[#VWR-11692] Mac viewer with ATI suffers from cyclic pauses/freezes

1. Second Life Viewer - VWR

Mac viewer with ATI suffers from cyclic pauses/freezes

Created: 23/Jan/09 12:55 PM Updated: 07/Nov/09 09:35 AM

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Component/s:

Performance

Affects Version/s:

1.21, 1.22 Release Candidate, 1.22

Fix Version/s:

None

File Attachments:

None

Image Attachments:

1. screenshot-1.jpg
(166 kB)

Environment:

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Second Life 1.22.6 (108361) Jan 20 2009 13:09:06 (Second Life Release Candidate)
Release Notes

You are at 170695.4, 255913.8, 721.4 in Waikiti located at sim4949.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.27.160:13000)
Second Life Server 1.25.4.108489
Release Notes

CPU: Dual i386 (Unknown) (2400 MHz)
Memory: 4096 MB
OS Version: Darwin 9.6.0 Darwin Kernel Version 9.6.0: Mon Nov 24 17:37:00 PST 2008; root:xnu-1228.9.59~1/RELEASE_I386 i386
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO OpenGL Engine
OpenGL Version: 2.0 ATI-1.5.36

libcurl Version: libcurl/7.16.3 OpenSSL/0.9.7l zlib/1.2.3
J2C Decoder Version: KDU
LLMozLib Version: [LLMediaImplLLMozLib] - 2.01.21239 (Mozilla GRE version 1.8.1.13_0000000000)
Packets Lost: 0/3530 (0.0%)

Issue Links:

Relates

This issue Relates to:

VWR-8597 Viewer freezes for minutes at a time

~~VWR-7779~~ Mac viewer suffers from cyclic pauses/freezes/fatal hangs

~~VWR-1749~~ Second Life viewer client permanently freezes on MacBook Pro, requires hard machine restart

~~VWR-6547~~ Viewer 1.20.0.84432 freezes my Mac's graphics card (freezes UI) within minutes when moving avatar around

VWR-12719 Deferred Rendering Meta Issue

VWR-559 Meta-Issue: Freezelag (sometimes but not always crashing viewer or requiring reboot)

This issue is related to by:

~~VWR-12493~~ SL causes permanent display freeze, remote reboot required.

Last Triaged:	05/Mar/09 11:01 AM
Linden Lab Issue ID:	DEV-28461

Description

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(Note: Originally reported in ~~VWR-7779~~, and subsquently determined to be a driver bug fixed by an OS upgrade from Apple to OSX 10.5.6.)

I do not believe that 10.5.6 has resolve the issue completely.
Reports I have heard indicate that while 10.5.6 may have fixed the problem for Mac systems equipped with nVidia cards, it is not the case for Macs that use ATI graphics.

Sadly my iMac (Aluminum, 20", 4GB ram, Core2Duo, OS X 10.5.6) remains affected and it is seriously affecting my SL experience.

My experience shows that this issue is bad immediately upon log-in, then any subsequent teleports seem to cause several long freezes. As has already been reported, more avatars in an area also make the problem worse.

This problem affects both the current release viewer 1.21.6 as well as the RC viewers. I seem to recall that 1.20 was not affected - the problem was a somewhat 'recent' addition addition to the viewer.

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Ramzi Linden added a comment - 23/Jan/09 01:03 PM

hi Atashi:
for clarity on this initial report, can you please post your system Environment by clicking "edit" this issue, and pasting the contents of what is shown in Help > About Second Life...

Do you also experience the cyclic freezing when you use the official viewer, 1.21.6?

Ramzi Linden made changes - 23/Jan/09 01:03 PM

Field	Original Value	New Value
Link		This issue Relates to ~~VWR-7779~~ [ ~~VWR-7779~~ ]

Atashi Toshihiko made changes - 23/Jan/09 01:54 PM

Description

(Note: Originally reported in ~~VWR-7779~~, and subsquently determined to be a driver bug fixed by an OS upgrade from Apple to OSX 10.5.6.)

I do not believe that 10.5.6 has resolve the issue completely.
Reports I have heard indicate that while 10.5.6 may have fixed the problem for Mac systems equipped with nVidia cards, it is not the case for Macs that use ATI graphics.

