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Issue Details (XML | Word | Printable)

Key: VWR-1080
Type: New Feature New Feature
Status: Open Open
Priority: Low Low
Assignee: Unassigned
Reporter: LaeMi Qian
Votes: 167
Watchers: 24
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1. Second Life Viewer - VWR

Toggle spandex, aka toggle avatar mesh clothing between form-fitting and loose-fitting

Created: 04/Jun/07 02:41 PM   Updated: 06/Jun/09 11:22 PM
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Component/s: Avatar/Character, Graphics, User Interface
Affects Version/s: None
Fix Version/s: None

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 Description  « Hide
As commented by Aimee Congrejo in response to a not related clothing feature request (VWR-1064), the 'wet T-shirt' look of bust-hugging clothes is not always desired.

Problem: Avatar mesh clothes hug the body like spandex, whereas real clothes don't. Tension created by the various curves and protrusions on the human body (e.g. breasts, arms, legs) cause most fabrics to span the gaps between the peaks and troughs of said curves/protrusions.

Solution: Ability to control/toggle the degree with which avatar mesh clothing follows the surface of the avatar mesh

Example 1: T-Shirts
Typically, RL t-shirts do not follow the surface of the skin entirely. The current rendering system gives the avatar mesh shirts the appearance of having every avatar competing in a wet t-shirt competition.

Example 2: Skirts
When wearing a long flowing skirt while sitting on the ground, the material over the knees will likely be stretched across the gap, or sag slightly. Also, the material on the opposite side will likely bunch/collect together. The current rendering system gives the avatar mesh skirts the slightly un-realistic effect of not obeying gravity all that much. This effect may or may not be produced by client-side physics code.

Example 3: Pants
Mesh pants give the effect that every avatar has been given a wedgie.



 All   Comments   Change History      Sort Order: Ascending order - Click to sort in descending order
LaeMi Qian added a comment - 04/Jun/07 02:57 PM
Changed "Fill Cleavage" to "Span Cleavage" as it seems more end-user explanatory.

Aimee Congrejo added a comment - 05/Jun/07 11:45 AM
Voted! LOL

Haravikk Mistral added a comment - 07/Jun/07 10:30 AM
Voted. But we really needed an identical option for trousers as well, as most people in real life DON'T wear their trousers stuffed into their butt-crack as though they just had a damned good scratch.

Subversive Writer added a comment - 07/Jun/07 10:40 AM
Strong Agree. A checkbox is not enough, this needs a slider just like everything else. It would be related to the "tightness/looseness" slider, but would involve how "form fitting" clothing is.

Aimee Congrejo added a comment - 08/Jun/07 08:25 AM
Changed subject from checkbox to slider cuz of Subversive's comment. Good idea! ^^

LaeMi Qian added a comment - 09/Jun/07 01:36 PM
Edit: PANTS!! ;-P

Torley Linden added a comment - 14/Jun/07 11:59 AM
Sounds useful as part of a fuller avatar improvement project.

Melissa Yeuxdoux added a comment - 16/Jun/07 03:22 AM
Speaking of problems caused by non-convex avatar shapes... I hope that some attention will be paid to straps. Straps on tops and on undershirts are now just painted on, being part of the texture, but that makes them look wrong; they should be pulled tight and actually separate from the avatar over concavities in the avatar shape--as they are now, they don't appear to be supporting anything.

WarKirby Magojiro added a comment - 19/Jun/07 02:47 PM
A fuller avatar improvement project...

Personally, I like the idea of small incremental improvements. The dynamic, constantly updating nature of SL is one of the things that makes it so great. I'd rather not wait months for a whole load of brand new avatar tools, when we can get a new one here and there regularly.

Just my $0.02


Tillie Ariantho added a comment - 20/Jun/07 05:32 AM
That would be so much more better... no more painted on clothing, no more ugly prim helpers in front... that would add LOTS for me. Then remove the mountain/valley looks all around the collarbone and I am happy.

Kaeria Repine added a comment - 08/Aug/07 09:33 AM
two words: Camel toe.
I've not checked what it's like for male avatars, but if a female one sits, for example, cross-legged, there is some serious camel toeing going on (think 'skin tight pants' if you don't understand)

General smoothing of the shape like this would work very well for most of the clothes; maybe even allow non-prim mittens! Actual toes would be nice too, and have the same slider for socks/shoes.


LaeMi Qian added a comment - 09/Aug/07 12:18 AM
To sum up Kaeria: Toes are for feet! Not for ... ahem ... other places! ;-P

I must say, there have been some excellent comments adding to my original idea here. Great work everyone. :-D


Angsty Rossini added a comment - 14/Aug/07 08:03 PM
Add my vote to "say No! to bum crack!"

Kaimi Kyomoon added a comment - 21/Aug/07 08:52 AM
We also need the same thing on the butt and the mesh around crotch to stop distorting everything and skirts that don't let our legs and hips poke through when we move.
Don't we need a thread to cover the whole avatar mesh?
If an SL competitor comes on the scene with decent avatars I will certainly b tempted to switch.

LaeMi Qian added a comment - 22/Aug/07 12:22 AM
Hi, than for the comment, I agree wholeheartedly.

