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Yes it is still happening. And I will invite you
I just reproed this with "Galaxy Cruise" group; I got the failure message too.
Feel free to invite me to more – I'll raise attention on this for our devs. Will do. And thanks for looking into this.
The second group invite I sent only has 3 people in it (well 4 once you join) yet has the same issue. I hope that will help track down the problem. Those two groups are the only ones I find that have the problem in my list.
This is related to
We are working on a fix for this and similar problems, and I don't have an ETA on it but we definitely want to fix the problem of unable to start a group IM session by eliminating the group member lookup when starting a group session. Your help is really appreciated. having this issue (or somthing like it, with the latest clients with most groups (or all of the group members for some reasona ren't talking anymore, except for the Scripters of Second Life group, I know for sure they have activity there I'm not getting :/
(I get this error msg when I try to start a session and don't get any IMs other people send on a group :/ I also see this error message while attempting to begin a new group IM session with Scripters of Second Life.
Last occurrence: Nov-30-07 ~5PM. Also, I've noticed it trying to pull down the userlist while it's waiting to give me the timeout dialog, which then closes the Group IM tab.
Seems to happen more often when there is a large number of members in the group online. It's been so bad for the last week... lots of groups affected, and not just big ones. The worst ones for me are Scripters of Second Life, AW Groupies, and Advanced Scripters of Second Life. Sometimes it takes about 4-8 tries before the session starts, and then it may be hours before a message comes through, after a short time I get an error dialog: "Error starting session with group XXX" (not exact text)
I recently was able to create a session after many tries. However, anything I sent did not appear to anyone I asked. Therefore with regards to "but we definitely want to fix the problem of unable to start a group IM session by eliminating the group member lookup when starting a group session" is not going to be enough as if we do get a session no one sees what we send.
My group FIREHOUSE VIP only 400 members ............past week cannot create a group IM
Earlier this morning I could create a Galaxy Cruise group session. Now I can't again. Is there any progress on this problem? It is really hindering our ability to communicate events and help our residents.
Still having issues and I have not been able to create a session. Is there any update on when this might be fixed???
Sorry this continues to be such a frustration, I'll ask our devs about this today.
I'll also link this internally so we can keep better track of it.
I am in the same boat with DBDigital............been seen almost Thankgiving since the problem has started. On 12/13/07 about 11:15pm SLT, to my amazement, the FIREHOUSE VIP group session worked!!! It was slow................but I doubt it will work tomorrow
Is there any update from Linden? The full name of my group is FIREHOUSE NIGHTCLUB VIP. 20 days and counting.
@Flower, DBDigital, & all: I'm awaiting confirmation of some details back from LL Development. We are removing group member lookups when IMing a group in the future which should help with load on the system.
This morning, I was trying to open "DB & Sundi" group repeatedly. The first time failed, but subsequent attempts worked, but were slow. As a possible workaround, try starting group IM sessions from different regions. Hi Torley:
Tried from another region, no luck. It is frustrating because the only way to communicate with your group members is via GROUP NOTICE. I am almost starting to think of starting a new group. Is there any light at the end of the tunnel? @Flower: I'm sorry this continues to be so upsetting, argh. I haven't heard more details back yet, but will post as I do.
I am still having the same issues, even when trying other regions. Yesterday the Galaxy Cruise grouped worked, however some people saw the chat 10-20 minutes later and many others never did. Now it is back to "can't create session" again. The Galaxy Cruise group has over 1,000 members and not really possible to create a new group in our case. Otherwise we would have done so. What is particually unusal is groups with 3 members has this issues as does one with over 1,000 members YET other even larger groups still work fine (Live Music Ethusists). It is strange that that with this wide difference the problem can not be found. It seems like it should be a big red BEACON. I mean how many things can a group with 3 members, another with over 1,000 have in common yet a group with over 2,000 does not??
Ok, who is the Joker at Linden?? I fInally received a response to my ticket. "We have solved your issue" and "Solution: We are currently investigating" doesn't make sense! How can it be solved if it still being investigated?
We have solved your issue Solution: We are currently investigating a bug which has to do with the size of the group with failing group IM's as a result. Please look at http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3479 regards, Ticket Information: Ok, on Thursday, Dec 20, the FIREHOUSE NIGHTCLUB VIP group im started working. I even sent out a staff notice saying the group im was back. Ummmm Dec 21...not working again
Yes I got a similar response on a ticket I had sumitted. However in my case they just said "your group is too big". I reopened it and responded with "no becuase I have a group with 4 people and it has the same issue it is definitly NOT becuase it is too large".
Also yesterday (Dec 28th at 11am) the Galaxy Cruise group worked well. Then later on that day it wouldn't. I relogged and managed to get a session started however no one saw the group IM messages I sent. And today I can't get a session started at all. Is there ANY hope of this EVER being fixed??? Sorry to keep you guys waiting, I needed to confirm some things (Jonathan Linden helped me understand some of the details better) – with the forthcoming 1.19 update, the "vast majority" of these problems should be fixed. Jonathan mentioned, "This was accomplished by removing the 'look up online status of all group members' upon group chat session start." Hang in there, I hate this bug too!
Hmm that may get the session to start but how about the aspect of not everyone recieveing messages? Or will that be fixed by this as well? I have to wonder if it will truly fix the underlying problem. Don't get me wrong but it sounds like a "duct tape" patch rather than really FIXING it. And if this will make the group reliably starting, everyone reciving IM's, and I am wrong in this by all means tell me (I hope I am).
This happens to me with both Macintosh Users and JEVN Users, both large groups which are primarily help and support, the former particularly for MacBook and MacBook Pro users, who are having crash difficulties, fixed with switching off Occlusions, maybe you should make that the default on that hardware?
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1229582&tstart=0 Lag is not bad on JEVN, but appalling on Macintosh Users, replies to queries often come way before the question does. Plus, I can be on for several hours and then get one solitary random post, with none of the others connected to it. So the only problem with 1.19 is what extra shinies are you putting in which will bork up something else yet again? That's a regular track record going back to 1.14 and the then new First Look render pipeline which still has alphas broken, and the 1.15 Group IMs still borked which this ticket is about, never mind broken unwanted Voice and all the rest. Is 1.19 going to be Windlight, which drops my frame rate from 20 to 0.4? When is this fix to be relased? I still have the issue. Infact it has only got WORSE! If I try 20 times (or more) SOMETIMES I can get group chat to work. It was working off and on for a while now it is pratically useless. A ongoing issue since november (and a large imporant issue)...this is getting a little tiresome to put it midly.
I know this issue is being worked on but I would just like to let everyone know that the issue is happening to our Club group (club Infinity VIP Group) We have not been able to start a group IM for weeks. It may work one or two days but mostly does not work. All staff members are affected by this. Yet other groups don't seem to have any problems with their IMs.
This is an ongoing problem and is not just limited to large groups. I get this message in the VKC Dog Owners Open Chat group which has 304 members. I also have it in the Tui student group for weeks, and that is a large group. So group size doesn't seem to matter.
This is an ongoing problem and is not just limited to large groups. I get this message in the VKC Dog Owners Open Chat group which has 304 members. We count on this Chat Group, for info exchange. There is no problem with a group I am in that has 800 members.
Having this problem since aborted rolling restart on the 6th January and happening now with both release candidate 1.19 and latest windlight viewers.
Aslo note that this is not always happening when I try to intiate group chat session but also when receiving , especially with the Second Life Mentor Group chat. Most annoying PLEASE! Help my dog chat forum work again. We can't chat and weve only 304 members! This is were we get help for dog issues from our groups professionals!
The Galaxy cruise group has been having this problem since the 3rd week in november and has unless except perhaps on 5 occaisions been totally useless except for notices. But after 1.19 of the server was installed we have now been able to use the group chat and what a difference it has made! Our guests can contact us directly again, and get timely notices about our events. It is strange that our group is working again, and now others are having issues.
I have a group with 4 members and it had this issue, so I know it has nothing to do with the size of the group. Contary to what some might say. 4:41 PST on Sat Feb 9. VKC Dog Owners Open Chat still not working.
I suddenly started getting "error spawning chat session" or "error starting chat session" while I was getting messages in a chat window right after I logged in.
[added] I had not at any time attempted to SEND a message to the group, or to open the group chat session, but after this happens, if I close the group IM window, I can't open the group IM window at all. All the recent comments are appreciated, I hate that this is still a problem. I'm going to ask our devs for more info.... so frustrating.
Bad now here also since more then 1 week , cant IM in a group with more then 700 members L's SkyClub VIP , "Error starting new chat session with group
error making request please try again later" , not based on client (same in windlight) , region or user ( my hosts have the same problem) . We can send Notices only . @Torley Linden
Go down where the programmers hang out and take away their Jolt Cola until the fix this. It's been a running problem for over a year now. Darling ps. we do appriciate the working being done trying to resolve it. As of 1.19, I've been having this problem when a new chat session starts as well. The group IM will popup, give an error message, and close. One of the groups frequently failing is the SL Mentors group, but I've also had problems with the AW Groupies, and other smaller groups.
That's exactly what I've seen. Except that I had the group window pop up, and was able able to type in more than one response, and then I got this error message and I had to relog to get group chat back.
My Major problem is not in opening the group it is in receiving messages in the group chat. This receiving error is 80% of the chat session errors. However the 1000 plus member rule is definitely not accurate, as the Mentor Q&A channel is now having problems opening without error, with just over 300 members. Great when the mentor channel is already suffering for me with the error constantly on messages received.
I haven't been able to get that far. For me, I get maybe 3-4 messages before the chat session closes with an error, no time to even respond. The group tab shows up and blinks, and the messages appear in my chat history, but the group session fails anyway.
First, while we of course would love to fix this reliably – and we've indeed undergone a lot of changes to our backbone/infrastructure in hopes of alleviating this – that doesn't come without knowing that group IM is a complicated series of processes. Improvements can come from a number of related areas.
Specifically, I was frustrated yesterday when I was in a 2-person group that kept giving me this error instantly after trying to start it. I've seen this issue with smaller groups like DBDigital Epsilon's (as noted above). Jonathan Linden investigated, found that the multiagentchat process for a few of my groups had died, related to a memory leak (internal issue: DEV-10342) we need to find the cause of. I'll update you as I find out more. Very interesting, thanks for the update Torley. Something else interesting, I have noticed less problems with older versions of the viewer. The new RC seems to have this problem more. I shall investigate further.
4 MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop investigating and do something. It is enough already.
Damn and I thought you were getting somewhere with it when you released the last windlight version and my IM/Group chat was working okay for a few days. Now having updated to the new windlight release I find it is back with a vengeance and having group chat disfunction immediately on startup. will restart them and see how it goes, but as usual mine is when in receipt of group chat, not when initialising or sending.
Still happening frequently and very randomly.
This is now pretty much continuous with the Caledon group, I can only occasionally get group chats even if I'm not starting it myself. I get one message and then the group IM window closes with the error message.
One of my groups died when it got over 1000 members. Then it came back to life at 1200 members for a week, and now with 1400 members it is not working again this week. It dosnt seem to matter which viewer I use. Regular, WL, or RC.
I wonder if this is more about how many group members are online, rather than the size of the group? Come on Torley Linden, I have a nice shiney prim with loverly particle bling for you when this is fixed. Hell, I'll even break my no-cyber-sex-rule and sleep with the linden who gets this working! Darling. Hi, well I must say I had never seen this error message until I upgraded to the new 1.19.0 (5) viewer
only appears to happen for groups with a high spam content so perhaps it's a feature LOL Serious, it could be something to do with group size / number online but there does not seem to be Good Grief!
I know you guys are taking this seriously. But I just wanted to say that I was trying to deal with some griefers by contacting our security group--and got the infamous error message. I'm using version 1.19.0.4 I've seen this error a few times since upgrade to 1.19.0.5 viewer on Windows. In my case on incoming messages from Xcite group. Message kept nesting and pinging until acknowledged.
Observation: an IM message appears, a tab is created in the Communications window, then the error message appears, 10-20 seconds later, upon acknowledging the error the tab and received message have disappeared. Adding on to my previous post. For the last week of Feb the Group Ims worked fine until SL said that they were working on the system and that any open group ims would cease to work and would have to be reopened. Well group IMs have not worked since then. Don't know if that helps anyone.
First, we need to clarify this is not viewer-specific, it's on the server-side, meaning it likely won't matter which viewer (main, RC, WindLight, Dazzle, etc.) you're using.
