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Issue Details (XML | Word | Printable)

Key: VWR-1065
Type: New Feature New Feature
Status: Open Open
Priority: Normal Normal
Assignee: Unassigned
Reporter: LaeMi Qian
Votes: 263
Watchers: 32
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1. Second Life Viewer - VWR

More avatar attachment points including a Belt clothing item with 8 attachment points

Created: 04/Jun/07 12:28 AM   Updated: Wednesday 01:20 PM
Component/s: Avatar/Character, Inventory, Scripting
Affects Version/s: None
Fix Version/s: None

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 Description  « Hide
Note: As per Tofu Linden's comment, even if this feature is approved it's possible the increase in attachment slots may be limited to an additional three. Please post in the comments which three additional attachment slots you would prefer.

More avatar attachment points. And an associated categorised (and better organised) menu. New attachments points marked with an asterix* below (I have gone all-out here and not all might be practical, but what you never ask for you never get ;-P ):

Attach to >
--Head >
----Back of Skull*
----Skull
----Hair (same place as skull, but intended specifically for prim hair (so 'skull' can be used for hats, etc)
----Forehead*
----Left eyebrow*
----Right eyebrow*
----Left Temple*
----Right Temple*
----Left Eyeball
----Right Eyeball
----Nose Bridge*
----Nose
----Upper Lip*
---Mouth < depreciated
----Lower Lip*
----Tongue*
----Chin
----Neck*
----Left Cheek*
----Right Cheek*
----Left Ear
----Right Ear
--Upper Body>
----Left Shoulder
----Left Upper Arm
----Left Elbow*
----Left Forearm
----Left Wrist*
----Left Hand
----Right Shoulder
----Right Upper Arm
----Right Elbow*
----Right Forearm
----Right Wrist*
----Right Hand
----Back [upper spine]*
----Spine
----Chest
----Left Pec
----Right Pec
----Stomach
--Belt* >
----N*
----NE*
----E*
----SE*
----S*
----SW*
----W*
----NW*
--Lower Body >
----Pelvis
----Tailbone*
----Left Hip
----Left Buttock*
----Left Upper Leg
----Left Knee*
----Left Lower Leg
----Left Ankle*
----Left Foot
----Right Hip
----Right Buttock*
----Right Upper Leg
----Right Knee*
----Right Lower Leg
----Right Ankle*
----Right Foot
--HUD >
----[as is]

The 'Belt' deserves some explanation:

It is a new clothing item that sits snug around an avatar's waist. Controls are for band-thickness; position (including an option to make it relative to the top of the pants, skirt or independent); left-right slant; front-back slant; colour/texture. It sits inside the jacket layer. Belts, of course, fit the AV snugly in a way a prim loop can't.

Independent of the belt's physical representation are attachments on the belt line (if no belt is worn, default to average belt settings position) at the 8 'compass points' (with North at AV's front). These can be used to carry items such as bags, holsters, prim-based decorations, etc. The north attachment point is an obvious place for a buckle object (or a sphere plus two flexi-prims for a martial-arts belt knot), though a buckle on another bearing is just as possible.

To put on or take off belt-attachments together with a belt, use the existing wear/remove-folder-at-once system with the belt definition and associated objects together.

In the Clothing Pie Menu, moving socks to underwear level would open a space in the higher level for the belt item.



 All   Comments   Change History      Sort Order: Ascending order - Click to sort in descending order
WarKirby Magojiro added a comment - 15/Jul/07 12:17 PM
When I first saw this proposal, I thought it was a bit much..

But now, I've found myself with a need to make scripted eyebrows to complete an avatar.. And there's no eyebrow attach points.

So voting.


LaeMi Qian added a comment - 20/Jul/07 01:08 AM
The suggestion as it is presented likely is a bit much I am expecting a subset of the request to be implemented in the finality. But who am I to say what is and isn't of use - I personally think elbows and knees are a bit much, but put them in anyway ;-D WHo knows what someone else will find useful. QED.

hope antonelli added a comment - 26/Jul/07 09:24 PM
I agree that ALL those may be a bit much, but there should be no trouble in adding a few of those spots. Brows, forehead (I cant remember how many times I've had bangs knocked off by something that quite logically should be worn on the nose or chin) perhaps another for upper or lower lip (for those who like to wear lip jewelry) neck, belt and one finger on each hand (for rings and such) shouldnt be TOO hard to implement. I can also see adding a spot on the tailbone for furries who like to wear tails being quite logical as well.

Haravikk Mistral added a comment - 29/Jul/07 05:55 AM
I think that rather than adding a load more attachment points as-is, we really need just a list of attached objects and can add more potential places for them to go at a later date. But this would be useful to have certainly.

LaeMi Qian added a comment - 11/Aug/07 03:43 PM
I imagine that, while implementing this suggestion on its own would likely be a fair bit of work (sim-side, inventory, client-side all need changing), if the devs were already making changes to these parts of the codebase for VWR-489 (or vice versa) adding some extra attachment points at the same time would be relatively trivial - ie, the codebase is already cracked open for the complimentary suggestion to be implemented, may as well add in some of this one while at it.

