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Key: SVC-1446
Type: New Feature New Feature
Status: Open Open
Priority: Critical Critical
Assignee: Unassigned
Reporter: beam ray
Votes: 120
Watchers: 13
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2. Second Life Service - SVC

DMCA response should be to block all instances of stolen goods from SL, not just close vendors

Created: 05/Feb/08 09:39 AM   Updated: 08/Aug/08 09:31 AM
Component/s: None
Affects Version/s: None
Fix Version/s: None

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 Description  « Hide
Linden Lab currently responds to a DMCA notification by removing specifically indicated vendors from the system. Content creators who want to claim infringement are given the impression that this is the only thing Linden Lab needs to do, or can do. It is my understanding that this is not strictly correct and that Linden Lab is in fact obliged as per the DMCA to block *all* infringing content from the servers.

It is my understanding that objects in Second Life have a unique identifier, the UUID. It is also my understanding that this identifier is unchanged when an object is copied, for instance into the inventory of another user who received or bought the item. If LL received a DMCA notification saying that an object with a certain UUID is infringing, LL could respond by removing or blocking all instances of this object from their servers. If such a technology does not exist today, it could at least be developed. In addition, it is important that people who have such items in their inventory should receive a notification that this object is subject to a DMCA notification, so that this is not confused with bugs or asset loss.

Unfortunately it is not possible for a content creator to determine the UUID of infringing items, as this information is not given for infringing items they did not create themselves. A content creator can however uniquely identify the infringing item to LL, either in their own inventory (they can buy the item), or by pointing to the item in a specific vendor, much like is done now. LL can then retrieve the UUIDs of the infringing objects that make up the infringing item, and block them.

Doing this instead of just blocking vendors could have two positive effects:

* it would allow LL to better fulfill what I understand are the actual requirements of the DMCA.

* blocking all copies of an item will be a far more effective measure against infringers. It is more difficult to just set up a new store selling the same items again; at the very least a new texture must be uploaded first. In addition, the customers of infringing items will notice their items have been removed and/or blocked. This will be bad for the reputation of the infringer. Of course a persistent infringer can still make trouble, but it will be harder.

A positive negative side effect is that DMCA notifications for the purposes of harassment have a bigger impact as well - a content creator and his or her customers would all lose access to the item a DMCA notification is made about. The resolution would of course be a counter-notification by the content creator, resulting in an unblocking of the identified items.

Some development on the part of LL seems to be required. Because there is a requirement to unblock, the best way to implement this would be to allow blocking (and not removing) of items by LL. Finding all objects with a certain UUID in a database may also be an expensive operation. It is also important users get some form of notification on why their items are suddenly blocked, so that this is not confused with data loss bugs or server problems - this requires client and user interface enhancements. Tools that help LL identify the UUIDs of infringing items and easily block them might also need to be developed. It is unfortunate that so much development would be required to provide this service, but it would seem to be in LL's interest to develop it.

It may be that blocking textures is a lot easier to implement than it is to block the reuse of other objects. Even if a general case cannot be developed quickly, it may still be worth it to tackle the texture case independently, as this may already block a large class of problem cases.

It is possible that my assumptions about UUID behavior are incorrect. In this case a system to track copies of objects would need to be developed as well.

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DMCA Section 512:

        "(1) In general.—A service provider shall not be liable for monetary relief, or, except as provided in subsection (j), for injunctive or other equitable relief, for infringement of copyright by reason of the storage at the direction of a user of material that resides on a system or network controlled or operated by or for the service provider, if the service provider—

            "(A)(i) does not have actual knowledge that the material or an activity using the material on the system or network is infringing;

                "(ii) in the absence of such actual knowledge, is not aware of facts or circumstances from which infringing activity is apparent; or

                "(iii) upon obtaining such knowledge or awareness, acts expeditiously to remove, or disable access to, the material;

            "(B) does not receive a financial benefit directly attributable to the infringing activity, in a case in which the service provider has the right and ability to control such activity; and

            "(C) upon notification of claimed infringement as described in paragraph (3), responds expeditiously to remove, or disable access to, the material that is claimed to be infringing or to be the subject of infringing activity.
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Linden Lab does not appear to comply with 512(1)(A), in that they allow copies of the infringing material to remain.

Note that this issue proposes a *specific* set of service enhancements to let LL handle DMCA notifications more effectively. It is not a general issue about copyright infringement or ways to combat these. Please discuss other ideas on separate issues.


 All   Comments   Change History      Sort Order: Ascending order - Click to sort in descending order
Lex Neva - 05/Feb/08 11:15 AM
I know from anecdotal evidence that LL already has the capability to do this, and has done this on at least one occasion. My friend sold a product that may have infringed on the Intellectual Property rights of a certain popular series of video games (depending on your interpretation of IP laws). She came back from an extended absence from SL to find that her product didn't work. When she tried to rez it, she got an error message to the effect that the object could not be rezzed because it had been blacklisted. All copies of the product across the grid had stopped working.

Zorin Frobozz - 05/Feb/08 07:59 PM
Doing anything that can break content is generally a bad idea.

For instance, say that two years ago I used what I thought was a freebie texture in my home. I spent hours aligning it to get it to look good on a wall or floor, or whatever. The creator of the texture eventually finds it has been copied, and issues a DMCA request.

Suddenly my home has broken textures everywhere.

So do homes all over SL who happened to use that texture, which was used in good faith by the builders, thinking the texture was a freebie.

This has the potential to destroy hours of work aross dozens of sims. Is the solution to texture theft the potential mass breakage of content? This has the potential to throw out a lot of babies with the bathwater, and the creator of the texture won't be seen as the victim of copyright infringement, but rather "that jerk whose whining broke my build".

