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Trice Beam added a comment - 16/Nov/07 09:42 PM
Screen 1 is full of graphic errors.
as you can see in screen 2 it gets worse over time.
in this Non-windlight screen #3 the area as it should look with out the rendering issue.
Running on an ATi Radeon X1600 Pro.
As you can see, same problem. BTW: Had to attach as a file... LL used Java for their ss uploader, and it locks up when I try to upload. Who the heck uses Java for file transfer? >_> I have reported this problem in the new Windlight FirstLook client (ID #1028625). My graphics card is a ATI Radeon 9550 AGP.
As Trice Beam says, it gets worse over time. I'm considering the Windlight client unusable until this is fixed. I have linked a couple of other issues to here, as they seem the same.
I also have this, but only when VBO is turned on. One way I can generally make it happen consistently is if I turn in circles in the same spot (with plenty of objects around Do any of you who have this problem, also have VBO on, and does it go away if you turn VBO off? Also happening on my ATI x850 after a short period of time.
Windows Xp pro Latest catalyst drivers. Disabling VBO has resolved this for me.
Gah .That description is obscene.
You can attach files to issues. It would be best to copy the detailed system specs into a .txt and attach that, rather than having them within the description. I have a Radeon X1800XT. I've observed similar issues in the old client, but VERY rarely, and never anywhere near as severe as these pictures. I have no issues with windlight at all. add x800XT AGP to the list as well.
win XP pro SP2 all up to date generic P4 3.0ghz with generic 2gigs ram happens with ATI WDM driver package 6-6_xp-2k_dd_ccc_wdm_enu_33678.exe and the latest 7-10_xp32_dd_ccc_wdm_enu_53250.exe WindLight First Look 1.18.5(73655) November 14, 2007 Same problem, just spin around a few times.. Would also like to confirm that turning off VBO seemed to fend off the traingular horde.
Same here....
Second Life 1.18.5 (73655) Nov 13 2007 12:57:54 (Second Life WindLight) You are at 247182.9, 282283.1, 68.1 in Blue Ocean located at sim3236.agni.lindenlab.com (64.129.45.1:12035) CPU: Intel Pentium 4 Northwood (3200 MHz) Disabling VBO has resolved this for me. Adjusted the title to indicate that the problems seem to be in the VBO system, as so far the disabling VBO workaround seems to be working for everyone.
Hi, the same here on my PC.
Have win xp, a pentium Core2 6600, So it is obvious...this problem is not only on ATI-Cards... Had such a problem, after this porblem occured...that every other start with windlight...AND the standard viewer gave me the same triangle view.....was completly messed up. Tested it 4 times.....after it occured 1sttime....every other start of windlight and normal viewer gave me the same. Feared my graphic card was destroyed. Then my PC crashed completly (blue screen). After i restarted my PC....everything was ok again. Bye Thanks for the reports on this! So far, all confirmed reports appear to be on ATI cards with VBO on. I've retitled the summary and linking to our internal Issue Tracker, as we've known about this for some weeks, too.
MasterDave: I'm also on a Q6600 and 8800GTS (the 640MB model) and am unable to reproduce this. Please provide more substantial details, and try updating your drivers to the newest stable ones if you haven't yet done so. Just a brief note to say that this behavior has returned under the new WL build released just before the Thanksgiving weekend. It was seen again in my viewer, despite the installation of the latest Cataylst and driver updates on my Radeon 9700 Pro card that were required before the new build would run. Will provide more details and pics when I have more time.
Would like to add for now that a partly successful WORKAROUND seems to be to change the graphics setting to one of the lower-quality defaults, at least while in an environment with a very high prim count or many large items. In the worst instance seen, I was at the Velvet in Romero, and there was a contest to see how many oddball items guests could attach to their various attachment points, so the rendering load was exceptionally high at the time. Moving the camera away from highly complex scenes did not seem to do much to fix the problem once it cropped up. But reducing graphics settings did, and allowed me to continue for quite some time without shutting down the viewer. On a possibly unrelated note, I did see that the avatar impersonators were coming in very handy in keeping the sim and my viewer stable through an event that would almost certainly crashed at least my viewer and possibly the sim and any time in the quite recent past. In light of this experience, it also occurs to me that my suggestion that megaprims might somehow be implicated seems to have less foundation in fact? At least, I realize that there is a highly complex scene behind the screening walls that I've erected in Huineng to reduce strain on the viewer, and the complexity of that scene (an ad farm with a huge jumble of signs, scripted items, and particle pollution) might just as well be the source of the problems as my earlier conjecture related to megaprims. More detailed tech info and selected screenshots to follow. (My earlier reporting on this issue appears under duplicate issue Additional illustrations of bug as it appears on an ATI Radeon 9700-equipped machine, running November's second WindLight viewer release.