So I linked them as relates-to :-D


LaeMi Qian added a comment - 11/Aug/07 03:45 PM
Added 'Tailbone' as an obvious attachment point for... tails!!!

Tofu Linden added a comment - 24/Aug/07 04:39 AM
If you could have, say, three more attachment points (including new secondary attachments at existing points), what would you choose?

LaeMi Qian added a comment - 24/Aug/07 03:35 PM
From others' comments, as well as my own needs, I feel that an attachment point on the neck for necklaces, ties, capes and collars is highly-desirable.

Back (upper spine) is an area with no nearby attachment points.

And I REALLY want the belt line and its 8 sub-attachment points 'cause i'm greedy

(Actually, I recently discovered making a skirt as short as possible makes a sort-of belt, but only if you are not wanting to wear said belt with a skirt - and no attachment points in that, of course

others that might be useful-

tailbone (no real use to me but there are a LOT of furries I know would love this)

a new idea - a 'hair' attachment point in the same place as skull, but to allow hats to be worn over prim-hair.

Ok, I have gone over the limit a bit now, but if limited to 3, I'd say pick any 3 of these 5.


LaeMi Qian added a comment - 24/Aug/07 03:42 PM
on second thoughts, I'd say "pick the collar point and any two of the remaining 4 mentioned" ;-D

hope antonelli added a comment - 26/Aug/07 11:54 PM
1) neck is a definite priority need. Im sick and tired of having to change my collar from my spine to my chest and back again to suit an individual outfit.

2)belts would be good.

3)Either a forehead attachment, or a back of the skull/hat point for (duh) hats and horns for certain AVs


mihai antwerp added a comment - 08/Sep/07 01:44 AM
More body and head attachments would be so welcome!
Especially the body... I like to wear more clothes attachments that possible usually ^^

Teravus Ousley added a comment - 25/Sep/07 10:47 AM
Adding a 'neck' attachment point is REALLY simple.. but it requires that 'every client' get an updated avatar_lad.xml file. The reason that every client has to be updated is because.. if a client gets attachment point 39 and there's no definition in the avatar_lad.xml file, it'll drop it on the ground but treat it like 'attached' for all clients that don't have it defined. Clients that 'do' have it defined, will see it properly, however. For it to become a standard attachment point, all clients need to agree on attachmentpoint ID 39 being the 'neck' attachment point associated with the mNeck joint.

In the Skeleton section of avatar_lad.xml, add the following line under the 'skull' attachment point;

<attachment_point
id="39"
group="1"
pie_slice="2"
name="Neck"
joint="mNeck"
position="0 0 0.15"
rotation="0 0 90"
visible_in_first_person="false" />


Argent Stonecutter added a comment - 10/Nov/07 09:33 AM
Here's what I want to see:

Tail: same position and anchor as the pelvis, but pivoting like the spine.

Belly: anchor and pivot intermediate between stomach and chest.

Left paw: just duplicate Left Hand.
Right paw: just duplicate right hand.

Belt: just duplicate pelvis.

Hat: just duplicate head.

On the HUD: Center left, Center right, Lower Left Corner, and Lower Right Corner. The corner points would move up and down based on the size and content of the chat/button bar area, so you can add new tab-like HUDs.

Fingers: if possible, attachment points at least for the ring finger and thumb (since the other fingers mostly move with the ring finger.

Also, it would be nice to have attachment points that attach to the mesh rather than being fixed to the skeleton, so that things like name tags don't slide up and down on your chest.


Argent Stonecutter added a comment - 10/Nov/07 09:35 AM
Just three attachment points?

That's easy! Tail, Left Paw, and Right Paw.

See previous message for explanations.


Monalisa Robbiani added a comment - 28/Nov/07 10:27 PM
"If you could have, say, three more attachment points (including new secondary attachments at existing points), what would you choose? "

As a furry my answer would be this: One for the tail (pelvis and stomach are not enough) and one for each hand. I always lose my paws when I hold something.


WarKirby Magojiro added a comment - 29/Nov/07 06:28 AM
We don't need extra hand/paw attach spots, because there's already an issue open for multiple attachments per spot. This is about having new places to put things.

I think tail is of prime importance, and eyebrows. lower spine would be useful, too.


Haravikk Mistral added a comment - 13/Dec/07 02:24 AM
My thoughts on this is that a "middle" attachment point would be extremely useful. Basically an attachment point between the pelvis and chest spots, as it is currently very difficult to make full-prim avatars and armour that work well with some animations, as the pelvis and chest pieces will sometimes "split". If we had one that was in between in both positioning and angle then it would be ideal.

I think that most of the others can be simulated as Argent points out; paws are just hands, tail is just pelvis/stomach, more attachments on these points is a separate issue.

But a "middle" attachment point is something that we're lacking.