I note the most recent reports and we've been continuing to work on this complex, and at times, labyrinthine problem. I've got a question: Has anyone still been seeing this error when trying to start a group IM themselves? Today, I only saw an error popup when someone else was trying to do a group IM, similar to what Scarlett Glenelg describes. Please provide group names and dates & time this happened to you, we'll followup. I had it happen when sending a group IM to the group silentsparrow in Rue d'Antibes some time yesterday afternoon. You might check with Hyasynth Tiramisu, it's her group and it was happening to a number of people in the group at the time.
Just to let you know Torley I have just tried opening both mentor and Q&A group chats and received the error both times.
Also noted that although I was on line yesterday from 10:00am with both groups open. No messages were received in the groups till approx 7:30 last night; then according to my logged chat they were active till about 23:30, before mesages appeared to not get through again. Maybe less people on line in those groups during those times ??? Also message just received from soft linden in Aware of the SL tracker group, (131 members), that has caused the error after the received message opened the group momentarily. Yes, Torley, I got this message after opening Second Life Mentor's group IM to send a request for a mentor linguist. This was just today.
Sometimes, even just opening the group IM fails to connect. Thanks for the info! I'll let our devs know.
This is happening constantly in AWG groupies. Group chat is completely unuseable today, it seems.
Large groups? HAH!!! My group had 3 count them THREE members in it when it started to happen to me. There are now a whopping 6 members in it, and it does it every bit as badly as any other group!!! I am a group owner and often I cannot initiate conversations in it or join into conversations in it. ALL of my groups regardless of size are giving me difficulties. Last night I had an incident of being unable to do anything but sit and hit "ok" to the error message that kept popping up as fast as I could click it because apparently a couple of my groups had lively conversations going that I was not able to read, all I got was non stop error opening group chat messages. Finally had to log. This used to happen occasionally. Now I cant have a single session in SL without being spammed by the error messages from people chatting in groups. Forget my initiating conversations 90% of the time anymore.
Ok i had problems opening certain groups before.. i am now having problems with all my groups .. people talk in them and before i get a chance to reply i get the error message failed to connect to group. Even when i don't want to reply the window closes itself without any interaction at all.. seems to be a delay.. i can read what someone says.. it stays open and about a minute later the group chat closes without warning.(get an error message)
Torey just read your message below.. ok will record the groups and times that this happens and post here. I am also seeing this.
I see it when try to open group chat, and when some one els does. Hardware Overview:
Machine Name: iMac GeForce FX 5200: Chipset Model: GeForce FX 5200 Ok this has been affecting our group since the beginnig of November. We were initially able to hold group chats but that has all disappeared with the latest software updates.
Trying today at 640AM SLT with Korova Milk Bar SL group and I nor the owner are even able to start a group chat..for her it immediately closes and for me it waits about 2 minutes before we get the error unable to start group chat etc. This is seriously impacting our traffic and our customers..we have seen a decline of almost 75% in the past month because we simply are unable to communicate with our customers in a timely manner any more other than with constant notices. I found this open ticket after being referred to a closed ticket as the solution to the reported problem.
Torly, I have had both the errors described, a group chat opens up on my viewer when someone else in the group types a message, then I click the tab and receive an error message. Now I am getting this error on one of my regular and stable groups with +/- 700 people. The group is Avalon's Royal Court. You could sometimes get the group to open properly after the 4th or 5th try, but now this group is un usable and I have heard from many members of the group that it is un usable to everyone. As a side note, I have had a group open fine. then I typed a message, received an error, but the message still came out. after that, the group worked fine. Priority Item! Please fix. We have this issue to and we have been told to do the following :-
Unfortunately, what you are reporting is a known issue, as discussed here: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4644 I am confused - Is this not an issue worth repairing unless it has been reported by X amount of people???... Are Group IM's not important???.....they are if you run a business here, own land, pay tiers, pay salaries, and have a lot of people who depend on the group IM for work information....So please could we make this a priority .... This should be made top priorty.. Group chat is very very important to those trying to run events.. and let VIP's know of whats going on.. spamming Notices is not good enough....
Anyway dunno why they say its windlight... i just use normal client GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. I'm having the same problem as everyone else. Group IM's always return the error message as shown in this report and I'm running the latest release of the viewer; 1.19.1 (1). Group chat is frequently broken and group IM's are ALWAYS broken. How are we supposed to conduct business? One avatar at a time? And you did maintenance on group chat according to the blog?
Around 80-90% of my groups haven't worked since Friday, including my own group. This is extremely inconvenient as it is a group a lot of people rely on. The group either won't open, or chat won't appear.
Although I can see this has been going on for some time and I have experienced it spasmodically, it has never been as bad as this. Groups have been broken the entire weekend. Even the SL Mentors group is broken!!! We have over 1800 members in our group and group chat is active on many parts of the day. In the past 4 days there has been absolutely no group IMs, not even ones that end up with error messages. Everyone we have talked to said they couldnt start an IM session, always getting an error. Our group is practically broken! Our group is College of Scripting Music Science and it is a vital part of our college and community as whole, in our eyes it is a show stopper. PLSSS can anyone help us out, we will send invite if needed to help find the problem.
Last logged group IM was on 03/13/08 3:45 AM (SLT) Edit: I am in Darwin's group and I have also been having this problem. It seems like it is off and on, seeing that I was also able to post today, but the previous few days I haven't been able to send any messages, and most of the time I don't even get an error message, my post just didn't go up. It also seems like it happens more when many people are posting, just an observation...
I still see this a LOT. Especially in the Groups DCS Support, Macintosh Users, and some Star Wars RP Groups. I see it sometimes in the NCI Group.
I realize some of the group i joined will have experience such problem too, but some won't, i wonder why..
One of it i recently experience is SL-LOST group Another data point.... I've been suffering this for a while (weeks now). This morning, I was inworld, and every singe group IM I received caused the error. Then..... the "discussions" I've been having with my ISP over dropped packets culminated in a router reset, and when I reconnected to world, my ingame packetloss meter (Help-->About) has dropped from 55% (yeah not good) to 1.2%, and suddenly I'm no longer getting this error at all. I've had a few group IMs, including big groups like Mental Mentors and they're behaving themselves perfectly.
Curiouser and curiouser.... This problem has been happening to me for so long now I don't even use groups anymore, but recently it has changed in a way that it will even give me the error when someone else comments in a group.
The concierge part group has been doing it to me 100% of the time since it was created. When people start argueing about spam in the group I can wind up with my client unusable for the entire time because of this problem. A message will come in, my client will freeze when I get the 'Error starting new chat session...' message box, and when I close the box, the chat session is closed too, A few seconds later it pops back up with the next person complaining about spam. I gave up and logged after this went on for 30 minutes the other day. The problem seems to change over time with different groups causing the problem for several weeks, then one group may clear up and another wil get the problem. One person I was talking too said it is sim specific for them. A group will not work in one sim, but will in another, but I have not tested that yet. At this point I am geting the concierge party group chat errors 100% of the time when I am in Jsindo. I just log and go do something else no when people start argueing. Group: Conceirge Party Group (just one of many) I have invited you to the TUi Learning Group, Torley.
It is one of the groups, that doesn't work (the TUi Neophytes channel (teacher channel) doesn't work either, but i don't have the rights to invite you there) This happens on my smaller group of about 25 and also in friends conferences. it doesn't happen all the time, but the groups chat function is critical to this groups performance and so very inconvienate.
And now it's June and still happening. I'm still generally using the 1.18.5.3 viewer, since I can't run Windlimp anyway, and the new UI is hideous.
Generally happens on larger groups, eg JEVN support group, Mac users group, worse when the chat and IMs and system in general is laggy. Sometimes you get the message, but your post actually appears a few seconds later. This sometimes leads to double posts that load the system even more, and sometimes of course it remains totally broken. Since comm failures happen a lot in sims, and seem to get turned off mysteriously, the fact that sims no longer restart and fix themselves as often under Havok 4 may mean this problem is actually getting worse lol. I just experienced this issue too so I'm sumarize what happened.
I own a group with 2000+ members. Someone opened an group chat session asking some stupid unrelated question even though we ask that the group is for Notices only and not to be used for IMs. I tried to post a message clarifying this but received the following dialog message: "Error messaging chat session with [GROUP NAME]. I tried twice more over the following 4 to 5 minutes but received the same error every time. Meanwhile several others in the group have contributed group messages just fine. I teleported to a neighbouring sim and my next attempt worked immediately with no delay, and the previous IM got automatically sent at that point too. I'm using official "Second Life 1.19.1 (4)" client. The first sim (where I had the issues) is a class 4 sim. The neigbouring sim I TP-ed to is a class 5 sim. Still get this with various groups.
Second Life 1.20.15 (92456) Jul 18 2008 10:58:42 (Second Life Release) You are at 229745.9, 289396.1, 30.4 in Hobo Island located at sim5927.agni.lindenlab.com (8.2.35.229:13002) CPU: Intel Core 2 Series Processor (2999 MHz) Amended "Affects Version(s) re comment on
Just want to add, this issue is STILL here, even with newest RC 1.21.1. Server 1.25 has rendered group chat almost completely unusable. I merely get a stack of "error starting session" boxes that has to be clicked repeatedly until I can continue using SL.
---------- My computer: Second Life 1.22.6 (108361) Jan 20 2009 13:28:18 (Second Life Release Candidate) You are at 264531.3, 238107.7, 3097.3 in Yoonseul located at sim2263.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.17.14:13000) Second Life 1.21.6 (99587) Oct 14 2008 17:42:25 (Second Life Release) You are at 264531.3, 238107.9, 3097.4 in Yoonseul located at sim2263.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.17.14:13000) And what's with server 1.25 being under "unreleased versions?" As shown by my cut and paste, the sim I'm in is using it. --------- Additionally, when I start a new chat, I eventually get this: [16:41] Second Life: You are the only participant in this IM session. Your message is not being retransmitted or stored. Running RC 1.22.7 and server 1.25.5.09327 (Just started for me on Feb 8th)
For three days now on and off. MANY GROUPS including: Scripters of Second Life, Sculpties, TUI ..., among them Accompanied by error when saving scripts: Our group, Camelot Empire 2 has refused to open for 3 days now. Everyone who tries to open a group IM session gets slapped with the error message error making request, please try again later
this problem is 100% affecting all ... no exceptions. There is no delay between opening the chat and getting the error message.. it is instantaneous. Is this the result of the latest sertver code update? Please help... Ok, i had changed the Meta issue MISC-389 to showstopper and as its a Meta-Issue it was changed back to normal. I was asked to edit the sub-tasks if necessary, so here i am..
This issue needs IMMEDIATE attention! Since 4 days the group 'Intan Eksotics' refuses to open chat session at all. Like posted one entry above it shuts immediately with the error message. This goes on way too long already. This is affecting business and groups are essential for SL's economy and business owners that rely on services. If you start a war the first goal is to break the enemies communication. Is this a war? I dont think so, so fix it! This issue is almost 2 years old.. FIX IT - IMMEDIATELY !! I've run 1.22.11, Cool View 1.22.11, and 1.23RC2 and for the past two days group chat has been a nightmare. I'm not initiating chat, but, other people are. I get the ding-ding of a regular new chat IM followed IMMEDIATELY by a pop up window telling me I failed to connect to the group chat. Clicking OK closes the chat only for it to ding-ding CRASH again seconds later.
The pop up window takes over any keyboard controls I may have had, interfering with chat, moving, and building. The most epic bad group on my list right now is the New Citizens Inc. group. Yes, it's a BIG group, but it was working relatively FINE a week ago. This issue is expanding, if the group chat does enable you still get the error dings when you try to send a message.
You have to use the Ctrl + (up arrow) to repeat the message, sometimes several times before just one of the attempts gets through. It is affecting both large and small groups alike, this bug must be fixed and quickly before group chats completely fail! This error keeps repeating several times for all messages, and happens for any out going message
Group chat took a sudden turn for the worse a couple of days ago. There have been several periods lasting minutes to over an hour where no member of the New Citizens Inc. group could send a message. This is clearly a showstopper for any resident whose virtual life relies heavily on realtime group communications.
This failure is now 100% reproducible with the New Citizens Inc. group. Consistent failure started shortly before the weekend. Significantly, the usual error messages have changed: when attempting to start a new session right after logging in (i.e. before someone else starts/continues the session), the error message includes "you do not have that ability" (which I have NEVER seen with group IM before). If someone else starts/continues the group IM before you do, the group tab briefly activates in the communicantions window, but an error immediately appears that "the session no longer exists" (which I also don't recall seeing before, though I can't swear I never have)
Unable to receive any messages via the NCI group at all. This group does help alot of people...without the ability to communicate its ability to help any resident that may be experiencing problems is reduced greatly.
