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Celierra Darling added a comment - 18/Jun/07 04:15 PM
When are these happening? Are they long messages?
No, it can happen to any message, regardless of length, special characters or any other pattern.
I have seen a full 15 minutes delay from posting something until it showed in group chat. At one point, the Scripters of Second Life group took to writing timestamps in their posts, and it was obvious that several minutes were not uncommon. If there are any known circumstances, it seems to be with many group members online, though it is not a clear repro case. And it is not sporadic flukes; it happens very often, to the point of it being the rule rather than the exception in a big group like Scripters, at least in my experience. As further clarification, it varies wildly which messages are delayed and how long. Sometimes, in a chat, some people's messages are delayed more than 10 minutes, while others come through instantly.
The actual delivery varies from client to client, with the same message going through to some, while being delayed for minutes to others. (As evidenced when somebody answers a question you have not yet seen). The following are more sketchy observations, which may or may not be useful in tracking down the cause: Also, the "There was an error sending your message to the group" dialog boxes seem to have no relationship to the delay of a message or whether it makes it to the group at all.
The error message is
I have seen this too, just now I was seeing answers before questions, and I typed "1" "2" "3" on three different lines, after about 2 minutes it came back as "1", "3", "2".
Group chat is just unusable right now. The combination of this and
There seems to be no direct correlation between 1297's error messages and 1298's delays. I have, for instance, entered a message, had it not appear for a minute or so, then gotten one of 1297's error popups, and then seen the message appear in group chat (so long delayed as to be entirely out of context and useless). I've also had my message never appear at all after getting the popup, and also had my message appear after a long delay with no popup. (The one case I don't explicitly recall seeing is having my message not appear at all without getting a popup.) Please fix this so we can have usable group chat channels again! this is effecting all groups all group IM's and friends confrence IM's
Re: group IM problems in general, I agree it sucks, every time this happens to me I'm reminded of such pain. (I was going to move this issue to SVC but looks clearer to find here.)
We've internally been discussing a longer-term project that's needed to scale this, and related communication breakdown problems, for future growth. We've also been looking at possibilities we might be able to do sooner. It won't be easy to revamp the system, and from what I understand from our devs, a prior precedent doesn't really exist for massive group chat the way we have it in Second Life, so it's tough to look for inspiration or an implementation to base ourselves on. Those curious about the technical architecture are welcome to attend Zero Linden's Office Hours (info @ https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_Hours We definitely want to make this better – and BTW, I should note the more Lindens are inworld and using Second Life for meetings, the more we're noticing it too. I know some of you reading this have concerns that Lindens never see this problem, but of course that's not the case. As I get more updates, I'll share 'em so you can be apprised of progress. Situation is better since 11-July update, but still experiencing long delays - and frequent failed Group Chat messages.
This issue continues as of the 1.18.2 release.
This seems to be getting progressively worse after a short period where things were working a little better. We're now at a level where, judging from the nonsensical conversation snippets and long periods of silence, I am losing (not just getting delayed) more than half the messages from a group like Scripters of Second Life. I would like to echo Gigs Taggart's comments on
This needs to be addressed, since group chat in large groups is practically unusable at this level. My recollection is that this started happening when the first 'fix' for agents leaving conference messages was rolled in then became worse as more 'fixes' to make that one work as expected went in. For me this happens with greater regularity in large groups but even in conferences with a couple people. Perhaps related are occasions when a first message will open a new group window from a large group and induce an incredible slow down of performance of my viewer until I close that group chat.
This chat problem applies to both long delays in message appearance, in joining the group chat to begin with, and to messages being lost.
The TUi university student group (TUi Student Learning Group) has many problems with messages being delayed and with difficulty connecting to the group to even post. Messages that make it through may be delayed for minutes or even up to an hour, if not just lost. This problem does appear to be related to group size, and perhaps sim/grid traffic and utilization at the time of the message. This issue is still existing. It has not gotten better. In many groups it is stuck at "Starting session with <group name> please wait."
Lets push this up and get someone at LL to at least acknowledge it. I'm currently checking on the status of this. I believe there has been some headway made on this issue in an upcoming release, but I want to double check with the developer to make sure that I've got my facts straight.
i dont think any headway has been made this issue gets worse i send a group notice and only half the people will recieve it i get error messages when trying to sen a message to group IM as well every time i send a group message i never recieve it .....if i close a group Im i never get one again from that group til after relog and this is also only half the time as well sometimes i will some i dont
The code now runs in parallel when possible. Large groups (>1000 or so) will still experience delays.
