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Ann Otoole added a comment - 04/Jun/09 10:59 PM
This defect is unchanged and remains in Second Life 1.23.3 (122084) May 28 2009 21:01:25 (Second Life Public Nightly).
Easily reproduces for me.
Second Life 1.23.3 (122255) May 30 2009 13:13:41 (Second Life Release Candidate) Built with MSVC version 1400 CPU: Intel Pentium 4 (Unknown model) (3200 MHz) libcurl Version: libcurl/7.18.1 OpenSSL/0.9.8j zlib/1.2.3 Ann - To prevent this issue from being identified as a duplicate of VWR-12987, I recommend you attach a different set of images showing the problem you've described.
if someone starts an edit war I will file endless abuse reports to get rid of them from the Jira like other people have been removed.
Go watch the video. Yes you have to go download it. Harleen confirmed it. Now go fix it. Edit: Rather than deal with the pjira edit war people i went to the other issues and deleted the images in those since this is clearly a separate defect. In this issue there are no alpha involved, and zooming the camera in does not change whether the links are displayed or not, so this is not a duplicate of VWR-12987. I have left a necklace rezzed at the Hippotroplis Theater <238,28.23>. With 1.22.11 all the links rez no matter what RenderVolumeLODFactor, this setting only effects the level of detail. In 1.23 it also causes certain links (the links are sculptie prims) not to rez, the same links do not rez for everyone.
There are 173 prims in the necklace placed at secondlife://Hippotropolis/238/28/23 and most of the prims are detailed, high resolution sculpties. The large number of highly detailed sculpties has exceeded a recently added limit on the maximum number of vertices that the rendering engine will process. When the limit is exceeded, the renderer stops rendering any later vertices. The skip vertices could be from the same object or any other object in the scene.
Aside: vertices are the "corners" of all the prims we normally talk about. High resolution sculpties have more vertices than most other prim types, so the issue may be more noticeable with sculpties. The workaround for this problem is to reduce the number of high resolution scrulpties, or to adjust one of the debug settings "renderMaxNodeSize". The default value of 4096 for renderMaxNodeSize causes some portions of the necklace to disappear when zoomed. Incresing this value above 6000 displayed all the elements of the necklace. (You might have to wait up to 30 seconds after adjusting the value to see any effect. Be patient.) Referring to the source code for the viewer...The following lines were added to the "LLVolumeGeometryManager::rebuildGeom" method in the "indra/newview/llvovolume.cpp" source file between revision 1760 and 1817. When the limit set by renderMaxNodeSize is exceeded these statements cause the renderer to skip the processing of any later prims. The skipped prims could be from the same object or any other object within the scene. Guess what? It was perfectly fine before you touched the code. Thanks for the juvenile snotty comment.
The reactive portion of my comment has been deleted. Sorry about that.
We try to provide useful system for the greatest fraction of our user base possible. The environment of computers and video systems is constantly changing, and we're constantly trying to keep up with it. "Fine" for you is not "fine" for someone else. In particular, everyplace we try not to have limits ends up getting abused and frequently is used for griefing. We must continue to define hard limits where necessary in order to make sure that our system scales not only across an ever-increasing user base but also across an ever-increasing range of capabilities in graphics cards and computers. We simply can't stand still. Occasionally, imposing such limits will break a tiny fraction of existing content. I'm sorry such things have to happen, but they do. What if this turned into a feature request to connect this setting to the graphics quality slider and have the cobbled 4096 vertices for the low/useless level and work it up to 8192 on the ultra side?
I am split on it. Right now this setting does not get whacked if i change the settings as I frequently do (go to absolute max on all settings including hardware options) for product photo shoots. What is going to happen is people will be setting the level up anyway because this breaks a lot more content than you realize. So whatever you thought you would gain is simply going to be overriden anyway. All it does is makes you people look like you do not know how your product is used. And griefing? You are calling jewelers and people that make complex geometry (stuff that actually makes Second Life look impressive in spite of the decade old graphics technology) griefers now? We make SL look good and we are griefers now? I'll take griefingly good looking SL over that blocky junk pile on zindra any day and so will most everyone else. I'm not sure you guys are in touch with your customers. Oh did you know people still connect with only 1GB memory when the viewer needs 1.3gb on top of the operating system to run at an acceptable level? Maybe you need to hard code a memory check and begin culling out the people and institutions who can't afford to be in a 3D environment. Ann, what Q's talking about is something different than what you're presuming. Breaking your stuff is an unfortunate consequence, not the goal.
*presses reset button* Hey, I wonder what would happen if someone modified this to be more adaptive based upon current frame rate or a timer or something? (...admittedly, something to that effect would probably also be a small new feature, with its own JIRA issue.) Jesus hell. LL is so out of touch it's unbelievable.
Thank you, Q and Darv, for continuing to prove our point. Between this ruining most of my attachments and the laggy, buggy, resource hogging new viewer pushed out before it's really ready because you're all too assbackwards to keep the wailing minority of PG players in their own ghetto and instead opt to ruin the experience for everyone else I'm about ready to call it quits, two and a half years and several thousand dollars later. I understand the frustration and I'm sorry the released renderer broke content. But please, let's try to keep things civil so that we might get something more acceptable to you in the next release?
This is clearly unnacceptable. Unpredictible, random, and breaking content, this issue causes more grief than actual griefers.
I sell some period wedding dresses with huge numbers of sculpties. The buyers are told in advance that they are very high prim but if its worn on a private sim then I don't see that as irresponsible - the bride is supposed to be special. As part of the gown, parts of the avatar are invisiprimed out and a corset with a more acceptable to the period 45cm waistline added, also created with sculpties. Now it's one thing for the sculpties to lose level of detail on some viewers but another thing altogether for them to disappear. Also there is no way of knowing what setting guests are using. Weddings are always complex events and some lag is expected and tolerated so as to get a beautiful scene, Thus this is broken and needs fixing urgently.
how on earth could this issue have been downgraded to "nice to have"????
Not all of us who play on SL are builders and scripters. Many of us are here for the social aspect, and only have the most basic grasp of how the game is built and how the graphics work. If I hadn't gotten a notecard about this, I wouldn't have had a clue what was happening to my view or how to fix it. It bothers me to read the comments here that seem to assume that everyone affected by this should have known better, and if your stuff is ruined, "tough". Please reconsider making these adjustments, rather than punishing those of us who didn't know what we were buying could cause trouble.
