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"Network traffic meters" are something that need to be seen in the basic user interface by a tiny fraction of the population.
The vast majority of the population requires a functional, easy-to-see search box and navigation. It would be better placed in the center of the browser. However, the basic uselessness of this box is that it defaults to SEARCH ALL. It should have a drop-down menu that enables the user to pick People, Places, etc. like the equivalent of an amazon.com search. Search should not be cluttering or confusing the area near chat which is busy enough. I couldn't say any better. The new search bar isn't so useful that it must stay visible all the time. To be able to access it with the Search button is already enough IMHO. If you really want to keep it here, make it switchable because I'm more interested in the network traffic... and the Statistics Bar is way too big to stay permanently on any screen.
You say, "Network traffic meters are something that need to be seen in the basic user interface by a tiny fraction of the population."
A tiny fraction? Like, everyone outside Linden Labs home LAN, and everyone in the LAN visiting a region in the Dallas data center, who has ever wondered why they're suddenly lagging. If anything, they need to expand the traffic meter to include ping times. You say, "The vast majority of the population requires a functional, easy-to-see search box and navigation." That's what I'm proposing. You say, "Search should not be cluttering or confusing the area near chat" Search is already IN the area near chat, and it causes more clutter where it is... in an area that's got less room to spare on clutter. The problem is that it defaults to the horrid search all, which does NOTHING to help you find what you need quickly. May as well put the Google button in there too, "I'm feeling lucky."
There are perhaps two orthogonal issues here:
i) get rid of the search box The meters could be restored whilst retaining the search box. I certainly feel that the meters need to return - although I'm less bothered about whether the search box stays or remains. Support this .. since I also seemed to have duplicated it ..
But note there are two separate issues:- i) Loss of the network/traffic meter which I regard as v. important .. since it is normally the first clue you have of crash-by-loss-of-connection and the 'lag meter' is so ...... sub-optimal ii) Inclusion of the Search Bar .. which I care less about although it is ugly and largely useless and vaguely reminiscent of Google's 'search bars on every window' philosophy. I think an option to disable it would be sufficient.
The solution of using the chat bar for search is quite workable though, and sounds good. It's redundant to the search button that is already on the UI. What difference does it make, really? Do people really need a magnifying glass icon in front of them to know they can search? If that is the case, put the stinking magnifying glass icon on the search button. Give us back the packet loss/bandwidth meters.
1 - We all know how to access the search. And if I'll be using the new "All" search a lot, it will be my default tab. So, press CTRL+F, type the word, press ENTER. All keyboard. Why would I bother going with mouse to open the search, or click the search box and then type. Swithching from keyboard to mouse and back to keyboard is just too slow to be useful for a serious user.
2 - The damn search box up there just doesn't fit into the GUI design. It's ugly. Sorry. 3 - I understand you want some visibility for the new feature. So, all you need to do is reset the "last tab used" to be "All" on installing/first use of the version that introduces new search. And test it, so we wont complain it resets all the time As for the meters, yes, I want them back and also extended in the future, to serve as a mini lag meter. The one we got is just too big and clumsy to use all the time. It can remain, it gives hints, but not metrics. The meters should provide some metrics and be there all the time. I will provide a design for expanding the meters in a new issue. And clicking the meters should open the lag meter. Argh, what happened there?! .... Is there any way to edit or delete a comment?
oh mama, please do not take my stat bars away from me....... pleas please
For me the statsbar is the first thing to look at when i experience a slowdown. The LAG meter introduced in 1.18.4.3 was a fine add-on. The lag meter included ping times to. Why not put the functionality of the LAG meter in the right upper corner? Who needs a search option in the titlebar? menu edit > search can get you there Why promote a search function that half of the times does not find what you'r looking for? Patch attached to
how about the search bar in place of blue search button?
And if you dont want to type anything in you use the keyboard shortcut Ctrl-F as usual? That leaves more space on the menu bar... for the packet loss and badwidth display Again, do we really need a search bar? Unless the search bar has built in functionality to filter by categories, having that thing default to the useless search all is not going to help.
Another vote for the search not being on the tool bar, it looks too much like IE7 (vomit). there's a search window for searching, that is all that's necessary.