CPU: AMD (Unknown model) (2002 MHz)
Memory: 2047 MB OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600) Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc. Graphics Card: RADEON 9700 PRO x86/MMX/3DNow!/SSE2 OpenGL Version: 2.0.7058 WinXP Release LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.12_0000000000) Packets Lost: 628/57644 (1.1%) I have this problem on my machine as well. Disabling VBO is an effective workaround for me to make it stop, however, it greatly reduces my frames per second. To disable VBO, on the login screen push Preferences, go to the Graphics Tab, hit the Hardware Options button, and disable VBO (uncheck it). Ok, I have this problem as well and my specs are as follows:3
Second Life 1.18.5 (74642) Nov 28 2007 16:14:54 (Second Life WindLight) You are at 231862.3, 290569.3, 25.4 in Diegoland located at sim2988.agni.lindenlab.com (64.129.44.7:13005) CPU: Intel Pentium 4 Northwood (2392 MHz) But I think that I have discovered something. It appears to be related to Alpha textures. I keep my hardware settings window minimized and toggle VBO off and on to eliminate the triangles because my fps drops by 75% with it disabled. Anyway, the last standard viewer release, (Second Life 1.18.5 (3) ), I started noticing if "show light radius for selection" was enabled, I would get these textures around the globe that represented the light radius while editing. These were ALWAYS nearby textures that contained an alpha channel. I have also observed that with the WindLight viewer, the triangles would also be covered in textures that were nearby and also contained alpha channels. It was not obvious at first because of the textures applied to the strange triangles could be anything and sometimes the alpha part of the textures were not shown. I have been getting the triangles more frequently and had the opportunity to observe that they were always alpha textures. If you would move very quickly, they would appear, spin around and there they were. I asked a friend if he knew of an area that might not contain any alpha textures. He directed me to one of his builds in Diegoland. There were no alpha textures inside the build, possibly some outside, so I plugged the only opening in the room with a plywood prim. I started panning the camera quickly, spun around and around both directions for 20 minutes. Not once did one of the triangles appear. I can pretty much be convinced that there is a connection with the triangels and alpha channels. Please look into this and the relationship with the "show light radius for selection" introduced recently I would just like to add something. (since I cannot edit my previous comment) This vertex triangle problem almost exclusively occurs in Windlight. I have seen it in a handful of occasions in the regular viewers, but it is never persistent. I have noticed it the most in my avatar's hair which, by the way, is prim and has a lot of transparency in it. The above poster may be on to something. Is there a way to change my OpenGL Version to make some kind of difference?
I have had this problem for some time now (predating windlight) using ATI Radeon 9800 pro.
I can still see this problem in the Dec 4 release of windlight. Maybe it's a little harder to trigger – I haven't tested enough to be sure, except that it's still possible.
My repro: 1. Go to someplace with lots of textures (I went to Sarah Nerd's freebie paradise) The "turn in circles 4 times" didn't work for me today, but that could be lots of things. Here's my specs: Second Life 1.18.5 (74965) Dec 4 2007 19:23:49 (Second Life WindLight) You are at 254586.3, 291716.8, 48.7 in NineInchNerds located at sim4632.agni.lindenlab.com (63.210.159.28:13005) CPU: Intel Pentium M Series Processor (598 MHz) The December 4th release of 1.18.5 (74965) did not fix the triangle problem for me either. Enabling VBO resulted in exactly the same problems as before, and just as rapidly.
Windows XP SP2, ATI Radeon x1300 Pro with Catalyst 7.11 Same problem here too:
Second Life 1.18.5 (74965) Not fixed with the 1.18.5 (74965) release for me, either (Radeon X800XT, WinXP SP2, very recently updated graphics drivers).
With this latest version, I still get the same problem.
I tested in my forest in Lunata which has a lot of alpha textures (if that matters). I noticed the following: Full Screen Mode: takes a couple minutes for it to occur in mouselook or non-mouselook spinning around ATI X1650 512MB AGP: I'm disappointed to hear this is still a problem, and thankful for your reports – we'll investigate these further.
Also have this issue with the latest release. Unlike a few others I have never seen this in the normal viewer at all.
For me it is fixed by opening preferences, sliding the setting to one notch higher, or lower.....then back again, and apply. Running XP SP2, ATI 9600, AMD 2200+, 1 GB RAM 1.18.5(74965) did not fix this issue. I still get the triangle glitches with VBO turned on. ATI Radeon x1650 w/512MB
As of the latest update to the WindLight viewer this glitch still appears. The "triangle glitches" (I believe them to be over stretched geometry), will appear when VBO is active and the camera is moved quickly.
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro I continue to get this glitch on my desktop - decreasing draw "fixed" it for awhile then BOOM back
Second Life 1.18.5 (75173) Dec 6 2007 10:26:10 (Second Life WindLight) CPU: Intel Pentium 4 Northwood (2792 MHz) The December 17th release of Windlight Viewer 1.18.6 (75762) still continues to see this issue. I enabled it, walked around for a few minutes, and couldn't discern any new or different behavior worth reporting. Sorry guys, but it's definitely not solved for me. Is this perhaps one of those things Catalyst 7.12 might fix?