Am I right in thinking that this not only affects sculpts, but also dense sets of so called "tortured prims" or microprims that generate higher numbers of vertices (like sliced, beveled, drilled, twisted and spun torii)?
Ann's suggestion to tie the threshold to the graphics quality slider seemed quite sensible to me. I would love to have a choice, and the graphics slider is a good place - definitely better for non-tech-savy users than the debug settings. If you continue to add hard limits in place of options, as this issue clearly represents, you will find many of your users deciding SL is an option, not a hard limit.
Why couldn't this have been added as a slider like Ann mentioned? Adding it as a hard limit and making US diff the code to figure out a debug setting fix is indicative of what you're constantly being accused of... ie not understanding your playerbase and shoving changes down our throats. Please... please... when you are changing things... think first, do we shove this down their throats by making an option a hard limit or do we work with our userbase and make options actually optional. This is happening in my viewer looking at tiny prims (tortured and non), sculpties (even simple round ones and oval ones) and other prims, regardless of the number of prims.
ONe necklace has 170+ prims, it happens. One necklace has 60 prims which are just rounded, irregular shapes (think fresh-water pearls, or rocks), and it happens. I'm not a sculptie expert, but I have to wonder how a rounded pebble is considered "excessive geometry". It's fine and well that I, after seeing this, could go into debug settings and "fix" this myself so that I am able to see my own jewelry products as well as the amazing creations of others the way they were meant to be seen, but it doesn't change that I've already received inquiries about the jewelry I create and sell "missing prims" and not looking right to the residents who have purchased it. As a shot at being proactive, I have now created a notecard with this 'workaround' and have sent it to my subscrib-o-matic and have put it into every one of my jewelry vendors, but I'm sure there are residents who still won't read it, who didn't have the benefit of it when they purchased jewelry from me or others, don't speak my language, or who won't be able to effectively understand how or why to change this on their own viewers. I'd like to know, all witty banter aside, if LL actually plans to "do anything about this" or if only the very small percentage of people who actually see this JIRA are going to be privy to the "fix." I think at the very least, somehow advising the average user when they upgrade to 1.23 would be a very fair thing to do in order to keep the users from contacting the content creators regarding "broken" items. Reproduced and I believe the priority of major is too low.
As a part time jeweller, I have to suggest that the "fix" provided was completely inadequate.. taking a quick hack at the code to improve framerates when we have a whole slew of sliders and buttons to do EXCACTLY that smacks of expediency.
This change should be removed and a properly designed scaled solution linked to the "object" slider should be implemented.. I know Q and crew are good people.. I've spoken to them often enough.. but they can't take such tought-free solitions to problems such as this... Q.. You know there are better ways to solve this.. and another 60 minutes of coding effort could have avoided the whole issue and noone would even have known A slider with a persistent from session to session details setting would neatly solve everyone's issues by putting the control of how much detail is or is not rendered.
Please empower your users to control this setting easily instead of requiring us to hack the "registry" via debug. Make the default setting of the control a part of the Recommended Graphics Settings tests on initial start up of the client for the first time and call it Good Thanks, I know of one person that is actually having more visual lag in 1.23, so whatever was done to 'fix" the framerate basically had the opposite effect. This, IMO, should be a performance slider option, not a debug option. I understand variances in hardware, I thought that was what the performance settings were for? Restrict the things that might be causing framerate drops on machines with low system specs, and let those with high end systems be unaffected, or even allow for higher settings if they can take it.
Suggested fix for this and similar rendering issues: I have been regularly and consistantly reproducing this since I first noticed it back in May (see plurk comment on it here: http://www.plurk.com/p/wl5a6
 ). It caused me to stop using the RC viewer when 1.22 was an option. We no longer have that option.
This issue basically breaks ALL of my products, and will be the end of a very successful SL business unless it is fixed, not just for me but for the other jewellers whose technique involves the use of tortured tiny torii and sculpts (ie. almost all of them). Whatever the change is supposedly a solution for, it is NOT ACCEPTABLE. You will lose some of the best content creators there are if you continue with it (and yes, I include myself in that). STOP BREAKING OUR WORK LL appears to be on a downward spiral these days. Shoving half the grid to the ghetto, while the goodie goods change the rest of the grid into "Pleasantville", breaking the pie chart cuz noobs are too stupid to read, apparently. i mean c'mon. exactly what good is rearranging stuff on the pie chart as far as making it more "user friendly" ..the only users that will find this "better" are the people that have never played a day in their life ......and it screws the rest of us who've been here for years and have it coded into our brains where to click. Taking away the camera sliders (smoothness, transition time, etc.) so that now a percentage of the grid feels like barfing when they play cuz it gives them vertigo (I'm in debate over this one also.) And now, yet again, they cater ..not to the loyal residents, but to griefers I hate griefers as much as the next person, but how many griefers have you seen buy a 250 prim necklace and drop it on a sim (assuming you could actually find one with build turned on), then say HERE COMES THE LAGGGG! *eye roll* FFS LL ..get your heads out of your butts plz. You're killing the grid with all this needless, totally pointless, and ridiculous (did I put enough descriptive words in there?) crap that you're using to "improve" with.
/me waves byebye to most of the jewelry creators if they don't fix this crap. ..don't worry guys, the rest of us will be along soon. There's a parallel conversation about this going on the open source dev list here - https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/2009-June/thread.html#14450
. There's a (brief) description of the original exploit, the change in the code that was made to avoid it, and some suggestions for improvements. I'm just curious - these people whom this "improvement" is meant to help... Are they even running systems that meet the minimums? Or is this another case like with moving the adult content.... Changing things to accommodate those who shouldn't even be here. (Yes, I am still of the opinion that the adult issue is all about protecting the illegal kids on the grid.)
The comments I have seen thus far tell me I am not alone in my thinking that the good folks at LL need to get out and find out who the customer base really is. This world would not exist if it were not for the CC's. (Content Creators) They are the ones who really built the place. Them and the other type of CC's - the Cashflow Creators. It's Friday - is it payday at LL? Take a good look at that paycheck folks... Where do you think that money came from? Did it come from the noobs and freebie mongers? Or did it maybe come from the people who actually spend money here, spend money on the kinds items the new viewer breaks. Please LL - get in touch, and get a grip. I am an Estate Manager for a fairly large development, and I can honestly say that we have had more problems by far that were caused by LL's ham-fisted attempts at improvement than have been caused by griefers. Just like every other virtual world I have been involved in, the people running the show have no clue what the wants and needs of the users really are. And to Darv Linden.... Destroying things as a by-product is known in some circles as "collateral damage". And FYI - collateral damage is considered unacceptable. This is supposedly our world... If that is true, then before you muck up anything else in my world - how about taking a some time to see what this world really is? It really does go beyond Orientation Island you know..... While it makes sense to make it easy to speed up SL for those who aren't on high-end hardware, it also makes sense to give each user full and easy control over whether they want to sacrifice speed for quality. I am on a pretty old laptop myself, and there are many occasions when I want quality rather than speed. Usually I set my performance sliders much higher than what is recommended for my system, because I prefer a pretty experience to a fast one.