Reopening this because it's still an issue. I have several groups of which are less than 1000 users, and it's very rare that there isn't some sort of delay. Sometimes upwards of 30 minutes of a delay.
I hate to say it, but this is a no-brainer. Phoenix tells us that "large groups (>1000 or so) will still experience delays." How many of these "group members" are actually alts of the same person? Reinstate the requirement of at least a token payment to establish an account! Or at least require some form of identification to set up a new account. That one action would significantly, and quickly, reduce the numbers in SL. Of course, perhaps LL likes these artificially inflated numbers. Hmmmm.
Still the same, we wait for working since 10 Months
 Currently seeing this in lots of groups ....
20 minute delay in a 267 member group (Advanced Scripters of Second Life) hep me, group chat fell down an it can't get up
Now its happening in smallish groups <1000, well all of them, actually. The delays are significant even in groups with less than ten people, so yeah... "it's dead Jim." This issue is happening (again) a quite hard way since yesterday ...
between 8 and 12 minutes for a message to appear in small groups (10-50 members) about 16 minutes in a large group (cooperation française, 7000 members) ... and still waiting for them to appear in another large group (Second Life Mentors) This happens with short as well as long messages (no visible delay difference) This is clearly an infrastructure issue, it is longstanding (1 year old,) and affects groups large and small (10 - 250+). Delays of 2 minutes are common, 5 min quite often , 10-20 min occasionally, The longest Delay I personally have seen was 22 hours. Message length seems to have no influance on the events. I have had sets of messages arrive in cronological reversed order, Occasionally in a burst, all with the same timestamp, I'm presuming that timestamps are generated locally.
OMG chatlaggg On occasion I have received the message not sent error and then right away the message arrives in the group, Take this as it is: a suggestion and (hopefully) helpful criticism. If you want a model for communications, take a look at Guild Wars or City of Heroes/Villains who have all players on one realm, have realm-wide communications, and far many more users than SL has (no offense). So far, I've not seen them have any significant problems with guilds (groups), or communications.
Happening in a RP Coordinator group of 37 members, posts not showing up for over ten minutes.
Have noted much longer delays in virtually all groups of all sizes. Am going to try to check whether this is at all viewer dependent, as it took off with a vengeance on the release of 1.20.9 RC.
I've watched this a long time without commenting on Jira. The delays that started sometime on 6 Jun are the worst I have ever seen in over a year, and they affect all users so far as I can see, and are not entirely related to string length as some delays in the past have been. This feels like a different bug than the more general one that results in intermittent delays, often hitting more selectively or even randomly. In larger groups the delays have easily been 45 minutes or longer, judging by those comments that group members have time-marked as tests. FWIW, I now have a min lag of 40 mins even in a group with 8 members. And in that group I cannot verify that the IM that took that long actually reached any other member. I know it had not reached an alt logged into the group to test whether using another viewer made any difference. The details for the one that echoed to self: Second Life 1.20.9 (88980) Jun 3 2008 19:25:06 (Second Life Release Candidate) You are at 272612.0, 256485.0, 22.6 in Romero located at sim394.agni.lindenlab.com (64.154.221.80:12035) CPU: Intel Core 2 Series Processor (2399 MHz) For the watching waiting alt: Nicholaz Edition [Eye Candy] 1.19.1 (4) May 12 2008 13:10:35 (Nicholaz Edition [Eye Candy EC-f]) based on source code by Linden Lab(TM) (http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Portal You are at 272612.1, 256484.9, 22.7 in Romero located at sim394.agni.lindenlab.com (64.154.221.80:12035) CPU: Intel Core 2 Series Processor (2399 MHz) Are the people acting like this is a new issue brand new to SL?
This has been going on for at least 8 months now. It does not matter if you are sending a one word message or the maximum letters allowed in the group chat. It does not matter what group it is. It does matter who the owner of the group is. It makes no difference what sim you are on. It does not matter what viewer you are usinng, Regular, RC or OnRez. It does not matter if 2 are in the group or 5000+. It does not matter what OS you have, Win98, WinXP or Vista. It does not matter what time of day it is. This is happening to every single person logging into SL and has been for 8 months. I implure you to please fix group chat. Use it for a few days...see what we are going through. TY! yes, this is the straw that broke the camels back. "The day the communities died", is what it should be called.