Windows XP SP2 32-bit, ATI x1300 Pro Second Life 1.18.6 (75762) Dec 13 2007 16:08:39 (Second Life WindLight)
x1950 pro gpu 7.11 drivers windows xp. This version is still making the issue although it takes much longer and must have many people/objects to tigger the VBO bug and there is fewer trash objects clogging up the screen. if there is few people i went nearly 40 mintues with out gettng this issue, when the club filled with many avatars (like 15 to 20) the issue came back. Same here, the latest Windlight Viewer 1.18.6 (75762) still show triangle glitches on my system when VBO is enabled. I saw no difference compared to previous versions of the viewer, in other words, I saw the glitches within a minute after logging in. This was in the Ross/Quentin region, with no other avatars in sight.
ATI 9600 Pro, 7.11 drivers, and Windows XP SP2. @ Marcus 17 Dec 6:24pm
Of course Catalyst 7.12 might fix it. Too bad it doesn't exist yet. Still seeing this on my first or second run of WL (75762) since ATI does not appear to have yet released drivers newer than 7.11. Not holding my breath. Disappears if I turn off VBO, though the view is not quite so shiny with VBOs turned off. Thanks for your latest reports, I'll let our devs know this is still a problem for you.
 I would just like to make a comment that I often see this issue on my ATI Raden X850 card even in the normal client. I don't think it's just related to Windlight. I usually only see it when I've been in a session for extended periods, and It's usually a given if I open two clients simultaneously. I've always thought it was due to my card heating up, but that's just a personal theory. And yes I have VBO turned on.
Second Life 1.18.6 (75762) Dec 13 2007 16:08:39 (Second Life WindLight)
CPU: Intel Core 2 Series Processor (2048 MHz) While the artifact problem with VBO enabled is reduced, it's still definitely there. Generally the artifacts are appearing on horizons, and feet, and there's less of them than before. Whereas before the viewer update the artifacts appeared everywhere, and were enough to completely block the screen. Again, disabling VBO removes the problem. I had an x850xt pe edition as the GPU I picked when I first built the machine years ago before I replaced my older machines GPU with a 512mb x1950pro.
The x850xt pe used to do this on older non-beta clients back in spring 2007 or so on the x850xt pe, but then they solved the issue in that client and I never saw the problem on either the x850xt pe or the x1950 pro. I do not see the problem on the non-windlight clients anymore. Both my machines are liquid cooled everything is. The GPU is always maxed at a cold 90F, so it is not over heating. it's not even overclocked all gpu test I ran passed. I gave up air cooling heatsinks years ago for this very reason they did not do a good job of cooling the CPU or GPU. I use the ati machine with my nivida machine to play "2 players" on everquest 2 and there is no overheating signs at all with the liquid cooling ever, it even blows out cold air. MY new nivida GPU machine has never seen this issue from any SL cilent. To many ATI GPU have this so it is a software or driver issue somewhere. The Nivda machine however Is highly overclocked GPU/CPU with liquid colling and it is stable with all SL clients no errors it would be the one to make overheating graphic errors. [UPDATE] We hate this bug too and want to fix it ASAP! We thought it was fixed before but it continues to turn up for some of you. We've gotten good info above, and here's what we need to confirm in order to continue investigating – your help is very much appreciated. In future comments, please:
Thanks very much in advance for helping us to fix this – with the above info, what we are going to try to do is setup similar conditions so hopefully the bug will show up frequently for us to investigate, track down the cause, and fix it. Here's a recreation of the problem:
----------------------- You are at 256649.2, 257501.0, 19.4 in Rua located at sim2700.agni.lindenlab.com (64.129.42.196:13005) CPU: AMD Athlon MP/Mobile Athlon (Palomino core) (1532 MHz) VBO enabled; Set view distance to 256m to increase number of graphical objects. Does not appear immediately; spinning in place shows problem after a few seconds. Also noticed lags/pauses of several seconds each in screen updates with VBO on. Problem is not observed when VBO is disabled. My assumption is that it happens when the VBO buffer fills. Artifacts are usually triangular, and usually, but not always, have one vertex in center of screen (0,0?). Artifacts are disappearing after a period of several seconds to a minute; the scene involves water, so perhaps scene changes cause polygon updates to replace the corrupted ones? Also notice that some textures on more-distant objects remain grey with VBO on; they appear to load, at least faster, with VBO off. This may or may not be related to the problem in question. ATI released their 7.12 drivers yesterday, and I installed them. Good news for me, it seems to have fixed the triangle/VBO problems! In my previous post you could read that I get triangles almost immediately after logging in, and disabling VBO fixed that. Now, with the new 7.12 driver, I can enable VBO again, and everything seems to be working fine.
knock on wood I'll keep experimenting to see if 7.12 really fixed it for me. After upgrading to 7.12, I did see a new problem (bad font rendering in the menu bar), but I won't go into that here... -------- Second Life 1.18.6 (75762) Dec 13 2007 16:08:39 (Second Life WindLight) I just tried the latest 12.20 Catalyst driver and still has the bug. Annoying.