I'm building a full-prim av that looks great on most animations, but on some it looks like its either having a very conical baby (the overlap of the pelvis and chest is sticking out in front to make a "point"), or has a hunched back (sticking out the back instead).

It's strange because it seems that the avatar model does indeed have separate chest, stomach and pelvis, but the stomach attachment point is identical to the pelvis, rather than corresponding to the actual stomach used in animations.


Tami Teebrook added a comment - 17/Dec/07 08:57 AM
I would like the additions of "groin" and "waist" to the lower body section. This should reslove some conflicts with prim skirts and other less mentionable items.

Also, neck would resolve collar issues that currently use chest, chin or spine attachment points.

I like the idea of adding granularity to the human body rather than mutliple attachments for one attachment point. The UI would not have to change other than additional pie slots.


Lanita Wingtips added a comment - 24/Dec/07 08:04 AM
A neck attachment point would be useful and I think especially there should be more attachment points for the torso.

Bailey Nirpaw added a comment - 25/Dec/07 07:47 AM
>> If you could have, say, three more attachment points (including new
>> secondary attachments at existing points), what would you choose?

If I had to pick three, then I would say:

(1) Neck: definitely needed for items like collars

(2) Tailbone (a.k.a. the coccyx): those of us playing anthros, dragons, or other non-humanoids definitely could use a proper tail attachment point.

...

Actually, I think just those two would do it for me, especially if combined with the ability to attach more than one item to a given point. I can see how the proposed "Belly" attachment could be useful, though, so I'll put in my two cents (or L$s ) for that one as well.


Ferro Rau added a comment - 14/Jan/08 04:19 AM
>> If you could have, say, three more attachment points (including new
>> secondary attachments at existing points), what would you choose?

1) Neck
2) Tailbone
3) Crotch

but; I think there should be (at least) one more attachment point in the hip region - freeing stomach as attachment point for skirts...


marissa akula added a comment - 28/Jan/08 11:46 PM
neck, tail and paws...

neck: collars, necklaces... these are totally ignored right now, thought they are very common. make about 15% of purchases a horror!

tail and paws: not a furry personally, but these would be a huge boon to them, can't hold objects, cause their hand slots are taken up by paws... can't wear all the available clothing items (skirts etc) due to pelvis/tummy conflicts with the tail...

so three places... guess that's technically four but, those are my choices!


Shyotl Kuhr added a comment - 29/Jan/08 02:12 PM - edited
It really seems odd that neck isn't an option... still. It's already implemented in avatar_skeleton.xml. All that needs to be done is adding
<attachment_point
id="39"
group="6"
pie_slice="4"
name="Neck"
joint="mNeck"
position="0 0 0"
rotation="0 0 0"
visible_in_first_person="true" />
into the attachments section in avatar_lad.xml. The sims already work fine with this addition(since they don't care about attachment id), and the attachment point appears to work fine visually, for the most-part. I'll note that it isn't useful for objects such as loose necklaces in its current state since the point moves and rotates with the neck, and as such anything hanging over the chest will slide inside the chest when looking down.

Is there any particular reason why this is being held back/wasn't fully implemented to begin with?


Jayne Ariantho added a comment - 04/Feb/08 09:47 AM
Neck (seriously, why isn't it there already?), tail / lower back and paws / 2nd points for hands are my 3 choices.

the neck attatchment point is the reason i looked this up, but i can understand the need for others.

I hope its looked at and stuff added soon


Kettu Keiko added a comment - 07/Feb/08 11:17 AM
hehe i remember bringing this up in the forums (calling for doubling the existing attachment points as a "Wear with..." option
way before JIRA existed.

I definitely vote for this. please add Left Palm and Right Palm or Left Hand2 and RightHand2 or something to double the
hand points for those with paws - furry or mechanical or otherwise..


Nizzy Lusch added a comment - 18/Feb/08 07:15 AM
[WarKirby Magojiro] "We don't need extra hand/paw attach spots, because there's already an issue open for multiple attachments per spot. This is about having new places to put things."
  • Well, all avatar bone parts already have one or more attachment slots, so anything you could possibly suggest would be 'duplicates'.

I think hands/paws would be a good choice, so you can wear mittens/rings/paws/whatever and still hold a cup of coffee.
Additionally, the pelvis and chest bones could use more spots for clothing-enhancing prims. Pelvis for tails, Chest for necklaces/ties/etc, since the neck attachment slot moves around too much for this job.


Kahlest Enoch added a comment - 08/Mar/08 12:51 PM
Tofu Linden,
If I had to pick 3 more they would be back of skull, upper back and tailbone. I am tired of having to deal with things detatching when I try to wear something and it attaches to spine and takes something else off with it.

Shattered Howlett added a comment - 29/Mar/08 01:47 PM
At the very least, I'd appreciate a second attachment point on the hands. Most attachment issues I have worked around myself (for example, my tail attaches to my stomach, leaving my spine free for other things, and prim skirts go on my pelvis), but I have to attach weapons to my left forearm instead of my left hand, so that I can keep wearing my wedding ring, and consequently the left side can look pretty silly.

