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Lex Neva added a comment - 15/Nov/07 09:33 AM
Wha? I know there used to be a "Show IM In Chat" option, which was essentially what you want just with its sense inverted. Is that gone now?
It's "Include IM in chat history", but un-checking this option does not prevent the IMs to show in the chat itself.
He's right Lex, there's no way to turn it off of the main screen right now.
Voted for it on the assumption that this is really hide IM in "Main Window" (as Gigs also assumes) and not in Main Chat (as Lex assumed and the title says). It is not clear from the Description whether is does mean Main Window.
woo. Yes. This is incredibly annoying.
YES! This annoys the hell out of me, and was one of the first things I wanted to patch once the source was released. Well, it seems I never got around to it.
Is there any reason for this to be optional? Whats with the compressed patches? Seems rather unnecessary. @Seg
It is optional in the sense that you can disable or enable this feature from the Communications tab of the Preferences menu. The patch is bzipped because I always bzip all my patches and I'm too lazy to bunzip them just to post them here... ;-P What I asked is if there was a reason for this to be optional. Scroll down to the "Standing up to user pressure" section of Havoc's UI essay, it seems quite applicable here:
http://www106.pair.com/rhp/free-software-ui.html Get it right, don't add another preference. Added a patch for 1.18.5.x and 1.18.6.0RC versions.
@Seg
I like the IMs to show in the chat console when I want so appreciate that it is optional. I like this patch alot, especially that I can choose to turn off IMs while I RP or am talking intently to someone and turn them on for general use. Definitely keep it as an option in the preferences.
Attached a patch for the v1.19 series of viewers.
I have this issue in the latest RC and it's odd. In the normal client, I can uncheck ""Show incoming IM in Chat Log" and it also keeps them from showing up in the Local Chat window. No so with the RC. As I make frequent notecards of various RP'd stories, it's a royal pain to have to edit it all out.
Wouldn't a better setting be to change "Show IMs in Chat History" to "Show IMs in Chat" and have it hide IMs in the main chat console as well as the chat history window? Is there any reason why you'd want to show IMs in the chat console but not chat history, or vice versa?
Barring any popular objection, I'm going with McCabe's suggestion of making behavior consistent between the Near Me (chat history) window and the background console.
I saw that this patch is still not part of v1.22... Well, here is a new patch for v1.22RC0, which associates "Include IM in local chat" with the hide (or rather show) IM in chat console. The setting is therefore unique for local chat (AKA chat history, not to be confused with chat log), and chat console. I renamed this coupled setting "Include IM in Local Chat and Console" for clarity.
The change is already in QA - it would be surprising if it doesn't hit the 1.23 viewer.
Soft, why not add it to the current 1.22 RC than wait for another? I understand if the RC is nearing its release that you don't want to add something in that might break it. But it just seems odd how fixes always have to wait for the next RC which will end up talking another month usually before it goes to RC and another one afterwards that. It seems patches are getting forgotten because they are waiting for a new RC then get missed
@Garn - a lengthy QA cycle is the norm for all low-priority changes. Increasing the risk of breaking existing features significantly outweighs the cost of waiting a while on new ones. While this is admittedly a low-risk change, if we start making decisions patch by patch, it will slow down our QA people even more.
I soooo need this
Being part of big groups with a lot of chat usually either means having to close the group IM or give up on regular chat (or open windows for both which takes up a lot of screen space). This is in Second Life 1.23.0 (117724) Apr 17 2009 21:19:23 (Second Life Public Nightly) but it is all or nothing, un-checking Include IM in Local Chat disables IMs from displaying in both Chat History and the Chat Console, instead of giving us a flag for each. I for one liked having IMs in the Chat Console an not Chat History
 I agree with Harleen, I like seeing IMs in the chat console, but not in the local chat history, I would like this reset set or a new menu added as soon as possible.
I have a few groups that tend to get noisy while I'm scrolling back in local chat, trying to sort through that mess will be a pain, but turning off IMs in local chat will make it hard to keep up with things I strongly agree with Harleen and Raymond. I get a lot of IM's from individuals and groups. I want to be able to decide whether to respond or not without having to open a new window every time to check what has been said.
