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Issue Details (XML | Word | Printable)

Key: VWR-2905
Type: New Feature New Feature
Status: Open Open
Priority: Normal Normal
Assignee: Unassigned
Reporter: Aodhan McDunnough
Votes: 77
Watchers: 7
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1. Second Life Viewer - VWR

Confirming sale of land (additional transaction security)

Created: 29/Oct/07 07:38 AM   Updated: 20/Oct/08 09:33 AM
Component/s: Land
Affects Version/s: Other (please specify in issue description)
Fix Version/s: None

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 Description  « Hide
The Problem: The land-sale dialog provides enough security to protect a land-transfer transaction, but because some people are lazy, lax with security, or simply are unaware of the dangers, they are getting scammed out of their land (1L for 4096 sqm for example) by landbots that pick up their land in the middle of their transactions.

We have two approaches we can take: Education or Prevention.

Education hasn't been working because the information does not reach the right residents in a timely manner. This often is caused by a resident simply not reading tutorials and other info outside of the grid, or even just a simple lapse in judgment. At any rate, things are learned too late, when the land is lost.

The Proposal: A confirmation dialog sent to the seller upon purchase of the land. Through the dialog the seller can refuse the purchase attempt.

Details of Proposal:

1. The dialog appears to the seller upon an attempted land purchase and requests confirmation by the seller. Dialog presents in larger bold font to the seller that <buyer> is purchasing your land <specs> for <price>. Approve / Decline?

2. When the seller posts a sale a fixed timer starts running. Should a sale take place within the timeout period (can be maybe 10 minutes up to a few hours depending on design) the seller is presented with a confirm dialog (if he's online), and an email (whether he is online or not). He may confirm the sale (data are all presented), via the dialog or by #3.

3. The email can be used to accept immediately or refuse the sale via links that open to a webpage with confirmation links or buttons.

4. The ability to refuse the sale remains until the time runs out (default response is according to #7), or the sale is accepted, or sale is refused.

5. The timeout keeps buyers from having to wait days for a confirmation of sale. The problem of land swooping (stealing) happens generally when both seller and intended buyer are online. It is for them that the explicit purchase-confirm dialog is provided.

6. modification (see comments below) was already integrated into #2.

7. On the SELL LAND dialog (not this confirm dialog) we can have an option where the seller can select the default response (approve sale / decline sale) to a sale that takes place during the countdown period but is neither approved nor declined by period's end. "Approve sale" would be the option most real estate dealers would select. "Decline sale" would be for those who want extra security in a land transfer. Default would initially be "Decline sale" but the client will remember any changes in setting for use in future sales.

Idea by Tyche Shepherd and Sarah Nerd, with inputs from myself, Fade Languish, Khashai Steinbeck, Joshua Nightshade, Oeironaut Escher, and Tess Whitcroft



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Aodhan McDunnough added a comment - 29/Oct/07 09:17 AM
Additional item on input from Oneironaut Escher

6. (modification to #2) The timeout begins running upon posting of the sale offer rather than upon purchase attempt. This way long-standing sale offers (typical of big real estate brokers) are considered confirmed sales to anyone.


Ann Otoole added a comment - 01/Nov/07 10:20 AM
There is no need to support bots at all so no need for a default timeout. The seller must manually confirm the proposed sale is accepted.
MIA land owners can just miss possible sales because they don't feel like keeping up with their account(s)/land.
The sooner automated bots of any kind that masquerade as a legitimate account are made a TOS violation the better.
If LL wants to support bots they need to make a special account type for bots and give parcel owners the power to deny any interaction of any kind on any object in the parcel or the parcel itself.

Aodhan McDunnough added a comment - 02/Nov/07 03:14 AM
@Ann
If you're versed on the technical matters you will realize that bots are not an issue of support nor policy and cannot be eliminated. The SL client is already open-sourced and primitive bots existed even before that. Whether we like them or not, they're here to stay, and they will be able to do anything that doesn't require human intelligence and discernment to perform.

In the absence of actions that require human intelligence there is no automated way to distinguish human from a bot, hence the idea of special account types and policies would never work. In an MMO I was in a lot of work was done to combat the onslaught of bots but what happened was bots became more and more difficult to spot, more difficult to catch, and there were increasing numbers of humans that were being tagged wrongly as bots. It takes a human to catch a bot, and even that is not foolproof.

Bots cannot be eliminated but we can prevent the damage they cause. This is why a bunch of us at SL Universe forums crafted this proposal.


Aodhan McDunnough added a comment - 02/Nov/07 03:21 AM
@Ann (addendum)
The timeout is not a bot support specification. It is a specification for big landowners and land-dealers to spare them from having too many confirm windows to click for land that's deliberately listed as being purchasable by "anyone."

Aodhan McDunnough added a comment - 05/Nov/07 08:17 AM
Additional item on input from Tess Whitcroft. Does not directly address the main problem but it does add some more security and more flexibility in Land Sales

7. A checkbox and timer setting that will allow the seller to cause the sale to time out. That is, if the land does not sell by a specified time, the sale gets canceled.


Aodhan McDunnough added a comment - 05/Nov/07 08:23 AM
Above item #7 is not for the confirm dialog but the basic sell dialog.

Yichard Muni added a comment - 05/Oct/08 04:50 AM
Please also see MISC-1016 for a more general discussion on bots and their possible mischiefs.

Yichard Muni added a comment - 17/Oct/08 12:47 AM
MISC-1016 was closed "won't finish" by Linden Labs. MISC-1016 was on the same topic that this one, but more general, about all the problems and abuses which could result from bot uses.

So if I understand well, this means that Linden Labs officially renounces to any policy about bots and their uses.


Aodhan McDunnough added a comment - 20/Oct/08 09:18 AM
Note to admin: requesting clean up of off-topic subthread. Thanks.