Winter Ventura added a comment - 05/May/08 09:45 PM - edited
it is important to note, that the "pec" attachments are incorrectly named. While the "pec" hardpoints have their <0,0,0> located up near the breasts, they are in fact anchored to the "belly / lower back" section of the avatar.

If you think of it in terms of the model in Avimator, the "pec" hardpoints move with the center torso, the part between the ribcage and pelvis.

What I really want, ASIDE fro those mentioned above... is an attachment hardpoint (or two) that moves WITH the jaw! So when the avatar opens its mouth, the attachment should follow. This would make it a lot easier to make convincing mouth animations on furries, as well as to have convincing labret and lip piercings, lower vampire/neko fangs, etc.


Aeron Kohime added a comment - 04/Jun/08 06:09 PM
@Tofu
Probably another pelvis slot, and another left and right hand. It seems to get quite a few votes here.

Strife Onizuka added a comment - 05/Jun/08 12:48 AM
Definitely a tail attach point, possibly on it's own bone so it can be gasp animated with animations.

You know, I may just do this one myself.


Allegory Malaprop added a comment - 06/Jun/08 03:30 PM
1) Neck. It's is ridiculous that it's the only part of the av to not be able to attach to- and yes, it becomes really obvious with things that ought to attach to the neck joint, not the chest. It's a very annoying dead zone, and shy of providing an animation overrider on a timer to keep it immobile, there's no way to really attach things to the neck without huge mess (not that that isn't messy from both a lag and aesthetic standpoint).

2) Waist. Actual midsection has the left/right pecs, but these are...painful to work with. They don't center, so you're stuck having to completely fix everything with a different av shape. I'm already walking around itching to fix other people's attachments enough as it is. (Besides, no one uses the pecs for what they are anyway, they're generally used as invisi unused points, or to attach floaters- in part due to the fact they are off center, and people don't seem to know where they actually attach to.)

As for three, it's hard to choose between another chest/spine attachment point (useful for jewelry/collars/etc.), another head attach (you'd think with as many as there are there are enough...but it really still isn't, especially for convenience sake, having to switch that chin to a nose or mouth with this outfit because those things conflict), and another stomach/pelvis (tails, skirts, belts, etc.). I'd love yet more, of course, but those are the ones that immediately cause the most problems.

As the jaw movement is mesh based, I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. I see it as being substantially more difficult than a simple attachment point (same with making a hand attachment point that could actually keep track of fingers).


Lupercaleb Walcher added a comment - 14/Jun/08 12:36 PM
if i could have only three extra attachment points, i would choose a "left handed hold" and a "right handed hold" or whatever you would call extra left and right handed attachment points. i'm very grateful for all the extra attachment points we have for our head and body, but i'm thinking the hands need some love too.

and for a third attachment point, i would have to say a jaw of some sort, to move with the lip syncing (beta)


Viridian Exonar added a comment - 06/Aug/08 11:51 AM
It would be nice for all of us neko and the furries to have attachment points on the fingers in order to have semi-realistic paw hands and or claws for those that don't wish to be fully pawed.

Attachment points that should be:
-Left Thumb, index, middle, ring and pinky fingers
-Right Thumb, index, middle, ring and pinky fingers

I'm going to vote for this because I think that it would be worthwhile to see more attachment points for those that wish to do more with their avatar than just have useless paws and claws, it does make some nice avatars look rather unlifelike in my opinion.


Katrina Myriam added a comment - 22/Aug/08 04:50 PM
Personally, the attachment points I would want would have to be a tail spot; one on the upper back area, for those who like wings.. and I am truthfully undecided about a third spot.. not sure what I would personally want..

I had an idea of my own, that corresponds to this suggestion.. Perhaps there could be a set up where people could make one or two of their own attachment spots..


June Dion added a comment - 04/Sep/08 12:26 PM
This suggestion was there before JIRA comes in SL, but Tailbone is most important and thinking if it there lot of times, its good for furry but also hybrid.

Phil Metalhead added a comment - 26/Oct/08 08:52 AM
Throwing my vote in on this one. Here I was, creating a very special ring for a special someone, I attach it to my hand to see how it looks, and no sooner than I do, my av puts his hands on his hips and curls his fingers... leaving the ring floating out in space above his knuckle. An utterly appalling appearance

#1: fingers
#2: head/hat/skull (i've lost my prim hair more than once... i'm a gadgeteer, so i like making signs and stuff that float above my head, and if i forget, they end up knocking my hair off)
#3: i dunno... i guess i can give this one to our anthropomorphic friends - a tail spot


Dakk McDunnough added a comment - 11/Nov/08 11:21 AM
I would love to see more attachment points to the HUD as well. OR do like MMORPGs like WoW do - let you open as many HUD items and move them around your screen.