The new default behaviour should be the same as the previous default behaviour – i.e. IM's appear in the Chat Console but not in the Local Chat History tab. By all means have options to turn it on and off in either place, but changing the default behaviour from one version of the client to another is bad design and annoys people. Having thought about this issue further, I'd like to add a couple more comments:
1) There are separate tabs in the Communicate window for individual/group IM's and local chat. What point is there in having an option to display IM's in the local chat history tab AND the relevant individual/group tab? 2) The current implementation changes the default behaviour. I totally understand why some people want to hide IM's from the Chat Console and they have made the case for this well. However, this ignores the silent majority of residents who are used to things being as they are now with the mainstream client. We had a similar thing last year when the Tools menu suddenly disappeared unless you selected something. There was an arguable case for doing it, but it was done without considering the impact on people who don't follow the blogs and the PJIRA, and just download a new mainstream client when it becomes available. People do NOT like nasty surprises when they "upgrade" something. My proposal would be to rename the option "Include IM in Local Chat" to "Show IM in Chat Console". By default it would be checked (for backwards compatibility), but those who don't want IM's displayed there can turn it off. This would lose the ability to see IM's in the local chat history tab of the Communicate window, but as I have said, I can't see any purpose for this. Argh! I got the RC with the "new" feature added and I have to admit it put me into a new sort of hell. I know that sounds a bit extreme, but my life in SL tends to be like Torley's. I log in to that cacaphonic "brrrring" of IM noises. As the day progresses, there is the constant bing of a new IM and now I'm forced to get to the window to see who it is and what they want. An important IM from a friend when un-noticed in the collection of people who say "hi" and stop there.
Summary: Where's the checkbox that says "work the way it did since time immemorial?" Sounds like "popular objection" (see my October '08 comment above)
I'll either revert this, or see if we can bless an exception to the "no new preferences" rule and expose both settings individually. While I dislike a lot of the changes in the 1.23 viewer, especially the new pie menu arrangments, the hide IM in main chat is a function I really like. Often there are group chat I'd like to follow, but a lot of group chat makes it almost impossible to follow regular chat, shown in the client. If you do decide to revert this, please consider making an advanced menu option to keep IM's from showing
@Soft
This means reverting to my first proposed patch, with separate settings. but please, do keep this feature as IMs in the chat console are a real pain in the a** for role-players... After a few conversations, there's internal support for Lamorna's suggestion. The setting would only control the background chat display, and the chat history window would never show IMs, regardless of the setting. People would need to use IM tabs to see group/friend chat. The default behavior would be as before - no IMs in the chat history window, and IMs in the chat background.
Would this make people more happy? Proposition is very much acceptable
I can't care less about IMs not being logged into the chat history, but my guess is that after the change is done, you will find people coming here to complain about it... So, if I were you, I'd rather keep both settings separate.
Okay - checking this in so the setting only controls the background console, defaulting to on. IM is never copied into the "Near me" floater.
Thanks for the feedback / refinement, peeps. eeew Yuck! I miss my IM's in my near me
but then ive alwaus got it ripped off and floating because its much more maneuverable then the background one.. @ least make an option for both of them Soft.. its like its only being half done @Soft regarding Garn's comment
You can't say I didn't tell you... Please REVERT this change. its broken and DOESNT work!
IMs NEED to be in the near me. Even in roleplay admins rely on proper logs to be able to resolve issues (knows having twice been one), and allot of dancers and people that get massive amounts of ims rely on it in the local/near me window to be able to make sure they don't miss anything. soft this had less then 30 votes. it shouldnt have been implimtented AT ALL. if its not broke don't mess with it! @Cummere
Beacuse you do not like it does not mean others don't... The first implementation I proposed did allow to set both IMs in chat history and console independently from each other. The current implementation in v1.23 does not allow this and this is why I suggested the original patch would be applied instead, allowing both the old and new behaviours to coexist and making everyone happy... @henri:
to sum up what im seeing all over jira and in groups and in admin chats im providing one concise quote from another jira: considering how many jiras there are AGAINST this change now and how many people are complaining about it in world.... I have to state that those that like this change are far outnumbered by those that dislike it No ding wouldn't have anything to do with this JIRA, when that comment was made there was still an IM to Local Chat option, the 'IM Received' button has never shown up when the communication window is minimized.