Sadly my iMac (Aluminum, 20", 4GB ram, Core2Duo, OS X 10.5.6) remains affected and it is seriously affecting my SL experience.

My experience shows that this issue is bad immediately upon log-in, then any subsequent teleports seem to cause several long freezes. As has already been reported, more avatars in an area also make the problem worse.

System Environment:

Second Life 1.22.6 (108361) Jan 20 2009 13:09:06 (Second Life Release Candidate)
Release Notes

You are at 170695.4, 255913.8, 721.4 in Waikiti located at sim4949.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.27.160:13000)
Second Life Server 1.25.4.108489
Release Notes

CPU: Dual i386 (Unknown) (2400 MHz)
Memory: 4096 MB
OS Version: Darwin 9.6.0 Darwin Kernel Version 9.6.0: Mon Nov 24 17:37:00 PST 2008; root:xnu-1228.9.59~1/RELEASE_I386 i386
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO OpenGL Engine
OpenGL Version: 2.0 ATI-1.5.36

libcurl Version: libcurl/7.16.3 OpenSSL/0.9.7l zlib/1.2.3
J2C Decoder Version: KDU
LLMozLib Version: [LLMediaImplLLMozLib] - 2.01.21239 (Mozilla GRE version 1.8.1.13_0000000000)
Packets Lost: 0/3530 (0.0%)

This problem affects both the current release viewer 1.21.6 as well as the RC viewers. I seem to recall that 1.20 was not affected - the problem was a somewhat 'recent' addition addition to the viewer.

Ramzi Linden made changes - 23/Jan/09 04:15 PM

Environment		Second Life 1.22.6 (108361) Jan 20 2009 13:09:06 (Second Life Release Candidate) Release Notes You are at 170695.4, 255913.8, 721.4 in Waikiti located at sim4949.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.27.160:13000) Second Life Server 1.25.4.108489 Release Notes CPU: Dual i386 (Unknown) (2400 MHz) Memory: 4096 MB OS Version: Darwin 9.6.0 Darwin Kernel Version 9.6.0: Mon Nov 24 17:37:00 PST 2008; root:xnu-1228.9.59~1/RELEASE_I386 i386 Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc. Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO OpenGL Engine OpenGL Version: 2.0 ATI-1.5.36 libcurl Version: libcurl/7.16.3 OpenSSL/0.9.7l zlib/1.2.3 J2C Decoder Version: KDU LLMozLib Version: [LLMediaImplLLMozLib] - 2.01.21239 (Mozilla GRE version 1.8.1.13_0000000000) Packets Lost: 0/3530 (0.0%)
Description	(Note: Originally reported in ~~VWR-7779~~, and subsquently determined to be a driver bug fixed by an OS upgrade from Apple to OSX 10.5.6.) I do not believe that 10.5.6 has resolve the issue completely. Reports I have heard indicate that while 10.5.6 may have fixed the problem for Mac systems equipped with nVidia cards, it is not the case for Macs that use ATI graphics. Sadly my iMac (Aluminum, 20", 4GB ram, Core2Duo, OS X 10.5.6) remains affected and it is seriously affecting my SL experience. My experience shows that this issue is bad immediately upon log-in, then any subsequent teleports seem to cause several long freezes. As has already been reported, more avatars in an area also make the problem worse. System Environment: Second Life 1.22.6 (108361) Jan 20 2009 13:09:06 (Second Life Release Candidate) Release Notes You are at 170695.4, 255913.8, 721.4 in Waikiti located at sim4949.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.27.160:13000) Second Life Server 1.25.4.108489 Release Notes CPU: Dual i386 (Unknown) (2400 MHz) Memory: 4096 MB OS Version: Darwin 9.6.0 Darwin Kernel Version 9.6.0: Mon Nov 24 17:37:00 PST 2008; root:xnu-1228.9.59~1/RELEASE_I386 i386 Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc. Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO OpenGL Engine OpenGL Version: 2.0 ATI-1.5.36 libcurl Version: libcurl/7.16.3 OpenSSL/0.9.7l zlib/1.2.3 J2C Decoder Version: KDU LLMozLib Version: [LLMediaImplLLMozLib] - 2.01.21239 (Mozilla GRE version 1.8.1.13_0000000000) Packets Lost: 0/3530 (0.0%) This problem affects both the current release viewer 1.21.6 as well as the RC viewers. I seem to recall that 1.20 was not affected - the problem was a somewhat 'recent' addition addition to the viewer.	(Note: Originally reported in ~~VWR-7779~~, and subsquently determined to be a driver bug fixed by an OS upgrade from Apple to OSX 10.5.6.) I do not believe that 10.5.6 has resolve the issue completely. Reports I have heard indicate that while 10.5.6 may have fixed the problem for Mac systems equipped with nVidia cards, it is not the case for Macs that use ATI graphics. Sadly my iMac (Aluminum, 20", 4GB ram, Core2Duo, OS X 10.5.6) remains affected and it is seriously affecting my SL experience. My experience shows that this issue is bad immediately upon log-in, then any subsequent teleports seem to cause several long freezes. As has already been reported, more avatars in an area also make the problem worse. This problem affects both the current release viewer 1.21.6 as well as the RC viewers. I seem to recall that 1.20 was not affected - the problem was a somewhat 'recent' addition addition to the viewer.