NCI chat being unavailable disadvantages many SL residents !!!!
I wonder if there's a useful metric for how much business LL loses because this is broken.
Added a new attachment - this is a new error message, probably related to the same issue.
Group chat now "disappears" for large groups - im window closes. this causes problems when you first log in and someone in the group attempts to chat - the group IM attempts to open, and fails, with the attached message, then closes. Hi, Torley. Thanks for keeping us updated on this issue. This issue first appeared for me a few months ago in the Isle of Wyrms chat group. Whenever a message was sent, I would get the "unable to start, session no longer exists" error. Since I didn't use the group anyway, I left the group after a couple of weeks of this behavior showing up intermittently. I next encountered significant chat errors when starting a small group of my own, though this issue was "you are the only member in this chat, messages not being recorded" or something to that effect, regardless of the number of members present in the chat. A Linden helped me to reform the group to resolve the issue. I wonder if the two issues are related?
As has been mentioned, New Citizens, Inc. chat is not functioning at all. The Friends of Raglan Shire group gives errors intermittently when I try to start the chat myself or send a message to an already started session. Likewise with the Seawolf Avatars group. Are you still looking for invites to the affected groups? Oddly, and I don't know if this is relevant or simple hit and miss, the groups I'm in for three current grid-wide hunts seem to be functioning fine (Gridwide Treasure Seekers, Fun in The Sun, and er, what's the last one... oh yes, Greatest Love). Hilary, groups have the option of only allowing certain roles to start chat sessions. The "you do not have that ability" window usually pops up if the group has restricted the ability to start sessions to members with a certain role assigned. I don't know if this is a progression of the bug or if NCI has temporarily restricted the chat until this bug is resolved. Certainly worth looking into. For me, I don't need to click anything. About every 30 seconds or so (I assume it is when someone else comments to the group) I get one of the error messages displayed above. I don't have to try and connect to chat - I can't avoid it!
No matter what I am doing, I must stop and click this message. It has become almost intolerable. I can live without one group's chat while this is being addressed, but this is completely disrupting my ability to do ANYTHING in Second Life without constant interruption. I repeat, I do not have to attempt to connect to chat to get the error message. I am left with no alternative but to leave my favorite SL group which exists solely to help and educate new SL users. It's a wonderful group and I really, really do not want to leave it. PLEASE FIX THIS All i can say...
EPIC FAIL!! Please fix this as a matter of priority. We all know how little emphasis that Linden Lab put on communication between themselves and residents, but please allow us to chat amongst ourselves about what's going to hell on the Grid.
As Miss B mentions above, this is not just a service that is not functioning (not that it would be acceptable if it were).
This has gone beyond malfunctioning to an impediment to using the services that still are functioning. I am also getting dialogs (modal dialogs that demand that I stop everything I am doing in order to dismiss them even though I don't care what they are saying, and if I weren't a seasoned user, would be completely bewilderwing and possibly alarming because of what they are telling me) popping up as reported by others telling me "the session no longer exists" It's a good thing that someone with malicious intent has not simply sat there spamming large groups with messages, as this would make a pretty good mass denial of service attack, and group owners would not even be able to identify the culprits and kick them out of the group. Perhaps LL should consider this a big security hole instead of whatever status it has now because it is certainly causing problems for people who are not even trying to start group chat sessions, and it is definitely an (easily) exploitable method to deny service to other residents. Maybe they are, codewarrior... i'm not even attempting to chat at all but if anyone in several of my groups does I get the error message – over and over and often and often – it's annoying enough to make me quit the malfunctioning groups, at least for now.. I wonder how many groups have lost members due to this issue.
I am getting the new error as well. If a chat message is sent by anyone to a group, it pops up a message that the session does not exist, or something similar. This disrupts everything I am doing, and has possibly made SL crash once (hard to say what caused it). This needs to be fixed immediately. It is not just a minor annoyance when trying to speak to a group, it is a message that interrupts everything, that the user has no control over whatsoever, beyond leaving certain groups which can be vital.
Fix. This. Now. Ironically the groups that I originally started this Jira for are working at the moment. However another group I am in is having problems ( 7 seas social chat) while the Galaxy Cruise group is ok (again at the moment).
It is also very interesting that the 7seas group has far less members than the Galaxy group, yet is having more issues. This seems to indicate that it is worse for some groups than others. But I suspect that this will get worse if something is not done soon. :/ Be warned, the tinies of Raglan Shire are mobilizing in force to vote on this issue __
This problem has gotten substantially worse for me in the past two days. I'm having problem with the Friends of Raglan Shire group, membership of 966, and Black Dove Island, membership 53. So this is not just a large group problem.
I am very frustrated that this is a very old issue and is getting worse; that's a horrible combination. With several groups now reporting the same thing, this should be a hint for LL to stop fixing "bugs" and start fixing the true bugs.
Help groups are having difficult times getting information to people who need it like New Citizen's Inc. and groups related to whole communities like Friends of Raglan Shire are starting to feel isolated, something must be done and quickly before people start leaving SL! There have already been some people stating they are planing to leave if the group chat bug keeps up! Yes it is very much a problem. Soon as i get a group message the window closes does not even open it auto rejects it.
Having a background in networking in real life its like trying to ping and the firewall or IP does not exist.
If you want screen shoots or my server specifications i can list them but this is not a user problem its a software or server problem on second life platform. As Rebekah Newall said, this is not just an issue affecting group chats, it is something which disrupts anything I happen to be doing in SL. The message pops up and I can't do a thing until I click 'okay.' I'm often in the middle of a sentence in local chat, writing a notecard, building, or any number of things and am repeatedly interrupted by DING-THUNK as the message pops up and then THUNKs at me when I hit the space bar or whatever happens to be next in my sentence when the message pops up. It's so aggravating!
Secondly, I am starting to feel very isolated from my friends and groups in Second Life. Many people play for the social interaction above anything else, and this bug is splitting us up horribly and making SL feel very lonely. Please, if there is anything us users can do to help you track down this issue, let us know. This truly is a "showstopper" and must be fixed quickly. That it hasn't been already is actually quite surprising. We pay good money on the Grid and this smacks of beta testing. At Plexus Linden's suggestion I switched to the static client after the rc client completely failed to load textures on my almost new mac laptop. At that point this issue REALLY took off: EVERY single group chat begins with that damned error message
I wouldn't mind if the chat was really not functioning – but to have it open a functioning group chat by claiming the chat isn't working is just ... an unnecessary waste of server resources (gee, where have I heard that complaint before?). Pls fix – last week! I have had to quit some groups most importantly NCI because of this issue. Unable to build or chat in local with out the blue pop up window popping up. It even happens when I log in and havent fully rezzed yet.
Please fix this so I can join these groups again. NCI chat has been working just fine for months, but has recently abruptly become not only unusable but disruptive. It dings when someone comments, or it refuses my message. Sometimes it works for a few minutes. I was actually able to post 3 comments a little while ago, then it failed again, now it posted my message to a silent group, so I do not know how many people have had their comments rejected.
This problem is 2 1/2 years old. Please fix it. I could not agree more with CodeWarrior Carling. Since this started it has become a pain to hinders trying to do anything in SL. With it popping up at regular invtervals and creating the need to stop doing what one is doing is extremely frustrating. Being involved in a script, building or just sailing around everything comes to a stop so that something that shouldn't be still happening can be dealt with.
If someone were to start spaming in that group chat it would become impossible to get anything done. Please fix this issue as quickly as possible. Mr B I've updated the description with a slightly more detailed one of what happens to me.
The owners of NCI have been forced to disable group chat because of this bug. Their 8500+ members were all getting hammered by it. It is so "quiet" in SL you can hear a pin drop. =\
One of the largest largest all volunteer run, help organizations in all of SL has been forced to shut down it's open group chat where people could come to for help and support. It was done a courtesy for all of the members, due to this bug's adverse effects on group chat totally disrupting the SL experience for most of it's members. How is a group who has devoted it's 4 year existence to "Helping" people, supposed to function with group chats broken this badly???? Please!!! Give this issue the attention it needs so we can all get back to doing what we do best. gah this is getting so annoying.... please unfix what you just fixed so things will go back to normal. This seems to be happening to most of my groups.... and the wierd thing is it lets some messages through....
if you fix before the weekend raglan tinies promise to give you waffles... right guys!? _ Ok, so this issue got 200 or so votes since weekend.
Perhaps time for a Linden to comment here? Don't get me wrong, normally I'm the first to jump in to defend the Lindens, having worked on tech help facing hostile service users who always want to blame you and your systems for their every mistake, and having built and supported systems for a large number of users with varying degrees of proficiency, I understand how it is for them. But now, surely this must be raising flags. This is a whole new level of broken, and needs some kind of comment or at least acknowledgement before it hits meltdown. Wake up LL! Wonder if and how it may be related, I have the same issue with friends conference chats. Randomly, not all the time. Sometimes it seems worse when I have a slow connection, but not always, makes me wonder if it's partially a metric that involves the included users' bandwidths. For me this problem started last saturday - so something has been changed or been fiddled with around that date
The only other possible explanation is that NCI Inc reached a membership critical point. Ive been a member of NCI Inc for 2 years and never seen this issue till last saturday. Im I member of several other large groups wish do not display this bug - but none as large as NCI Inc Once you open a IM session with the group - it will hang in there for an hour or so - then fail. Clearing Group Cache seems to help a little but its impossible to measure. Its basically rendered one of SLs most important groups useless. New Users must be totally confused as to what is happening. I'm experiencing this problem with the Friends of Raglan Shire group chat (large group), but not with Isle of Wyrms (even larger group). Please help us, this is seriously effecting our community's functionality. Tinies without chat is obscene. Our FoRS is part of who & what we are, not just what we do. Honest, you've got a whole lot of very angry tinies here, and angry tinies is terrible. shivers Remember, if you fix this, we has cookies & waffles!
For the past week, I have been getting messages while in world "Unable to start a new session with (insert a group name here). The session no longer exists'." This is despite the fact I haven't started a chat session and sometimes it occurs for groups I haven't spoken in for days. This is also being reported to happen to lots of other people. Some of the groups I am in or run are quite large. But it also happens from groups that have not nearly as many in them. One group posted notices they had contacted the Lindens about this problem and the lindens told them it was the size of the groups. Yet its happening to many of us who are in smaller groups too.
PLEASE HELP TINIES COMMUNICATE!!
Well, well well.
Where's Catherine Linden and her BS about "communication is a top priority for LL" schpiel now. Oh wait, where are any Lindens to acknowledge that they're even paying attention? Nowhere to be seen or heard. Certainly not in group chat, that's for sure; because we're now 4-7 days into a whole new bunch of complaints, and no-one has the good manner to log in here and even bother saying "we're working on it." My guess is, because they're not. 'Why should we waste our time trying to fix group chat? Can't these people teleport to each other to communicate face-to-face?' Er, no. Unless you want the extra strain of everyone zipping about left, right and centre around the Grid. 'Well, we have issues in the RC that we need to fix as priority. Cupcakes don't render properly.' Epic fail, indeed. Also having issues with "Mentor Lounge" Contacted Support portal who asked to file a ticket.
I've been experiencing this since Saturday, May 30th 2009. (My rez day anniversary)
The only group that I haven't noticed this occuring in, of the groups that I belong to, is the Arbor Project. Midnight Mania groups and Lucky Tribes - keeps happening. Various store groups, keeps happening. Clearing Group Cache did not make a difference. Sometimes, it seems that if I open up a group chat session right after login, I do not have the "error starting session" – but there tends to be no group chatter occuring. Am also having the issue with error sending messages, which is very frustrating. I was about this in live chat as i've set the priority to showstopper.
To me it seems like this bug moves from one to the next.. one day its this group the next day that group.. If u start chat manually after a few times of auto-closing of the tab u might be able to view it. Another problem always was that like after 30 minutes of realising no chat that it just doesnt show it any more.. closing and reopening shows the channel is active.. the usual known delay of sent messages until they appear sometimes got up to 45 minutes since this issue got that bad with the immediate message popping up. Since 1 week i also realise that this message often self-disapears. Live Chat: 28/04/2009 29/04/2009 I am forced to drop all non business related groups with lots chat.. need to work ...
