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Maggie Darwin added a comment - 27/Apr/09 01:24 PM
Removing 1.23 RC because there is no 1.23 RC yet
Maggie, yest there IS a 1.23.0 RC. It was just released today, and it DOES have this bug!
I have to agree, the changes to the pie menu seem arbitrary and completely unnecessary. Well, there is an RC now.
 There wasn't on 4/27. 1.23 RC added back in. And now I've run it, and you're right: the new pie menus stink.
I mean, they'd lost usability over the last few releases, but this...gack. Tofu, can you change this to a meta issue please? since it seems to be becoming one...
I am a professional fashion/runway model and this bug makes life extremely harder for me on a daily basis... Seems to me all the highly paid techies out there need to STOP messing with things that work fine already, and just try to fix the stuff that's broken! Why make things more difficult in an ALREADY difficult life? Ugh
Voted because this change is completely unnecessary. Solution: Return to how it was.
I totally agree that this would make building, editing and customizing rather difficult, especially for people that use the mouse a lot more than the keyboard.
Side note: Wouldn't it be nice if people could just customize their own pie menu? Hooooo, i really hate the new pie menu so much. Its so difficult now and uncomfy to me. Why you messed it up? it was working fine since 2006 to me and now its extreme harder to use it. PLEASE PLEASE return back to how it was before. Its a pain to use it.
This is the worst thing I've seen you come up with. PLEASE return edit to the first window! I hate it so much I'm going back to the regular client.
I know this makes it easier on confused newbies who can't find their profile or Edit Appearance when they're wearing a fully primmed avatar. However, the vast majority of avatars use the base mesh, with a few prim attachments. Even furries. Why is this playing to the minority, while handicapping the majority?
Even in the case of fully primmed avatars, you can achieve all the same functionality of right-clicking yourself by going to the edit menu at the top of your screen (Edit>Detach Object, Edit>Take Off Clothing, Edit>Gestures, Edit>Profile, Edit>Appearance) or the Communicate window (Groups, Friends). Most of these things were just as easy to do before, even in a fully primmed avatar, and while editing profile or appearance took just a moment longer, the average user won't spend nearly as much time clicking their profile as they will adjusting, editing, or removing attachments. There is no alternative way to edit attachments as there are for the other options, and the positioning of options in the new pie menu is confusing to the point that many users will still accidentally click Profile or Appearance as a reflex far into the future if this isnt' fixed. Some possible fixes include:
Personally, I would favor the second option being default while incorporating the third. For anyone who doesn't want to wait for this to be fixed, I've attached an XML file that fixes the pie menu to work like the original, plus Touch and More... options, with More leading to a FULL avatar pie menu, instead of the cut down version.
Goes in: Rename the old "menu_pie_attachment.xml" beforehand as a backup, just in case. I apologize for not providing an option for other languages, but this was just a quick and dirty hack to re-establish the level of usability I need to get things done. You are my personal hero !!! Thank you so much, that is a great solution. It works fine !!! Mwaahhhh kisses Larissa
As recently as Wednesday on Metanomics, M Linden stated that LL is "in the process of working on a major overhaul of the SL client." Making unnecessary / unrequested changes to the user interface (UI), that have a significant negative impact on user productivity, prior to the release of the the new client, is foolish at best and at worst, demonstrates a complete disregard for the users.
The release of a completely redesigned client will pose a huge training and documentation challenge for users, the Lab and those of us who provide client training and support. In addition to the hard and soft costs associated with transitioning to a significantly different UI, it will also cost the Lab significant amounts of "good will" capital. In anticipation of this, the Lab should be doing everything they can to build their reserves of user "good will," not squander it on unproductive and unnecessary interim changes. Yes this indeed annoying. Confused the heck out of me when trying to position shoes that I had just created, kept going into edit appearnce.
