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I have a use case whereby the change noted as (2) is MORE than an irritant but a show-stopper for a complex application.
I have created an NFL style football game, to efficiently detect which "team" a player is on players are expected to have group tags active for their TEAM. However, they must be allowed to rez on the land so that they can throw or kick a ball. I DO NOT WANT to have to allow anyone to create on this parcel (i.e. the football field) as scripts must be allowed for any game play at all. Having both scripts and create permitted to anyone is an open invitation to griefing which I have been pretty clear of (for months previously) using the previous settings for the parcel. The intent of the ability "Always allow 'Create Objects'" is the opposite of what you are describing, it allows members with this ability to always be able to create objects regardless of the About Land option. So About Land could be turned off for even group members but these members would still be able to create objects.
Description from the viewer for this ability: Okies if the intent was for Group settings to override Land settings then the borkedness is even worse.
I agree with what your saying Harleen. Since I was unaware of that description I tried to guess at what would make sense to me. My logic included a possible use case where the owner would like to stop the group from editing on the land, perhaps while they deployed something new. This would be simpler than requiring them to edit the role abilities for all roles that they wanted to affect. That said, if thy wanted the land to be more open to the whole group, the check box works just fine. That said, group permissions are the real issue here, If the box isnt checked, group permissions are not being consulted, it is assumes that you don't have that ability..
Wait let's be clear on the issue here. As owner of the island which I have deeded to group, I now have to have group create on and wear the group tag to rez. Previously, and correctly, I had rez rights whatever the settings were. This change means that I will probably have to un-deed the parcels and so all the work that LL did on group roles has become useless.
This is a very frustrating issue in the role play city I am an Admin (and land owner) at.
It does it even on my own land!! I would be grateful if this was fixed in a matter of days. Thanks, Dannoth Dagger. I am still not seeing the issue here, this is by design. When you have this group ability, you can always rez on group owned land. What is this JIRA saying the issue is and what does it want fixed or changed?
@Escort Harleen - as owner of the deeded land i need to have group create on and tag active to rez on my own land. This is not just highly inconvenient – I now cannot constrain create to only some members of the group. This destroys all the work done on group roles and any reason i needed to have the land deeded at all. This is a large reduction in functionality and it is incorrect. "always allow create" in the group roles is now meaningless.
Well, then I cannot reproduce this then, I gave my alt Always Allow 'Create Objects' ability in group owned land, regardless of whether she was wearing her tag she could create objects.
The rollout is incomplete. Has your server been updated yet?
You are at 250710.2, 240715.1, 751.3 in ParrotHead Island located at sim2020.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.16.25:12035)
Second Life Server 1.22.2.89099 Ok we're talking about the same sim version. Create yes, but now get your alt to pull an object from her inventory and see what happens. This is the change to rez rights that makes this release impossible for many, and for which no alternative to "always allow create..." is available
You are correct, this I can reproduce even as myself.
But the original description of this issue does not seem to be about this: This may be so but the right to create and the right to rez have always gone hand in hand for many years until just 24 hours ago when this terminology/distinction was made in the new release. There is no setting anywhere in parcel or group that makes the distinction between create and rez - previously it was "both or neither".
I am not denying that, and I agree they should not be separate and this should be returned to the way it was formerly. I just think the description of this JIRA needs serious revamp, you are talking about avatars WITH "Always Allow 'Create Objects'" being denied rights they had before, the description appears to be talking about avatars WITHOUT "Always Allow 'Create Objects'" having more rights then they should, at least that is the way I interpret it.
I believe I chose a accurate, if not a little terse subject. Always allow 'Create Objects' is required to rez as well as create. This is what it is supposed to do. I can not help the fact that the name of the ability is not very descriptive. When I named it I wanted to keep the name short and too the point. In the description I describe how rezzing is the problem. You're correct that creating objects works fine. However, that is a far cry from functional if you need to put down that nice new bed or couch since you need rez rights to do that.
As far as the choice of tense: I worded it the way because that setting is being ignored. It neither indicates positive or negative, just that it is being ignored. Again, this was to keep the subject short. In the description I go into further detail. Why do I keep the subjects short? Simple, I have been chewed out on numerous occasions for using long descriptions. Not everyone uses high resolution monitors and can read a long subject. So they get quit cross when they cant read enough to identify something about the subject without opening the message in the first place. This all said, I am not wed to the title, I am only concerned that this be fixed asap since it is a huge problem for landlords and their tenants. I don't know if the title can be changed, but if you have a better idea, please feel free to share it. At the very least it may be helpful in future subject creation to understand how this could be better titled. Description updated to make it a little more clear as it seems to be causing some confusion.
I also updated the description to remove my misunderstanding of how a function was supposed to work. Corrected some grammar & spelling.
For those that haven't seen the blog post( http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/06/09/group-permissions-bug-fix-deployed-to-preview-grid
 ), The preview grid has a preliminary fix for this issue as well as two others.
I logged in and tested it and it seemed to have fixed the issue for me. Though to be honest I only tested this issue. Thank you Andrew for the quick attention After testing on 1.12.3 on beta grid, old behaviour seems to be restored.
Including this behaviour: An object owned by an agent who is part of a group with a role, that always allows create objects, can only rez objects, if the owner is connected to the sim. I couldn't test the other behaviours so far, as this would need a similar setup which allows create objects and object entry for the group and another test, where objects should be deeded to group. Fixed as part of 1.22.3 rolling restart...
http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/06/10/rolling-restart-tuewedthu-to-deploy-server-1223/ This appears to have reappeared in the 1.24 series. Specifically, I see it in 1.24.5.96115
To reiterate, when my group-owned land has "Create Objects: All Residents" and "Create Objects: Group" untoggled, I cannot rez objects on my land, even when my active group role is has "Always Allow 'Create Objects'" enabled. It would appear that the group role is again being ignored. The current viewers may be implicated too: This behavior observed in server 1.24.5.96115 with viewers 1.20.15 and 1.21.2 (RC) confirmed on another server 1.24.5.96115, though I observed a slightly different build permission caching bug, where I had to leave the region to regain build rights. Does not reproduce for me, tried in three different 1.24.5.96115 regions, all obeyed the "Always Allow 'Create Objects'" ability.