[15:01] Second Life: You have left the group ' Electronic Music Informer'. These group IM issues (or should i call them PROBLEMS?) needs to be fixed - IMMEDIATELY "Support: thanks for waiting DarkMoon, they are aware of it and are working to resolve the issue, it does seem to effect just extremely large groups"
No, no, no. NO! "Karenza McCullough added a comment - 03/Jun/09 04:17 PM Come on, LL. Please, please respond and let us know you are hearing us AT ALL. This should be responded to here in the JIRA, and it should be blogged about. THIS. IS. MAJOR. I, for one, am getting sick to death of not being able to use SL for communication. Pardon, but isn't that its primary purpose? How many more groups have to suffer, how many communities have to collapse, how many help groups fail, and how many residents have to leave before this bug is finally fixed! I know I'm going to stick around but do you think with the SL6B just around the corner people will actually be there if they are leaving SL because of group IMs failing and disrupting all other actives! The grid is collapsing around you yet you are too busy "fixing" the the exploits that content creators are using to make SL more diverse, to repair things that are crippling the grid!
I'm getting sick of the error messages and complaints from everyone else on groups that still have IMs and I know they are too, so stop fixing the "bugs" and fix the grid crippling disasters! This happens for me in Lucky Tribe and Midnight Mania groups. It is very annoying to hear the bell ring, the the message flash after the error appears and not be able to capture the SLURL to the next location.
Happens just like this says: "For certain groups (New Citizens Inc being one), every group chat message that comes in results in: This happens for every message that comes in. For group sessions that successfully start, attempting to send a message results in the "unable to send message to the chat session with XXX" error. Manually starting a chat session by clicking the IM/Call button on the contacts/groups pane avoids the first scenario (or seems to), but not the second. Sometimes you can talk on the group IM, sometimes, you can't. This problem occurs in most groups including smaller populated groups. Happens of course more frequently in larger busier chat groups. Clearing group cache doesn't alleviate it. If when you log in you open the group chat yourself it alleviates it some what but doesn't leave you a choice on receiving chat or not. For groups that rely on chat to call slurls for Midnight Mania boars or lucky chairs this is a huge issue. Further info - this problem started on or around May 30th 2009" System information sans landmark which I do not want to share: Second Life 1.22.11 (113941) Mar 6 2009 12:50:02 (Second Life Release) Second Life Server 1.26.4.120562 CPU: AMD (Unknown model) (2000 MHz) It appears more than large groups are now being affected LL...see the date that everyone said it started happening and go back to that date and undo was done...then SLOWLY move forward 1 step at a time until you discover where the bug starts occuring
Im getting sick and tired of all the "dings" and the crashing NCI has been forced to shut down group chat for its main group (8500+ people) due to this issue. As NCI normally functions as a regularly active "Live Help" for its members, this is seriously impacting our ability to provide needed assistance.
I was so hoping I wouldn't have to complain, but this has gone on for way too long, and putting in support tickets and calling hasn't helped at all. Our main function at NCI is unusable now because we can't chat and can't work without chat errors stopping us every few minutes, Solace Beachcombers is unreachable as well. This really needs to be addressed, and now.
In the past three days I have had the message "Unable to send your message to the chat session with [RECIPIENT]. Error making request, please tey again later" about 75% of the time I try and send a group chat message to one particular chat group. This makes the chat group (a group for communicaton between administrators of an estate) near useless as we need to copy each message about six times before it actually is sent.
What on earth are you doing WorkingOnIt Linden ?
An acknowledgement from any Linden would at least appease the 1,5 million on line in the last 60 days that something is actually being done. We pay You! remember "WorkingOnIt Linden" means that no one is really assigned to it. It is like the 'Doctor Allgood' or other fake names places like hospitals use to pass messages without actually announcing what the problem is. In this case it seems to mean that there are enough people voting and commenting on it that it is an active issue but no one is available for it.
The magic number for LL actually working on a Jira has been rumored to be 1000 votes.
Please vote in support of this issue, and pass the word to your friends and members of your chat groups. LL, if you're listening, this problem is major. This problem has become even worse the past few days. Even after closing the group out...still get an error message when someone posts in that group chat.
7Seas Social Chat also has this problem. It's severely impacting our business, and hurting our community. It's only started within the last three days.
The fact that this issue was opened in 2007 and is still a problem does not fill me with confidence. This Lucky Tribe and Midnight Mania instant message failure is affecting my shopping. I want to be able to find the nicest designs by the best designers, buy their items, slap MM boards, and pickup my lucky tribe kudos. But now I gotta worry about these failures. No way! This is terrible. Make it stop. Fix the group messaging. Fix it now.
This has been an issue for a few days, and as a member of 7Seas Social Chat, which is VERY active, it is very difficult to navigate when someone else starts a convo and the error pops up and extremely trying to get info out when every other line I send times out and pops up the error message. Not to mention the events many people plan and many miss. The sooner this is debugged the better.
Being interrupted repeatedly with this popup is really hampering any in-world activity.
This one needs serious attention ASAP please!!! It's causing soooo many problems with so many groups. I am a member of 24 groups. all of them are being affected in one way or another by this issue.
The problems are having a drastic effect on our productivity with content creation, with being able to communicate with group members, with notifying folks with information needed, with giving help to new residents, and with every phases of our SL experience. Economic effects are soon expected, for those of us who own and operate businesses if we can't stay in contact with our customers and clients. All of SL will see a downturn in the economy soon if this continues much longer. =\ Can't we please at least be given some idea as to when and how this is to be corrected? Whatever server code was put in place last week, that caused a minor 2 year old irritation bug to become a major inhibitor of our ability to communicate with each other MUST get attention! This has been driving me mad for days now, for a while I though it was just me, and that I had a virus or a borked viewer but then others I know started getting the same annoying fault and it just continued from there. Every SL session, without fail, I will get the annoying ping and pop-up in group chats I haven't even chatted in for a while and I can't chat within them, either.
When you're in a lot of groups, who chat regularly, this has become a serious problem and needs sorting out asap Ok the problem is becoming more and more widespread. It is now also affecting our Kokomo Beach group as well. How many groups have to be affected before someone does something about this?
PLEASE, I don't want to see Caleb do Riverdance... Seriously, this happens with a lot of groups of which I'm a member and it's incredibly annoying. I'm very loyal to my groups and don't want to leave any of them, but I can imagine how others who are less tolerant than me might. This problem is harmful to a lot of groups and will likely affect the survival of some.
Given the timing (starting around the first of June) and the way this seems to be spreading to other chat groups (at first I thought it was JUST 7Seas Social), is there a chance that this has something to do with the code which was added to the servers to handle the Adult Only Regions? Could the problem be related to some "Adult" users belonging to the impacted groups? Could it be that the software designed to keep us separate is making it impossible to communicate?
Frankly, I just would like it fixed. Communications with peers and friends is becoming impossible. I've been getting error messages, in Friends Conferences, now, so it may be a hardware issue.
This is just wrong. Having groups work properly is vital to SL. PLEASE FIX THIS. It has been going on over two years. It was promised to be fixed with a new release, but that does not seem to have worked either.....
It appears that LL does not care about this problem. NOT one anwer or update from them.... THis really bites a big something. If the chat can not be fixed, please take away at least the error messages. No need they pop up and stop everything else you were doing when someone tries to send a group IM. It slows down everything and is just very annoying that this error message pops up every few minutes. I understand it fine that chatlag sometimes does not show my message in chat with a huge server load, but if group functionality is dropped first when there is a bottle neck, then make it at least so it does not throw error messages. This "bing" sound and the error window popping up and disrupting my building sessions is my main complaint.
How are we supposed to run a business if the Group IM's don't work? Get Real, Get it Fixed. Please.
Please fix this, I can not advertise for my store or for my partner who is a musician!!!!! I am constantly interupted when someone trys to send a ext in group chat!
We of Raglan Shire are organizing a protest about this issue for the 8 June 2009 Bug Triage office hour. IM me if you want to help.
Let's keep it civil, folks.
Right now this issue has more votes than anything else in the jira. If the Linden's great "Software engineering as a democracy" experiment has any weight, that means they are aware and are working on it, even if they haven't posted. Definitely keep the votes coming, keep the examples coming so they have ones they can study and focus on when testing fixes, but insults or namecalling aren't called for. I hate this bug as much as anyone – my profits this week dropped by a third, and according to the Lindens own stats, I'm in one of the higher percentiles of profiteering. That has to mean something to them as much as it does to me, if the economy's being hammered that badly. We WILL see action. for italian people is impossible to comunicate with u...............................i have problems with my chat quantum core group-.............................
This issue has been resolved in error. Until the original reporter or a Linden can reopen it, please add your comments and vote on VWR-13858.
Thank you : ) EDIT: Thank you, DBDigital : ) Resolved in error, reopened.
this has been ESPECIALLY bad today, but it has never really been fixed.
do NOT close a JIRA issue unless you know what the hell you're doing. (looks at frog Carnell, who closed it - DONT DO THAT)
If you close this issue, you better be the one who can fix it! The entire grid is suffering from broken group chats, we don't need idiots screwing with gird wide disasters just to get their way!
I have this issue as well, all day yesterday every time I tried to chat with eve online enthusiasts group or with little blue sandbox group I am in I immediately got an insta popup with error unable to start new chat session with [insert group name]. No matter what group I try on occasion they all won't work
I tried relogging a few times and clearing cache and all but still same problems. Eventually a few group chats went through, but overall it seems very broken. I think that it is becoming evident that LL is not really looking at this issue.
Is there another avenue we can explore to address this issue more directly? Good thing I had this as a watched issue, and got a email that it had been marked "resolved".
As for what other avenue we can use, I would suggest EVERYONE sending support tickets pointing to this jira. Flooding their system. Those with concerige ability, call directly and talk with the lindens directly stating what is going on. One would think they are aware of this by now. But telling them over and over and over again should make the point stronger. Espeically since this issue has been around since 2007 (if it was a new issue I would say give them a bit of time to fix it). Granted in my case it was better for a while but still would happen on occasion. But never to this extent with so many groups affected and constantly getting the error message distrupting work flow to the extent it has. As I said before, I suspect this issue has finally reached "critial mass" and hopefully LL can no longer ignore it. From what I get on the few groups that are still working for me, several people are planing to storm the Linden office hours until this issue gets fixed, maybe any one who is able to be on during those times should show up. Once the Lindens see their offices are filling up with irritated residents, they might finally do something.
We have over 1000 votes on the issue now. The Lindens must realize that this is an important issue by now, though I am disappointed by their lack of response. I encourage everyone to keep the votes coming, but to stay civil with them even while storming their offices. It is obviously a large issue or it would have been dealt with when it first appeared years ago. As it is, it has reached the boiling point and can not be ignored any longer; just remember, honey attracts more butterflies than vinegar.
To the Lindens, let me just say that any note to the community, any public acknowledgment of the severity of the issue combined with a pledge to resolve it, would do much to calm the increasingly restless natives. I, for one, am nearly as upset about the silence of the Lindens as I am about the enforced silencing of our groups. If you are reading this but your hands are tied, please at least tell your PR people to draft a response to the community. Awareness/protest signs available: Well spoken Azelle but I am still stunned that what was done around May 30th has not been reversed and rethought
Here we go again another day first thing that pops up when i log in 'unable to start chat session'. Still no sign of this issue being fixed? If this error isn't a priority maybe you'd like to tell us all what is? From what i hear this is now affecting many groups across the board from large to small. Your getting a lot of angry and frustrated residents being unable to communicate with their groups. A response would be appreciated by us all to at least let us know the problem is being worked on.