Definitely put the lag meters back, and preferably remove the search, or at the very least make it user configurable. Most people – the overwhelming majority of users – do NOT know NOR case what the green/red performance bars are about. Those that faintly care don't need to see it every minute of the day like a rabid geek. They can just get the stats from ctr--shift-alt-f1 which are a fuller report anyway or the lag-o-meter now in the client.
I'm not at all a fan of the search box at all defaulting to ALL. I agree with Cristalle Karami that the worst thing is that this button doesn't resolve to categories. The Lindens have never mastered the basic message of their own search – they can't seem to hear it! People after a time develop the custom of using the tabs. They use them like amazon.com to sort the kitchenwares away out of the books and electronics. It's just that simple. I think SEARCH ALL is the worst feature of the search, is geek-driven, and is unfortunately an unfair amplification of the way most geeks use the SEARCH ALL, instead of doing what most non-geeks do (the majority) which is to press on the search button, and THEN go to tab – like they do on amazon.com, instead of google.com SEARCH ALL now produces such an unholy mess – even bug reports to the JIRA and townhall transcripts have been thrown into this kitchen sink, not to mention the new gaming of it: gadzillion little parcels cut up with objects put to sale on them, separately, to fill up search and get noticed. BUT if we must have this search all box, better to put it off to the side and never use the fact that the lag meters are covered up as a rationale for this. Most people don't use search. Most people don't use ctrl-alt-f1. Most people don't use the lag meter. Most people don't use beacons. Most people don't use debug menu. Most people, for that matter, don't ever log on to Second Life more than once because they can't figure out how to get off the bloody island. About the only thing that "Most people" do, at least the ones who log into SL more than once, is ask how to make money.
Most people, for that matter, aren't reading this Jira page. Let alone posting comments on it. Most of the ones who are, however, DO seem to be aware that the subject of this page isn't "Meta-issue: New search interface". Created "Meta-issue: new search feature" as SVC-1011. Go wild.
[UPDATE] Thank you for all your feedback (votes, comments, and more) on this. I just wanted to share we've heard you loud and clear and are going to work on addressing the related hot issues of "Bring back Bandwidth And packet loss meters" ( Exact implementation yet to be determined by our Search Team, but this is to acknowledge your comments in advance! Torley, I'm puzzled by your response – you've heard some people loud and clear who want to remove the search box completely and you appear here to be endorsing the removal of the search box in favour of the wonky stats.
Let me point out that the very first thing the Sheep did when they revised and simplified the viewer for mass use was make a Search box on the viewer, prominently placed at the top, so that the page looked like Google. They removed the stats. Having the search button down on the bottom of the viewer means that new people never see it. I have to constantly explain to people where it is. There isn't such a use case of "everybody knows where search is". They don't. New people especially coming into SL don't have a really easy, intuitive place to find search. There really is no use case to be made whatsoever for the bandwidth and packet loss bars as those are not required by the vast majority of users, and can be accessed in other ways. I fail to see why the vast majority of users who don't care about stats are the ones who have to "just know" how to find something and make several clicks, but the tiny minority of users, who are far more conditioned and able to make multiple clicks, get to have an arcane information box served on a silver platter. Makes no sense. I would prefer search were a button as it is now, without a Search All box, just because Search All so mightily sucks and produces such vast piles of kasha. I'd much rather have Search lead to a series of tabs, including All for those who think it will produce something, with "places" and "people" and such displayed as on amazon.com pulldowns and the LL search before 1.8.5. Argent, most people do use search, once they can find it. The majority of sales in Second Life come from search. Let me repeat that also for the benefit of the Linden dev team who seem unpersuaded by this, thinking incorrectly that classifieds make most sales: Most of the sales in Second Life come from the $30 search. All you have to do is poll any reasonable batch of representative users across time zones, countries, etc. and they will tell you this. I know this from having a lot of customers and a lot of time and having assiduously recorded where the sales come from. Anyone in business knows this is the case. While some smaller number may make sales exclusively from word of mouth or classifieds, search places accounts for the overwhelming number of sales. The sample the Lindens used for this test and SL Views responses from one resident who cares about live music events just aren't enough of an analysis of the engine of sales in this world. In fact, it's the failure to recognize that most sales come from the $30 search that is at the heart of a lot of problems with search, i.e. the mixing in of all the $50 classifieds into all search results. "There really is no use case to be made whatsoever for the bandwidth and packet loss bars as those are not required by the vast majority of users, and can be accessed in other ways. "
This problem report isn't about those bars. This PR is about the search box. If you want to argue about the bars, take it up in the appropriate place. "Argent, most people do use search, once they can find it. The majority of sales in Second Life come from search. " Prokofy: the people who are buying that stuff are still not "most people". You completely missed my point with that "most people" bit... and that is for just about anything in SL "most people" don't do it. So when you attack ANY feature because "most people" don't need it, you're missing the point. That argument applies to just about everything in SL, up to and including the whole SL economy... because "most people" aren't involved. Thats' ALL my "most people" comment was about. That's it. I'm not putting "search" down. If you still think I'm attacking search, I'll make it simple for you. I'm not. I use search, too. If you want to discuss the details of search in an appropriate PR, I'll be happy to engage you. We probably agree on a lot of the problems with search. Getting back to the topic, though, this isn't "every problem with search". this is "how to fix a bad UI design". If you can come up with a better design that keeps search as prominent as you want, then let's talk about it. Go back to the top, read the subject line, and think about what it says, because that subject line is what this problem report is about. "Search box in menu bar should be removed, moved, or made optional." You don't want it moved or removed, I got that. How about making it optional?