This is a major major showstopping problem. I know you can still log in, yadda yadda, but groups in SL hold communities together, its the one place people can interact in large numbers outside the physical constraints of sims, and with separation even in time and space. Now its worse than gathering in a sim. I can't begin to tell you how important it is that we have inworld groups that function a bit like forums. No, doing it on the web or IRC isn't a solution. Because most people in world refuse to fire up an IRC client, most even refuse to enter forums. They are inworld, and inworld exclusively. If groups don't function, there's no way to knit a cohesive large inworld community together, because there's just no way for hundreds to thousands of people to interact any other way. I can't begin to stress how fricking important the groups are to Second Life. I just can't. They are the weave of SL, Unravel the weave and the community fabric falls apart into threads. i have same problem as my own one it only got few people, still isnt show up yet!!
my group name is Andsim Christian Builder Azadine - it seems to have taken off with a vengeance since last night, coincidentally with the completion of much of the simulator rolling restarts. But I was having the problem from both old and new sims, so I doubt if its really viewer or simulator related. I think its totally server side on LL.
now my group wont let me send
i get this [12:52] Second Life: You are the only participant in this IM session. Your message is not being retransmitted or stored. but i am not only one andsim: I am getting that too. what is happening is that the session is not opening for other people, so it comes back saying nobody is in the session. I can verify this is going on for me as well.
now it is working good, lest no relogin
This issue is well known from everybody about many, many month ago and still continued.
I own several groups with different counts of members. All my groups are germanspeaking group/members. The issue is timeframed. To 99% it starts in evening MEZ. That means, its starts when we expect most of our customer/groupmembers are online and we need to call them for the daily evening event. It is a pain and we lost every evening. Connection -> Customers -> Money. Just to chime in - This has been a bug that has never been dealt with (to my knowledge) since I started playing. October 3rd, 2006. Which of course means, that this bug existed before I started playing, and before this JIRA was made.
Torley, Rob, any other Linden, I'm not sure what is defined as a "long term project", but after 2 years or more, without any significant change, nor (probably) any progress-post, it is high-time to increase the team that is working on it (which I hope there is one, and that it is a separate team). This has become a MAJOR problem over the last 2 days.
To quote Caemlyn Witherspoon :: "It does not matter if you are sending a one word message or the maximum letters allowed in the group chat. For two of the groups I am a member of, the Group IM function is VITAL, some might say life-saving, as people use it as a means of reaching out for help at times of crisis. For the past two days IM's are not getting through at all at times, and on the occasions they do get through they are severely delayed. These two groups have 349 and 250+ members respectively. PLEASE fix this asap flutters eyelashes How is this not the number one issue to be fixed? SL is a platform built around a chat room, and group chat has been broken since 2007? In a group with three people, group chat is perhaps working about 50% of the day - by working I mean that messages post in under 30 seconds and you don't get the lovely "You are the only participant in this IM session. Your message is not being retransmitted or stored" error.
This issue should be embarrassing for Linden Labs. The conference function (as well as group IM) is practically broken and as a virtual word that revolves around chat this needs some serious work. Having these functions working well would definitely have me check "better" when the survey pops ask asking my opinion if Second Life is getting better or not. I agree with many of the posts above me that this should be a critical issue Linden Labs attempts to resolve. I would scale it within the top 3 issues in SL atm.
I (rather unhelpfully) add my voice to the chorus chanting malediction on Linden Labs because of this problem. I gather this is an architectural issue. Can we have a little more detail on that? Obviously, the problem of concurrent chat over the Internet has been solved for a long time. (c.f. RFC 1459) What is it about your grid that makes this problem so tough to solve? If you can't answer that question, can you at least give us another read on when or if we might see some relief?
Thank you This is one of the last big issues. Lindens, please eventually fix it!
Minor quibble, but this issue does NOT duplicate the meta-issue. There are far more group chat issues than just this one. Calling this a dupe of the meta-issue aggregating ALL of the various group chat problems is needlessly confusing. Someone with appropriate editor privileges should tidy that up, considering it's doubtful this issue will get fixed before the last die-hard SL-ite hits the exit button for good.