Soft Linden hosts the "Bug Triage" office hour Mondays at noon SLT at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Hippotropolis/239/28/24/?&title=Hippotropolis
Make sure you get there if you possibly can and advise that this bug is needing a fix. As Azelle has said, please be respectful. If that doesn't result in some kind of response from LL within a day or so (not necessarily a bugfix but at least a comment here), then go to other Linden office hours: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_hours Especially... (in the order they appear on that wiki page, sorted by day-of-week) Amber: general topics Mondays 9am To me it has never been as bad as described here. I get the message once twice a week and im online 24/7..
i realise groups are more than just dead, but at least i dont get this popup that often. i dropped many groups because of this issue, but my business groups are dead. did i say they are DEAD?? I run win2000... Facts in evidence here:
Second Life is a "place" to many of us. A place where we go each day to shop. To build. To hang out with friends. To run small businesses. To meet other people and make friends. To feel a connection with the world outside of our own little real lives. Communicating is done mostly with various text chat methods. Without the chats it would be difficult if not all but impossible to communicate with each other. Second Life for Linden lab is a business using a software product they created themselves.. A very complicated business. Most of it works extremely well. Some of it does not work as well as other parts. And sometimes some parts of it get broken. Software is created by humans. The SL client software is a huge and complex program. Layers and layers and layers of code that has been changed /updated/expanded many times since it's original creation. Literally thousands and thousands of lines of code. Same is true for the software used on the server side. A "bug" in software is either a mistake when the coding is done, or it's a piece of ode that has an adverse effect on another piece of code, somewhere in those thousands of lines of code. With this level of complexity, bugs will happen. It is almost 100% certain that they will occur. It's just a fact of life with software. Some are more serious than others in terms of the effect they have on the users of the software. Some may actually prove beneficial and be left in the software. A few cause major disruptions to users of the software. The 'bug" here is one of the latter. It is a bug that We , the "users' of the software and the service, need to do what we can to help them fix it. We can give them information on how it is affecting us. We can give them examples of the many variants of the error messages. Those of us with the expertise to do so, could offer actual coding changes and or suggestions. Those of us without that expertise, can continue to report on it's effects, and help test any changes made. We can do this in a polite, civil and constructive manner. Linden lab staff can (and most definitely should in my opinion) keep us apprised of what is going on with the situation. We must all work together to find and implement a solution to what seems to me to be one of the real show stoppers with SL being able to go forward with whatever business plans are in progress for SL's future. Gramma now climbs down off her 'soapbox' and goes back to work . =) this issue seems to happen the most when there are other symptoms of lag happening, and packet loss. I don't know whether group chat is centralized or peer-to-peer in it's implementation, but could it be that someone with a lossy internet connection is somehow able to bring down the group chat?
Group chat failures are a complex problem. There are many possible
ways chat can fail. Here's how you can help fix the problem. As a first step, please collect a list of all error messages you see
Once we're sure we have a list, we can create a survey to collect more With all due respect, this issue has been known for a while. There are over 25 "jira's complaints" on this item.
AND the errors are either: "Unable to send your message...[insert group name]... Error making request..." or "Can't create session.. [insert group name]..." Maybe the survey should be done now, since it seems to affect so many people. ANd thank you for answering us. Added a screenie of the error as seen on June 08, 09, three times in a row at 18:53 and 18:54.
Second Life 1.22.11 (113941) Mar 6 2009 12:50:02 (Second Life Release) You are at 278006.3, 332107.0, 22.7 in Raglan Shire located at sim4894.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.27.105:13000) CPU: Intel Core 2 Series Processor (2200 MHz) libcurl Version: libcurl/7.16.4 OpenSSL/0.9.7c zlib/1.2.3 Here's the terminal(console) messages i get when trying to send a group IM message:
2009-06-09T03:39:36Z WARNING: LLAlertDialog: Alert: Unable to send your message to the chat session with [RECIPIENT]. At login screen Help>About Second Life turns up this: Second Life 1.23.3 (122255) May 30 2009 13:26:56 (Second Life Release Candidate) Built with GCC version 40102 CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 6000+ libcurl Version: libcurl/7.16.4 OpenSSL/0.9.7c zlib/1.2.3.3 c-ares/1.4.0 Usually after two attempts to send the message, it seems to go through but some people get it, some don't. I'll post more info here and on the wiki page next time I log into SL. The last week i was testing some group thing on OS and get some of that error too so, I dont know if LL servers (or maybe some change on the viewer? some one test this with other viewers?)use XmlRpc to start the chat group in OS , maybe there is some test with the new http functinos and the future deprecated of XmlRpc?
Its just thought.... Getting the excat same error message as Antonius Misfit
2009-06-09T13:24:41Z WARNING: LLAlertDialog: Alert: Unable to send your message to the chat session with [RECIPIENT]. I'm usually able to send one or two messages if I start a group IM before the error happens, after that I have to retry 4-5 times to get a message through. Stats: Second Life 1.23.3 (122255) May 30 2009 13:13:41 (Second Life Release) Built with MSVC version 1400 Du er ved 250442.8, 271438.3, 21.9 in Haven Shire located at sim973.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.13.123:12035) CPU: Intel Core Series Processor (2000 MHz) libcurl Version: libcurl/7.18.1 OpenSSL/0.9.8j zlib/1.2.3 START MESSAGE LOG SUMMARY Outgoing: SendPacket failures: 0 Decoding: ok im finding this a most interesting issue and the responses are very interesting as well.
For example someone above cites the fact that this only started happening for them in may 09. Ive only been playing sl for just about a year and since last winter sl has become really unreliable in the teleporting department but that seems to have been pretty much solved. This particular issue has been going on for a lot longer than may this year i recall it happening pretty much ever since ive been playing. I have to laugh with total disbelief that torley linden was not aware of this issue. either he never plays or he just isnt a member of any groups and both of these choices i find beggar belief. As for granma fiddlesticks lecture on programming not only do we not need to be patronised because many of us do have more than a smatttering of an idea of what programming is but we also know what the product we are paying for should do. And yes i do say we pay for it. we pay in our tiers and through the products we buy here in sl. Outside of virtual worlds we have messenger programs that seem to work very well both in voice and with text and when you realise sl sells itself to the buisiness community and to corporations like IBM and microsoft it prides itself on the virtual conferencing feature which is all well and good. However some of our groups are so big that us all being in the same virtual space at the same time is not only not feasible but out of the question. So many of us rely on the group chat as do many buisnesses. My specific frustrations with this issue for example is beinng refused by group chat after i have written a line getting that all to familiar failure sound and writing my line again and posting only to find some lag time later that it has been written when its well out of context and time. As i read further posts i realise some people are frustrated at the lindens not responding. Dont get me wrong i love second life as we all do and iim grateful to the lindens enriching my life with this game. However in the age of communication some sub automated ticket system as opposed to online voice operators and rumours of another major increase in the sl tier and pricing system, at a time when all our countries are struggling badly with a world economic collapse coupled with a program that does not deliver what it purports to do, leaves a lot to be desired. nuff said... 11:43 AM 6/9/2009
Error Starting a new chat session with 7Seas Social Chat. The session no longer exists. What usually happens is as soon I log into SL and these errors start. I may receive 3 in a row as people type into the group chat. Sometimes more. If I start a session myself then close the group chat tab 9 out of 10 times this will stop the issue. Of course this "fix" to stop the error depends on if I can start a group IM session sucessfully on the group in question. But I usually can when I get the error above from someone sending a group IM after logging into SL. This happens with multiple viewers. Both old and new. This indicates a server side failure. Also since the failures started long after veiwer updates were deployed, tends to indicate that yes this is a server side issue. I also have mutiple video cards (most of them ATI), and system configurations (windows 2000 and XP with on average 2 gig of memory). Again it is a universal issue, being that it is the same with all of them. Chat errors seem to be hitting smaller and smaller groups as time goes on.
NCI Chat failure a few minutes before Caledon chat failure.
Another version of the error attached. this comes unbidden - and is the feature that seems to be new.
"Unable to start a new chat session with New Citizens inc.. The session no longer exists" Handliy appearing every few minutes now NCI chat is re-enabled. :S OK GENTS..In case you forgot 3rd year computer science...u cant keep writing code over code over code AS ITS PRONE TO FAILURE..chat failure is just the start
Error messages are a constant issue in a large group that i own that is completely dependent on group chat. Torley.. it is not fixed. I have nothing else to add except to repeat frustration stated by many others.
3rd year computer science?
yet gain there is an assumption that the main auidience is american. I myself am from the uk and we dont have the benefit of the same syllabus. however point well made as to writing code over code. so heres a suggestion or two. how about the lindens supend all tier payments until they resolve this issue. that will take the pressure off us all having to prostitute ourselves to earn the fees until the program can deliver what it says on the tin. i was thinking about this after i made my first post. here you have a program that sells virtual real estate that obviously exists only in our collected imagination, but we pay tiers on it to exist on this real estate for the few hours we can afford each day. But we are driven by a need to meet our bills with the promise that an economy can work in our favour as far as buisness is concerned and traffic. But this cannot be delivered as the communication system is badly flawed. Failing that how about we shut second life down until the problem is solved and the code is wrewritten from the ground up. That way we stand a chance of being able to meet tier requirements through earnings. Either we we get to see what the priority is here whether its customer satisfaction or we find a permanent Solution with a brand new module of rewritten functioning code. With any other game on my hard drive i pay for the finished product. if there are patches as happens often i am not charged again for the patches as i have invested in the franchise originally. Admittedly with online games such as eve i would be charged a monthly fee as a subcsription but im in sl with 500 prims on a piece of land thats costing me a tenner uk money a fortnight when someone like eve is charging me that probably for a month. furthermore eves prices do not fluctuate despite server demand and they do not live under threat of further price rises or major decisions being taken without the consultation of the customer base. To further add to my frustration this evening i was getting error messages from group chat that had not been started by me or anyone else. i was busy djing and kept getting group chat can not be started error messages when i was busy spinning tunes and minding my own buisiness. Now i a appreciate that software has become so vast nowadays that not every eventuality can be predicted never mind tested but me sitting in sl taking notes of every occurence, stating what rig im running and what stars are in conjunction with pluto at the time is taking my mind off what i should be doing which is enjoying playing and if sl is a buisiness to the lindens is after all their job- they are all being said taking our money while the product is faulty. It's so funny and so borked — I get messages that group IM has failed even before I enter a message. It's like "Don't even think about it." I get failure messages for group IM when I don't even have the IM channel for that group open. I assume what this means is that someone else tried to place a message in the group IM channel and it failed?
This has only been happening to me since May 2009. We are running a hunt in SL with over 1000 hunters, 250 designers and 15 volunteers...
We hand out about 400 hints a day over group chat and this bug is killing us. Its making people give up on the hunt which is bad for the SL sense of community as well as its economy. This needs to be sorted as an extreme priority. Ethan Okelly Groups Issue Worse
Today, groups are showing 0/0 membership and can't do anything with it. Nothing, not even group notices send. Groups today show no membership. Can invite, im, or make notices
Adding my vote to this, the original issue:
A group IM pings in, I see the first line, and then get a modal dialog box stating But considering that group IMs have been messed up badly for two years (VWR-513), and that according to VWR-1323, being able to actually receive messages from the groups you're member of is a "nice to have" feature, I am not too hopeful. The group chat issue is majorly affecting my 'Fabulously Free in SL' group. Sometimes chat opens for some members and sometimes it doesn't. Many times the windows close after members try to chat. As an owner of the group chat will not open for me most of the time and the moderators have the same problem. The group has over 4000 members and the chat problem has become a major issue.
I propose LL re-think using XMPP (AKA Jabber) for group chats. Even though they dismissed it as too immature, it's becoming crystal-clear that the current mess of group chats is not working.
For those of you wondering what XMPP is, it's the opensource protocol behind Google Talk, Jabber, and many other clients (See http://xmpp.org/software/clients.shtml There's a lot more at XMPP.org. I seriously think it would fix many, many issues and would be worth the blood and sweat put into it by LL and the Open Source community. I would like to see some sort of test implementation on some testing grid, and would be willing to help get it integrated with both the viewer and OpenSim. Why is there no new Linden Comments on this ?
this needs to be fixed and they had since NOV,07 to address this and this is still a issue hummm . I agree with Fred Rookstown on considering using XMPP. Group chats continue to fail, or worse pass to some but not all group members. Something must be done to mitigate or work around this. Until the Lindens fix the group chat failures one way or another, I would propose group owners/officers pick an external group chat software(using XMPP or any other cross-platform group messaging protocol) and specify it in group charters, with a daily/weekly check to see if in-world group chat recovers.
P.S. - This thought just occurred to me: If group chats are failing, what about conference IMs? LL has had 7 months to fix this enormously disruptive issue. It's getting worse and from the indications I've seen, little is being done to fix the issue. LL is throwing away proven technologies in favor of their own faulty systems. Although it's true that many XMPP technologies may be immature, LL's group chat subsystem is simply not working and I say it's time to stop twiddling thumbs and get it fixed. I don't want to pay $9.95 a month for something I can barely use due to sim crossings causing servers to lock up, LSL memory leaks, broken group chats, ghosted scripts and prims, asset server failures, rediculous crashes, and other issues, some of which have been around for years.