The fact that it can be worked around by adjusting a debug setting is not sufficient as most users would simply assume the products are broken rather than digging around in the debug menu. Connecting this issue to an existing performance slider, or adding another slider, would seem like the most reasonable option. That way, the default setup would be suited to each user's system, and it would be easy to change for those who want more speed or more quality. I think this is simple. If this problem isn't fixed, the jewellery designers will leave SL and they will be the first of many. Please get this sorted properly (i.e. not via a debug setting).
Given the potential economic impact (loss of content creators) and inability to sell / wear most jewellery designs, this issue should be upgraded to 'critical' status. (Not related to Ann Otoole).
I fight for every prim on my sim in order to be able to build the environment I want and to keep rez time down. Sculpties are only a partial solution because they add considerably to rez time. Each piece of land has a prim handling capacity related to area. Is it possible that the restrictions on exorbitant jewelry are an attempt by Lindens to level the playing field? Perhaps the dictatorial actions by Mr. Linden are an attempt to restore balance without actually saying that prim limits on temporary prims are just as necessary as prim limits related to land ownership. Jewelry is important but deserves the same consideration for resources that the rest of us endure. I think the best solution would be to not only have the slider, but also gradually reduce the LOD of prims and avatars, and only if after reducing the LOD of enough highpolycount things the polycount is still high start to unrender certain things
Sadly it's not just jewelry that's affected by this stupid move.
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-14196 Thanks LL, you've destroyed a months work. AnnMarie Otoole,
"I would hope my efforts are not being squandered on a visitors jewelry with 170 prims each." There should be room in SL both for those who want low-prim bar stools and those who want high-prim jewellery, and I don't think LL should be in the business of "levelling the playing field" except for possibly making it possible for sim owners to impose limits on those who visit the sim. AnnMarie:
I suspect we'll see you somewhere in SL, on your sim or on someone else's, going bald then? Bald and accessoryless, no belts, no jewelry, no rings, no shoes, no chimeras, no anything? It will be my pleasure to make your acquaintance in linden shoes and linden hair. The restrictions on the rezzing of certain types of sculpted prims are going to affect everything. I reckon if you have a one prim barstool with the detail that was previously allocated to a 25 prim barstool, your contribution to lowering the prim load contains enough vertices that it would be considered "extravagant geometry" under this particular issue. This issue doesn't just break jewelry, it will affect sculpted prims of all sizes, in all uses, if they apparently are anything much more than a sculpted apple or banana. The sculpts in my jewelry that don't rez aren't complicated 3-D detailed shapes like a bar stool, they are rounded stones, circles, ovals, or chain links. When your one-pirim barstool decides to not rez because of rendering limits, or architectural details on a highly technical build or even details on what is considered today to be fashionable clothing in SL are affected, perhaps you might see things differently. Also, I too am a land owner. btw, what happened to LODing based on how much of the screen something covers and to occlusion culling ?
hey all - we're actively looking into the problem - wanted to calm some nerves - there's a good chance we'll raise that limit to 8192 in the next release, or find some better solution.
Tofu adds: I've talked to some of the engineers and while the change that caused this problem was intended to address some specific griefing vectors, we did NOT intend to break valid content. The examples from this jira have been very helpful - we have a fix queued up for the next viewer release. Excellent! Way to go guys!
Good to hear this Qarl!
As this spoils much of our content, we have been thought of stop our work for SL. im glad to hear that LL will be actively working on this issue. i just updated my viewer & checked my jewelry. totally busted... basically all the necklaces i just put in my store are completely broken. i desperately need this fixed in order to stay in business!
TigroSpottystripes Katsu wrote:
btw, what happened to LODing based on how much of the screen something covers and to occlusion culling? The extra math require to do occlusion culling caused the viewer to crash repeatedly in earlier releases. (I'm using a dual core mac, but the person who told me about setting this option to "false" was using windows.) Hope this helps. so if someone hides the sausage, SL divides by zero and we get disappearing sculpties? :|
btw, doesn't graphics cards have the ability of doing occlusion culling themselves? I still wanna know why the client doesn't simply controls how much vertexes per screen area can be rendered down-LODing anything that is making some part of the screen overcrowded with vertexes, and I also wanna know why we can't count on vertexes that aren't visible not affecting performance Bad implementation. Cull unimportant nodes instead, and/or reduce mesh detail if too much is visible. Do neither when frame rate is already good. Since this is obvious, I guess it must be a lot easier said than done, so get crackin ASAP! Just thinking using my fingers here... So we have very few people having problems with vertex griefers. We have very few people having everyday performance issues caused by too many vertices (proven, because people now don't have more FPS as before this limit). OTOH we now have lots of people having problem with valid everyday content.
So perhaps we just have a problem choosing the default? The default should give best balance between effects and performance for most people, not protecting all including some very few exceptions. Clearly: hiding prims from users which could be shown without problems to the vast majority is really harmful to us and to you. So why not leaving the default unlimited (or setting the limit very high) and for these few people having issues with griefers or with too complex attachments or having too old hardware that doesn't meet the minimum specs, these can then set the limit down. This works great for years in normal games. Pick any modern game since quake III and you will find tweak guides for those few people who have special needs either in quality or in performance. If people have issues, they search for solutions. Provide the infos for those only and all are back in business again. One additional note: This issue has been discussed since RC started. Why does LL so often ignore people until the viewer is released? You had the chance to think about this problem before releasing (okay okay i know "Hooray! We met the time schedule!!") but now we have the problem of this issue now being out in the wild. Everything you ever want to do about that now will not help us until the next viewer version is released. Until 1.24 is out, all users using latest stable viewer will suffer from that. I suppose that will break the neck of lots of content creators. Because of the financial crisis we all are already fighting against loss and with this summing up, some of us will loose this fight forever. I am SO relieved to wake up this morning to find Qarl and Tofu's comment. Yesterday after finding all my content broken I was just about ready to shut up shop especially after reading Q's and others comments, not just on the jira but also on the sldev threads where some are more than a little disparaging of creators of highly detailed content. It's still not the end of the road. This change won't be un-implemented/changed until the next main viewer release so for months we will be seeing many customer service issues, and loss of customer confidence from those who don't question why they can't see their object. The average SL user doesn't read blogs/jira, doesn't contact creators about broken content and doesn't want to have to fiddle around in their debug settings to make things work. My personal feeling is that we need to keep pushing for LL to release a patch to the current viewer asap or businesses without the means to weather that out will suffer. I have written a notecard which has been circulating around designer and blogger groups with more information and instructions on how to change the debug settings. If anyone would like a copy just give me, Lorrie Jefferson or Beulah Mills a shout, and please feel free to pass it on. Okay, I am a creator, not just of jewellery, but of a great many things in SL. I was both pleased and dismayed to find this issue highlighted; pleased so I knew I wasnt going crazy, and dismayed about LL's apparent cavalier attitude to something that has had such a wide impact.