WindLight client is also the latest version. System Win XP Prof, no SP's. CPU: AMD Athlon 2200+ Ram: 768 MB VGA: Sapphire Ati Radeon X1600 Pro on AGP Problem shows only when VBO is on. If turning it on, then not showing immediately, but after a few minutes when playing with the camera and zooming around. Without VBO my frame rate is the half as it should be, good experience... Installed 7.12 driver. Not fixed for me, actually seems worse and I have lower framerates. I don't recommend installing it, I can not even do a system restore to return to 7.11.
CPU: Intel Pentium 4 Northwood (2392 MHz) Just want to add something, maybe it IS important-I had this bug for the first time today with any of the viewers, and it only appeared after I (because I had not thought about that earlier, stupid me!) had activated anti-aliasing manually in the card settings (ATI Radeon X600). VBO was obviously turned on-I have turned it off now, still waiting for the spikes to reappear. (Note: I a NOT using the most current drivers because the last ones that I updated to gave me errors; am still waiting for a fixed driver-everything else is working fine, though, so it's NOT a driver issue here)
Alyx Sands might have come up with an idea. Although his discription was was a little confusing, I decided to disable Anti-Alasing and Anisotropic Filtering with the ATI control panel instead of using the SL client. After doing this, I have panned my camera around like a complete fool and HAVE NOT HAD ANY TRIANGULATION WHAT-SO-EVER.
See pic #1 COMPLETELY STABLE. OMG! OMG! OMG! hehe. Maybe the client is not able to overide the graphic card settings. People, give it a shot and see what happens for you! ( a premature YEAH!) Yrrek, I'm actually a SHE.
I didn't intend to be confusing, it was just that I noticed this issue ONLY after switching on AA and I assumed (quite rightly, apparently) that everyone save me had it switched on anyway. I'm still not entirely sure what the consequences would be-make the viewer kick the ATI control panel? (Metaphorically speaking; some kind of override?!) Sorry Alyx. lol
Everyone can forget my post above. I ran SL for 6 hours not once getting the triangulation. No longer the case. This morning within 2 minutes with all the settings the same, it was back. Oh well! I checked again: Previous settings before the issue were like the attached screenshot-both set to "standard", meaning AA is set to "2". I never fiddled with the anisotropic filter setting. I only turned up the AA setting from 2 to 4, and only then did the spiking happen. I then turned it back down to "2". I have to stress that even with VBO turned on in the viewer, I NEVER had these spikey things before- they ONLY appeared after I had changed AA from 2 to 4.
I'm still watching this and welcoming further details per what I requested above ( http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3258#action_38999
 ) , please keep the info I asked for coming – it's appreciated and needed for fixing this issue.
Has changing the ATI driver settings as suggested by Alyx Sands and Yrrek Gran worked for anyone else? See pictures above. Torley, my solution was only a temporary fluke and made no difference in the long run. The updated ATI driver was of no help whatsoever.
My only solution is to keep the "Hardware" tab minimized and when the screen gets filled enough with triangles that I can't see anymore, I just maximize the window, toggle the VBO off and then back on. I adjusted my settings as Alyx had suggested, and found no improvement. She has not reported any current experiences, with her settings. I have done some testing with alpha textures present and with none present and still believe there is some connection there. There has been no feedback on this for the past week. I can only assume that everyone that has been experiencing this, still has the problem. PU: Intel Pentium 4 Northwood (3014 MHz)
Memory: 1024 MB OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600) Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc. Graphics Card: Sapphire RADEON X1600 PRO (Omega 3.8.421) x86/SSE2 OpenGL Version: 2.0.6956 WinXP Release LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.12_0000000000) Packets Lost: 1/133820 (0.0%) Viewer Digest: ffac34f4-0452-2fcc-16b7-c2868f0923ef I am still getting the issue above with the 7,12 drivers, with the extra that SL will crash out hard at regular intervals, as in at least once an hour. the crashing clears up when I switch back to 7.11 the workarounds such as turning on/off VBO or shaders work for a little bit before it all starts happening again, which I think is mainly just reloading the graphics memory cleanly. I just switched to the omega drivers today to see if they would help any, if anything worse, but at least I'm not crashing every 5 minues grins I have disabled "Render Dynamic Reflections" in the Debug and also disabled "Bump map and Shiny" in the graphics tab. I have had a remarkable change in the triangular patterns. I would guess about a 98% decrease in the event. For what it is worth, lol.
We still need and would appreciate more data to investigate, and hopefully fix this effectively. Please, if you're affected and haven't comment yet, provide the info I requested above, most importantly:
Unfortunately, as much as I wish I could continue to contribute information, I can't. Other problems concerning AGP based cards from ATI forced me to rollback to Catalyst 7.7. I really hope most other people aren't in the same boat, and that ATI gets this stupidity sorted out on all fronts. Good luck, guys!
I seem to be having the same issues here.