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Awnee Dawner added a comment - 23/Jan/09 11:49 PM

hey!
it seems to be this is back for me (imac / mac osx 10.4.11)
[url]https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-92[/url]

viewer rc 1.22.6:
fast timers open will show 2spikes in pump every ~20 - 30 sec
Sim Ping 150 - 250 (europe)
1st at ~100ms
2nd at ~375ms / ~413ms

a friend of mine (imac / mac osx 10.4.11) has noticed the same 2spikes in pump
Sim Ping 75 - 90 (texas)
1st at ~100ms
2nd at ~185ms

viewer v1.20.17 has also spikes in pump - but at max ~20 - 30ms and dont stall screenrendering (no drop down in fps)

server:
Second Life Server 1.24.10.106829
Second Life Server 1.25.4.108489

viewer: rc1.22.6

os: macosx 10.4.11

machine: imac c2d 2Ghz 1GbRam ATIx1600 128MbVram

i will upload a screenshot

Awnee Dawner made changes - 24/Jan/09 12:05 AM

Attachment

screenshot-1.jpg [ 21605 ]

Awnee Dawner made changes - 24/Jan/09 12:11 AM

Comment

[ viewer rc 1.22.6 / Second Life Server 1.25.4.108489 ]

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Prawnyloks Parker added a comment - 24/Jan/09 05:22 AM

Exactly the same is happening for me too since 1.22.6, but 1.22.5 was fine.
I'm running an iMac on 10.4.11 too...
When I reported these problems via a ticket some time ago I was told that the RC would fix it.
It did up until 1.22.6. So now I'm back to square one again.
I'll have to do a little more testing over the weekend to see if this still affects the regular viewer for me too.

Second Life 1.22.6 (108361) Jan 20 2009 13:09:06 (Second Life Release Candidate)
Release Notes

CPU: Dual i386 (Unknown) (2160 MHz)
Memory: 2048 MB
OS Version: Darwin 8.11.1 Darwin Kernel Version 8.11.1: Wed Oct 10 18:23:28 PDT 2007; root:xnu-792.25.20~1/RELEASE_I386 i386
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: ATI Radeon X1600 OpenGL Engine
OpenGL Version: 2.0 ATI-1.4.58

libcurl Version: libcurl/7.13.1 OpenSSL/0.9.7l zlib/1.2.3
J2C Decoder Version: KDU
LLMozLib Version: [LLMediaImplLLMozLib] - 2.01.21255 (Mozilla GRE version 1.8.1.13_0000000000)

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Danger359 Nightfire added a comment - 24/Jan/09 10:19 AM - edited

I have this problem as well in both the new RC viewer 1.22.6 and the previous RC 1.22.5 . I do not use the official released viewer so I cannot comment on that. The freezes subjectively appear to happen more frequently when I slew my camera in a "busy" environment (many items/textures, and/or AVs). The freeze sometimes takes 1 or 2 sec to clear, other times 5 to 10 seconds.