I challenge LL to pledge to stop making additions to the software until stability has reached a point at which AGNI can truly be called a production-status grid. To call it that now is shameful. I ask that LL take this summer to work on the reliability of their products instead of adding on things. If you truly want to market SL as a teleconferencing platform, you must convince prospective companies that it's reliable, so that the sim won't lock up when Tim from accounting's internet cuts out and logs him out, so that the company sim doesn't lag because of a 5-line door script, so that the visitor tracker in their store downstairs doesn't crash because of a memory leaks, so that people can actually see the conference table without waiting 5 minutes for it to rez. Groups are still acting up and have been ever since the new release thing came out. Is LL ever going to fix this issue? I've left alot of the groups because I get tired of the window popping up everytime someone says something, then it comes up with the repetative error message, then someone responds, n poof there's the message yet again!
Come on and fix it, it's been how long now????? Also the issue with voice crashing ALL the time. Fix the bugs first before coming out with a new release and make sure it's working 100% before attempting another "new" release for us to have to fight with! I can verify this is still happening on 1.23.4 RC. I'm getting it when a group IM session starts, the second message seems to come in fine but never see the first message nor can I reply to the session.
I modified the issue status from 'Show Stopper' to 'Major', where it belongs.
This is definitely a big issue, especially when running a support group for a product. Yesterday, I was eating lunch and watching an online video, I had SL running in the background. I heard the IM 'Ding-ding' sound, so I switched over to SL, and annoyingly, I couldn't read the group IM! No surprise, I had the Group IM error window. So I tried to reopen the group chat, but I couldn't, I kept getting errors. Even my group bot failed to connect to the group chat! I relogged, but by then, I think the customers were done chatting. The Lindens definitely need to shift into high-gear, put down their paint brushes and get the bug spray! We don't need fancy new features, we have an enormous bug infestation and its been here a looong time. The bugs have multiplied, and are everywhere. Group IM, Dresses, asset uploading, LSL Script memory, Mono performance, render performance, avatar meshes, permissions, object physics, viewer reliability and so on. Perhaps it's time for a complete redo of the SL structure? A Second Life 2 perhaps? A lot of these bugs probably can only be fixed by something like that. - Usually to create a more reliable and much better network/application, you need to start from the beginning, and use what you learned from the first version. @Ariua
It is all a matter of interpretation. But it is definitely NOT "major" but at LEAST "critical" any way you look at it. For it is a CRASH of the IM window causing it to close. And it is greatly reduced performance in ones workflow in SL as a result. Also if the label "showstopper" was a problem don't you think that Alexa Linden would have downgraded it with the last post? Also the label of showstopper was applied only after this bug has been around for so long, grown worse and finally reached "critical mass". Also by the definition you just posted "Showstopper ONLY the most severe, confirmed issues which demand immediate attention from Linden Lab. " Well this is very very severe, we are talking about many people leaving SL because of it, income greatly reduced for established businesses which in turn is a great concern for LL (or it should be) AND it should demand immediate attention from LL who has not done much in the way of improving group chat (or conferences) since the bug was first reported. I will upgrade this to critical and I suspect (if everyone agrees with me regarding this) it will be further upgraded back to showstopper in a short time. I really don't think what level we put on it, that people will Listen.
But, if it is as Big as you say above, then why change it from Showstopper to Major? After all this time, I would think these are "... severe, confirmed issues..." especially when it impacts on people's income (RL &SL) which is one of the touted uses, by LL, to have accounts at SL... We are the top listed "BUG" in the Jira.
Hmmmmm... Will anyone listen? Please don't divert your energy onto bickering about what category this fits into. Until there is real Linden support and communication here it doesn't matter a toss. Let a Linden who has actually undertaken to fix the bug decide what category it belongs in.
Throwing in my two cents on this. I have about 20 groups involved with different factions and management groups within my 3 sims. All of them are suffering from this and its causing a negative impact in terms of traffic and consequently financial impact to the sims. We started seriously having problems with this (much worse than usual) in the last 3 weeks or so. With all of our groups.
There's finally an acknowledgment of group chat problems by the Lindens: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/technology/blog/2009/06/15/improving-the-quality-of-group-chat
The good news: They're making some architectural and instrumentation changes to help address the group chat problems. The bad news: The changes won't go live on the grid for a few weeks. One line in that blog post that strikes me as very suggestive: " if the multiagentchat module tries to hand off a message to a helper process that is delivering to a large group, it gets stuck until the helper process finishes dispatching to that group and is ready to accept another message."
Even as an informed layperson it strikes me that the fact of chat being consistently and reliably broken for large groups could be readily explained by those large groups "collecting" helper processes that have gotten stuck until all access to the group has effectively been cut off, especially if (as seems to be the case) the helper has no way to let the main module know it's busy. Could this be another example of the urge to trade off speed to reliability going too far? Oh and I changed this back to Showstopper. The issue is unquestionably "most severe" (many large groups have been 100% inoperative for more than a week) "confirmed" (any resident unaware of it has no social life whatsoever) and most definitely demands immediate attention. And it's more than merely critical, because for large groups it doesn't just "greatly reduce performance," it totally breaks it. @Antonius:
Conference IMs are also failing, in the same way as group chat. now it says [RECIPIENT] in the error, instead of naming the group – Second Life 1.23.4 (123908) Jun 11 2009 15:16:56 (Second Life Release)
Release Notes Built with MSVC version 1400 You are at 286052.1, 270430.8, 3095.6 in Servo located at sim5856.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.51.158:12035) CPU: Intel Core 2 Series Processor (1662 MHz) I get a Group IM and instantly a "ding" sound with the message that the IM doesn't exist.
I try to post a Group IM and it won't post. This is happening in 4 of my groups, and terrifically annoying! As a side note - the bickering in these JIRAs blows my mind, way too many people feel they are "JIRAcops" who have some insane mandate to re-assign Priority levels willy-nilly and kvetch about everything from which category it "belongs" in to... well... you name it, someone whines about it eh? Less "I'm the ultimate arbiter of your fate" and more "Gee, is there something helpful I can do?" would really make things less sucky I, too, have been affected by this for about three weeks. Fortunately, only one of my groups is "disabled" by this bug. Unfortunately, it's the most important, business-wise, one. Not to mention that window popping up when I'm doing things and locking out all other inputs until I click "okay" is annoying... especially when in mouselook, which must be left to click the "ok" button.
Five words:
Second Life Does Not Scale. Five more words:
Aardvark Unhelpful Waffle Defeatist Megaplex please see the blog posting from Sardonyx Linden
(yay for Jonathan Linden!) Two words here: :-D This issue is definitely affecting any ability to get tech support on any of the large and more popular lines of SL tech, like Novatech for instance - it will display an error message and immediately self-close, with each new post.
While I am somewhat encouraged that someone at Linden Labs is finally becoming aware of the failure of group chat, "Fix Pending" may be a bit premature. Current status for this Jira is 'Reopened'. WorkingOnIt Linden, while showing as assigned to this Jira, is apparently a holding bin for Jiras that are not high enough on the priority list to be assigned to a real person. WorkingOnIt is currently assigned to 353 Jiras.
A careful reading of Sardonyx's statement on the blog reveals that " it will be a few weeks before these changes are live on the grid." In the meantime, LL is beginning to gather metrics regarding group chat. Lindens have commented 13 times since this Jira was opened 22/Nov/07. Alexa Linden's request last week that residents report LL's own error messages is the first comment by a Linden since Torley said "Thanks for the info! I'll let our devs know." over a year ago. So I'm not holding my breath waiting for a fix, even though there are currently 1401 votes in. Personally, the chat error problem has significantly decreased for me since NCI disabled group chat, and since I've stopped posting in other groups. The additional instrument points announced by Sardonyx in the blog will soon have nothing to measure as more groups shut down or lose members, and the remaining members stop talking to each other. Such is NOT progress. End of discouraging remarks. I'll be quiet now, like a good little Resident. One of my groups the free script library is now getting this problem there are 2159 people in it.
I cannot believe that this was opened on 27/Nov/07 and is still not fully fixed yet. Also in my support group there are these same problems. It is not a very big group (about 50 people) so it's very strange.
Come on Lindens! I appreciate your work: good luck! It's astounding to me that we actually have to VOTE on a broken feature which is the backbone of communication in-world and why it's necessary to have a specific amount of votes as to why it should be fixed. Group chat is broken on many different levels from a small group of THREE to a large group of over 800. I think it's safe to say this issue affects EVERYONE in Second Life and makes pretty much the entire population of your virtual world unhappy.
From a social aspect, which Second Life was founded on, it's next to impossible to rely on the feature when you are hosting social, educational or any other mass-event in world. From a business aspect, and I won't bother to point out how it affects our personal business, but your big corporations who have come to Second Life for their business reasons are suffering from the same issue and can you really afford to lose their financial support? Save some grace and say 'my bad, we broke it and now we're fixing it' and earn the respect and make the entire population of Second Life happier by fixing the issue and move on to the next broken backbone. Assuming this was the first JIRA report of this issue (and noting that the push to use public JIRA instead of in-viewer bug-reporting started some time in mid 2007) ... Linden Labs has known for over a year and a half about problems with group IM / notice delivery not scaling well as the grid usage grew. The shocking point in the blog entry is that only recently have they added any metering to the system to detect problems. That step should have been taken more than a year ago.
Communication with groups is vital to commerce in SL, social networks in SL and in its present state would be a deal-breaker for any potential corporate users of SL (rumored to be a target of LL for growth). At this moment, the group chat function is too broken to be used for any purpose. It is a miscommunication tool! This issue affects more and more groups. As a result, SL experience is becoming negative for everyone. When will the dev team seriously deal with that? Or is the showstopper priority meaningless?
I recently commented that the Galaxy Cruise group, for which was the main reason I created the Jira for has been better but had issues at times. Well it is back and failing quite often. It seems that this time the whole groups system is degrading faster than ever before.
Regarding commerce, I have to agree. When I originally created this Jaira issue, group notices and chat were working well previously. But then stoped after a update was done (only a few days previous to the creation of this entry on the Jaira). Group notices and chat were starting to not reach everyone in the group, even when it did work. While the error rate did improve for a while, it was never totally removed. And the issue with group notices not reaching everyone was never properly addressed at all (another issue I posted). After these events started to occur, it impacted us greatly. We have struggled with this ever since with no real fix issued. It has forced us to use other means of communication (subscriber list, website, twitter, etc) to try and keep in touch with customers, visitors and staff. It should not be this difficult to keep in contact with said people, especially since SL's main purpose is FOR communications. LL rushes out a new viewer before its ready, and still doesn't fix group chats? Somebody needs to get their priorities straight, again the SL6B is just around the corner and most likely the Lindens will only be giving to opening speech to them selves since residents won't be there either because the left the grid or can't send messages to each other. Even the bug triage meeting I went to didn't say anything about this grid wide disaster, they only listed bugs the affected 10% of residents or where due to someone's bad scripting, where group chats affect 100% of residents and everything is falling apart. Cure your case of "Cranium in the anus" and fix what matters most to SL residents!
I've been getting this for several groups, but for one group in particular. Every time an IM session starts for the group I get the message. This is getting very annoying!
I really hope someone gets fired over how slow this is being resolved. I really do. It affects my business, the business of people who advertise my business, the business of people whose land I rent, and, most notably, it is hurting YOUR business. And yet, no one seems willing to get this fixed.
The only way that seems to get ANY LINDEN'S attention over this is to hold up a gigantic sign in the background during their office hours, since no one reads this JIRA, the blog comments, or even support requests. So that's what I'm going to do, even though I hate doing it because it annoys people to death. Although I'd hate to see this explode into an openspace-style scandal, it seems that those kinds of protests are the only way to pound any sort of sense into LL. I'VE GOT 5 PEOPLE IN A GROUP AND 2 OF THEM CAN'T SEE THE CHAT. CMON NOW !!!!!
Please please fix this! Group chat was bad enough before, I've had problems off and on for quite a while now with messages randomly not going though or going though up to several minutes or so late. In the last couple weeks, however it has become mostly unusable. As others have said, I get the error message with some groups every time a new message goes up. Really irritating, and it does not make for a good SL experience.
I have problems with all of my groups now.
I have to admit to being surprised when i saw how old this issue was, how long you've been 'working on it'. I thought a successful company like LL would be more efficient than this. It's getting silly. A friend of mine summoned it up perfectly: "I think LL is just too busy with the adult contenent BS. 'Fixing' something that wasn't broken and ignoring something that really needs to be fixed." If you open the group chat session yourself, you don't get the ding-error as frequently. Chat is severely lagged during peak use times, as it has been for some time now. In the 7Seas Social group I have noticed that some folks have taken upon themselves to repost for tourneys and other messages, in case their message goes through when the original post may not.