Although I am not running a windows or ATI cards. Hardware Overview: Machine Name: iMac GeForce FX 5200: Chipset Model: GeForce FX 5200 The Graphics driver is not upgradable. I still haven't had any spike issues again, but I also can't really contribute anything else as, just like Marcus, I can't use the most recent ATI drivers at all-they frequently give me errors and problems...
Have this problem, including on latest Windlight client.
Second Life 1.18.6 (76886) Jan 3 2008 17:26:44 (Second Life WindLight) CPU: AMD K7 (Unknown model) (1526 MHz) Ok, there is a definite connection between RenderDynamicReflections and the spikes.
I have had this set to FALSE for several days and very rarely get a single spike and when I do, it is small and corrects itself right away. Today, I tested again, zooming the camera in and out as fast and as far as I could. NO Triangles. (This is with VBO enabled) I turned RenderDynamicReflections back on and made the exact same test. Triangles all over the place. Will someone else PLEASE confirm this? Client>Debug>RenderDynamicReflections>TRUE CPU: Intel Pentium 4 Northwood (2392 MHz) @Yrrek: That's good to know. I'm unable to test this personally, but it's REALLY important to understand (if you don't already) that we DO NOT support RenderDynamicReflections at this time... hence why it's buried in Client menu. In the future, it would be nice as an added graphical enhancement, but for the meantime, anyone experiencing this problem should make sure that dynamic reflections are OFF, so we're able to better hone in on causes that we should support.
 I got the same problem.
Thanks to this this troubleticket I deactivated the VBO rendering and now I don't I use Radeon X1650 Pro, with Catalyst version 7.7 I've activated VBO for testing, and as soon as I zoom in or out, I get these strange triangles again Second Life 1.18.6 (76886) Jan 3 2008 17:26:44 (Second Life WindLight) CPU: AMD K7 (Unknown model) (2087 MHz) @Torley: Sorry to disappoint you there, but I never even touched RenderDynamicReflections, and double checked it's turned to "off". I only got the spikes with VBO switched on AND AA set to 4.
This issue seemed solved to me but I am not ready to call it fixed until i hang around for a few days.
Then you guys updated to this new version of windlight. the ISsue has not come but ther eare tons of other problems with my ATI 1950 pro and the new ati 8.1 drivers. No water refecltions... no distortion effects no water like any other windlight version. No water controls showing ... ALpha channels on some scripted objects not now visable at certain distance when they should not be and was before... hardware skining and avatar cloth options are grayed out unable to be used. Was this part of the code removed or disabled? Second Life 1.18.6 (77495) Jan 22 2008 15:30:40 (Second Life WindLight) You are at 211155.2, 300033.7, 20.2 in Drachen located at sim2036.agni.lindenlab.com (64.129.40.40:13006) CPU: Intel Pentium 4 Northwood (3398 MHz) For the time being, we're recommending to stick to the 7.10 ATI drivers – later ones (including 7.12 and 8.1) have shader brokenness and other sad, ugly defects which we're working with ATI to fix ASAP. If you need to download:
» http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/radeonxprevious-xp.html I'm on a Radeon X1800 Mobility with the 7.12 drivers (are the 8.1 a new version?), and I have the sky and glow working (which made me very happy) but like Trice, the hardware skinning and avatar cloth are grayed out for me whereas they were not previously, and there are no water reflections. However, I'm thinking that the 7.12 drivers themselves may be having issues, and not just WL's use of them. I also use World of Warcraft, and since installing the 7.12 drivers, I've been getting the same sort of weird triangle rendering glitches that I was getting on WL. I will say, however, that until I installed the 7.12 drivers, I was unable to see glow or the sky textures of WL.
Still an issue for anyone? Please confirm with the newest, stable ATI drivers – marking as Cannot Reproduce, frequency of reports has dropped.
The problem has gotten worse with Windlight 1.9 for me.
In the previous version, after discovering RenderDynamicReflections was enabled in Debug, I disabled it. In 1.9 the triangulation is back with vengeance. 1.9 is almost unusable for me. OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600) This issue is far from resolved. Reports on the forums of people with the newest ATI drivers experiencing this still.
As for me, the newest stable ATI drivers that don't give me errors all the time are not the newest ones, I'm probably not even allowed to complain....I wish ATI would get their stuff sorted out. I am still having the triangled vertex buffer stretching with my ATI 9700 Pro graphics card. It does this stretching with driver versions 7.11 to 8.1 Catalysts (8.1 being ATI's latest for my card) It only does this for me with the Windlight viewer; I can run the RC viewer with all settings maxed without ever seeing a stretchy triangle. I can run the Windlight viewer in Ultra mode without the triangles IF I turn off VBO in the hardware button's settings within the viewer. Lowering the settings in Windlight to mid/medium and customizing the other settings (lower draw distance for example) seem to be a workaround for the problem, but the triangles still appear occasionally. I have noticed that using the camera controls conjures up this bug the most often. (in windlight only)
CPU: AMD (Unknown model) (2002 MHz) Torley, can you please clarify your quote above "marking as Cannot Reproduce, frequency of reports has dropped". To me that reads as if you closed it because there were fewer new reports, while we are all still suffering from the problem, and waiting (mostly) patiently for it to be fixed.
