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Key: VWR-3786
Type: Bug Bug
Status: Reopened Reopened
Priority: Normal Normal
Assignee: Unassigned
Reporter: Ceera Murakami
Votes: 2
Watchers: 2
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1. Second Life Viewer - VWR

Age verification can't protect content that is more than 50 M above terrain

Created: 11/Dec/07 06:44 AM   Updated: 21/Jun/09 07:32 AM
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Component/s: Land
Affects Version/s: 1.19.0 Release Candidate, 1.23
Fix Version/s: None

Environment: ALL
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 Description  « Hide
The age verification implementation is only a ban to 50M above the terrain. This makes it completely useless in protecting a skybox, where 95% of adult-related activities take place. Virtually no one does adult activities that would require restricting down on the ground, where anyone can walk by and stare through the walls. We moved up into the sky long ago, as it was the closest thing to 'privacy' that SL offered.

So right now, any build more than 50 M above the terrain is completely unprotected, even if you flag the parcel as age verification required. Heck, my 4-story castle has a basement, so it wouldn't even protect the bedroom on the top floor!

There is no way to ban or eject a person who has no age verification from a parcel at more than 50 M from terrain height, or even to detect that they are not verified. No LSL calls that a security system can use to determine if they should be banned and ejected.

And no, restricting the parcel to a specific group doesn't help, because THAT only goes to 50 M above the terrain as well!

Requested resolution:

Either make the ban on access for people who are not age verified go to maximum build height, or give us usable LSL commands that a security script can use to detect, ban and eject a person that has no age verification. The ability to have a script ban or eject based on age verification should NOT be tied to a parcel-level ground ban, as what is on the ground may be perfectly family-friendly, and all you may need to protect is your personal bedroom, up in the sky.



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Argent Stonecutter added a comment - 14/Dec/07 06:41 AM
First of all, there is a workaround for the height limit. This is not to be considered a solution for the lack of meaningful privacy controls in Second Life, of which this is just a special case, but it's a workaround you can use right now.

Create a 16m parcel at ground level not owned by any open group, with age verification required.

In this parcel put an "ace check" prim, perhaps a transparent prim in a solid doorframe they have to pass through.

In this prim put the following script:

integer MAGIC_CHANNEL = 36725367;

default() {

state_entry() { llVolumeDetect(TRUE); }

collision_start() { llRegionSay(MAGIC_CHANNEL,llDetectedKey(0)+" "+llDetectedName(0)); }

}

In your security script have the listener use llGetOwnerKey() to verify that you are the owner of the script that's sending the message to it, to prevent spoofing, and add the UUID and name it recieves to its access list.

I will post a separate comment on this proposal itself, later.


Argent Stonecutter added a comment - 14/Dec/07 06:59 AM
Neither of the solutions you propose are good.

Adding an LSL call that allows people to perform more data-mining on individuals is following a bad precedent, and making the growing privacy problems in SL worse. If someone does or does not choose to enable access to adult-oriented areas of SL should not be broadcast to anyone who can find their UUID. Particularly when groups like w-hat maintain public UUID-name map databases, and landowners are using parcel streaming to build their own IP-UUID databases ostensibly to protect against griefers... no doubt these databases will eventually become as public as w-hat's, which will mean website owners will be able to use web-bugs to link real identities with SL names.

Creating "infinite height" access controlled volumes for people who aren't interested in visiting "adult establishments" is equally bad. When access controls were briefly raised to the build limit it made vehicle flight in SL impossible.

The short-term solution is in my previous message.

The long term solution is real access controls, preferably something like the "parcel basements" variant of SVC-205, or the "phantom zone" ground-level privacy pocket. Skyboxes are a poor solution to a problem that LL has yet to adequately address.


Steve Linden added a comment - 19/Dec/07 02:27 PM
Age Verification is OPT-IN; If a land owner wants to restrict access to content on their parcel, they need to restrict that parcel to within the ban height limit, same as any parcel level access limits.

Obviously on a per-estate level (where, frankly, this sort of restriction is more useful) this is not an issue.


Matthew Dowd added a comment - 20/Dec/07 04:48 PM
Steve,

You are claiming that age verification is OPT IN i.e. that I can choose to have adult content on my land and not restrict it to age verified accounts if I don;t with to?

This isn't what the Age Verification FAQ says:

What if I come across very mature content on land that does not ban unverified adults? As has occurred in other cases, we expect our Residents to report such activity.

So, if I were to have adult content on my land (and didn't have an estate), I would have no choice but to restrict access otherwise I'd risk getting reported. That is not OPT IN!

As it stands, if I were to have adult content in a skybox - that would be eligible for being reported even if the access retriction were in place.

Is LL effectively banning all adult content from above 50m above ground, except on age verified restricted private estates?