It seems that LL are finally starting to see the light but the problem persists. What i find most strange about the attitutde towards this issue is that it seems to contradict every linden line i have ever read concerning the introduction of new "features". Historically, when anything changes from a scripting point of view the approach is always to avoid breaking existing content at all costs. At least give us the choice to view SL how we want to. This problem is serious and needs fixing quickly. *and on the subject of griefing, if someone is throwing tomatoes at me, I dont ban tomatoes, I make sure the griefer is dealt with quickly and effectively so he doesnt do it again. Leave my tomatoes alone! While the imposed display limit might be good for those with lower end systems, I think that it would be MUCH better if you allowed the residents to manipulate the settings themselves with some kind of slider under the settings menu. If my system can handle it, I want to be able to easily set the limit higher myself. As it stands, this issue breaks a lot of legitimate content. Please allow us to decide for ourselves what we want to be displayed.
I've already heard that folks using the newest version of the RC are not experiencing the breakage, so I don't know if they've already made some kind of a change that will come out in the next update. Thank you, guys, for hearing what we had to say.
Please fix this. Put simply, give our customers a choice regarding the level of detail they wish to see. Do not break all of our past work with no warning. Do not destroy our businesses on a whim, and please do not limit levels of artistry that are rightly welcomed one day, then apparently not the next.
Please consider that many of us work hard to be as creative as possible within the known and accepatable bounds of prim use, and many jewellers like myself provide higher and lower prim options with their sets. ( Because we recognise that avatars need choices and flexibility..ie..wear the lower prim version when out in a crowd, the higher if you're working alone creating artistic 2D images. ) The important issue, once again, is choice. Please stop eroding them, and please stop forcing all people to have a limited experience. Rosie Barthelmess added: "I've already heard that folks using the newest version of the RC are not experiencing the breakage"
The problem is in the recent release viewer. The last release candidate is slightly older than the release version. There is no release candidate for the next viewer yet. Can you please elaborate on what these people really use? That would be very helpful! Thank you! I'm a melee weapons builder, and I'm having the same problem, I'm using sculpted textures, for shaping, ,also normal textures for mapping, no alpha textures, but when I get close to work on details of smaller parts, I can't see them
The funny thing is, this looks more like misconfiguration, than intentional render throttling.. and here's why.
If my camera is 2m away from me, everything looks fine. Ideally, a throttling system would be culling very tiny prims at distance, much like avatar imposters kick in at a distance, where hopefully the effect won't be noticed. Speaking of that.. how about some kind of toggling system for the user, where we can choose to enable/disable prim culling? Or better yet, a slider like all the others, that like "Object Detail" determines if we prefer our SL maxxed out for appearance, or for functionality. My experiences matches Winter's...
I've incorporated a number of small sculpts in 12 recent hairstyles only for people to write back to me and tell me that the hair is "glitching" for the reasons outlined here. My experiece has been that at 3m from the avatar, everything appears fine, but up close or at a distance of 5m or so, chunks go missing in predictable patterns. The prims concerned have sculpt maps using RGB ranges between 80 and 178 rather than the full 0-255, with average dimensions of 10-20cm on all three axes. Sometimes I wonder if Lindens are volenteers and recieve nothing but entertainment in thier jobs. For many reasons. Like Prices for land rival real life rent. And the cute part is. It gets MORE espensive over time. And patches like this that screw over the people who fund thier company. Its a shame people don't leave to make the point. You Can't screw over the people who pay you. You can make the game better for all the new people that you want and you won't get a payout for it.
Make it opptional for the settings like all user interface options for most all programs in edit preferences you lower the quality to your need. On and off switch would make everyone happy. And a little customer serive now and ever would be lovely. I agree that this is something that is a major issue that needs to be changed, and not as 'nice to have'. I agree with Niiro and others who have suggested making optional settings that allow people to reduce the quality etc as needed, rather than force this as a default and break a lot of content.
Making a change that breaks any kind of content is not something that should be done without a lot of testing as well as a public notice of intention, with time for public comments and suggestions - as the devs know, the more people that know, the better the chance that someone will come up with a workable solution. Only a very small percentage of SL residents keep up with the PJIRA, and even though this issue has quite a few votes already (which indicates a measure of its importance), it is nothign compared to the huge outcry there will be when content creators are faced with broken content across the grid. interesting... the "back to 8k" solution is not only fixing THIS problem here at the thread for me, but also the nonstop stroboscope effect with trees, plants and every other alpha stuff around me... before the whole 1.23 series was a totally showstopper (exactly) to me, now it's fine (except my own avatar is still semialpha... using ATI HD4850)
'I'm downgrading this issue to "Nice to have". ??? seriously, mr. Q Linden... it's NOT nice to have a showstopper EDIT: more funny: i got the answer from support, that my gfx card isn't compatible with SL sigh I have the problem here with a special halter (I am a horse on Unicorn AV in SL) with a chain made of multiple links. My partner has one that was specially custom made for him. Both worked OK with release 1.22. With 1.23 they are both destroyed. Friends I have in SL have businesses that rely on being able to make fine chained detailed objects.
I was appaled by what I read as the initial replies from the Lindens !! This is a business guys, WE are the customers. SL is not run for just for your own convinience. You can't suddenly decide to regress the capabilities and reduce specifications just because you cant be bothered to solve a problem properly until they complain, and expect your customers to take it ! I am pleased though to read later comments that suggest that this issue will be investigated seriously. This is at least a "major issue" - and for some of us it's simply ruining our business. I honestly hope you will fix it very very soon. If not - I will have to pull a lot of my jewelry; I have already postponed if not cancelled several new releases because I wouldn't want to sell items people can't rez properly.
