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Nicholaz Beresford made changes - 24/Sep/07 11:52 AM
Nicholaz Beresford made changes - 24/Sep/07 12:27 PM
I'd like to propose an alternative, because I don't believe that a realistic 'no resell' could be implemented without breaking existing content.
A "license field" on an asset. The license field would contain the UUID of a notecard (this detail would be hidden... the creator would simply drag the license to the permissions window). The notecard would contain the license terms for that asset. You would be able to see the license terms on an asset (or its contents if it's an object, or its component assets if it's a compound asset like a gesture, skin, or clothing) when you accept it or buy it, or when you look at the permissions on it or inspect it. You would not be able to remove or replace the license terms on any asset that you did not yourself put there. The license notecard would pretty much be a regular notecard, you could even copy it to your inventory... but 'no mod' permission would be automatically applied to the notecard itself if you did. This, combined with the 'may not remove permissions' flag, should cover pretty much everything that 'no resell' covers, and be a lot cleaner, have less effect on existing content, and provide all kinds of new capabilities. The cost would be an extra 128 bits per asset. PS: "scripts have the benefit of being able to include a license header into the script to express the creators intent and this seems to work sufficiently well already with AO scripts. "
The most common AO script is GPL, and yet it's routinely distributed in modified form in avatars that are no-mod without notice. This violates the GPL three ways:
And so far as I have been able to tell, the people doing this honestly do not know they're violating the GPL, and the author of the script doesn't care. It might as well have 'This script is public domain' at the top. The most common flight script also used to be distributed in violation of the expressed wishes of the creator, even by Linden Labs, until I kicked up a fuss about it. My own flight script has been distributed in violation of my license (BSD2), completely innocently. All but one of the people I have discovered doing it have been happy to comply once they knew the terms... they just hadn't ever noticed them. One person never responded, but he's also no longer distributing the script. Seriously. Notices inside scripts might as well not be there, in SL. You need a 'street sign' that you can't miss. Changing the description to be a little more clear. "Copyleft" is the most widely accepted term for this concept.. Creative Commons uses "share alike", but the symbol is a "copyleft" style "c".
Rob Linden made changes - 24/Sep/07 02:02 PM
lindenrobot made changes - 24/Sep/07 02:03 PM
Yes! It irks the hell out of me that those who wish to close their content are well served by the permission system but those who want to keep their content open don't get the same protection.
Not that anything will stop people from copy and pasting scripts and whatnot into a new script with whatever permission flags they want. DRM is fundamentally broken, people. The permission system will not survive on an open grid. Get over it. I like the way this discussion is headed.
I think that permissions in an open grid should be "license based" and only nominally enforced by the system. This will bring SL into line with the rest of the net in terms of the legal situation, and also doesn't put the intractable problem of client-DRM onto our plate as part of the architecture design. That said, I'm also personally opposed to a "no-resale" flag. It brings all the DRM-ey kind of problems back into the picture. Here's what I'd like to see: Inherent support for Creative Commons on objects/textures, as a set of flags that would be nominally enforced by the system (with no attempt to make circumvention harder, i.e. no DRM) Creative commons was designed for non-code creative work, and the GPL/BSD/MIT were designed for code. We should use these the way they were intended. Using GPL and such for non-code work has serious problems, and using CC for code has some problems too. -Jason Interesting idea. Just a note: as you commented, Nicholaz, I don't think it's really necessary to limit reselling. Some licenses, such as the GPL, the BSD license, etc, specifically do allow reselling. You're not going to get away with selling something that's free for very much money beyond a nominal fee to recoup expenses or whatnot, which in SL won't be much at all.
I was using GPL/CC et al just loosely in the description to outline the general direction/intent. I didn't mean to imply that these actual licenses are used. Regarding resale. I would like to see a non-resale flag, even if it's not strongly enforcable, but an addition to an object like it's currently for "no mod", "no copy" and the inablilty to set it for sale with a price would go some way. But I'd like to unlink "no sell" from "copyleft" because they are different things, i.e. I could allow people to resell an object (giving vendors an incentive to sort through the stuff and make it available) as long as the result is still full perm and not crippled for the end user. As an addition: I brought up both, copyleft/no-cripple or whatever and "no-sell" but personally I'm more interest in the copyleft/no-cripple flag, which over all will probably be easier to implement in a coherent way. just thinking about this concept from a technical aspect.
many people don't actually use the, set sale price, on an object, instead using vendors that distribute objects after being paid. how would you stop this because the object has no knowledge that it has been transfered between two people for money, to the system it looks like you just handed them a copy.
Rob Linden made changes - 22/Dec/07 01:59 AM
Rob Linden made changes - 22/Dec/07 02:10 AM
Rob Linden made changes - 22/Dec/07 03:05 PM
Rob Linden made changes - 22/Dec/07 03:28 PM
Rob Linden made changes - 22/Dec/07 08:15 PM
Rob Linden made changes - 22/Dec/07 08:39 PM
Rob Linden made changes - 22/Dec/07 09:32 PM
Rob Linden made changes - 22/Dec/07 09:54 PM
I'd settle for a sticky "allow anyone to copy" that persisted from copy to copy.
Doran: should be "Always allow anyone to copy & transfer", no?
Few more comments: 1. This is misfiled, should be SVC.
Argent Stonecutter made changes - 11/Mar/08 10:17 AM
Opensource Obscure made changes - 14/Jun/08 10:49 AM
It is a copyright holder's right to determine what people are allowed to do. CC/GNU etc are just an option. They are designed to allow sharing and use while still acknowledging the copyright, and still conforming to copyright law and it's protections.
But as the law has changed to keep up with technology, so should virtual worlds. The more options the better. I would like to see a lot more options on the perms system. Perhaps another level, the owner after the next one for instance. That would allow full perms stuff like textures to go to a creator, but automatically customers of that creator would be restricted in the perms they have. I'd also like to see a no resell option, in addition to copyleft.
McCabe Maxsted made changes - 08/Jul/08 07:30 PM
McCabe Maxsted made changes - 08/Jul/08 07:32 PM
McCabe Maxsted made changes - 12/Aug/08 04:35 PM
I highly second this! I'm new to Second Life, have started creating GPL content but am reluctant to release it when the permissions to lock an object (and derivative works) 'open' aren't available.
It would also be necessary to ensure that anyone who creates or modifies the object is credited. i.e. A new owner shouldn't just be able to delete the attribution text. It would be nice to split out "No Resale" from "Give Away" because the Creative Commons Attribution-No Commercial Use-Share Alike licence (which seems to be the most popular CC Licence) allows redistribution but not resale. Having that option would enable us to reuse by-nc-sa content in Second Life. But that's not a dealbreaker and should probably be considered separately. The most important thing is to be able to lock the permissions open for the object and all its descendants.
Sue Linden made changes - 13/Nov/08 12:03 PM
Sue Linden made changes - 13/Nov/08 04:27 PM
Sue Linden made changes - 13/Nov/08 04:41 PM
Sue Linden made changes - 13/Nov/08 04:50 PM
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Thinking this a bit further, it just occurred to me that the "may resell" part may be independent of that. My current gripe with most purchases is the limitation of rights, like I recently saw a freebie store which made items "no transfer" or not being able to reuse parts of purchased objects.
Personally I would not mind someone reselling stuff, e.g. a freebie depot charging a nominal fee for the efforts or sorting out or paying the tier or even making something new out of open parts and earn some money with it, as long as the result isn't limited in end user rights.