@henri - We have to go through major hurdles to justify new preferences. We've got a mandate to reduce the intimidating (to casual users) array of preferences. If I were programming the viewer just for myself and my friends with years of SL experience, the preference panes would be twice the size they are now.
I'm seeing enough unhappiness that I'm inclined to change everything back to the way it was in 1.22, and put the option to suppress console IMs in debug settings only. What did I tell you...
Mob rule wins once again in Second LIfe. Am I the only one who sees the utter absurdity of putting IMs in something literally called "Near Me"? @Cummere
I can understand people getting pissed off because of a change in the way the viewer used to work for months (if not years), and this is the very reason why my first patch did use a different setting to disable IMs in the console (not touching to the chat history which already had its own setting). However I cannot understand why you seem so adamant to prevent any change that many people do want (and yes, even 20 or so votes are far from negligible for an issue on the JIRA: many patches are implemented that don't have even reach this number of votes... This is due to the complexity of the JIRA itself and on the fact no advertising is done for the mundane user about what issues exist in there). If the original patch is applied, then you will get back the IMs in the "near me" floater: you will be happy, and the people not wanting IMs in the chat console will be able to disable it as well and will be happy too. @Soft The preferences menu is indeed crowded, but this is not a reason to refuse new useful (and wanted) features... I would be all for a "beginner" setting in the viewer, allowing to hide the most obscure or specialized preferences. Implementing it as either a debug setting or an option in the Advanced menu is better than nothing, but frankly, the IMs in the console bothered me since day one on SL (and I did search for a way to disable them, even though I was still a newbie), and I'm apparently not the only one... @Seg Absurd or not, removing a common feature from the viewer will always make old timers very angry... I know what I am speaking about, since I created the Cool SL Viewer out of the frustrations resulting from the savage changes LL did to the UI in v1.18.2... Also, to be perfectly honest, you must remember that before v1.18.2, the "Near me" floater was actually named "Chat history", making it less absurd (since chat can happen both in public chat and IMs)... Yes,. IMs in "near me" is oxymoronic. You either don't put IMs there, or rename it.
Suggestion: Two tabs, "near me" and "everything". Near me only has nearby chat. Everything has everything, nearby chat, IMs, etc. No preferences, just two tabs to click on, it's much more intuitive to have two separate, visible, tangible objects with differing behaviour than to have one object with a behavioural state hidden away in a preference dialog. Anyone messed with WoW's chat boxes? They have their own preference dialog, with a list of checkboxes for what you want to show up in that window. Putting preferences in independent preference dialogs attached directly to the object they effect is a much less confusing and overwhelming way to handle preferences than mashing them all together in one massive dialog. For now, we'd not implement anything as bold as a new tab in the RC. I sure do like that 'near me' vs 'everything' model, though. Maybe that's worth pitching on the sl-ux list.
Don't know what viewers you are all using but it has not been the "Near Me" tab in quite some time, since 1.19.1 it has been "Local Chat".
Here, here's a quick mockup of a possible UI for an "everything" tab. If you're going to have checkboxes, just put them right there on the object they effect. No need for "preferences", think direct manipulation of distinct objects instead.
At any rrate, "Local Chat" doesn't make any more sense than "Near Me" as far as putting IMs in it.
linking this becuase may residents have noted that the blinking and the audio signals and the "im recieved" notificatiosn aren't working.
Final outcome on this:
The old option to display IMs in the Chat History (window) is being preserved, but as a debug setting. It's removed from preferences. If it was enabled in 1.22, it will remain enabled in 1.23. The new option to suppress IMs in the Chat Console (background) is remaining in the preferences, and defaults to disabled (IMs shown) to be consistent with the 1.22 default. That's what's committed, and we've got a request in with QA to accept this as a way late RC tweak. I'm hopeful (but not certain) that it will be in the next RC. I find this new behavior incredibly annoying.
Fixed in 1.23.4, released on 06/15/2009.
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New Feature
Resolved
Major
Add a setting to hide the IMs in the main chat.