Thanks Ephyu Reino, for the fix for now, works great. This was my only gripe (so far) about this viewer. Not seen anything else wrong as yet. This change seems to come from an excellent place, I Cant say how frustrating it is for me to have to find my title to click when wearing a lot of prims, and a "more" on the current otherwise unchanged attachment pie first menu will be very very welcome- thankyou! Its just Edit attachment needs to be easily available for new people too. Id rather a return to hunting for my title to click when wearing my field dragon avatar than not be able easy access edit , edit being a feature i use multiple times daily. thanks
Ephiyu -
Thanks. That was driving me CRAZY. It doesn't fix the problem for those who aren't reasonably computer literate, however. *************** Valiant said, "The release of a completely redesigned client will pose a huge training and documentation challenge for users" OMG!!!! How much class material will have to be rewritten? And new screen shots and uploads. Maybe the Lindens could make new screenshots available in the library. This is a very annoying change. I refuse to use this release candidate until this is changed. As a model, I'm constantly having to edit a worn object. This has doubled the work of doing this. Please leave things well enough alone. It's the new additions to the viewer that need to be buried, not things that people rely on daily!
Oh god please put the pie menu back as it was, I'm sick of editing my avie's appearance when I'm trying to edit an object. The changes made to the pie menu are totally unneccessary, so please put things back as they were for this...
We've all become so used to the old menu that everything is second nature and then you come along and make a change that defies belief. How is this supposed to make things easier? Please, change it back!! This was just dumb...I have an extra step for every thing I do now as a creator, not to mention going into edit appearance accidentally every time I try to edit an attachment. After doing this for several years, like playing the piano you develop muscle memory. You've just screwed that up for everyone in SL. Voting and passing this on. Filing this as completely irritating and useless.
"Horribly cluttered" and "Inconvenient" are some of the more polite descriptions I have for the RC Pie menu.
Why do I need: A) Friends – readily accessible through the communications Window as TOP LEVEL items when clicking an attachment? An attachment I'm most likely going to want to resize or reposition, if not "drop" so as to not end up with umpteen copies of it in my inventory from detach - rez - edit - take - wear. Seriously – you'd think more of a "survey" would be taken for any changes to the GUI. I see this as one of the issues with the JIRA "suggestion" system – obscure things pass through under everyone's rader until they're implemented on a wide scale and everyone is left wondering what exactly happened and we have to beg and yell to get things reverted (with the possibility they get shoved down our collective throats anyways i.e. double-tap-run). The image above, "better+pie+suggestion.jpg", isn't a good idea.
While it puts Drop, Edit, and Detach on the top level of the pie menu, it doesn't have them in the places that everyone is used to and will cause a lot of slowdown for experienced users, for whom editing attachments is a reflex. The layout as I have it in the patch I provided is set up so that reflexive movements while editing attachments will still work just fine. However, for the small percentage of users who have a fully primmed avatar with no "skin" showing, the "More..." option provides a fully functional avatar menu, as if you'd clicked your skin. Improving this to Showstopper, because thats what it really is. This is as fundamental as the hippos, don't change our pie menu, we are already used to what we have now! (as we have been for the past few years)
Aeron, This is NOT a showstopper so please do not abuse the system. Please read up on what the definition of a showstopper is before marking an issue as such, but basically showstopper is only for bugs so bad that you either cannot login or that break services that are critical to the functionality of secondlife.
Here's a better pie menu for attachments by Xoza Tyron (I hope Xoza doesn't mind me pasting it here), notice that the ATTACHMENT options are on the TOP menu like they SHOULD be!
The avatar stuff is on the SECOND level. as a builder and with having to adjust about every bit of clothing and hair I buy to my avatar — nothing is worse than wanting to edit the attachment and immediately flipping into appearance mode ;-P
As with all the above mentioned suggestions and resons: please please please get the 'detach' and 'edit' back on first level of the pie menu, doing all the editing takes long enough already without all the detours. Thanks in advance! @Nyomiko Dagger, this stilldoesn't solve the problem of the menu options not being where they've always been, which will slow down experienced users who do things reflexively.