[** I do not see the problem on my Macbook Pro (10.5.6) in RC 1.22.6, Environment Dual i386 with NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT OpenGL Engine, OpenGL Version 2.0 NVIDIA-1.5.36 ]

Here is my current environment on the computer with the freezing problem

Mac OS X 10.5.6

Second Life 1.22.6 (108361) Jan 20 2009 13:09:06 (Second Life Release Candidate)
Release Notes

CPU: 4 x i386 (Unknown) (3000 MHz)
Memory: 4096 MB
OS Version: Darwin 9.6.0 Darwin Kernel Version 9.6.0: Mon Nov 24 17:37:00 PST 2008; root:xnu-1228.9.59~1/RELEASE_I386 i386
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: ATI Radeon X1900 OpenGL Engine
OpenGL Version: 2.0 ATI-1.5.36

libcurl Version: libcurl/7.16.3 OpenSSL/0.9.7l zlib/1.2.3
J2C Decoder Version: KDU
LLMozLib Version: [LLMediaImplLLMozLib] - 2.01.21260 (Mozilla GRE version 1.8.1.13_0000000000)
Second Life 1.22.6 (108361) Jan 20 2009 13:09:06 (Second Life Release Candidate)
Release Notes

libcurl Version: libcurl/7.16.3 OpenSSL/0.9.7l zlib/1.2.3
J2C Decoder Version: KDU
LLMozLib Version: [LLMediaImplLLMozLib] - 2.01.21260 (Mozilla GRE version 1.8.1.13_0000000000)

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Prawnyloks Parker added a comment - 25/Jan/09 12:21 PM

Thought I should just point out that the freezes us Mac users are suffering from are much worse with higher concurrent users online. I personally was working away with virtually no freezes earlier on today. As soon as it gets to 60,000 users though, freezes start and get worse as more log in.
So far other than the Cool SL Viewer 1.19.0.5 (which seems not to like my sculpties) and the OnRez viewer I've not found a viewer I can use to fix this problem.

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Atashi Toshihiko added a comment - 04/Feb/09 12:02 PM

In an attempt to find any clues about this problem, I have tried running a SecondLife client that was compiled for debugging - i.e. I have compiled the 1.21.6 viewer from source using the Release with Debug target, then run the program with the XCode console open.

When the freezes happen, there are no errors or messages of any kind abnormal output in the debugger. For that matter, nothing happens in the debugger before, during, or just after the freeze.

I really think this has to be caused by some problem happening between SL and the ATI drivers - something has changed with SL 1.20, has remained changed in 1.21 and 1.22(RC) and whatever this something is, it does not play well with ATI. 1.19 and earlier did not suffer these freezes (at least not for me) but something has definately been introduced since 1.20 which is causing this.

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Awnee Dawner added a comment - 05/Feb/09 03:14 PM - edited

hey!

pumpbug still happens with rc 1.22.8 - pump spikes -> fast timers (no input, screen freezes for half a second, feels and looks like an autoscreenshot every 10 - 30 sec)

sl viewer v 1.21.6 has the same pump spikes ~ 400 - 500ms -> fast timers
sl viewer v.1.20.17 is the last working viewer for me (pump spikes ~ 20 - 50 ms doesnt freeze the viewer)

im sorry to say this, but v1.21.6 and rc1.22.x are showstoppers for me, its impossible to

play in combatsims
fly a plane
drive a car

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spyVspy aeon added a comment - 26/Feb/09 02:02 PM

Second Life 1.22.10 (112620) Feb 20 2009 17:09:57 (Second Life Release Candidate)
Release Notes

You are at 256828.2, 301503.6, 3601.8 in INSILICO SOUTH located at sim2906.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.19.149:13002)
Second Life Server 1.25.5.109327
Release Notes