Telling them to change their debug-settings is no solution - people who buy highly detailled jewelry or accessories tend to be vain. They want to look good to other people too - not only on their own screen. And it's not only "a tiny fraction of content" that is affected but a lot of high-quality items. And designers invested hours of work to create this content - just to find it's broken from one day to the other, without warning. If this has been an intentional change to prevent griefing or to keep frame rates up or whatever - then it has been an irresponsible and ignorant move. If it has been unintended "collateral damage" - well, one reason more to fix it asap, isn't it? still I would not understand why this known issue was simply ignored when the viewer was released. Please fix it soon - don't ruin our work, our experience and our business. Give us the choice and add an optional setting for those who have to reduce the quality, but don't break our content. If you are not a Linden then don't grief the pjira and abuse residents by trying to close issues that are none of your business.
Please don't make a big deal out of other people changing things on an issue, especially if they might be trying to help. JIRA will be more helpful all around that way. Civil discussion between you and your peers is as important as that between you and LL.
Checking the imported copy of the issue, this is indeed fix pending. A small suggestion that might help to avoid misunderstandings in the future. If a non-Linden is changing the status, it would be nice to have a brief comment with the status change. Just something short to add credibility to it.
I think we need a " [citation needed] " thing for when people make an statement by means of changing status and such of a pjira entry, ideally being automaticly added if no comment is added while changing the status
@ Q Linden wrote in part: "We must continue to define hard limits where necessary in order to make sure that our system scales not only across an ever-increasing user base but also across an ever-increasing range of capabilities in graphics cards and computers."
Excuse me, but do you even know the definition of scalability? Breaking content so more people can see chunky builds is not even remotely scaling. Really, do look up that word. And while you're at it, how about buying a real database, hiring a real database designers, revisit your load balancing architecture, and get that scalability engineer you're looking for? Because this problem will not go away by ignoring the real root of your scaling issue, which has less to do with people's graphics cards and more to do with a faulty system design that was never expected to see the load it is seeing now. In fact, throttling content and throwing hardware at your asset servers only prolongs the inevitable. And btw, and fwiw, this brilliant idea that is allegedly intended to reduce lag has in fact, increased it. Go figure. OMG that explains my magical disappearing necklace links.
I do detailed sculpts. This has the potential to break almost everything I do. You want to reduce the number of prims and vertices I use? 1. Allow transparent shine (I currently use 3-5 prims to accomplish what one transparent shiny prim could theoretically do) 2. Allow microprims. Let me make a torus smaller than 1cm on a side... are you kidding me? I cannot make even one women's ring properly without either sculpting nano or prim torture, without having it look completely chunky. 3. Fully support megaprims. People do all the things that megaprims do badly with the existing ones, banning them doesn't solve that problem but it forces people to use multiple prims (thus adding vertices, etc, etc.) to accomplish what one can do... the ways that I get around that? Involve prim torture. And the lack of support means that, gosh, people don't want to use them even when using them could save thousands of prims without changing a darned thing about how a place looks. Those three things could potentially cut anywhere from 50% to 90% of the prim load on new builds. Jeez I was wonder why, while building, that whole beads were vanishing on the bracelet I was making after a bit of a break from SL. Wow...just....wow. Seriously this is all kinds of messed up. I had to google the problem as I had no idea what a 'jira' was...and I've been around for a while. When a 'fix' so majorly impacts the content of SL I don't see why it would even be considered as only 'nice to have'. No, you need to fix this. Improved content means a better looking SL and a plethora of variation. If everyone who buys my products has to adjust their settings and tell everyone that mentions the missing links in their necklace that they need to change their settings...then...um...hello? Kind of defeats the purpose of the fix to begin with.
Adjusting this for the newcomers is just plain ridiculous as they do not contribute financially to the economy of Second Life, and when they do....they'll need to adjust their settings like the rest of us when they start making purchases to improve their in game appearance with accessories and such. I do not understand hurting the people who spend serious real life cash in game, and benefiting those who just take up server space. Jewelry creativity,business & money is cracking after the the 1.23 release (many customers are asking why they payed for stuff that now dissappears) ,and the problem is not only for small prim artists....take a look at "PIC n.7".
Not only small prims or sculpts dissapear when you zoom on them, even big boxes like this 0.5x0.5 meter ones,these snapshots are done with the new "release candidate Second Life 1.23.4 (123523) Jun 9 2009" For me this is a huge bug...a downgrade to the great 1.21 version ,or a new fixed 1.24 version is urgent. Thank You I am seeing the same problem running the 1.23.4 (123523) Release Candidate viewer (only) on the RC for Windows7 64bit, with the latest Nvidia Drivers installed for my 8800GTS.
Second Life 1.23.4 (123523) Jun 9 2009 08:32:14 (Second Life Release Candidate) Built with MSVC version 1400 You are at 286914.7, 271636.3, 651.8 in Vleet located at sim5299.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.49.46:13000) CPU: Intel Pentium III/Pentium III Xeon (0.25 micron process) with external L2 cache (2999 MHz) libcurl Version: libcurl/7.18.1 OpenSSL/0.9.8j zlib/1.2.3 I'm glad to see this is supposedly Fix Pending - hope that rollout is coming soon. a fix for this cannot come fast enough. i have prims disappearing on me as im editing them. there's nothing quite like working on the invisible!
please, some of us have deadlines to meet, bills to pay & businesses to support. this issue desperately needs to be fixed! As Zwagoth pointed out to me, and Qarl mentioned, the fix for this is very very simple. Just raise the debug value of RenderMaxNodeSize to 8192 or so.
I will attach a patch for the settings.xml file so it can be set to that by default. (will be taken care of in the next emerald release) Raising the debug setting will help us builders to create our stuff, correct. Including this patch into the next emerald release will help all users of this new release to see our stuff flawlessly, correct as well. Thank you for this effort!