Lisa Fossett added a comment - 26/Dec/08 11:10 AM
I have been aching to have the following 3:

neck
left ring finger
right ring finger


ruthven willenov added a comment - 02/Jan/09 08:19 AM
i'm voting for this and also adding my comment about fingers, we should be able to attach object to our fingers, i haven't worked with creating animations, so i don't know how they work in that aspect, but being able to attach to finger joints, at least to each finger tip, would open up so many possibilites as far as gloves/ gauntlets, manicures, individual rings, etc.

Raudf Fox added a comment - 11/Jan/09 06:51 AM
Of all the attachment points I'd really love to see, it's gotta be the neck attachment point.

Sasha Nurmi added a comment - 02/Feb/09 08:48 PM
def would like this to happend
for hands, wrist, leggs, ankles, pelvis, tailbone, and head, and chest would be nice

Adeon Writer added a comment - 22/Feb/09 10:57 PM
Tofu Linden said:
If you could have, say, three more attachment points (including new secondary attachments at existing points), what would you choose?
(unquote)

1.) Elbows
2.) Knees
3.) Neck

The above three are locations which are "in-between" two attachment points that we already have. Right now you can't make something follow your elbow, for example, it's gotta follow your upper or lower arm. This makes prim clothing hard because you only have two pieces on an arm to work with and you need to make it look good. Same with neck, it would turn with the head, just not as much, and unlike the chest, would at least move some and not remain solid while turning the head.


Chalice Yao added a comment - 22/Feb/09 11:36 PM
I'd definitely love to see neck, yes. Also 'waist' (Stomach and chest get so easily and quickly taken), and last but not least, another one for the head. Those are the three areas where attachment points run out very quickly.

Haravikk Mistral added a comment - 23/Feb/09 04:25 AM
@Adeon; I'd say for armour (as you mentioned in your first-draft of your comment) a proper stomach location would be most important, as with some work you can build an elbow, knee, or neck-piece that doesn't shift too strangely, but with the waist it's almost impossible, as "stomach" is actually just a second hip-attachment point, while you can make a chest and hip piece that overlap, there are a /lot/ of animations out there which result in very odd-looking movements =(

Contagious Republic added a comment - 27/Feb/09 04:32 PM
Taken to its logical extreme, we should be able to select any face off the avatar and "attach to face head.28.17" or whatever the name is.

Give the avatars a limited number of flexible attachment points to do so, but enough to be very useful, and voila the problem is solved!

'cause let's face it, most proposed attachment points might never be used by most users, but they can be critical to the few people using the spot, and some groups will find their intended attachment point useless because it is 2 or 3 vertex away from where it should be for their specific needs.


TigroSpottystripes Katsu added a comment - 27/Feb/09 04:39 PM
that would involve tons of individual points each moving their own way as the av is animated, hm, might produce interesting results if it doesn't consume too much performance

though that would make the system less flexible regarding additions and changes to the av mesh that many people are looking forward to have...


Skinkie Winkler added a comment - 18/Apr/09 11:27 AM
I'm a jeweller which will totally bias my wish list for attachment points, and I make no apology for that.

1. Neck/Upper Spine - I actually think we need two points here, one that moves with the neck and one that is static as per the chest attachment point.
2. Fingers - My "perfect world" wish would be a seperate attachment point for each finger. I'd settle for a ring finger attachment point, with the attachment moving with the fingers, and two hand attachments. A minimum of two hand attachments are needed so people can use one for semi-permanant items that constitute clothing/attire/custum avatar parts like jewellery/nails/paws, and have one spare to attach objects (ie. cups, guns, weapons, boxes). This is especially important if the default attach position remains the right hand.
3. Wrist - with the introduction of sculpties more and more clothing uses prim attachments for sleeves, using up the upper and lower arm attachment points. This leaves nowhere for arm jewellery.

However, if you are going to re-jig the attachment system, it'd be nice if you'd re-jig the avatar mesh at the same time - and when you do is there any chance that fingers could be more.... finger-like? You know, more like tapered cylinders than bumpy twisted elongated cubes with sharp edges? Just a thought...


Brandon Shinobu added a comment - 19/Apr/09 02:30 PM - edited
Three Attachment Points:

A lot of people want "tail" or "paw" attachments, but I think that in the long run since we already have attachment points for those types of things, we need to extend it beyond that into areas where they are really needed and have no support. I don't mean to heartlessly disagree, I know from having a full-prim avatar how annoying it can be to have to mod things onto my prim hands if I want to hold them, but I do think there are more necessary options.

#1. Priority 1, and absolutely most of all: The Neck – Not does jewelry suffer the lack of a neck attachment, so do full-prim avatars, even non-bipedal avatars like the Seawolf Dragons as grand as they are. It would be wonderful to have a neck attachment where objects could be placed, so that either personal items such as collars, necklaces, or prim necks would flex between the head and the torso. There is a very big need for a neck attachment point.

#2 & 3 – Toes. But this comes bunded with something else: a toe joint. I think furries would especially find this useable, since it would allow for much more nicely articulated legs and feet. Toe joints are common in other programs, even standard, and yet are lacking from SL, and this is a disappointment. I would like a toe attachment point on each foot, and a toe joint to go along with it.