I've just reconfirmed with another avatar with different group roles (non-owner this time), using a different viewer (Kirsten's R8 build of 1.20.15). Again, the build perm wasn't lost until the av left and reentered the parcel in question, while the about land>options>create objects: group is disabled. I've had two other users see this - indeed, the chain of events that started this resulted from a group owner with "always allow create objects" ability complaining that he couldn't rez anymore. Maybe it is the way I am trying to reproduce it
1) disable Create Objects for Group and All Residents I did not have to leave the parcel for any of this. Profuse apologies for the firedrill - this is a viewer bug that I am seeing, not a server bug.
The viewer ignores the "Always Allow 'Create Objects'" ability when deciding to enable/disable the on-screen build button when crossing parcel boundaries. Even though the button is disabled, rez-from inventory, view->build and the B keyboard accelerator work correctly, taking the ability correctly into account. The bug you're seeing is SVC-3034, I believe.
I have been rechecking this issue each week for the past month or so. I continue to experience the problem. Since it is currently set to "Cannot Reproduce"... I decided to do a full blown test of it and hopefully document it so it can be reproduced.
I have attached testing matrix of the process I went through to replicate the issue with 5 different roles. See file attachments. What I am experiencing is as follows: Obviously if "Create Objects:Group" is unchecked and the resident's group role is not "Always allow Create Objects" then they SHOULD NOT be able to rez or create. However, if their group role is allowed the Create Objects ability then they should be able to rez and create, regardless of the "Create Objects: Group" being unchecked, What it looks like to me is one of two things are happening when attempting to rez or create The matrix shows how I tested each role ability/parcel option combination, the results of rez and create, expected results, and the process I went through each time I changed roles/options. I hope this helps get to the bottom of this. Lacking the ability to use the "Always allow[...]" abilities in combination with the parcel's create object option, makes it impossible to restrict building to only "higher" authority roles. I want my friends and officers roles to have building rights, but I DO NOT want my students or visitors ("everyone") to run up my prim count goofing off. I could not reproduce the tests in the testing matrix, with the "Always allowed to 'Create Objects'" ability I am always able to create objects no matter the parcel options.
@Scooter, could you say how you are testing "create object?"
@Vex, Testing of "create object" was done with a right click, "create" on the pie, and creating a cube using the magic wand. "Rez" was just dropping a previously made cube with a basic rotation script in it.
@Harleen, I experience the issue even when trying your method of testing posted on 12/Sep/08. Is the permission checking done on the viewer side? Maybe this is configuration specific? Does Tping away and coming back fix the issue?
Alexa, I just tried the following and it did not work.
ALT left the group Owner reinvited ALT to group as an officer (with create objects ability) ALT TP'ed away for a few minutes ALT came back onto parcel and still could not create This was with Parcel's Create Objects: Group unchecked. Is the "Always allowed to 'Create Objects'" ability specific to group owned land? As opposed to group set land?
My parcel is set to the group I am testing with, not deeded. Yes, it only pertains to group-owned parcels.
Help description of "Always Allow 'Create Objects'":
I have 3 parcels on different sims that are group owned where all members regardless of role can rez objects this is most fustrating as some ordinary members can rez prims even when build is turned off for that role in the group
change tag to owner which has build turned on in group tp off sim and back and build is on (thats ok) change tag to member which has build turned of in groupf tp off sim and back and build is still on (thats wrong build should be off) The original issue still seems fixed to me.
@Dell - Can you describe your About Land:Options:Create Objects: Group setting? Harleen,
the land ... in the group ... if i turn off build for all and turn off build for group (both unticked) nobody can build not even the owner of the group Second Life 1.22.11 (113976) Mar 6 2009 16:05:03 (Second Life Release Candidate) Quote
Since the 1.22.2 update the ability for group members to rez objects has been broken. Now the land owner must activate the About Land:Options:Create Objects: Group. However this means that all group members now have the ability to rez objects, regardless of the Always Allow 'Create Object' setting. This effectively removes the ability for a land owner to control which group members are allowed to rez objects. Now a location cannot have separate members and builders if that is the desire UnQuote will this be fixed or will we need to have multiple groups to control who can and can't rez on group land? @Dell- Part of what you are describing is a different issue then this one.
This issue is when build for group is off.
This is expected behavior, when build for group is on, all group members can rez and build regardless of the Always allow 'Create Objects' ability. This ability only applies when not wearing the group tag or group build is turned off. From the description of the ability:
This is the issue described here. But it does not reproduce for me, still seems fixed. |
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Bug
Resolved
Critical
Group - Abilities - Parcel Powers - Always Allow 'Create Object' is being ignored.
and I can build and rez objects.
1. Settings being ignored.
2. Group tag MUST be worn to rez.
3. Wrong error message ("not allowed on parcel")
#1 is a clear showstopper. #2 is an irritant, but somewhat logical. However it's a change from the way things used to work. #3 will cause temporary panic as it did in me. Clearly if the landowner toggles allow group to rez OFF, then NO group member should be able to rez (except perhaps the owner).
Maybe what's needed is:
Always allow rez & create objects
Never allow rez & create objects
Rez & create objects depends on Land setting