But we still suffer because every customer using any other viewer does see our products as being broken and blame the creators. We could then tell the workaround as well so they see our products fine as well, but then they might get notified by friends "hey, pal, your jewelry is broken". That doesn't help our customers at all, because they don't just want to own our jewelry, they also want to show it to the world. And when they know they cannot show it around correctly, they will want to get their money back. Our business is suffering badly until the next official release viewer will fix that... When will that come out? in 2 months? in 4 months? Really, some of us creators won't be still here by then, some perhaps will virtually die with serious RL debts because they tried everything to bear up as long as possible. I get this no matter what viewer I use now...absolutely impossible to even photograph my builds...frustrating and I might as well just quit bothering if this isn't fixed. At least before I had it only in RC.
Second Life 1.21.6 (99587) Oct 14 2008 17:42:25 (Second Life Release) CPU: Intel Pentium III/Pentium III Xeon (0.25 micron process) with external L2 cache (2833 MHz) Downloaded the newest version...no good...not a clue what to do to fix "settings"...nor will any of my potential customers...so much for content creation, I might as well just hand at clubs and do gestures....better yet...maybe I should go read a book. Tell your customers this.
Press ctrl - alt - shift - d to open the advanced menu at the top bar of their second life screen. Have them open it, scroll down to the option called "debug settings" This will open a box, have them type in, or use the drop down to select the setting "RenderMaxNodeSize" Have them change the value (it will probably be 4096) to 9001. Thnx Greg
 I did that, at first when I rezzed my one choker it was missing pieces but as soon as I put it in edit the rest appeared and stayed there. So it seems to have worked. I am not sure how this stuff works I appreciate it. I did have one last night that was just a single stone in the setting...and only the setting would appear at times...Jewelry Fair in Sept...I hope will be successful, I was about to just close up shop though over this mess. Time to include an SL Debug card with all items....sigh...nothing could be simple huh. Lordgreggreg,
I know you are being helpful, but with the best will in the world this doesnt even come close to fixing the problem. Informing our customers doesnt help, they buy our products to look good to other people. Customer 1. "Hey all my friends and hundreds of other people in second life i see every day, look at this beautiful piece of jewellery i paid good money for.....just Press ctrl - alt - shift - d to open the advanced menu at the top bar of their second life screen. Have them open it, scroll down to the option called "debug settings" This will open a box, have them type in, or use the drop down to select the setting "RenderMaxNodeSize" Have them change the value (it will probably be 4096) to 9001. Avatar 1. "Has left the sim" :/ This needs to be default. It needs to be fixed now! Hey, believe me , i know. The only possible fix is for LL to change it, and FAST before everyone ends up with this new viewer with the messed up settings. They need to make a patch and re-release asap else it will be too late, and you will have to wait till people all decide to update again.
I was just offering help for the people who read this jira who want to be able to see it right themselfs. (and possibly pointing out that LL is crazy slow at fixing a one line change) XD at Avatar 1. Help always appreciated Lordgreggreg! Rhiamon, dont tell your customers to debug, tell them to vote here! Avatar1. Waiting for LL to increase the default setting is not the only solution available. Content creators can also implement their own solution immediately; a solution that can be enjoyed by every user, on every version of viewer.
Reducing the resolution of the sculpted textures has a greater impact than asking LL to double the default value. For example, replacing a 128x128 sculpted texture with a 64x64 sculpted texture would use 1/4 the number of vertices. Replacing it with a 32x32 scrulpted texture would use 1/16 the number of vertices. Reducing the number of 128x128 sculpted textures in an object can bring the scene below the 4,096 vertex limit, making them viewable by everyone. Not every sculpted texture would look great at lower resolutions, but that factor of four cannot be ignored. Contents creators that can effectively use lower resolution sculpted textures stand to gain a competitive edge, just as low prim content creators are preferred by people with low prim limits on their land. This is a constructive suggestion. It's intended to give content creators an immediate solution; one that does not require waiting for anyone else to take action. It doesn't work exactly like Cheek suggests. A 128x128 pixel sculptmap has exactly the same number of vertices as a 64x64 pixel sculptmap. Both have 32x32 (1024) faces which is the maximum number of faces that a sculptie can have. So if you think that you are getting more vertices by using 128x128 pixels, then you are wrong. Sculpties have never worked that way.
But it is true that you can reduce the number of vertices by using less than 64x64 pixels. A 32x32 pixel sculptmap generates 16x16 (256) faces, which is indeed 1/4 of the 1024 faces that a 64x64 pixel sculptmap generates. You can also reduce the number of vertices in oblong sculpts. For example, a 32x128 pixel sculptmap has 16 x 64 (1024) faces. You can reduce the number of faces below 1024 by reducing one of the dimensions. Thus, a 32x64 pixel sculptmap would have 16 x 32 (512) faces. So, that would cut the number of vertices in half. One potential problem, however, is older viewers. This ability to reduce the number of vertices isn't supported by older viewers I forget what version number this was added, 1.21maybe. So, a sculptmap that is optimized in this way might not look right in viewers before that. But maybe that isn't an issue, LL recently raised the minimum allowed version of the viewer, but I can't remember what the new minimum version is. Not sure if you realized this or not - it's NOT just Sculpted prims.
/me waits for it to sink in. This happens on my necklace called Diamond & Pearls and the matching earrings - all made from regular run-of-the-mill prims other than the 3 sculpted gems I used on the necklace (the diamonds). Notably, spheres and tori. When zoomed out you can't see the spheres (pearls - textured, twisted 180 and alpha on outside) on the necklace - when zooming in, they don't appear either. I have to right-click them before they show up. Makes my triple-tiered necklace look like there are no gems on it at all and there are the 3 diamonds along with 10 pearls. Same with the matching earrings - the tori used as a connector between the graduated pearls do not show up until right-clicked. There are no sculpts in the earrings at all - just tori and spheres. Looks like 3 balls hanging in mid-air. So this brings the issue to a new level for me - how many people are going to right-click their stuff just so it can be seen? I don't see that happening alot - it will get old real quick. Thanks! I'm a content creator as well and find this viewing problem....well....a major issue. The fact that parts of the shoes i just bought vanish (really good heels with prim feet), toes are missing, toenails are missing, parts of the strap missing, all this after the creator spent hours and hours and many $L for sure, then I buy the heels and they don't function properly and LL says...oh well, deal with it, it's here to stay, seems wrong/sad to say the least. That's like saying, ok the faucet in your bathroom is broken but it DOES work for people in wheelchairs and you have to use this messed up screwdriver to turn it on and this is just the way it is...deal with it. If this were my landlord and this were his attitude, damn straight I'd be moving out soon, especially since there's never anyone in a wheelchair in my bathroom and that stupid screwdriver is ugly stickin out like that... i been robbed/ripped off/bamboozled by creators selling copyrighted content or just out and out ripped off, now I feel violated by LL and their "oh well" attitude about their own faulty product. Biting the hand that feeds you isn't too smart is it? We need MORE mesh and higher viewing capabilities and those with a P.O.S brand video card (peice of $hit) can either go buy some real hardware and get with it or not because after all, you don't go out and buy a video game that requires specific hardware then whine they didn't make the game for your card when you have no rendering capabilities in the first place! I want the pie menu like it was and i want more mesh and i want the option to set that amount of rendering to my liking....not just have to "deal with it"....like all the others, i'll leave SL also and then the people getting paychecks at LL will have to "deal with it"...
