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psistorm ikura added a comment - 15/Nov/07 03:24 AM
linked this to my own issue, since its pretty much the same issue
First pic: Noon. Of note: High shiny looks as shiny as before, where I would say the low shiny is too much. Part of this seems to be that Windlight handles the ground reflection differently - pre Windlight, the ground is shown reflected at the horizon line in varrying degrees of strength. Post-Windlight, the ground reflection is instead on the bottom, which is more realistic, but means something needs to be done to the edge of the sky reflection when it needs to transition smoothly.
2nd pic: Sunrise. Subjective opinion here, the ground reflection now is maybe just a bit too pronounced in low-light?
Sunset. Not really any new comments to add except for "oooh, purdy", but I'm going through the world menu presets for the sake of completeness.
Midnight...and ouch! Now things are looking very dull, which is odd considering the bright moonlight on the water. Non-windlight shiny appears to still reflect the ground line but not much sky. Compare to the next screenshot....
This one, taken at night with the "9 PM" windlight preset. The sky is still dark but slightly blue and it shows in the reflection.
THANKS Elle! bookmarks to keep track of
We've already had internal discussions to make this new shiny, well, less shiny for the time being. Feel free to go ahead and add this to the WindLight wiki page as a useful jumping-off point:
» http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Windlight or I'll add it later if you don't get there first! =) I like the new shiny, seems to look right, 'cept maybe on flat surfaces where it's hard to tell if it's shiny without zoming around it a little. One thing that's got me thinking, TORLEY... looks around to see if Torley's listening <.< >.> ...If water can reflect everything... Could shiny objects? Like mirrors? Black cars polished so you can comb your hair in the reflection? Eh? Eh? A'riiiiiight... For that matter, wonder how far off light blossoms, Nimbus Clouds, weather, waves and shiny on Alpha are...
since torley is listening here jumps the bandwagon XD
how about giving us a spinner value like glow or transparency? this way, we can tweak shiny more finely and you may not need to adjust the low/med/high values. this looks like a good idea in my head Yes, I'm listening, Iexo and Psistorm.
 Exciting, isn't it?
And by the way, instead of shorter-term solutions, WindLight Team is thinking about implementing a better "materials" system which would allow builders to retain the "old-skool" look while offering upgrades to a variety of surfaces if they desire. Just like the current WindLight vastly expands what we can do with sky, water & more, this "materials" project intends to give similar flexibility for object faces. More news on it to come as work happens... A real materials system? (Yes, the 3d artist in me knows exactly what that is!) droooooooooooool!
Lexo, there's an experimental mirror reflection-on-object feature (or was at one point) thats only avalible from the debug menu. Last time I tried it my video card (Radeon 9800 Pro) didn't support it but now it's a different story...I should look for it again.... materials? oh my <3
this would indeed be rather on the awesome side. I will definitely follow this closely! Materials - yay!!
I must say the problem for me is a radical change in the appearance - everything shiny looks metalic now. Originally low, medium and high shiny could be used for satiny surfaces, plasticy surfaces and metalic surfaces respectively - now they ALL look metalic or glassy. part of that is due to the high quality of the reflections, but high quality reflections is not what you always want. The sharp filmy appearance obsucres the textures underneath much more than in the older client - except at midnight, where due to low sky reflectitivy shiny surfaces can appear unreflective. Whilst the new shiny is lovely to play with I feel that it too radically alters the look of current builds. Either tone it down on the low end so it looks more like satin and less like glass, or bring on materials The shiny is much to stong now and it was stong before there is no way to make a organic or wet surface type shiny and now it looks to much like chrome shiny even at low. Plastic objects now look like metal and you can not set it back.
There should be far more option to adjusting shiny during building than low, meduim and high only. You should be able to fine tune the shiny effect to set building needs in this version since the shiny rendering is not the same anymore. Lets say I want to make a shower floor and make the tiles look shiny wet with a light shine too it low looks to much like chrome and that is my only option. Or I want to make a wet organic fish reflection like say a dolphin if i set l"ow shiny" to this dolphin the way are now it will look like a "robot dolphin" made of metal. I should be able too set more reflection types on objects since the water refelctions in windlight are so much better and can reflect objects around it the pixel shader code seems to be there for it in windlight. The shiny rendering really needs to be set by the people as needed per object and have much more than the 3 options they have now for it. The problem seems to be that the windlight "skybox" doesn't have the contrast of the old one, so using it as an environment map for shininess leads to bad results.
How about just keeping the old environment map around, since it doesn't change that often and could be updated infrequently, and using that as the default environment map for "shiny"? It would be better to have the map out of phase with the world than to trash shininess. The shiny is too much strong,but what i realy hate to se is the blue reflection of the sky on shiny things...cars ,watches,jewelry, look very bad.
In closed SL ambients a blue reflection is not realistic,.....please consider a back return to standard grey shiny. Anthony, shiny has always used the sky as the basis for its reflection - this was an issue last time LL did an update to the skybox too.
At one point I made a suggestion (https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2254 All I know is that I had black boots with shiny black detailing you could barely tell from the black boot and now I have black boots with very shiny blue detailing. Yeah it's cool, but not what it was supposed to look like.
Whilst I agree that some objects can now look far too shiny, it is also true that at the Midnight setting objects look completely matt but as you have mentioned both extremes I've linked my issue to yours: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3294
 Rather than simply returning to the old, or keeping the new, why can't we have both. Extend the shinyt choosing box to 6 levels of shine, spanning both the old and the new behaviour.
Uploading a comparison picture of the shiny wall at bug island.
Left is the release viewer. Right is the new fixed shiny in the internal WindLight branch. Top to bottom: noon, sunset, midnight. Don't forget to let us apply "materials" settings to our avatars as well, so we can make fur look, well, like fur, and not like painted skin. Ever since the shader upgrades the "glossiness" of skin has increased to the point where sometimes it looks plastic.
Hmm. Well for me all the shiny has now gone transparent (like glass) and the inner texture of each object is what is displayed. So I can see right through anything that is shiny - not completely transparent but kind of shiny window transparent with a slight suggestion of texture. And shiny pose balls are all invisible. Very strange.
Elizabeth: that's a seperate known bug - see VWR-3172 and its ilk.
Keeping this Meta-Issue open for further discussion and other shiny stuff –
» http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/12/04/super-cool-new-windlight-first-look-viewer/ And very nicely fixed might I add...BigPapi's screenshots don't really do proper justice, ya gotta see it in-world.
On to another meta-issue for me. The new shiny is better, but it's still too shiny for marine mammals, and it also even in the lowest setting ads a pale "wash " over the object, as if it had been dipped in batter.
In the lowest setting, the shiny effect should be a gradient, so that areas with no reflections or highlights look identical whether they're "shiny" or not. The "chrome wash" effect really should be restricted to the highest setting. This has been fixed for a while now. About majority of the responses have been that it now looks perfect (individual bugs that crop up from now on, such as invisiprim - shiny related ones, should be separate jira tasks). Since those who think it still doesn't look good are evenly split between it still being too shiny or now being too dull, this is as solved as I can make it.
My problem isn't the "level" of shininess, but the style... it leaves the object looking as if it was dipped in milk. At the lowest level of shiny areas that aren't hilighted should be the same color as without shiny.
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Meta Issue
Resolved
Normal
Meta-Issue: WindLight: Bringing shiny on par with non-WindLight viewer (and beyond)