My My #4 and 5 would be extra attachment points for the hands, because I really do not like having to mod things to my hands in order to hold them. I'll grant, though, it would also be nice to have another attachment point for the head. (Edited some spelling, my apologies to those I spam).


Stickman Ingmann added a comment - 19/Apr/09 02:50 PM
For the record, a number of the attachment points are already "duplicates." When the avatar animates, certain attachments points move together because that's how the rig is built, and that's what they're attached to. With that in mind, here's a list of attachment points, their attach location, and which ones are duplicates.

HEAD (6 attachment points)
-Skull
-Mouth
-Chin
-Left Ear
-Right Ear
-Nose

LEFT EYEBALL
RIGHT EYEBALL

CHEST (2 attachment points)
-Chest
-Spine

ABDOMEN (2 attachment points)
(Yes, despite the name, these align to the abdomen)
-Left Pec
-Right Pec

HIP (2 attachment points)
-Pelvis
-Stomach

RIGHT SHOULDER
R UPPER ARM
R FOREARM
RIGHT HAND

LEFT SHOULDER
L UPPER ARM
L FOREARM
LEFT HAND

RIGHT THIGH (2 attachment points)
-Right Hip
-R Upper Leg

R LOWER LEG
RIGHT FOOT

LEFT THIGH (2 attachment points)
-Left Hip
-L Upper Leg

L LOWER LEG
LEFT FOOT

So in total: 30 attachment slots, and 20 unique attachment slots.

The only spot we're actually MISSING? The NECK. Everything else has at least one attachment slot.

If we can only have three more, here are my choices:

1. NECK.
2. Left hand.
3. Right hand.

Failing the hands, I'd fall back to:
1. NECK.
2. neck again.
3. Hips.

That gives you at least two attachment slots all the way down: head, neck, chest, abdomen, hips, thighs. And the hips always get more stuff attached to them (just look at the real body – pants, belts, fursuit tails, etc) so having an extra slot can't hurt.


TigroSpottystripes Katsu added a comment - 19/Apr/09 04:34 PM
when using that trick of editing the xml file, what happens if two different clients each got the same number of aditional attachment points on one of the possible attachment point roots, but they're named differently, and got different additional attachment points in different roots?

perhaps if it wouldn't show or would show incorrectly, it would be interesting if we decided on a standart for the custom attachment points, perhaps even a xml people could download to replace the one that comes with the client so at least a certain group of people would already have access to new attachment points that do show right for other people (the way I would use it would be to have the attachments that least want to not be shown on other people's screen in the default attachment points, and then everything else on the cloned and additional points (in the hud it probably wouldn't matter except for things that I intend to transfer for other people)


DMom2K Darwin added a comment - 11/May/09 01:43 PM
Left temple, right temple and definitely tailbone. I see so many with ears and tails these days, they should have their own dedicated attachment points now. I would love a lot more attachment points, but if three is all we get to choose then I want my tail in one place and dont want to have to always reattach skirt elsewhere cause it takes my tail off when I put the skirt on.... I really liked Strife Onizuka's comments on this too.

Softpaw Sommer added a comment - 08/Jun/09 04:25 PM
I would really really love a Tailbone attachment point. Neck would be welcome as well. And fingers. Not all ten just fingers on each hand for a ring so you can wear a ring and hold something.

But above everything TAILBONE.


M4ri1yn Magic added a comment - 22/Jun/09 04:26 AM
I'd love to wear anklets and bracelets while wearing prim cuffs. Unfortunately is not always possible join different items and in some cases you have to deal with the poses/animations.

Ilianexsi Sojourner added a comment - 24/Jun/09 09:44 AM
If I had to pick three, my first choice would be Neck... I have a few shirts which have prim pieces that attach to both chest and spine, so if I want to wear a necklace with them, I have to make a copy of the prim collar and attach the necklace to it.

Second would be Forehead... I have horns, and I have to attach them to the nose point, which means other facial jewelry has to attach to mouth, chin, or ears. It gets to be a pain to shuffle everything around like that, especially if I want to wear glasses.

Third would be Wrists. I also have a set of bracelets that I wear all the time, and it'd be nice to be able to wear prim jacket cuffs without having to put up with the awkward look that I get by attaching the bracelets to my hands.


Cheshyr Pontchartrain added a comment - 01/Jul/09 04:45 PM - edited
Neck would be great, given the large number of ties and jewelry pieces available in Second Life. A second spine or similar rigid attach point would be very useful too. So, given the choice of just three:
  • Neck
  • Spine 2
  • Waist/Tail

For clothing slots, belt and/or tie would be nice. Prim ties and belts look better, but a clothing version will always match your avatar's shape, no pesky resizing required.

@Stickman: We already have left and right hand attachments. Did you perhaps mean wrist to allow the attachment of prim hands without sacrificing the ability to hold things?