CPU: Dual i386 (Unknown) (2400 MHz)
Memory: 3072 MB
OS Version: Darwin 9.6.0 Darwin Kernel Version 9.6.0: Mon Nov 24 17:37:00 PST 2008; root:xnu-1228.9.59~1/RELEASE_I386 i386
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO OpenGL Engine
OpenGL Version: 2.0 ATI-1.5.36

libcurl Version: libcurl/7.16.3 OpenSSL/0.9.7l zlib/1.2.3
J2C Decoder Version: KDU
Audio Driver Version: FMOD version 3.750000
LLMozLib Version: [LLMediaImplLLMozLib] - 2.01.22056 (Mozilla GRE version 1.8.1.13_0000000000)
Packets Lost: 484/163615 (0.3%)

With same problems, lacks me up when I do Machinima :/

I can not remember how many times since 5 months I've sent the crash report (doesn't seems to had this fixed in medium period of time...)

Alexa Linden made changes - 05/Mar/09 10:57 AM

Last Triaged

04/Mar/09 10:57 AM

lindenrobot made changes - 05/Mar/09 11:01 AM

Last Triaged	04/Mar/09 10:57 AM	05/Mar/09 11:01 AM
Linden Lab Issue ID		DEV-28461

Ellla McMahon made changes - 07/Mar/09 11:55 AM

Link

This issue Relates to ~~VWR-1749~~ [ ~~VWR-1749~~ ]

Ellla McMahon made changes - 07/Mar/09 11:58 AM

Link

This issue Relates to VWR-559 [ VWR-559 ]

Ellla McMahon made changes - 17/Mar/09 04:46 PM

Affects Version/s

1.22 [ 10430 ]

Ellla McMahon made changes - 17/Mar/09 04:49 PM

Link

This issue is related to by ~~VWR-12493~~ [ ~~VWR-12493~~ ]

Ellla McMahon made changes - 20/Mar/09 08:26 AM

Link

This issue Relates to VWR-8597 [ VWR-8597 ]

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Prawnyloks Parker added a comment - 24/Mar/09 01:46 PM

This problem still plagues the latest standard viewer 1.22.11. As usual things appear to be worse, more freezes and for longer, when higher numbers of users are online. The only viewer I can consistently use is the 1.20.17 viewer, but I understand these older viewers are soon to be dropped from support. This problem really needs fixing urgently now!

Ellla McMahon made changes - 02/Apr/09 07:52 AM

Link

This issue Relates to ~~VWR-6547~~ [ ~~VWR-6547~~ ]

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kantbe thursday added a comment - 03/Apr/09 11:18 AM

I'm considering a Mac Pro with either the NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 or the ATI Radeon HD 4870. I make videos of SL, and also surf. I've been told the GT 120 is pretty under powered, but these postings of ATI issues makes me nervous about that choice. Does anyone know of any experiences with this specific ATI card? TIA

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Burgess Miles added a comment - 06/Apr/09 01:55 AM

For me it's also a new 'feature'. I freezed a lot before, say 1.19, and then not...but now on 1.22 freezing is back with a vengence. I'm running 10.5.6 and gfx card is ATI. Freezing is very annoying and frequent making it very hard to sail and fly and stuff like that.

Boy Lane made changes - 07/Apr/09 02:57 AM

Link

This issue Relates to VWR-12719 [ VWR-12719 ]

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Boy Lane added a comment - 07/Apr/09 02:58 AM

Linked to deferred rendering meta issue VWR-12719.

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trixie darwin added a comment - 21/May/09 11:54 PM

this current viewer 1.22 is practically unusable for a Mac user- freezes every 5 or less minutes apart, no less than 3 full crashes in less than a half an hour. even with vob turned off and draw dropped down to like 66 I am running an imac 10.5.7 with an ATI 128mg . version 1.20 ran smoothly for me with very few glitches- I held out til the very last minute to change over due to these problems- it renders sl pretty much inoperable for me..;(

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Prawnyloks Parker added a comment - 07/Nov/09 09:35 AM

Just wondering if any more has been done to resolve this issue. Things have been gradually deteriorating for me over the last couple of weeks again. Doesn't seem to make any difference if I run the regular viewer or Emerald. Things are pretty unbearable yet again.
For a problem that is critical for Mac users, this is taking far too long to be resolved!