This does reduce the annoyance factor of the ding-error messages. Unfortunately, this is not a good workaround for conference chats. Keep working, Linden team! This is still happening and happening more frequently, and not just at peak times but at times when SL is nearly empty relatively speaking. Due to the nature of this issue I believe it is at the LL end of how messages are processed and I believe those who work on all exisiting difficulties need to come to SL and experience directly it may help them resolve faster by experiencing themselves.
Debug log entry while getting errors while trying to talk on AW Groupies:
2009-06-19T23:21:44Z WARNING: createXml: Alert: [ChatterBoxSessionEventError] Repeat about 5 times. It appears that the Lindens are in fact working pretty hard on this.
We are still experiencing the bug that this JIRA is really about... I would attach screen shot, but the system will not let me.
This is two weeks later and still happening all the time. It is wrecking our events. We cannot post to our group. People are leaving because of the aggravation. Unable to start a new chat session... Error message freezes screen, unable to work, unable to use group chat.
Unable to start a new chat session... Error message freezes screen, unable to work, unable to use group chat.
I'm not even trying to send notices or IM, I'm just get the error when somebody is sending them. I've been in SL for years now, but I just started having this problem the past few weeks.
Problem is getting worse! Now affects smaller and smaller groups.
This problem is interfering sharply with almost everything I do in SL: giving classes in SL building and other skills, a literature discussion group, a science-related social issues discussion group, an English-as-a- foreign-language tutoring project, art and cultural events promotion, and Second Life Mentors (a group created and run by LL to help newcomers and increase the percentage of new users who stay in SL!). The problem affects nearly everyone in SL, degrading the general cultural, social, and commercial life of SL. Surely LL understands that this is an immense liability if they want to attract RL business and academic customers. This problem has gotten much, much worse lately. Almost all groups chat always fails now. I can't send or receive, even to tiny groups.
I can't even start small "friends" conference chats. Any new chat that comes in fails with "Unable to start a new chat session with (GROUP NAME] If I'm able to open the IM window from the groups list, I can't send a message. "Unable to start a new chat session with [GROUP NAME] This is a very serious bug, group chat is just about completely useless. I'm stunned that a terrible problem of this magnitude cannot be fixed. I'm ashamed to have wasted my money on this. I really am. I used to pay you $9.95 a month in hopes that I could play this thing without getting banned or slapped around, and maybe even to get better support. Instead, I got horrible service (This JIRA passed 1500 votes without a single bloody update in regards to the status to this issue), snobbish administrators who don't seem to give a damn about the customer, just their bottom line, and a huge loss of money due to enormous rate hikes and slumping sales. I'm finally going to cancel my account today, after saying I would for a long time.
I have also the problems with group chats!!
For examble: Mental Mentors, Second Life Mentor, Second Life Mentor Q&A. The same for me, very annoying.
Missing lots of questions in Mental Mentors, Second Life Mentor and Second Life Mentor Q&A because of this error. Still occurring in a number of groups
and been open since Nov 07. Since LL is trying to market SL as a world class communications platform - getting the communications working should be top of the list. Get this sorted - please. in addition to all of the above...every time that little informative pop up happens about the non existent group chat, everything freezes
until you stop what you are doing and click out of it. Not a big deal until you are doing it constantly to get one personal IM out. Back when the tp crashes were so common and if they didn't crash you arrived with all your prim a dangle. I wasn't bothered. I didn't have a premium acct...no tier. I do now. Makes a big difference and I am making those decisions now. Big annoying bugs equates a free sl to me. I don't pay for big ongoing bugs. Only one comment:
Created: 27/Nov/07 ------------------------------------------------------- You are at 276012.9, 271914.8, 23.7 in Fairy Meadows located at sim4564.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.54.214:12035) Many problems with Second Life Mentor and Second Life Mentor Q&A groups.
The issue is still there! Cant open some group chats since days! How shall I keep my folks toghter! *sighs
Isle of Legacies- Residents and Isle of Legacies-OOC have this issue. Cannot open yourself without error message and will not open when someone else posts in there without error message. Issue has gotten steadily worse over the past couple weeks. Now its completely useless.
Thank you all for your reports concerning this problem. We are aware that it seems to have gotten substantially worse over the past few weeks. I do not yet have any news for you on why this is, as we are still investigating. Once we have a clearer idea of what is going on, I will update you.
I apologize to you all for the frustration that I know this is causing you. The group Gorean Midnight Mania has been experiencing this issue pretty much since the day that 1.23.4 viewer went from RC to official. I have only had one or two chat sessions open automatically during that entire time. It has required manual opening of chat sessions. It happened earlier today again
At one point, my Partner and I had manually opened the Group Chat, and she would get one message and I would get another. Neither of us would get the same one, for at least an hour, until we both closed and reopened the chat session manually a second time. Then it seemed to fix that particular hiccup. Same problem effecting Little Blue sandbox group (700 members) unable to currently keep the community together and advise of events etc. Certainly having a major impact on the group.
Quote: Sardonyx Linden added a comment - 23/Jun/09 11:00 AM
Thank you all for your reports concerning this problem. We are aware that it seems to have gotten substantially worse over the past few weeks. I do not yet have any news for you on why this is, as we are still investigating. Once we have a clearer idea of what is going on, I will update you. I apologize to you all for the frustration that I know this is causing you.>>>>> I am thrilled to see a Linden actually assigned to this issue and a message indicating this is finally being addressed. Sardonyx thank you for telling us your here. This at least makes it less frustrating to know someone is paying attention. As posted over 100 times on this jira, this problem started getting worse on May 29th, is effecting both small and larger groups and is crippling most of what we do. This is a serious problem. Today's status says this is resolved. Not even close!
"Unable to start a new chat session with Make Him Over. The session no longer exists." Good to see you Sardonyx. We are all very much looking forward to having this issue dealt with once and for all. And I am sure if you need any further data, or testing we will all galdly supply it.
Ive found that if i refresh before sending this problem does not exist on my system - i dont know if its any help but it seems to me that if group information changes AT ALL then the group database sits waiting to error
now if we all refresh every 2 seconds on all 25 groups it will all work perfectly! Sorted! lol Catty, more detail! Refresh what and how?
I can repro this bug again today .
===== Built with MSVC version 1400 Votre position : 262232.3, 266198.6, 25.1 in SL6B Velocity located at sim4443.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.54.93:13001) CPU: AMD (Unknown model) (2693 MHz) libcurl Version: libcurl/7.18.1 OpenSSL/0.9.8j zlib/1.2.3 ===== definitely not fixed, i had group chat popping up last night saying this session no longer exists the moment it popped up and before i could hit the tab it disappeared. don't make the group chat disappear when it errors fix the friggin error!
Beeflin, Catty is referring to the Group Information window. At the lower left corner of the Info window is a Refresh button. You can click this button to force changes made to the group to show. Normally those changes should load automatically when you open the window. It appear's to be Catty's experience that any change to a group's Info data is contributing to this problem and that refreshing the Group Info view may bring some relief (until another change is made).
This has been an ongoing nightmare for 3 1/2 weeks now, and has steadily gotten worse. It happens with groups of all sizes, not just large ones.
It isn't only an issue of the error messages and our own messages not going through, my partner and I have found that we can't always see messages that do go through for others. It's become more obvious/worse in past days, if there's a conversation going between 3-4 people one of us may be able to read all of them but for the other we're lucky to see messages from 2 of the people talking. For example if a b c & d people are talking, one of us will see the full convo of all involved(if we're lucky) and for the other we'll see the message of only persons b and d talking(comparable to how a conversation would look in local chat if persons a and c were standing out of range 22m away while persons b & d were both chattering with them 19m away from you). This doesn't happen all the time, but it has steadily been getting worse and has reached the point where group chat is rendered even more non-usable than it already was. Another day..more chat errors. Virtually every group i'm in is getting errors hard to hold a conversation in a big group when you miss half the chat. I sit here with my partner, each telling the other whats being missed. Its about time this was taken seriously as i and many others are reaching our limits with it. So good paying for a service that relies on typing so much and doesn't work. 4 weeks and still no sign of this issue being resolved considering the vast majority relies on group chat to talk to each other and pass on infomation don't you think its a major priority and not one to be left on the shelf with everyone asking WHEN WILL IT BE FIXED?
We have a major rollout to ram Adult Content down our throats, one that no doubt someone in upper management demanded be thrown into the wild so they can "stay on schedule" (Note the lack of a blog posting with a total lack of news about actual timetables for an AC rollout), and have to suffer through several weeks of totally broken group chat as a result.
Linden, I have two very relevant words for you regarding the total disregard for a critical feature of Second Life's social networking and smooth operation. "User animosity". Nice as it is to have fantasies about the corporations you're courting paying your bills, they don't, not right now. And the camel that's your userbase, I believe, has had just one more straw piled onto its back as a result of this sustained, inexcusable mess. When you have an issue this bad, you withdraw an update. I don't care what the reasons are for ramming it down the userbase's throat, when it's this bad, you pull it offline, fix it, then re-roll it. Group chat was already pretty broken, but at least it actually functioned consistently badly. Now it can't even identify what group it's malfunctioning for ([RECIPIENT]), and I have to literally copy-paste every single message I send to any group so I can repeatedly paste it into the send bar, averaging four attempts to get it through, and the target group isn't even all that large. I get yanked out of builds by error messages that steal the focus of the window, and spammed with DING, DING, DING several times a minute from the larger groups. Until there's an actual fix, I may have to take one of SL's bigger user groups, the FurNation community, and post a notice explaining precisely why group chat has been disabled. Though it would be a futile effort, as I doubt the notice would reach more than a third of them. Apalling. hum, yes they seem more concerned by issues which no one cares (adult content) than by really disturbing problem.
 This is just insane. I am now having to COPY/PASTE text lines into group chat as many as 10 TIMES before they send without an error! FIX THIS LINDENS!!! IT'S A MAJOR PART OF WHY I'M ON SL! It's called SOCIAL NETWORKING!!!
Tonight this also has finally once again went a step further in frustration to me..trying to set up a conference IM tongiht with 3 other friends had to be done 3 and 4 times by each of us before we were able to get one that allowed us all to see it without error messages.
Whats going to be next to fail local chat turning everyone into mutes? as one person said in a previous post. LL doesn't care about there residants. I had a person in support tell me such, but just not in those words. They prefer to add enhancments to make it better. But LL fails to look at the bigger picture that most of the common users computers that run SL can't handle the bells and whistles they keep imlamenting.
Perfect example. I have an older box that can only run AGP video cards. After drving around for 5 hours & 10 computer shops, no one carried a video card that was compatibale with SL. After contacting support he kept refering to the models of vidocards that were prefered ( those are the only ones that they support, their software does not support the min required cards.) That came straight from customer service. And I told him that they didn't come in an AGP style card, and asked for him to tell me what to do. He said he could help, that if i couldn't get the prefered cards (which even many of them don't run SL well any more, this came from a customer of mine in sl) that SL would probably not run right. And when i suggested forwarding my situation on to someone above support, or find me a video card that will work with my system & sl (I supplied my mother board model #) he replied there was no way he could forward anything that was disscussed in support chat. or reply out side of chat, So now the support person lied. Because cut and paste works very well for such things. so all in all if you don't have the big money to spend in SL, or buy top of the line computers, and perifferals they don't care. And they don't care that most common users can't afford to do the major upgrades needed to fully enjoy SL. In my opinion the only way to get LL attention is if you don't need a premium account down grade, and show your unhappy with them. It's about the only way to get a company that only cares about money to take notice. I would have posted the actuall chat transcript but know LL would have had a fit about that. "We are aware that it seems to have gotten substantially worse over the past few weeks."
It's crippled NCI. (New Citizens Inc) We had to take our group chat down about two weeks ago. TWO WEEKS. (Having it up was causing the error dialog to steal focus every time someone attempted to message the group, for (as near as we can tell) every member of the group.) For the last two weeks, one of the major forms of LL-independent user support in SL – NCI group chat – has been totally non-functional. This problem is, as near as I can tell, easy to cause to recur whenever desired. It's a show-stopping problem for many, many groups in SL. It's a major handicap for one of the major drawcards for SL. I can only trust that LL's best server programmers are scratching their heads over it. Failing that, LL must have eased out their server programmers – if so, I'm sure the user base (especially those working on the Open Source clients) would have people who would like a job, and would be more than qualified to start working on it. I shouldn't worry seshat, currently the SL mentor channels are operating less than 30% of the time
This Bug must be correct with the maximum priority, it torments all the group chat
At one point early in this JIRA I commented on the difficulty of doing anything at all in SL without having error messages interrupt my work and totally dominate my screen. This totally ruined my recreational time in-world. Focusing on a build or a script is almost impossible with the repeated errror messages anytime anyone else tries to post to the group.