For the record, I managed to get my hands on some OEM drivers for Cat 8.1 that would work on my laptop, and this issue was unchanged. I don't understand how this can't be reproduced. It's about the easiest thing to screw up I've seen to date. A few textures on screen at once (any packed sim does it in a matter of minutes), a quick pan of the camera (alt+click somewhere else) and that does it. Sometimes it doesn't even take that. Just walking around long enough does it too, and by long enough I mean about an extra 30 seconds.
I'm always checking for new drivers, always looking for new WL updates, and they all give me the same issue. As with everyone else, when VBO is disabled it's not an issue, but two frames per second is, so that also cripples the viewer. CPU: Intel Pentium 4 Northwood (2657 MHz) I'd like to report that the triangle glitch, as of 1.19.0 (79185) (Windlight) is still very much alive and well. I'm on the 8.1 ATI drivers. I have still observed many glitches, and many much bigger than the ones shown here. Sometimes it's like I'm looking at nothing but a huge wall of gitch, and the "triangle" from a certain object may appear to stretch across half of an entire sim. I'm attaching several screenshots that I took tonight with a friend to demonstrate what is being observed. The glitches aren't always technically "triangles" but they are definitely difficult to deal with. Although the glitches seem to occur less often in the new version of windlight, they still happen frequently, and are a hassle to deal with.
CPU: Intel Core 2 Series Processor (1994 MHz) Shot one taken at the station. Screen two taken at the station. (See the screenshots at the top of the page)
Screen three taken at the station. (See the screenshots at the top of the page)
Last screen at the station.
P.S. after reviewing the comments above mine, I'd like to add that I also noticed these glitches a great deal with panning when the camera using alt click and alt-ctrl click. Sorry Torley but I'm totally confused now. Are the 8.1 drivers now approved to use or not? I haven't seen this a lot, but that's because I turned off the settings that were creating it, and have been having trouble running ANY viewer release in recent days. I've also had other priorities though and just have no time for thorough testing (at least not for negative pay). Right now the Alt, Crtl, Shift key chords for camera control are working so badly for me that I'm only using SL at the lowest possible graphics settings. As this may very well be a problem on my machine unrelated to the recent RCs and Windlight builds I hesitate to add input.
But it would be good to know if there are now ATI drivers that are actually compatible with SL. Until i see a really clear statement, though, I'm staying with 7.10 as recommended in your 25 Jan comment just before the vague one of 7 Feb about "most recent" drivers. Please in future offer version numbers for the drivers recommended or presumed stable It's also probably worth noting that Catalyst 8.1 is still causing AGP users grief. Most of us are stuck on 7.7... I've been lucky enough to get 7.10 to work for me for the moment.
Do us a favor, Lindens, since you have more pull with ATI than we do. Tell them you have AGP card users. Please, please tell them to get off their butts and FIX their drivers for AGP cards. There's a special AGP hotfix for 8.1 buried in their knowledge base, but it crashes all over the place. I could not stay on SL more than a couple minutes with 8.1. If I sound frustrated... it's because I am. Hehe. But in this case it's with ATI, not LL. Thanks for reopening this and keeping interest alive – I'll confirm with Team WindLight re: driver versions.
I apologize for the confusion on this. It's fine to be frustrated with us as well, because it's my fault for not following up more with ATI. I had stopped seeing this on my machine for the past few months as well as other folks in the company and thought it was fixed.
ANYONE still getting this bug with the 8.1 drivers, please give me info on what card you have, whether it's AGP/PCIE, and exact steps you took to get this to show up if you can. Am I correct in hearing that this affects more AGP users than PCIE? I have been using the 8.1 drivers with a few ATI PCIE cards and one AGP 9800 Pro card for about a month without any problems in XP and Vista. Despite other minor bugs with 8.1that I was able to feature mask around, I haven't seen the triangle bug since using them. The moment I can repro it consistently I will get this to ATI. I'll also be talking to them in the interim. @Marcus, it sounds like you're having problems with a x1300 AGP card? I'll see if I can get a hold of one and a box to test it on. OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600) Please note that is a PCI buss (not PCIe) Currently using 8.1 drivers but had the same issue with 7.11 and 7.14. When I installed Windlight 1.9, I was using 7.14 drivers. After the triangulation returned, I re-installed 8.1. No difference. There is absolutely nothing that needs to be done to re-create this. Standing in one place, facing the same direction for 10 minutes, everything is fine. No spinning or zooming necessary. Then it almost seems as if someone entering the area can trigger the triangles. Sometimes it is not just triangles but huge sheets of nearby textures covering most of the screen. The best performance that I have seen so far, was with 1.18.6 when the alpha textures would loose transparency at a close distance. I have mentioned earlier, that alpha textures appear to me to be somehow involved in this. When the alpha textures were borked in 1.18.6, the triangulation almost disappeared for me, and from the sound of it, a lot of others as well. see my post: 02/Dec/07 05:52 PM - above. Still seeing this issue just as often as always. For me Windlight is still totally unusable.
