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Issue Details (XML | Word | Printable)

Key: VWR-3111
Type: Bug Bug
Status: Resolved Resolved
Resolution: Won't Finish
Priority: Major Major
Assignee: Unassigned
Reporter: Gennifer Meredith
Votes: 17
Watchers: 11
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1. Second Life Viewer - VWR

WindLight: ATI drivers and Basic Shaders incompatibilities (e.g. 256-color banding)

Created: 14/Nov/07 09:33 PM   Updated: 11/Jun/09 10:54 AM
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Component/s: Graphics
Affects Version/s: First Look: WindLight
Fix Version/s: None

File Attachments: None
Image Attachments:

1. Basic Shaders1_001.jpg
(145 kB)

2. Basic Shaders1_001.jpg
(145 kB)

3. Basic Shaders1_002.jpg
(187 kB)

4. Basic Shaders1_002.jpg
(187 kB)

5. Basic Shaders1_005.jpg
(259 kB)

6. Basic Shaders1_005.jpg
(259 kB)

7. Low Color Shaders.jpg
(146 kB)
Environment:
CPU: AMD (Unknown model) (2062 MHz)
Memory: 2048 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: ATI Radeon X1550 Series x86/MMX/3DNow!/SSE2
OpenGL Version: 2.0.6956 WinXP Release
LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.12_0000000000)
Packets Lost: 110/251253 (0.0%)
Viewer Digest: dadcde93-7357-bc40-b2b8-516d5239e365
Issue Links:
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Linden Lab Issue ID: DEV-6124


 Description  « Hide
With a previous version of the Catalyst GPU drivers, enabling the Basic Shaders causes Second Life to immediately crash. Even checking the Basic Shaders box causes the crash. Updating to 7.10 drivers resolved that issue.

With Basic Shaders enabled, many textures, clothes, the sky, clouds and I'm not even sure what else appears to look like it's set to 256 colors. Please see attached photos. Note that hair and eyes seem to be normal, that the trees and such seem to be normal, and the water, at least the surface at depth, seems to be normal.

I've tried different settings in the new graphics window, from Ultra all the way down to the Low, and the problem does not seem to resolve itself, or show any difference. I've set different reflections, different levels for the sliders, and just basically tried everything.

Turning the Basic Shaders off returns things to normal, but of course, you lose most of what Windlight is all about.

I like Windlight, I'm astounded by it, but right now, without those basic shaders functioning correctly, it's useless to me.

This is my first JIRA submission, so if it's wrong, I apologize



 All   Comments   Change History      Sort Order: Ascending order - Click to sort in descending order
Marcus Gray added a comment - 14/Nov/07 10:27 PM
Same on ATI X1950 Pro (Catalyst 7.10)

Second Life 1.18.5 (73655) Nov 13 2007 12:57:54 (Second Life WindLight)

Second Life Server 1.18.5.73200

CPU: Intel Core 2 Series Processor (2394 MHz)
Memory: 1024 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: Radeon X1950 Pro x86/SSE2
OpenGL Version: 2.0.6956 WinXP Release
LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.12_0000000000)
Packets Lost: 0/1128 (0.0%)
Viewer Digest: dadcde93-7357-bc40-b2b8-516d5239e365


Myla Soothsayer added a comment - 15/Nov/07 03:53 AM
Unfortunately, I too am experiencing this issue. I am using the latest drivers from ATI as of this writing.

Windows XP Pro SP2
ATI Radeon x1950 PRO 512
2GB RAM (Dual-channel)
AMD AthlonX2 4800+


Xenox Shriner added a comment - 15/Nov/07 08:13 AM
Until now almost everyone I know that uses ATI seems to have this issue
It is not limited to official drivers either, Omega 3.8.421 as well as Omega 3.8.270 caused this for me too

Second Life 1.18.5 (73655) Nov 13 2007 12:57:54 (Second Life WindLight)

CPU: AMD (Unknown model) (2010 MHz)
Memory: 1024 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: RADEON X800 Series (Omega 3.8.421) x86/MMX/3DNow!/SSE2
OpenGL Version: 2.0.6956 WinXP Release
LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.12_0000000000)
Packets Lost: 101/96903 (0.1%)
Viewer Digest: dadcde93-7357-bc40-b2b8-516d5239e365


stimpy tripp added a comment - 15/Nov/07 09:46 AM

Hi:
I found that disabling Catalyst AI worked for me. Could someone verify? i.e. under CCC, setting everything to the highest settings, I see the '16 bit colour mode', if I click the 'disable Catalyst A.I.' checkbox, and go back in, the colour bit depth appears normal to me.