Re-opened as this needs addressing - either this needs changing or LL's policy on adult content in areas which cannot be restricted (e.g. above 50m) needs to be clarified.


Argent Stonecutter added a comment - 20/Dec/07 05:33 PM
The "parcel basements" variation of privacy pockets, particularly if implemented with script control for access, would resolve this issue: put the access script in an llVolumeDetect prim that the visitor has to pass through to be granted access to the pocket, and if they're not allowed on the land they won't be able to pass through it.

Balp Allen added a comment - 07/Feb/08 05:24 AM
LL have several times states hat all age verifications is optional and there should be no actions against content ovener that don't use age verification. (And I'm happy about that as the only way to get age verifies id to good for drivers licene and use 2-tac's, given that Intragrity stil haven't fund out he is dead...)

The only working solutions is to remove the currect age verifications and start over. Back to the drawing boards...


Haravikk Mistral added a comment - 07/Feb/08 10:36 AM
Linked to the overall privacy meta-issue as this touches on issues that are an overall privacy concern and NOT specific in any way to privacy pockets.

Argent Stonecutter added a comment - 28/Jul/08 03:02 PM
SVC-2390 would fix this, wouldn't it?

Ceera Murakami added a comment - 25/Feb/09 10:30 AM
Yes, Argent. If SVC-2390 also allowed one to apply the age verification restriction to a volume in the sky, WITHOUT removing the ability to use other sorts of access control, such as restricting access to a group, or on a sim-wide level making the area not Public, then it would go a long way to being worthwhile.

But as implemented, an age restriction that is only effective for 50M above the terrain is worthless.


Ramzi Linden added a comment - 15/Jun/09 03:35 PM
This issue was resolved as "Needs More Info" during a batch clean-up of PJIRA issues.

Reason: for an extended length of time, this bug seems to be missing enough details (reproducible steps) for Linden Lab to import the bug and investigate. Also the last affected version of the viewer on this report is viewer 1.21 or 1.20, 1.19, or even earlier, which are versions that are no longer actively supported.

It is possible that this bug is indeed valid and should remain open-- however, Linden Lab needs the following pieces of information before it is Reopened:

To reopen, please do all of the following:

(1) It is very important to confirm that this bug still occurs in the latest official version 1.23. Please upgrade to that version by browsing to http://get.secondlife.com , and test if you can still reproduce the bug using Viewer 1.23.

(2) If so, then please Reopen this issue and BE SURE to choose the "Affects Version/s" = 1.23

(3) Also, re-describe the steps that another person can follow to experience this bug. An example of a good "recipe" for a bug report can be found here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Issue_tracker#Guidelines_for_a_bug_report

(4) Come and attend the inworld bug triages, where you can meet with Linden Lab employees to consider, verify, and expedite bugs for fixing. For more information, see http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage

Thank you for helping us improve Second Life!


Ceera Murakami added a comment - 15/Jun/09 04:39 PM - edited
What part of "Does not protect anything more than 50M above the terrain" was insufficiently described?

re-describe the steps that another person can follow to experience this bug:
Turn on Parcel-level age verification. Place a prim at 51M above the terrain in that parcel. Take a test avatar that is not age verified via Aristotle, and try to land on that prim, 51 M above the "age verification required" parcel. NOTHING STOPS YOU, because like all parcel bans, unless you are explicitly banned BY NAME, the parcel ban effect only extends 50M above the terrain.

Affects EVERY SL CLIENT EVER RELEASED, including version 1.23. Sorry, I can't change the "Affects Version" info on this ticket. I see no way to edit that, as a Resident.

This bug report is NOT related to the newer sim-level "Adult Content Approved" requirement, requiring rating a sim as ADULT instead of MATURE or PG. That Adult sim rating requirement DOES NOT, in any way, shape or form, prevent an under-aged kid from accessing the sim, because any 13 year old can still go to Wal-Mart and buy a VISA Debit Card, or set up a Verified PayPal account, and can have "Payment info on file", which has been deemed "good enough": for access to ADULT rated sims.

My request is SPECIFICLY with regard to being able to REQUIRE Aristotle age verification, and for that to affect the parcel or the sim at ALL ALTITUDES. It is NOT resolved by any system that allows payment info to be "good enough" to get in.

Requested resolution:

Either make the ban on access for people who are not ARISTOTLE age verified go to maximum build height, or give us usable LSL commands that a security script can use to detect, ban and eject a person that has no ARISTOTLE age verification. Ideally, the ability to have a script ban or eject based on age verification should NOT be tied to a parcel-level ground ban, as what is on the ground may be perfectly family-friendly, and all you may need to protect is your personal bedroom, up in the sky.


Argent Stonecutter added a comment - 21/Jun/09 07:32 AM
This could also be fixed with SVC-205