"This is not a bug. We added the limit in order to keep frame rate up in the presence of what is, in essence, excessive geometry. [irrelevant comment deleted with apologies]
I'm downgrading this issue to "Nice to have"." I can't understand this approach. Big part of content creators or customers complain about this problem. Creators + customers = SL society. By this comment I feel treated like guinea-pig of Linden Labs that want to 'make good' for us, acting against any norms, opinions of the society. The question appears.. SL is for users or users are for SL? Not to leave this comment without any creative part: I am having virtual bussiness becoming huge part of some real life one. Having this issue makes me answer loads of instand messages and explain myself. Why Linden Labs can't truly take responsibility for that? Please. Bear in mind that creators are theese who will have to explain the problem mostly. Has it occurred to anyone else that the whole proposal that this change "is a fix for frame rate issues" speaks more volumes about the underlying design of the rendering engine than it does about anything else? The idea that zooming closer to an object (i.e. you wish to see more) would make the object disappear is entirely ludicrous from a functionality standpoint. The problem appears to be that this rendering engine key is cross-related to another property of rendering objects that are further away, but may kill frame rate. Thus the fact that both functional use cases are tied to this single key that controls the culling algorithm simply shows that the rendering engine itself is in need of a fix.
I respectfully ask LL development to think things fully through before making changes that have disastrous side-effects, and instead focus on solutions that actually improve the platform not quick hacks presented as solutions, which can destroy hours/days/weeks of work by its residents (a consequence that LL does not appear to care enough about). The proper way to deal with "excessive geometry" is to adjust LoD. Don't push LoD up where it becomes "excessive", which SHOULD be defined by the graphics capabilities of the hardware platform SL is running on (i.e., it should be a Properties setting, autodetected by default, but controllable by the user).
Dealing with it by cutting off rendering at some arbitrary point is rather crude, and the results show it. Short answer: remove the "fix" and fix it properly by controlling LoD more finely. Well, for my shop, any update will come too late. We're gone by now. Thanks a lot, Linden Labs.
For all of you who still try to survive until this is resolved: I will keep my vote on this JIRA. For what it's worth.... Is this being fixed?..i read here in "next release" but it seems to have gone on since new releases and certainly aint fixed in snowglobe, or latest RC.
We have been racking our brains as to why some fairly major components of our sim wide build are flickering on and off seemingly randomly...and to discover that its simply that LL have downgraded a setting is somewhat disturbing. I note that this issue is unassigned, unfixed? and has (judging from comments) ruined a couple of businesses. And has plenty of votes...what is happening please? This is a genuine question – is this setting changed to service the low-performance needs of some imagined community of users while it's obvious that there are many real users having problems with this. Why not just revert unless there is a compelling case for servicing what appears to be a very silent minority with insufficient hardware to run second life...?
I have to agree with the last two comments. This problem was created IMHO by a misguided action, things worked OK before and and those that made the changes presumably know exactly what they did. I don't see why there could be a delay or any issue over fixing this. Businesses are failing, and residents enjoyment of objects they've bought and possess is being compromised right now.
I have serious questions of my own.... Linden Labs : The change didn't cut down on processing geometry anyway. right click to edit and you can see all the geometry was still calculated. It just doesn't paint a texture on the geometry. If you view performance measures you will see this change had little impact on performance one way or another. And that is very telling. The difference this crippleware made was a reduction of only 30 ktris/fr. Big deal lol. 30 ktris/fr? That isn't even going to help on low setting for netbooks that should not even be allowed to connect via a standard client.
If you want a better performance increase then get rid of windlight because that adds 130 ktris/fr no matter where you are. Even if inside a box with no alpha textures windlight adds 130 ktris/fr. Perhaps Linden Lab needs to be looking in the right places for performance improvements. Like delete windlight. Bring it back in 5 years when hardware catches up. Ann,
Linden Lab just needs to use current-gen Technologies when rendering complex geometry. Instancing and GPU Tessellations to name a few. GPU Tessellation examples: http://bit.ly/RYXrc After doing the "Advanced>Debug Settings>RenderMaxNodeSize* (Ctrl-Alt-D if you have no advanced menu) to 8192" as Harleen Gretzky indicated to me i'm having EXACTLY the same problem.
Adding two pics to show the problem. This issue is the same in Snowglobe 1.1 I will not say you Linden Labs do not try to (in your own way) improve the overall gamers experience.. it is just not thought about enough guys.. Options are given here that should have probably been used like the slider in the options.
Inclined to make all kinds of accusations here which would very like hit home, i will not.. Please see that it is in all our eyes a good move to make DEFAULT SL which starts when a noob joins a pretty much failsafe preset. You can however never set users back and downgrade without making us feel patronized, belittled, ripped off, turned off, angry, frustrated, abused etc.. You have chosen to do so nontheless. Don't get me wrong, i am not a premium member, but i have put in 2 years, couple hours a day, making YOUR game. We all know, you Mr x linden or you Mr Y linden are probably not the one we should beat up, but tell me who then.. cause we spend months on a sim that has parts dissapearing now and it is hard to swallow. That is what we got in return for trying to make a new showcase worthy area which would also have helped you in the end, being able to provide nice areas in the world you are selling instead of just endless malls and some nice clubs you got left. Remember mostly everything else is not accesible to noobs now due to the adult content rule you see.. They won't get exiting or hot or whatever other thrill is generally used ot advertise.. They can only get pretty pictures from you at this point.. if only they could figure out that the graphics tab doesnt hold the secrets to ALL graphics. Why we put up with this and just moan and complain? I am all for the Slider option.. I increased the value to get around the problem, and it worked out reasonably well...
...but today I enabled shadows on the current Snowglobe client, and suddenly plants and strands of hair started popping into and out of existence. Would I be correct in thinking that enabling shadows increases the number of vertices processed, so that with it, I have to increase the limit yet again? Not only sculpted prims affected
I had this same problem using just some torusses (about 60 or so).