Hope it helps...
-Stimpy

Second Life 1.18.5 (73655) Nov 13 2007 12:57:54 (Second Life WindLight)

You are at 258793.5, 261498.9, 646.6 in Anilis located at sim832.agni.lindenlab.com (66.150.244.77:13006)
Second Life Server 1.18.5.73200

CPU: Intel Pentium 4 (Unknown model) (3391 MHz)
Memory: 3071 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: Radeon X1900 Series x86/SSE2
OpenGL Version: 2.0.6956 WinXP Release
LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.12_0000000000)
Packets Lost: 72/12331 (0.6%)
Viewer Digest: dadcde93-7357-bc40-b2b8-516d5239e365


Ajira gallindo added a comment - 15/Nov/07 09:59 AM
Disabling the "Catalyst AI" does indeed seem to fix the problem on my Radeon X800!

Yay !


Marcus Gray added a comment - 15/Nov/07 10:23 AM
Seem like the bug appears (for me) when Catalyst A.I. is set to Advanced.
Works fine with Standard.

Chotaire Seelowe added a comment - 15/Nov/07 11:59 AM
Does anyone have a fix for Omega Drivers v3.8.421 (Catalyst 7.10)? In the tray, I can select Catalyst A.I. to Off, Low or High.. nothing seems to make a change.

Chotaire Seelowe added a comment - 15/Nov/07 01:10 PM
I was unable to get this to work with the latest Omega Drivers. So I entirely uninstalled them, installed the Catalyst 7.10 drivers, disabled Catalyst A.I. in the ATI Tray Menu et voila, everything looks fine now.

So Omega Drivers people, it just doesn't seem to work. Use the standard Catalyst drivers. If you can't, then beg the devs to fix this.

Have fun!


Gennifer Meredith added a comment - 15/Nov/07 07:11 PM
Yes, the Catalyst AI seems to be the issue.

I turned it off, and nothing changed, but I needed to restart WindLight, and it's wonderful now.

Thank you to all those who found the answer.

Gennifer


lufpleh obstreperous added a comment - 16/Nov/07 05:41 AM
Think you can add ATI RADEON XPRESS 200M Series to the list of cards with the Catalyst AI problem.

As soon as I put a check next to Basic Shaders box I get a crash.

Unfortunalty I'm going to miss out on Windlight for now

I'm using a Toshiba laptop so cant download Catalyst 7.10 from ATI to turn off AI and asChotaire says, nothing appears to change if you turn AiIoff in the Omega driver.

Any ideas would be welocmed

Second Life 1.18.5 (73655) Nov 13 2007 12:57:54 (Second Life WindLight)

You are at 255835.1, 255667.1, 38.7 in Georgean located at sim2873.agni.lindenlab.com (64.129.43.115:13004)
Second Life Server 1.18.5.73200

CPU: Intel Pentium M Series Processor (1592 MHz)
Memory: 767 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: ATI RADEON XPRESS 200M Series (Omega 3.8.421) x86/SSE2
OpenGL Version: 2.0.6956 WinXP Release
LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.12_0000000000)
Packets Lost: 0/2515 (0.0%)
Viewer Digest: dadcde93-7357-bc40-b2b8-516d5239e365


Chotaire Seelowe added a comment - 16/Nov/07 08:35 AM
After enjoying Windlight for a while, I found out that other Direct3D applications would blank my screen when using the standard Catalyst 7.10 drivers, leaving me no other option than a cold reset. This ofcourse is a driver issue not related to SecondLife, but It leaves me with the fact that for my X850XT I had to re-install the Omega Drivers thus breaking Windlight's color depth again. With other computers I am using, e.g. my Notebook running a OEM-modified Radeon 9600, my only option is the Omega drivers aswell, since the standard Catalyst drivers would not identify the card properly. So I rather abandon Windlight than the other Direct3D applications which I need to use.

Why I am writing this? I consider this Windlight issue CRITICAL due to the fact that not everybody has the ability to disable Catalyst AI as needed by this version of First Look. This serious bug is to be fixed so that Windlight will run in full color depth even with Catalyst AI set to advanced, and also when Omega Drivers (necessary for several chipsets and OEM-modified boards) are in use. Please do not release Windlight before this is fixed. I would also like to note that even when disabling Basic Shaders, performance is significantly worse than with the release version of the Second Light client.