However, my real life SO and I had seen a lot of potential here. We were eagerly planning a move to premium and a purchase of quite a few sims, and creating more commerce here. That would have meant a lot of cash going from us to LL. There is NO WAY we will undertake this now, simply because of this issue. We had been taking a wait-and-see position, delaying our move til this issue had been cleared up. The lack of attention paid to this issue has caused us to rethink that. LL truly does not communicate any sense of willingness to address something so basic as communication between it's users. How will they handle the next problem? There are businesses in place that are failing and/or severely being hurt by this problem. If LL does not value it's customers, how long do they think they will HAVE customers? This issue continues and it's intermittent but happens more often than not. Incoming group IM's, but also trying to start outgoing group IM's whether it's a group or a conference chat via calling cards. The written verbiage will appear on screen but the actual IM box will disappear after the error message is received. Have cleared group chat numerous times and this doesn't seem to fix the issue. Have even tried crossing my fingers.
not only is the issue continuing but it also happens when trying to post an IM to a group.
This is happening to me in almost all the groups I'm a member of. My quality of Second Life is diminished to nothing, because there is no reason to log in to Second Life, as I sit in my house in silence when I do log in. If communication in SL is so vital, why has this problem continued for over 2 years?
I think if you wrote the code, you should be able to fix the code? Hi, folks -
We've been hard at work making sure that we understand what's going on and developing confidence in our fix. I've good news to relate, which I have posted about on the public blog: http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/technology/blog/2009/07/01/a-status-update-on-group-chat Regards, Wow.
This failure has almost torn my groups to shreds. If we didnt have a Ning, we would be completely disintigrated. From a business point of view, I'm scared. LL, you have some very very big hitters coming to this genre of game, you better get this in line or you WILL miss out. As for fixes, I've tried them all... a few work for myself a few minutes, but talking to myself can be done in IM. I HAVE lost customers. Renters in my sims, renters in my stores. I understand the idea of moderation in the rollout, but why now? you've rolled out almost every release before this with wreckless abandon, yet now, with a possible fix in hand, you hold back. Not like your going to break it more. I AM Scared for SL's future when something this damaging can go on so long. An idea, roll it out, if it works, halliluia... if it fails, roll back, atleast we know your trying. They are doing a pilot rollout of 1.27.0 starting Wednesday, see http://status.secondlifegrid.net/2009/07/02/post682/
I've noticed a lot of problems with this issue over the past few weeks. Instead of getting better, every day it seems to get a little bit worse. This evening, I am not getting any error messages at all, but simply silence when I attempt to post something. I get no messages, and none are going out.
Much of my fun and recreation in SL has been affected by this, due to being unable to chat with groups, find out about events, and so on. However, I have a small business I am trying to start up, and cannot send out notices about that. I know of stores that are affected greatly by this because their customers are unable to hear about sales, openings, and other events. Group chat is an integral part of SL...it makes no sense that this issue cannot be fixed. But I am not a programmer or anything, so I understand there are things here I do not understand. A response form the Lindens, an explanation, a plan...anything would help, to show that there is concern and an attempt to fix it. Or maybe the Lindens are trying to tell us....but they keep sending notices through group chat....:-D Try notecrds, gang, those will work! This issue started last month first with RECIPIENT ERRORS to the Error I would get from a group I belong to but didn't have the window open. I came back from my holiday up north to today being the worst I've ever seen it. NOW you type and NOTHING happens, the screen stays blank on almost all my Group Chats.
The only one I've seen work was Fashion Emergency where I did get text through. But I'm not the only one being hit by it. You can send NOTE CARDS to the group, but you just can't type in it. You also can talk in Conference Calls, but not in GROUP CHAT. My group GIVE IT AWAY is about sharing and networking. I've sent feedback, I TRIED to get LIVE CHAT, but the java wouldn't update for IN GAME or OUT of GAME, and they removed the phone number to call otherwise when dealing with a technical issue. I've uninstalled and reinstalled SL twice. I've left feedback under others dealing with the GROUP CHAT issues. When this issue started first it was a couple times hard to post anything into the group, then it started getting to the point that even cut and paste you had to send it up to 10 times. Then it was lag where it dumped everything 15-20 mins later. It got to the point when I said something people would end up IMing me out of frustration because they couldn't post to the group, and then later today the whole screen went blank and anything you typed basically got lost in the void. Not even an ERROR this time, nothing. ODDLY ENOUGH, I didn't have this much issues until the NEW Viewer we were told to download and change to, if that helps any. Hopefully before this week is out they will have it all back up and running. Fingers crossed anyways. OK seriously does no one read any of the updates by Sardonyx Linden. IT IS A SERVER SIDE ISSUE NOT CLIENT SIDE AND IT WILL BE FIXED WITH THE NEW UPDATES THEY ARE ROLLING OUT SOON STOP BITCHING ABOUT IT AND JUST BE PATIENT THEY ARE WORKING AS FAST AS THEY CAN.
Correct this is server side, Group chat has had problems since April 2007, it has been constantly problematic albeit in subtlety different ways (everyone remember the huge Group chat delays where people put timestamps into the messages?) until server 1.26 rolled out, at that point Group chat became... boys and girls can we say ... broken? I knew you could. What has been promised is in essence a return to the halcyon days of April 2007 when group chat actually worked, reliably and quickly.
Roll on 1.27 Posted on Second Life Grid Status - Group Chat Issues
This has been a problem since 2007.
I LOVE SL and appreciate all the time and effort a LOT of people put into making this wonderful place for us to come to. Normally the quality of service I have received on even the most mundane issues is unexcelled. In almost 4 years I think I have asked for help MAYBE 3 times. I am asking now. Fixing groups would make it so so much better. I have submitted ticket after ticket on this issue, called LL, had everyone I could add to the vote, submit their own tickets, etc but this is not a priority item with LL it seems. The best I got was "We were unaware there was a problem with groups". This is a problem with EVERY group on every sim with every OS on every viewer. It affects all users. Yesterday most group stopped working altogether and as of this posting I have no way to let my staff, my VIPS know anything. Very time consuming and frustrating. Please urge all your friends to come here and add their feelings. TY LL but PLEASE FIX GROUPS!!! This problem has gone on WAY too long and needs to be resolved. IN the last 2 days there has been NO group chat! This was the worst SL upgrade EVER.
This is so annoying and so terrible. It's been going on forever, but just recently it's become impossible to use group chat. The lag time is about 30 minutes or more. PLEASE FIX THIS!!! And it's not just us...it's EVERYONE!
This problem is constant and consistent, and not limited to any one group. To add to this issiue now, opened group chats seem to stop at random. closing the box and reopening does not resolve the issue nor does re-logging. This merely adds insult to the injuries of the new viewer, which as a whole...... STINKS.
Ive had problems with group chats and multiple person ims for weeks now it either times out, closes as soon as a message is posted or wont send!! Im not seeing new ims being posted in the chat and im not getting alot of notices either. Group chat and im is an important thing for my business in sl and its starting to cause me major problems can we get this fixed by any chance communication is the most integral part of sl that everyone uses and without being able to communicate effectively with more than one person at a time what is the point?!!
This morning I couldn't talk at all in Group Chat it was blank. Then later this evening for a bit I was able to chat then suddenly it started again with errors. These are the two screen shots I took each time it happened.
xvxRUBYxvx Praga I had the same problem yesterday, Ruby. Reboot your sim and you'll be able to talk again. The rolling restart seems to have left older sims (server 1.26) incompatible with sessions started in server 1.27. It's just a guess, but rebooting Gallifrey fixed it for me.
This is STILL a MAJOR issue for nearly a month and a half – especially during prime times when we are hosting events.
Group chat with staff members is nearly impossible during USA evenings. At best only 20% of attempts to send a group chat IM get through. It has gotten to the point where i have to copy each and every post before I hit enter because more then likely it requires four or five attempts to get even one post through. Most group members don't even bother anymore. If you are still gathering data on this issue, the data is more then likely skewed by now since most people don't bother trying to use group chat during prime times now. Log on during USA evenings on any day and try to send group messages to any group size between 30 and 1000 group members. I may be able to understand failures to groups of 1000 VIP members but to small groups of 38 staff members when only about 10 or so are online at once is completely unacceptable. This is severely impacting the ability of my staff to communicate and is impacting my business. Just got the "your message wasn't sent" message in a Group Chat. It is not fixed.
Now we're at server release 1.27, and it seems many residents can chat again. It also means that the original failures re-appeared. Attached picture shows a pop-up when sending a message in an opened group chat: the error appears, and the message is echoed minutes later.
Although the reliability of Group chat is GREATLY improved over the 1.26 state it is still not satisfactory. The message "Unable to send your message to the chat session with [RECIPIENT]. Error making request, please try again later" (Which I believe first appeared with server 1.26) is singularly unhelpful when you ate involved in several discussions. I seem to recall a time when the actual [RECIPIENT] Chat Group was named.
68 Days and counting since this first reappeared as a show stopper on 1 June. Some progress has been made but group chat, even small groups of less then ten people online remains completely unsatisfactory. The chat failure messages continue to occur at all times of the day and night regardless of prime time status.
Managing a business with multiple employees at once is extremely difficult with these constant failures, excessive chat lag, posts out of order, poorly associated error messages, error messages preempting any other keyboard related activity, etc. The communications tools in SL are already primitive at best. Please fix one of the most important tools we do have ASAP. 90+ days now.
The situation improved slightly but recently has gotten worse again. Group chat is less the 50% reliable during prime time even for small groups of less then 50 members with fewer then ten people online. Often the group chat will not even establish or will hang for many long minutes before you get a failure message. Additionally, if you close a group chat session after a discussion and someone later sends an IM to the group it often fails to reopen so you never see the group chat. If someone sends a separate IM asking why you didn't respond, if you manually open the group chat tab, the discussion you missed is not there. A working email system may help take some of the load off the group chat system for information that does not require an immediate response or real time discussion. By email i mean something similar to POP3, not group notices or note card dropping. Lynne, the group chat is supposed to remain closed if you close it. This is so you can turn off chat from extremely active groups when you're busy with something else or just not interested in seeing it.
I was just about to post that but Redwood beat me to it. Yes the IM chat is suppose to be that way. When you close the IM window it won't open again until you relog. Then it will one a new message has been sent.
Generally if you have a group that you need to "watch" but is not active all the time, you need to relog or leave it open once you receive a message on it during that session. Thanks both Redwood and DBDigital.
Redwood's response led me to look it up in the wiki and it indeed seems that one person's annoyance can be another person's nice feature. I need all the IM tab real estate i can get so close inactive tabs to keep active and flashing IM tabs all on the screen and visible. I'm sure individual IMs would be greatly reduced though if we could depend on group chat. I'd request they make that a preferences option but at this point I'd be happy just to have it functional. DB, Lynne,
Yes, the feature enables you to temporarily close group chats. This does not work for person to person IMs, which will keep popping up. At times this is indeed handy, especially with more active groups. However, DB, you do not need to relog to reopen a group that you had closed earlier. Simply going to the Friends/Groups screen (Ctrl+Shift+F) and manually reopening the group chat will reactivate it. Bugs, my apologies, I should have been more clear in my statements in that it only applied to group chats and that the relogging was only if you wanted that particular group chat to reopen automatically when a message was posted after you have closed it for that particular session.
It has gone better for a while, but lately I keep getting more and more of these error messages when posting to Group Chat again.
Basically, it is the 1.26 issue all over again, except that the messages will ultimately appear, but it takes up till several minutes for them to do so. Group Chat overall is getting slower again, but the problem does seem to be consistently worse in some groups. My specs: libcurl Version: libcurl/7.18.1 OpenSSL/0.9.8j zlib/1.2.3 At this moment in time, I am no longer able to start a session with some of my groups. We need this fixed - and FAST!
Is anyone named Linden even watching this issue please? And again the group chat problem rears its ugly head.
Same as before. Im not wasting my time going into detail as lots and lots of people have been putting every detail of this here since 2007! Please comment and get your friends to comment on this as the squeaky wheel gets the oil! The issue is back with the additional symptom that sometimes IMs addressed to you go to mail instead. This along with the os so useful [RECIPIENT] message.
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Bug
Reopened
Showstopper
Error message when starting and posting to a group IM session
» http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/11/27/logins-group-ims-impacted-for-116th-of-population/
Can you please invite me (Torley Linden) to affected groups so I can try to reproduce this issue?