Ray McKeenan added a comment - 01/Jul/09 05:12 PM - edited
This is taken from a Readme that is in a Zip file called attachments and it says that it gives114 attach points. The link is here http://pawsome.us/secondlife/attachments.zip I have it and I love it.

this is simple to explain, but if you don't get it, send an IM to Naomi Babcock (I don't mind, really)

no matter what version of SL you use, you get 38 attachments (this is fact)
no matter what version of SL you use, there is a folder named "character" (this is also true,whether you use SL, cool viewer, restrained life, or any other.)
I am not a hacker, i got the info to make this from someone else. It's really not that hard, but LindenLabs won't do it.
SOme people like wearing RINGS or other hand accessories, and also want to wear guns or other weapons, without having to swap attachments (fact)

this will give you 114 attachment points, the standard 38, plus 2 sub-attachments. ("chest", "chest 2", "chest 3", "Right hand", "Right hand 2", "right hand 3",etc etc etc etc!)
and yes, hud attach points ARE included, though i can't say if they work or not, test for yourself and see!

All you have to do is take this file out of this zip

this one-> Avatar_lad.xml

and put it in place of the existing one

now this, depending on your SL version, will be in a certain place, for instance.

c:/program files/secondlife/CHARACTER

See that? Character, ALL secondlife versions have that folder, it controls the attachments.

Now comes the shameless part.

Nobody else will see your new attachments attached properly.
Why? their viewer doesn't have THIS file. SO. give them the link you downloaded it from, put it in your picks, classified, in your main profile page.

Just help give everyone more attachments, and they will see YOURS properly.
Help spread the word, since LL doesn't think this is as important as we do.


Crystals Galicia added a comment - 02/Jul/09 07:18 AM - edited
Thank you, Ray McKeenan, for showing us this mod! I tested it myself, and it WORKS!

To spread it a little easier, here's something scripters will want; the extended constants list for llGetAttached(), llAttachToAvatar(), etc. I tested llAttachToAvatar to ALL of these points, and it worked.

(List removed, will be available here after being fixed a bit: http://crystalserver.freehostia.com/slattachments.php )


Cheshyr Pontchartrain added a comment - 02/Jul/09 08:22 PM
That's great that it works. If I were Linden Lab however, I would take steps to reduce the number of attach points. More than what we have now, yes, but not all of the ones listed above. This hack allows a single avatar to wear twice as many prims as a full sim can support. This cannot be good for performance.

Crystals Galicia added a comment - 03/Jul/09 09:17 AM
Cheshyr: It works, though. x3. And I have faith that people won't be jerks with it, and the ones that are will probably be easy to ban.

Also, I've created an updated version of this mod that fixes the typo and broken Detach> pie menu problems, along with an always-up-to-date homepage. Get it here:
http://crystalserver.freehostia.com/slattachments.php


Cheshyr Pontchartrain added a comment - 03/Jul/09 11:16 AM
Thank you Crystals. We should get this to Boy Lane to incorporate in Cool SL Viewer and Rainbow Viewer.

Techwolf Lupindo added a comment - 03/Jul/09 12:24 PM
Where is ATTACH_NECK? Or is that not possible?

Crystals Galicia added a comment - 03/Jul/09 02:24 PM
Techwolf: So far, I'm not entirely sure adding points from scratch like that is possible. I'm going to run some in-depth triages tomorrow, though, and I'll report my findings.

Cheshyr: I actually did send Boy Lane the notecard, but she hasn't gotten back to me yet. I am, however, also attempting to contact Henri Beauchamp and the Emerald Viewer team.


Cheshyr Pontchartrain added a comment - 03/Jul/09 08:12 PM - edited
Based on the XML file above, it seems clear that this is a simple client modification, and one that needs to get into the official viewer to survive. Given that Linden Lab is actively seeking input on client 2.0 (aka Snowglobe), is there an easy way to link this discussion to a meta issue under the Snowglobe project where it has a greater chance of being implemented in our lifetime?

Crystals Galicia added a comment - 04/Jul/09 08:22 AM
Good news, everyone!

After my triages last night and this morning, the mod has been updated to 1.2. I removed the extended HUD points (they were buggy, not rezzing), but /I added Tail and Neck points/! It took a while to figure out, but sure enough, it was possible! The tail is anchored to the spine, the neck point is actually anchored to the neck, a first for mods of this kind.


Allen Kerensky added a comment - 09/Jul/09 11:44 PM
Just ran into the 114 attachments mods and really like how this works. Would love to see it in main viewer even as a Debug option.
For now, I will add it by hand and stop having to juggle so many HUD attachments that all want the same space.
What a great fix/workaround for those of us that run with a lot of custom tools and juggle a lot until we can merge everything into a single mega-attachment.
This will really help my personal tools development and kudos to everyone involved in getting this figured out, sorted out, and nailed down.
If enough people use this, it will become a defacto-standard... like every other hackaround.