Re: thread for whole mesh - that might be good, though for now I have linked this into SVC-345 - avatar improvements Meta-Issue

I wonder if Torley Linden's comment above is a hint? I think such a project is well overdue for the graphics devs. once windlight is in and debugged.


laetitia dayafter added a comment - 08/Dec/07 08:26 AM
an extra piece of slider for skirts poofiness, so theydon't make the butt fat, but are tighter to the body. for male long jackers and bathrobes too... skirt robe partsmakes their asses look like womens

Hazel Dean added a comment - 12/Dec/07 08:19 AM
Oh I would appreciate it soo much.
The whole Tshirt business would change!

Valentine Janus added a comment - 23/Dec/07 05:12 PM
There are whole communities, even mini-nations in Second Life that would welcome this sort of fix. The search for modest women's clothing as part of one's persona is an extraordinary challenge. Part of the issue is, of course, what a number of male users want to look at. Fair enough. But part of it is due to the built-in limits of avatar customization. This would be a modest (pun intended) step forward for clothing diversity--and the number of L$ spent on avatar appearance suggests to me that it's not all that minor.

oryx tempel added a comment - 04/Jan/08 01:19 AM
We need to just say no to crack on jackets as well as pants. I SOOOO hate the way the jackets look painted onto the hiney area.

TigroSpottystripes Katsu added a comment - 04/Jan/08 08:04 AM
camel toe?!?! really?!?!?! could someone please send me an ss or that alleged geometry plz? I've always thought the av's crotch were totally anatomicly incorrect, without even the proper shape for the area between the butthole and the genitals......

Ephraim Kappler added a comment - 06/Feb/08 11:00 AM
I would definitely like to see 'span cleavage' and 'span butt crack' added because they would remove the 'skin-tight' uniformity of clothing in SL. In terms of jackets, pants and shirts - the basics, in other words - men's clothing is pretty much a non-starter owing to the limitations of the mesh. I've been trying to make clothes since I joined and I haven't managed much that I would be prepared to sell apart from some socks and underwear. I should add here that I'm pretty hot with Photoshop but even my best texturing attempts do not work to my satisfaction.

I would like to suggest 'crease shirt' and 'crease pants if it is possible to add these as new features on the outside arms and front and back of the legs. Also I don't understand why we can't 'flare' the jacket bottom slightly in the same way that pants can be flared. The 'skirt' option doesn't work at all.

Furthermore, if we can add 'love' to an avatar's waistline, why can't we fill out a jacket to give the garment more of a 'box' look?


TigroSpottystripes Katsu added a comment - 26/Feb/08 12:55 AM
morph targets ( http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3901 ) will probbaly provide means for fixing this (aswell many other possibilities)

Zoey Helgerud added a comment - 06/Mar/08 11:56 AM
It has always bugged me how no matter how baggy you make a pair of pants, it appears your avatar has a massive wedgie

connie darcy added a comment - 04/May/08 04:36 PM
Can't believe this hasn't had more comments...SIGNED! (& voted;p)

Aeron Kohime added a comment - 04/Jun/08 06:07 PM
This is a good idea. The inside of clothes doesn't quite work as currently the avatar mesh is modified to fit the look of the clothing animation instead of another mesh being layed over it and morphed, probably to prevent peekage of the skin over clothing.

SignpostMarv Martin added a comment - 15/Jul/08 06:27 PM
Reworded the bug to be focussed on problem/solution/example structure.

Would advise people provide any other examples of avatar mesh clothing requiring the toggle/slider control.


Zai Lynch added a comment - 01/Jun/09 07:52 AM
want have! (o.O)

current wet t-shirt contest is eewww....


EddyFragment Robonaught added a comment - 06/Jun/09 11:04 PM
Although this is focusing on mesh clothing I would suggest there being effort made to realize physical flexis. The ability to drape materials over other (non phantom) objects would allow the creation of dresses and coats that hit the back of the legs instead of passing through them and that flow over the form from the shoulders to the ground. This would also allow long hair to not pass through the shoulders of the wearer but to be dragged over the shoulders as the head was turned.

I maybe looking too far ahead here but surely any painted on clothing will alway have an obvious drawback. It is connected to the skin at every point of its mesh. The illusion of looseness would only ever be just that. With physical flexi separate worn items (with the allowance for multiple layers of clothes) a genuine free movement of cloth could be achieved.

Any move toward more realism in a world of make believe is a good idea though (as long as the make believe doesn't suffer as a result) so voted.


TigroSpottystripes Katsu added a comment - 06/Jun/09 11:22 PM
I think wrapping prims around avatar body as well as around other prims has been suggested before, I dunno if it can be easilly found on PJIRA though (I've been having quite a bit of difficulty latelly with finding anything in specific with the search here, dunno if old issues have been erased, or if there is somthign wrong with the indexing or some other part of the search engine, or if the issue is how I'm choosing the keywords, or even if there is pixie (or even pixel) dust clogging my brain or somthing)

I wonder if the code they got on Blender (after a Google event I think) for doing this could be borrowed and if it would allow for enough performance to work with realtime stuff like SL