prims of hair and jewellery almost immediately. See Snapshot_002.jpg for a picture at maximum zoom (to show LOD doesn't help much). But one sculptie with much lower rendering and download cost somehow takes a minute to appear. Is this balanced? I don't think so.
Well, it's almost the end of June and this is STILL a problem. Sculpt-map need to load faster. I'd rather look at a gray tree that a textured sphere. This affects the "reality" of the world. It's not a small issue. Where is this issue in the priority list?
LL says my problem is the same as in this thread. Maybe it is, but one thing is different – my partially rezzed objects never fully rez.
This problem occurs for me using the official SLV, Cool Viewer, and GreenLife Emerald Viewer. However, the Snowglobe Viewer works okay. |
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Bug
Reopened
Major
Sculpt textures not loading for many minutes, APPEAR to have too low a priority in the interest list.