Monalisa Robbiani added a comment - 10/Jul/09 01:15 AM
On a more general note... While I would love to be able to choose WHICH attachment points to use (different avatar kinds have different attachment needs), I can't see any usefulness in ADDING hundreds of more available slots. Even at this point now most people are extremely irresponsible when it comes to lag in big crowds. They show up at a concert with 200 prim boots and 200 prim necklaces. I tend to mute those avatars so my system won't come to a halt. Do we really want those people to be able to attach 200 prims to each finger as well? I say no. Set a prim limit for attachments, but let us decide where to put them.

Crystals Galicia added a comment - 10/Jul/09 05:13 AM
Monalisa: I do agree that people will probably abuse it in one way or another. I would prefer that the Lindens set a total count limit server-side, but the current potential for abuse doesn't feel like a good enough reason to withhold the mod. People with ten billion prims on each point should be banned from public sims anyway, especially if they don't remove them when they're told. I've heard the complaint that griefers could use this mod to attach about three times the sculpties to themselves and run around on a crashing spree, but that would be as simple as using three avatars to the same effect without the mod.

Allen: I'm pretty sure the extra HUD points aren't functional, only the body points. My version of the mod has the HUD points removed for this very reason (although I did leave three of them in as "Scripts 1/2/3", since scripted attachments that you don't need to see are perfect for those slots).


Cheshyr Pontchartrain added a comment - 10/Jul/09 09:26 AM
There is always room for more HUD points, within reason. The original suggestion was over the top, and still is actually, but I could use 2 or 3 more. Actually, I'd rather get a new llCreateMenu() function that puts a real menu on the client. But that is a subject for another JIRA.

Looking at the current list, 8 attach points for a belt is excessive. You can use a prim belt for anything like that. An actual clothing belt is good because it always fits the person wearing it. You can fake it now with the skirt layer, but that prevents combinations such as a trenchcoat with a belt.

I would try to focus on attach points for every movable bone, with multiples for areas that warrant (i.e., hands so you can wield a weapon and still have prim hands.) Though not movable, the hair/skull combination is good for the same reason. Most people have prim hair, and many of them like to wear glasses or a hat as well. And if you're a non-human that's yet another slot gone.

This brings up a question. Is the jaw bone on an avatar moveable? When someone talks, smiles, etc. is the skeleton moving in any way that would allow an attached jaw prim to track it?


TigroSpottystripes Katsu added a comment - 10/Jul/09 04:37 PM
in regards to the concerns about prim (which actually means poly) count, the new client already got the means to automaticly not render certain prims after enough polys have been used (though from what I've heard the default limit is too low and makes important things not be rendered, and the algorithm somtimes doesn't choose the best thing to hide and again makes the wrong decision on what to hide)

Thomas Shikami added a comment - 22/Jul/09 01:24 PM
Here's an idea how to migrate to more attachment points:

1. upgrade login protocol in a compatible way to also request "avatar_lad". Send the normal avatar_lad.xml content with login replies in newer servers and support this in the next mainstream release
2. phase out older viewers not supporting avatar_lad until only viewers using the server side attachment points exist
3. upgrade the login server to add those three additional attachment points.

I'd like to see neck and tail as attachment points. Maybe hair, too. Though for furries, I'd like to have the ability to wear two attachments per hand.


Dorothy Earnshaw added a comment - 14/Aug/09 10:41 AM
My vote would be:
  • Waist
  • Neck
  • "Hair"

By "hair," I mean the ability to have prim hair attachments come up as some sort of special category. The only use of the hair body part for any experienced player is to be bald for your flexi-prim hair. Thus, the Skull becomes usable for things other than hair again.

As a more important note, don't go nuts with these. All these prims will slow performance, and cause very upset sim owners. I picked the three because there's space on the wheel, and they're common.

For the HUD, would some sort of "HUD Belt" be workable? Have a set of tiles or buttons running along the side or bottom or top and have it expand. Many HUD attachments have some sort of expandability now, so this would formalize it, and clean up screen real estate for those not hiding HUD attachments.


Adrian Braumley added a comment - 21/Sep/09 05:37 PM
My Vote, being both in human and Furry av's

Tailbone
hands/paws

Neck maybe... There are a lot of attachments points to the head, and my only issue really had was keeping my hair sometimes, I've always been able for other things to attach to another point like my ears or nose, chin, mouth etc


Sakito Nakamichi added a comment - 04/Oct/09 10:27 PM
First, I would like to say that we really really do need more attachment points, LL.
My vote is for:
1) Neck
2) Belt or Waist
3) Back (Upper Spine)

And if we can get more than that, then my vote is:
4) Tailbone
5) Wrists (Left & Right)


Krupt Kiebach added a comment - 20/Oct/09 07:03 AM
Not to plug aother viewers on the JIRA but Emerald has your extra attachment points, maybe not under the same name but it has them, seeing as i lost faith in LL's ability to keep up with coding a while ago (although i know they do try) i recomend a third party viewer for your extra attachment points for the moment.

TigroSpottystripes Katsu added a comment - 18/Nov/09 01:20 PM
please check VWR-15589 for a suggestion on implementation