It seems to me that theres a delay after posting a message it will either error completely and not post or post 15 - 60 minutes later.
Verry irritating and has done it for over a year now. Our groups seems to delay about 85 - 90% of the time. This appears to be an almost verbatim duplicate of 513; in the spirit of collaboration and consolidation, perhaps it's time to close this one as a duplicate of the longer standing ticket on the same issue.
Might as well add my voice to the clamor. I have noticed that unacceptable chat lag and/or complete chat loss seems to occur more often on larger groups. This is not a stable equation, however. I am on several groups in the 2k+ member range, and while on one of them it can be virtually impossible to post on occasion, on another chat usually speeds right through. This is one of those bugs that makes Second Life such a joy to play. (note the puddle of dripping sarcasm there.)
This issue is old but it's BACK. Using a conference chat session it starts of clean but continually slows down more and more as time continues making a conference almost unbearable. After a while all I get is error messages How ever direct person to person chats work just fine. I'm frequently in chat with people using voice and would need to respond with some fair amount of speed. I've had to open multiple conference sessions one after another just to refresh and get some response time back! HIGHLY annoying.
Second Life 1.22.11 (113976) Mar 6 2009 16:05:03 (Second Life Release Candidate) @Icon
Actually this problem has been ongoing and quite consistantly aggrivating. All of us should encourage all Group members to login to JIRA and vote for this since it seems that there is a minimum number of votes required before the Lindens actually assign someone to work on a problem. Personally I do not understand why something a fundemental as Group chat has be allowed to be Broken this badly for this long (20 months and counting), One hopes that this problem will not be treated like the group proposal voting issue ( http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1146 Originally reported in June 2007; still causing issues today. Why has this not been fixed? I have had Lindens in group chat say "yes this is horrible isn't it" - this is not an unknown issue.
There is absolutely no excuse for this not having been fixed apart from "we don't rate this very highly", I'm sorry. And not rating it highly indicates a fundamental failure to appreciate the point of Second Life. Communication is absolutely essential. I keep hearing that LL are aware of the "group problem" yet nothing ever gets done about it. It is as bad as it was, well, when this bug was reported. Not only is this issue older the June 07 (I've been playing since October 2006, and the issue existed before I started playing), but this is one of a few issues that have been around since before I started playing; some have barely been addressed, most have not been improved upon as of this date, and none have really been provided with even a bleak out-look for the extended future.
This issue has been going on as long as I've been in SecondLife. Groups are a major part of the social glue that holds SL together. When group chat is dead, something essential is missing from my SL experience. Perhaps WorkingOnIt Linden needs some assistance? Or a few cups of coffee?
Added my vote. 3-4 min delay is not that unusual. Then a few minutes later, messages are instantly posted.
Now on 1.23.3 nearly 2 years now. This is really not satisfactory folks.
I would suggest sending a message to the Help Groups, but then... do you see the irony there.... Personally for me, the groups that have over 30-40 people I cannot get group chat to work, I have a few thoughts to this end ( being constructive as well as sarcastic) :-
As Hope has said, the time take to sort this out is terrible. Lindens say : Sort it out people ! I will point out that this issue appears to date back to mid April 07 http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-513
 , so we're over 2 years and counting. The lindens break things and then refuse to fix them (http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-13636) then they wonder why people are leaving in Droves. Alright folks two full years now. for crying out loud enough is too much!!!!!!
It seems that the labs are in fact working on this Interesting, a change and for the worse no less.
Now sometimes when you get an incoming message in a Group chat that you didn't have open 9that is this is the first message to the group since you logged in) you get the following pop up: Unable to start chat session with <the name of the group> reason: session no longer exists However the message is there and the Group chat session is open Also sending a message to groups occasionally results in the following popup: Unable to send message to [Recipient] [Recipient] is the text in the message. Showing the [Recipient] message when trying to send to Group
It is ridiculous when you need to send the same message 4 or more times before it finally goes through.Then the related issue of the Unable to start session as well as groups not opening properly. I mentor in one of the RP sims in SL and this is becoming a major issue with trying to get people to help. It affects all of my groups with the RP sim but not one of my fashion groups...go figure.
This is happening on all group chats that I've seen, including user-made ones with only 3 people in it. Im in NCI Scripters atm and am losing most of my posts to it, and there are only 20 people online in there.
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Bug
Reopened
Critical
Group Chat Delays