RenderMaxNodeSize = 8192 did NOT work for my builds. Either way it's not a fix unless the rest of the world can see the same thing by default. No new viewer should be released without fixing this bug first. I'm glad so many people adamantly defended this as being a bug, because that's what it is. And it should be LL's top priority with the new viewer release. I only recently upgraded my viewer and started noticing this issue right away, on my own creations. I know SL has always been a balance between innovation and performance, but this 'feature' doesn't help matters at all. How much can it help with performance anyway when I see 1 prim disappear on a 111 prim backpack? And I know there are people playing SL on low end computers, but mine's got one of the most recent Nvidia graphics cards installed. Having sculpts disappear because of 'performance' is beyond any logic.
Please PLEASE set the default limit way higher, put these values in a graphics parameter in preferences if you must, but do not leave things as they are. Preferably, just get rid of this change altogether. This bug kills those innovative and detailed creations that make me love SL in the first place. I put a lot of time and effort into my own work and find the thought that it wouldn't display properly because of an unnecessary viewer change very disheartenting. I put RenderMaxNodeSize to 8192 now, which works for me, but I can't imagine what customers must think who don't know about this issue and/or are not familiar with debug settings. Bump. Please guys, fix this one. Within my lifetime. Please.... ?
I am another merchant who's creations are broken with new things I can not release.
Until 2 days ago using an older client would have been an option, but now people who want more than Mature (aka PG-13) content have to use the 1.23 viewer. I could echo the frustrations expressed in the pages of posts before mine. I could add photographs of broken items. To what end though? In June we are told a fix is pending. Its mid-September and people have now been forced to use the broken viewer with broken content and when was the last time a Linden offered an update? Davy Linden added a comment - 17/Aug/09 03:08 PM Thanks, but what we really need to know is what is being done and when can we expect to see it. It's already too late for some and the clock is loudly ticking for others. Some interesting things to consider: 1. A friend with a Raedon graphics card has never been able to upgrade to the 1.23 viewer, his FPS drop below 5 and he crashes. Driver updates and a number of setting changes have all failed. 1.22 however works fine for him. Good thing he doesn't do anything but script and so doesn't need to use the search function. He can keep 1.22 and things to not disappear for him. 2. Since Sept 15 when the 1.23 viewer became required for full search functionality, our sales have dropped 75%. We have both mature and adult locations. 3. The population online over the weekend seemed to be about 40% lower than usual the few times I checked it. 4. For all the problems this Adult change over and the rush to get it implemented has created, it does not work. In an experiment with an avatar set to view only up to mature content, searching for a permitted word, she was still coming up with results stuff full of words she wasn't allowed to search for. The above comments are problems on their own, each should have its own jira, however I mention them here because it seems to me that it all comes down to a rush to push out the Adult restrictions and corresponding viewer. Including the lack of comment and information from the company. The Lindens that would be inclined to respond at all probably don't know what to say anymore. I will try a simple, direct question. When is Fix Pending going to become Resolved? I agree...WHEN WHEN WHEN?
its a simple question - and you wonder why the level of frustration grows and grows - we can't even get simple answers I started to get into creating jewelry .. it's not worth it until this is fixed. Not only is it difficult to create detailed jewelry when one's prims keep vanishing, I don;t want to have to explain to customers that the prims are really there and it's LL'd viewer that's screwing up the content.
Breaking content used to be the #1 no-no ... now everything is breakable if it suits LL's need to keep people with weak PCs on the grid. I upgraded to come to SL - why do you feel no one else would? Fix this. > now everything is breakable if it suits LL's need to keep people with weak PCs on the grid
It doesn't help people with weak PCs. Beside my gamer PC I have an old one (slow P4 with Geforce 6200) and this change which causes this bug does not give any single frame per second. This change is just to tell paying customers: "Hey look, no matter how much you pay to us, we still pwn you and you can shout and beg and cry as much as you want, we still can ignore you for months and months. And hey: You're still paying us nevertheless, aren't you? Muhahahaha" Bump. Happy October.
Also, if Qarl's last post here (June) says they are trying to fix it, and a patch exists, and status is "fix pending", then is there any particular reason this issue still is showing as "unassigned"? It's clear to me that this is a simple issue that isn't hard to fix, that the solution is obvious, and that the reason for the original change as presented by LL representatives is not supported by the actual resultant effect of the change that was made.
It seems to me therefore that there must be some other reason why this issue persists, and it most definitely seems that its apparent aim is to damage intentionally in-world merchants for some goal related to LL's strategy (possibly in relation to SLX). I entreat and hope for an official response to rebut this analysis and to prove my thinking wrong. Maybe even a FIX. Release Notes for Second Life 1.23(5) Release Candidate - October 15, 2009
Changes
If you still have issues with prims vanishing with the rendermaxnodesize set to 8192 or higher then you probably have a different issue going on. I had this defect reported under other defects until it became apparent it was not the same although having similar symptoms so I created a specific pjira issue for it. And this issue has been resolved with upping the default value to 8192.
I don't follow your logic Ann for closing the issue when the symptoms are the same even if rendermaxnode size is set to 8192. this issue is not fixed for me. rendermaxnodesize set to 8192, rendervolumeLod set to 8. i do understand that maybe it needs a new title. A lot of issues were closed and rolled into this one. I created http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-13982
to specifically define my experience. It was declared a duplicate of this issue and closed. This issue may have the wrong title and it is NOT resolved by any stretch.
rendermaxNodeSize does not fix this for me. I have to click on the prims. I can click on them and make visible then if i change camera to another view and return to the items (jewelry mostly) the will have disappeared again and i will have to click again. You can imagine what a PITA this is shooting models in a fashion show. This problem seems to be worse with 1.23.5. I would love to use Snowglobe, but it is important to me that prims and avatars be textured eventually. Texture loading problems make snowglobe unusable for me. I am curious what "broke". This jira issue was not a problem 6 months ago, but then neither were most of the snapshot bugs problems 6 months ago. It seems logical to me that things that used to work ok and then don't in new releases would get the highest priority. I don't get it... if you break it, fix it, new features and wizz bang doodle stuff can wait till you fix what you broke making the new stuff. Second Life 1.23.5 (136262) Oct 14 2009 12:08:26 (Second Life Release) |
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Bug
Closed
Major
Rendermaxnodesize default value too low