Torley Linden added a comment - 16/Nov/07 12:06 PM
Thanks to each and everyone who chimed in on this; keep the feedback coming, we treasure it. I infact helped several Residents yesterday by telling them to turn OFF Catalyst A.I.. I'm not that familiar with ATI but Chotaire's note does concern me, so I'm importing this for closer inspection by Team WindLight.

Snippet from our office hour yesterday:

[2007/11/15 13:20] Lillyann Chaplin: Quick note... the colorbanding is also present without the AI... on a x850
[2007/11/15 13:21] BigPapi Linden: Lillyann, try setting all your graphics settings in the ATI control panel to "let the application decide" that also solved it for someone else.
[2007/11/15 13:22] BigPapi Linden: Lillyann, the banding is usually a driver issue caused by the driver degrading the shader quality automatically for performance reasons.

General advice
========-

  • Your system NEEDS to at least meet our System Recommendations to see all of WindLight; pardon, we can't guarantee it otherwise (note that RADEON XPRESS isn't supported there) – http://secondlife.com/corporate/sysreqs.php

Trice Beam added a comment - 16/Nov/07 11:45 PM
the x1950 pro and other ATI x1000 series seem to have many issues see link...

Abyssin Otoro added a comment - 18/Nov/07 09:08 AM
ATI's Catalyst AI has some problems with some specific edge case coding. There are some work-arounds that the end user can do, but they can cause other problems, esp. in other programs. The only real fix is to find the code that is triggering this edge case and fix it.

Work around #1: Turn AI off. (This does not seem to always work, and not everyone can turn it off)
Work around #2: Turn the Open GL texture preference to "High Quality" (or the highest setting that you have, above Quality). A side effect of this is that you will probably get lower framerates in all 3D applications and games

REPO: (On a working system, well after I actually tweaked Windlight to work, see VWR-3272 to see what I have changed and why I needed to).

  • Use Windlight in a working state, then exit.
  • Go into the Graphic's card control panel, and under Open GL (or in the CCC I think they are all in the same place), find the "Texture Preference" and turn it down a couple of levels. I turned mine down from "High Quality" (the max), down one to "Quality"
  • Start Windlight again, and confirm that you have the problem, if not, try a lower setting for "Texture Preference" (I expect that higher end cards might need this turned down further to get the banding effect).
  • Exit Windlight and repeat the "Texture Preference" change, but this time turn it back up to what it was.
  • Restart Windlight and confirm that things are back to normal.

Khamudy Mannonen added a comment - 19/Nov/07 06:04 PM
I'm having the above trouble and the suggested tweaks, re: disabling the Catalyst AI, do not seem to work. I've checked my card specifications and according to the details sent by the manufacturer it should support the level of Shaders used in the Windlight client up to Shader 3.0.

CPU: Intel Core Series Processor (1666 MHz)
Memory: 2047 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: ATI Mobility Radeon X1400 (Omega 3.8.421) x86/SSE2
OpenGL Version: 2.0.6956 WinXP Release
LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.12_0000000000)
Packets Lost: 0/19524 (0.0%)
Viewer Digest: dadcde93-7357-bc40-b2b8-516d5239e365


deedee deepdene added a comment - 20/Nov/07 02:02 PM
Graphics Card:Radeon X1900 Series

Another workaround is to turn off renderglow in client.....cant see the results of building your new glowy objects but if that's not top of your priority list then windlight works well.

Client Menu / Debug Settings - type in renderglow and set to false

DD


Paolo Bade added a comment - 20/Nov/07 02:58 PM
Yes, definitely Catalyst AI turned off solved on X1600 Mobile too

Roken Price added a comment - 24/Nov/07 09:03 AM
OK - X1950GT showed the same banding problems, which I fixed by changing OpenGL Texture Preference to High Quality. Having confirmed that it works, I reset my generic GFX prefs to Tecture Preference Performance, and set up an ATI Tray Tools profile for Windlight to turn HQ on when loading the program.

This works well for graphics quality in game, but breaks preferences. Running with the ATT profile and then opening preferences in the viewer will lead to the preferences window opening empty apart from the tabs at the side. Clicking any tab will immediately exit windlight and dump me back to the desktop.

The workaround ATM is to load windlight without the ATT profile, change prefs from the login screen, then quit and restart using the ATT profile. It works, but is damn inconvenient.

Using the latest (7.11) Catalyst drivers.

As an aside, windlight seems to want to run in full screen mode regardless of the prefs setting.