I'd suggest trying the XML attachment to this JIRA out, it has everything the old attachment menu had, and where it should be, but still allows a (more complete!) version of the avatar menu to be accessed by clicking "More..." Also, the More... button isn't at the bottom, where the "Detach" option goes. This is one of those issues I don't always catch right off the bat, but I have to agree with others... The pie menu should be context sensitive, so it is aware of where you are clicking, as it was before. The new pie menu makes it harder for people who were used to single clicking on an item, HUD or attachment, and holding the mouse button down to slide to the option they needed, as it was on the top level, now they have to dig down at least one level to get to what they need, which is extra time... And before anyone says this new menu makes it easier for people with full prim AVs, I will disagree... I have a full prim dragon, that I can see this making things more complicated to do when I want to change things around, not easier...
PS: I would consider this more of a major issue, then a normal one, but that's just my two linden... It effects way too many people for it to be a normal, as it is a major inconvience to be a sudden change... Hopefully the RC is the only place this will be seen, and those who use the final versions will never even see this hiccup of an idea... You changed a good old fashioned American Cherry pie into some disgusting Lemon cherry pie please turn it back to the way it should be!!!! :3
Yes, it was planned in the
Why expend energy on things that worked to begin with?
As a builder this is unacceptable. I understand LL motives, but without builders, there is no SL atmosphere. Why make it cumbersome for us? Please fix this ASAP. Thank you kindly.... Jasmyn I'd like to vote against this issue. I think the menu is an improvement. Even though I build and edit attachments a lot, I like having the same first menu wherever I click on myself. It only took me a day to get used to it. Perhaps it should be an option, but for most people the new menu is an improvement I think.
The only thing I might suggest is to swap "Appearance..." and "Edit...". What I was referring to in my earlier post was the fact that this new pie chart put EDIT under more.
PLEASE PLEASE do not bury the edit function. As builders we need to be able to accomplish things quickly and efficiently. I restate this because I see many have taken exception to numerous parts of the new pie chart. I do see some benefits of the new chart BUT it's not a matter of re-learning in some instances. Some things are just cumbersome and make no sense. It is to the burying of being able to EDIT that I find annoying and cumbersome. And yes we need to make things easier for our new residents too. Can't we find a middle ground? Thank you ever so much Jasmyn using build Second Life 1.23.2 (120258) May 13 2009 19:37:00 (Second Life Public Nightly)
I dislike the missing groups link, I switch groups quite often, and find it cumbersome to have to open my communications window when it was easier and faster to just right click my name and there it was... I am using the 1.23.2 (120258) Public Nightly viewer too. I admit fully with Rhaorth, removing the groups option from the pie menu, when i right-click on my name tag and replacing it with an empty field just makes things more complicated. I am sure a lot of residents used that option to quickly change groups, instead of opening the communicate window.
Please, leave edit where it is. Leave groups in the pie menu.
For anyone who wants Groups and Friends on their self pie menu in 1.23.2, I've attached an XML file (menu_pie_self.xml) that adds them back.
Place in: Remember to rename the old "menu_pie_self.xml" as a backup. LL, can you please just use the two current xml files attached to this issue?
menu_pie_attachment.xml as uploaded by myeslf Between the two menus, things work fine, won't confuse new (or more importantly, old) users, and include the new functionality you seem to think everyone wants, in an unobtrusive manner. Editing attachments is a vital function in SL for newbies and oldbies and it should always be a priority function. Please let the "edit" option on the pie menu as first click. Millions of fingers will thank you!
Please stop taking away functionality LL!
. If you must, make this a preference or having beginning, intermediate and advanced menus. PLEASE bring back "groups" in the pie menu! (1.23.2)
Since not all of us are PC users
here's the location of these files on a Mac ...
/Applications/Second Life.app/Contents/Resources/skins/default/xui/en-us/ You can go there directly from the command line or, if you're not comfortable with a UNIX command line, you can use the Finder. "There are no user-serviceable parts inside" is the general disclaimer when tampering under the hood. One normally finds mechanisms in place to keep people who apparently do not use the program on a daily basis from mucking about with the UI (USER Interface - the U is for USER). Implementation of uncalled for changes like this indicate a weak release approval process. The effort to implement this uncalled for change may have better been directed toward addressing user concerns (bugs and enhancement requests). Unchecked implementations like these, tossed in with a "must upgrade" client (release or candidate) do show a lack of regard for users, and indicate that implementation decisions are not made at a high enough level.