Like several others though, I cannot use the newest 8.1 drivers. The most recent stable drivers I can use are the 7.10 drivers. Reproduction is simple. Log in, stand still for less than 5 minutes and watch the ever changing array of triangles. Don't need to move, turn, do anything, just stand there and watch. Second Life 1.19.0 (79185) Feb 1 2008 16:24:20 (Second Life WindLight) You are at 270571.0, 298383.4, 21.8 in Melanoma located at sim2703.agni.lindenlab.com (64.129.42.199:12035) CPU: AMD K7 (Unknown model) (1797 MHz) Second Life 1.19.0 (79185) Feb 1 2008 16:24:20 (Second Life WindLight)
You are at 260055.2, 231977.1, 86.6 in Blackmount located at sim3549.agni.lindenlab.com (64.129.46.60:13005) CPU: Intel Pentium 4 (Unknown model) (3192 MHz) Okay-I did an experiment today. I was still using the old Windlight version until today I noticed the server update had apparently killed my water reflections (I could click and change them, you just wouldn't see them). So I switched on VBO. AA set to 2. Nothing happened. Restarted SL, with AA set to 4 and VBO still on. EGAD, triangles everywhere as soon as I was on line. I switched off VBO in Preferences and as soon as I did that, all the triangles in my view disappeared. So far, so bad-that was what had happened before. I then updated to the newest Windlight and tried the same routine again. NO triangles. But funny enough, enabling VBO slows down my framerate (wtf?) so I switched it off again. but as far as I could see, no triangle glitches. AT LEAST not in ten minutes of camming around like an idiot, whereas in the old viewer they would appear instantly even without camming, and they would appear within a minute. NOW, ALL THIS with an OLDER driver version (as I have said above, I can't even use 7.10 without getting errors)- I still use 7.4, and don't have any problems with it. I got the glitch with the old Windlight version, but not the new one. At least for my config then, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the driver version. I wish people wouldn't insist on recommending the newest drivers as some kind of cure-all. The X600 is a PCI Express card (I think!) Anyone else with an X600 who has news? I should have mentioned that for the brief period I used 8.1, I experienced no triangle issues with VBO on. But I could never use it very long. I did experience a definite progressive frame rate drop with it on, similar to what was mentioned by Alyx. And it was The Windlight client that crashed... not XP or my computer in general. Sorry for not being more specific.
Second Life 1.19.0 (79185) Feb 1 2008 16:24:20 (Second Life WindLight) CPU: AMD K7 (Unknown model) (2104 MHz) @Zen... Confirmed. An ATI x1300 AGP Pro card with 256M of memory. This is not a third party card. I'm using it with Windows XP, SP2, 32-bit, and my current AGP speed is 8x. No extras, no fills. Thanks for your work. @Torley... Thanks for being a diligent liason on this issue. It was requested that those using the 8.1 drivers to try describe exactly how the triangles appear. That's a little difficult to do, as they do sometimes happen randomly. I will be moving/camming around, and suddenly the glitches appear (though as I noted, not quite as often as in previous versions). I did however, notice, that it happens a great deal when I am alt-zooming onto an avatar, either my own or someone elses. certain angles (they don't appear to be patterned or regular) will cause the avatar to explode into a mass of triangles and vertice glitches as seen in my screenshots above. I'm afraid that as of right now, that's about as specific as I can get. I also noted, however, that often the vertice glitches appear to be connecting two objects, such as between an avatar, and a block that is next to it.
I was flying about at Winged Isle, and I had one of the larger glitches occur. I figured I would post it here for reference. The glitches are namely the huge blue sheet you see over the entire left side of my screen, and more transparent glitch over the ocean on the right side of my screen.
Hardware Overview:
Machine Name: iMac GeForce FX 5200: Chipset Model: GeForce FX 5200 DIMM0/J22: Size: 512 MB DIMM1/J20: Size: 256 MB Total memory 768 MB DDR SDRAM I was just at a dance facing the stage dancing (Navy blue dress) and having no issues. A friend just out of frame to my right, (Picture Triangles1.bmp) dancing as well.
As she would come into frame (Red dress), the triangles would appear (Picture Triangles2.bmp). Because she was also dancing, she would go out of frame (Picture Triangles1.bmp). Back and forth, triangles in frame, none when she was out of frame. This went on like clockwork for about 3 songs, 12 minutes or so. I had her make a list of everything that she was wearing and it is available if needed. It was quite obvious that the triangulation was directly attributed to that AV. After that, I could not reproduce the effect again. Second Life 1.19.0 (79185) Feb 1 2008 16:24:20 (Second Life WindLight) I experience 70% performancedrop when enabling VBO with ATI 8.1 drivers.