Guy Goodman added a comment - 30/Nov/07 07:30 AM
X850 Pro and 7.12 Catalyst drivers, disable Catalyst A.I. and the banding goies away. Thanks for posting this guys, I am now over the "WTF are they doing this looks like crap" reaction to WindLight.

CPU: AMD K7 (Unknown model) (2204 MHz)
Memory: 1024 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: RADEON X850 Series x86/MMX/3DNow!/SSE
OpenGL Version: 2.0.7058 WinXP Release
LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.12_0000000000)
Packets Lost: 1/11922 (0.0%)
Viewer Digest: 090eed8f-a28e-b50f-f712-507acc68c04f


dint talon added a comment - 30/Nov/07 04:02 PM
I just wanted to say, I have an x1300 Graphics card and I turn off the Catalyst A.I. off and all my problems are resolved with the banding. I look forward to the time when I dont have to turn this off. Keep up the good work. Windlight will really be awesome once it is completed! I keep missing the sessions hopefully I will be on one soon.

Darien Caldwell added a comment - 06/Dec/07 10:53 AM
I have the same issue on my ATI Radeon X850 Platinum 256meg card.

CPU: AMD (Unknown model) (2408 MHz)
Memory: 2048 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: RADEON X850 Series x86/MMX/3DNow!/SSE2
OpenGL Version: 2.0.6479 WinXP Release

However, None of the mentioned fixes for ATI settings work for me. No matter what, the only way to get rid of the banding is to turn off Renderglow as deedee mentioned.


deedee deepdene added a comment - 18/Dec/07 06:28 AM
Hmm dont know if this a new thing or already covered.

WindLight First Look 1.18.6(75762
os - xp pro sp2
graphics - ati radeon ati x1950
driver 7.11
processor - intel duel core 2,66 ghz
ram - 4gb

as previously mentioned if I set renderglow to false all tickety boo exept for glowing objects obviously
With new windlight release and aforementioned set. Hi res snapshots now come out with colour banding....arrrrrrhhhhhhh!!!!.
Given that taking sl pictures is pretty much what I live for here anyone with a workaround or solution deserves a medal.
Thanks in advance
DD


deedee deepdene added a comment - 18/Dec/07 02:12 PM
scrap previous comment
Reloaded ati catalyst suite and driver....snapshots back to normal......weird

Fixman Clary added a comment - 10/Jan/08 08:43 PM
Turning the Catalyst A.I. off also worked for me (Radeon X1300 Pro). WIndlight looks fine now!

Torley Linden added a comment - 16/Jan/08 08:32 AM
Thanks yet again for your reports. We currently consider this issue a "Someday Maybe" (a status that exists internally but not on the public Issue Tracker), and here's a condensed version of what Brad Linden found after investigating:
  • It appears that the cause is that we're doing the final glow additive blend using register combiners. Catalyst AI appears to be "optimizing" this blend by reducing precision.
  • We couldn't find any obvious way to hint to the gl implementation not to shortcut this register combiners blend. The only other workaround that came to mind was to replace the register combiners blend with a shader blend, which seems like overkill, and may have undesirable performance characteristics on other platforms (i.e. maybe nvidia is doing the same optimization but not messing up).
  • We recommend the workaround of TURNING OFF "Catalyst AI", which also has a benefit because enabling it "degrades quality for benchmarking purposes".
  • Unfortunately, we're unable to officially support Omega and other third-party drivers because they may contain modifications we can't vouch for, and suggest you contact your computer manufacturer if they're not providing the latest drivers with stable, expected quality.

jiranto akina added a comment - 17/Jan/08 03:51 AM
Only after updating to the latest 7.12 drivers did this start happening to me.
I'm using an X800GTO, if it matters.

Maybe rolling back your drivers would help.


Vandalite Defiant added a comment - 03/Feb/08 12:31 AM
I was able to get my version of Windlight to look proper with my X800 running Omega 3.8.220 drivers by setting up a game profile under the ATI Tray Tools application. There are just two things you want to make sure of. Switch the OpenGL profile Texture Preference to High Quality, and disable the Catalyst A.I from the 'additional' tab to Off.

The solution is essentially the same, and since it's a game profile used only for this executable, the setting modifications don't affect your other applications as long as you set the option to "restore previous settings after game's end."

I can post more detailed instructions for Omega Driver users if need be.


Vandalite Defiant added a comment - 05/May/08 07:21 PM
The newest driver stack (the official ones) seem to have resolved this issue. I am now able to use the latest Windlight RC without setting a custom driver configuration profile. Perhaps it was fixed by Radeon?