If that's too easy for a newbie to accidentally hit, how about?
No?
Still too easy? Someone might hit "ctrl shift d" by accident? OK, how about?
THAT obscure enough? That hard enough to hit by accident? Will that satisfy you? Making it optional should cover it. It seems that both will need to be optional. Well, let's wait and see what LL come up with.
I wanted to make one comment. A newbie that enters SL definitely does not need search the moment he/she arrives. One needs to learn a few things to start loving SL. Currently SL takes it so far that there is no Help. I haven't found any. Whatsoever. Finding people and talking to them works. Takes a bit more time, but, it's a part of the experience. OK, some Help is needed. And I would rather see it to be smaller but well targeted than all-encompassing. It's also easier to maintain. Things will keep changing. Where is Search in all this story? If the search is the first thing you get, I bet it won't return what you want a newcomer to see. Not even what a newcomer wants to see. The old one didn't and the new one won't. Let a noob find the search on his/hers own terms. Don't push it. There are other ways to show someone around. Those present didn't work for me, but, hey, it can be worked on. Search will not do it. But yes, I will be happy with a debug setting. As one of the Linux users, our client renders the textures much slower than the Windows and Mac counterparts, even on very fast fast machines. The bandwidth and download meters are essential to knowing when it is safe to move without continuously walking and possibly crossing over a sim border.
There could also be an option to move around the objects like one is able to move around the HUDs. Kazunori... could you post that comment on
People don't know where search is? That is ludicrous. It's not as if the user interface is written in 7 point font. Do you mean that they cannot read past the words Communicate, Friends, Fly, or Snapshot? I will say it again. If people REALLY need a magnifying glass to know they can search, put it on the Search button prominently, since people do not seem to respond to letters these days.
"...unlike browsers the input area isn't busy with an "address" that you would need to preserve"
I'd like to see a functional address bar where you could enter recent locations, sim names and landmark names! That would be cool. I'd like to be able to type something like "//thing" and bring up search on that thing, making the chat bar the address bar.
Probably the best approach would be to add things like "search" to the things you can trigger in gestures. All I'd like to add is a question to the design team for the Search feature:
If you're going to do a Search in-world, you're going to have the Search UI open anyway to view the results, so isn't the Search Field in the upper left, not only redundant, but a bit useless? ~Jessy Two and a bit months after Torley's comment that it's going to be taken care of, and nothing has been done. Can we have an update on this?
Search box is optional in 1.19.1. Thank you! Resolving "fixed".
The option for "show search panel in overlay bar" is missing again in the RC
As well as "use system color picker." These have been entirely replaced by the "rating selection" option. They have been moved to the Advanced>UI menu. If you do not hae an Advanced menu, you can activate it with Ctrl-Alt-D.
Please see Release Notes/Second Life Release/1.23 - Additional UI Changes: Preferences Changes
Thank you : ) see issue Oops. Thank you. They keep doing that to me. o.O
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Bug
Resolved
Major
Search box in menu bar should be removed, moved, or made optional.
I think your suggestion is far more elegant.