What of people with disabilities, and the solutions they have implemented to operate the program? The "NORMAL" priority assigned to this level is probably insufficient, and needs to be assigned quickly. I hope the pending fix is not the same as it is now in Second Life 1.23.3 (121709) (Second Life Public Nightly).
Compared to the 1.22 pie menu: If i right click on my name tag then i don't get the link to my Groups anymore, which was very handy to quickly change groups instead of using the Communicate window. I don't see any sense replacing a useful option with a blank field. If i right click on a worn attachment, then the detach option changed place. Instead now there is Appearance. This leads to keep getting into Appearance mode, when all i wanted to do is detach an item. It might be good for not accidentally detaching an item, when you just wanted to edit an attachment, but its a bit annoying as the avatar quite takes some time to do the 180 turn and enter edit appearance mode. That doesn't sound like a "fix" to me.
 Give me back "Detach item" at the bottom of the menu instead of "edit appearance". I dont want to edit appearance when clicking an attached prim, that is a pretty ridiculous behaviour of the menu.
Switch the location of the Appearance and the Detach (ergo put Detach back where it used to be) and then things should be fine, and for the love of god, set the pie menu for HUD attachments back to what it was, there is zero need to change those for this silly reason.
I'm in the land business, and I look at my Groups literally hundreds of times per day. It's very nice to be able to click on my avatar to get to my Groups. It's much more inconvenient having to go to the Menu, select Edit, then Scroll down to Groups. Please put this back the way it was!!!
dessie, With all do respect, I am re-opening this issue becuase despite the promsies it would be fixed in 1.23.4 its not. its only slightly better but it still doesnt work well, it still doesnt mesh with ANY of the information on the KB or other resources. And this pie menu has still gotten a failing grade from most of the testers.
if you wont use the 1.22 menue then please use the second verion mccabe used (not the one in rc 1 and rc 2 of 1.23). Its really confusing, allot of people are having trouble with it. biggest complaints as listed in the mentor group, in bsi chat, and in two rp groups im in: 1) the appearance is moved I think it is fine for LL to change stuff all the time and try new ways of doing things. But at present the Pie menu that you get when you right-click yourself has two blanks in it. One is where Friends use to be, and I don't know what the other was, apparently something I never used, apparently Gestures?. Nayhow, it's wasteful to have an absence of function before having new functions. And this will be really confusing for newbies who just learned to use the pie menu. The other way of getting at Friends list, through the Communicate button, is indirect, and not obvious, and oddly bothersome. Please complete the design of new features before obliterating old ones that work just fine. Jeez.
Cummere Mayo, while I'm not upgrading the issue, for me this DOES break functionality, AND render it completely impossible for me to use 1.23 viewer AT ALL. I'd say that's showstopping--if I'd rather NOT log in than have to use the crippled, broken, and completely useless pie menu as it now exists in 1.23 (which is no longer RC).
I will try the .xml pie menu fixes, but if those don't work, and this is not changed, my only recourse is to stay with alternative viewers as long as I can, and stop playing if those die. If I can't build easily, if I can't edit attachments easily, if I have to click beyond the top level for buttons that used to be on the top level, if I have to fight my own muscle memory to do ANYTHING...then I cannot play Second Life as it is currently packaged for my use as a resident. For me, that DOES qualify as Showstopper territory. I am highly disappointed in the 'new' layout of the Pie Menu. It is severely frustrating thanks to it's counter-intuitive layout which is breaking a several year old tradition. It wasn't broken, why was it fixed?
Why on earth would you want to change an established UI for no discrernable reason? It's not like the pie menu was full and needed to be redesigned to accomodate new features.
This change seems completely arbitrary and "change for change's sake". I have uploaded the xml files for the old pie menu (from 1.22)
Go to your secondlife installation, subfolders \skins\default\xui\en-us\ |
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Bug
Reopened
Normal
Meta-issue: Pie Menu issues in 1.23 