All textures are blurred no matter what the performance slider is placed on and what texture memory is selected. Turning off Basic shaders makes textures sharp again but shiny object loose their texture and the moon is framed by a gray square. Dirver set to max quality (settings do not have influence on the problems). Second Life 1.19.0 (79674) Feb 8 2008 16:51:12 (Second Life WindLight) Second Life Server 1.19.0.79368 CPU: Intel Core 2 Series Processor (2404 MHz) Update on my previous comment:
I was running the latest 8.1 drivers from the ATI(AMD) website with the mentioned problems, but installing the 8.1 drivers from Sapphires website solved the blurry texture problem and the shiny and moon problem with basic shaders off. The drivers seem to be the same but the Driver Packaging Version differs slightly. This is the one from Sapphire that works better: Driver Packaging Version 8.451-071220a1-057721C-ATI Enabling VBO sadly still means a performance drop of 70% Extra info on this driver/card and the other SL versions: Second Life 1.18.5 (3) Nov 28 2007 13:59:53 (Second Life Release) and No Ripple water Latest version of Windlight gives an example of triangulation in the Upload Texture Preview window, when viewing a texture as a sculpty. Since I have not been uploading sculpty maps recently, I did not notice if this was happing in the other Windlight clients.
The Triangulation is very easy to reproduce by just viewing a sculpty texture as a sculpty in the preview window. Rotate and zoom cause a variety distortions. Windlight 1.19.0.80044 See Picture #11
I find it curious that a supposedly graphics card error would cause these triangles to reflect in Linden water. I have examined the artifacts many times and know that they show up in Render Wireframe, but did not pay much attention to that. These appear to be actual objects although phantom. If were just a graphics glitch, why would Windlight reflect them? Second Life 1.19.0 (80044) Feb 15 2008 16:46:46 (Second Life WindLight) After some more playing around with the ATI 8.1 and 8.2 drivers i found the following: ***UPDATED now inkludes test on 8.2 drivers
The issues mentioned in my previuous comments do NOT seem to be related to if the drivers are coming from ATI or Sapphire but on driver settings (more below) Catlyst 3D Driver settings at DEFAULT values and everything possible maxed out under Graphic prefs. in viewer
Turning on Smooth Vision HD: Anti-Aliasing ("Use application settings" disabled)
Setting Catalyst A.I. to advanced
— CPU: Intel Core 2 Series Processor (2884 MHz) I'm having a similar problem. I don't know if it's caused by the same issue or if it's different enough to merit it's own report. I do not have polygons coming from objects inworld, but I get a black triangle section in the upper lefthand corner of my screen in Windlight when I rotate my avatar, zoom in/out, and when using any alternate camera controls. The triangle flickers and slight movements sometimes make it disappear. For instance, if I am rotating to the left, the triangle flickers fast for the duration and sometimes remains on my display when I stop, but a simple small click in the same direction and the triangle will vanish. But one more little movement and it could be back again. So my assumption is at certain (or random) intervals the triangle appears and when making a solid move this produces the flickering effect (moving quickly through the "on/off" intervals). The triangle is never located anywhere else, it is only in the upper lefthand corner, it does not manifest anything in-world, and is always black. Randomly I will be able to make camera movements for several seconds without the triangle appearing. This does no happen at default camera view when walking straight forward the camera is automatically following. If I try to zoom in/out even from default view, the triangle appears. This triangle DOES manifest in snapshots.
Here are some system specs. I hope these help! Hardware Overview: Model Name: MacBook Intel GMA 950: Chipset Model: GMA 950 Picture Dripping AV (above)
This is from my sisters PC, I don't have the specs yet, wil forward later. I am not sure if this is related to the triangles, and this is the first time I have seen an AV affected. Usually stems from nearby prims. Rebake seems to make no difference, I am standing to the left in a black dress. Notice the skin of the AV and note the position of her head, (not just the hair this time folks), no comments please lol. Has anyone else come across this? CPU: Intel Pentium 4 (Unknown model) (2660 MHz) Just a note on Catalyst drivers as an AGP user... not trying to turn this into an ATI AGP only thing, but seems relevant to this issue getting fixed, so...
8.2 doesn't work. At all. OpenGL apps die a horrible (horrible!) death. I've heard 8.3 is suppose to include the 8.1 hotfix for AGP users... will see. Yrrek, I have the same card as your sister and I have never seen that kind of "dripping" (It SURE looks ugly...)-I saw she has an even older driver/OpenGL version than I have. Has she tried any newer drivers?
Alyx,
I had her try the VBO toggle and nothing changed, she went to High settings, the screen turned yellow and green, she toggled back to Mid, and it straightened out to normal. The same type of fix I use, toggle the VBO off and back on. My framerate drops by 50% with it off. The funny thing about it, it is just the AV's that are distorted, nothing else. This only happened after the latest update.
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Bug
Reopened
Critical
Rendering glitches: triangle glitches, vertex tears, etc. on some ATI cards with VBO on