Not good.

Just my three cents...-Z

beam ray - 06/Feb/08 07:29 AM
Zorin, not blocking infringing content means that LL is not properly complying with a DMCA notification, as far as I understand it, no matter what effect it will have on the people who innocently use the infringing content. That's the legal argument.

In addition you can make the argument that a blocking notice actually informs people that the content they are using may be infringing, so they can move on to more reputable sources. It makes people care about the issue. Not blocking this content means that the infringing use can continue indefinitely without anyone ever caring. People will discover their houses have blocked walls, their outfits have blocked textures perhaps, or their skins have gone blank. If the blocking notice is informative enough, they can find out why, and they can start to take action to correct it. That sounds like a good thing for everybody, as I don't think most people don't actually want to be using infringing materials by accident.

The main risk I see is DMCA notification griefing. If I hate creator X, I can send in a DMCA notification, causing all content by creator X to be blocked, leading creator X in trouble. Creator X will then have to come up with a counter-DMCA notification. It's important that especially counter notifications can be processed quickly so that such griefing can be countered quickly.

Lex Neva - 06/Feb/08 10:09 AM
Beam, re DMCA notice griefing: I think LL gives the target of a DMCA notice time to respond with a counterclaim before just blithely removing the offending content. This is part of the DMCA legal process, I believe.

Zorin: In almost every other instance, I'd agree with you that breaking existing content is something LL should avoid at all costs. However, in the case of intellectual property rights, I think breaking content is fair game in order to protect the rights of someone whose rights have been infringed. There's no "good faith" clause to copyright law: just because you didn't know that a certain material you bought or received was unlawfully distributed to you doesn't mean that you get a free pass to use it. It does mean that you're unlikely to actually have to pay damages, but that's mostly because the penalties for a single use of a given copyrighted material are relatively minor. If you don't have the right to use an illegally copyrighted material, you don't, and your use of it shouldn't be defended to the detriment of its copyright holder.

The only other legal loophole I know of that applies here is that of trademark dilution. Trademark dilution law (legal precedent, actually, I think) says that if you don't defend a trademark that's being infringed for a long period, then you can't suddenly start trying to sue everyone who's started using your trademark. For example, "kleenex" is a trademark for tissue, but it's become so commonly used that the trademark holder has mostly lost control over the word and can't suddenly start suing everyone who uses the term as a generic word for tissue.

I don't know whether that kind of dilution even applies to copyright, but if it does, I still don't think it'd apply in the case you've outlined UNLESS the copyright holder was well aware of the fact that the texture was being distributed and purposefully waited for a long time until a large number of people had received and used the texture.

In short, I don't think that putting a few hours into building using a given texture gives you rights that trump the original copyright holder of the texture. If you want to avoid this kind of thing, you should be sure of your right to use a texture before using it.

Jacob Cagney - 07/Feb/08 08:47 PM
I am confused..

If I create and upload a texture.. it is assigned a UUID.. if someone *steals* that texture.. wouldn't it be the same UUID unless they re-uploaded the texture in order to get a different UUID assigned to it?

If it is the same UUID.. then wouldn't that interfere with all the items I built with the texture.. and those who bought it legitimately from me? If it is the same UUID.. then it would make me look like a thief even if I am the original *creator* / uploader of the texture.

Seems to me it would be easier to find a way to digitally *sign* the texture with some type of watermark that includes the Avatar name, date and name of the texture.

This way if two textures need to be compared to each other.. LL could extract the digital watermark and compare dates, times and names.

Linden Labs needs teeth when it comes to dealing with issues like this.. just canceling an account.. or telling a person to take down the products/texture and having them re-rez it under an Alt.. LL needs a way to kick the offender from the service completely.. killing account, banning based on payment information etc.. would have more effect than just a take down order.. and would have more effect than blocking UUID's system wide.

Why punish the innocent for the offenses of a few?




miss hera - 08/Feb/08 03:24 PM
In some cases people use the original UUID. In some cases people use outside programs to steal textures, and reupload them again, by which they have a different UUID.

Removing UUIDs which are different can and should be done, since it only stops the stolen items. Removing stolen items which use the same UUIDs probably is no good idea. (unless the creators are willing to give a new item to all that were deleted)

In cases where the UUID is the same, but the creator is different its still is possible to distinguish between a real and fake object, (combination of creator and UUID) and if what Lex Neva says is true, it is probably technically possible too to block those.

It would be helpfull if some UUIDs were linked to the creator of an item so if the UUID is used in an object with another listed as creator the object it won't work. (this probably only works for skins and clothing, since in other objects people can add a prim and change the creator)

Lex, could you please give us some more information about the anecdote or the name of the friend? It might help this thread a lot.

Lex Neva - 08/Feb/08 03:58 PM
I'd rather not give any more information than I already have. It's enough to know that LL _does_ have the capability to blacklist certain assets by UUID.

Lily Lioncourt - 14/Feb/08 07:57 AM
I think a good point has been made here - if I legitimately bought a texture from its legal owner and then used it on products either for my own use or for resale, what happens to the objects I created if later that texture is stolen and banned? This could have far ranging effects that could be extremely harmful far beyond protecting certain products. I agree that something decisive needs to be done about plagiarism in SL and the ease with which the perpetrators repeatedly offend... These people aren't just offending the residents' sensibilities, they are breaking real laws. But screaming "Off with its head" is too general and may not be a real solution to a more complex problem.

And Miss Hera, if you right click on an object - select More - then select More again - you can then select Inspect which will tell you the original creator of every prim in an object.

beam ray - 14/Feb/08 09:01 AM
Lex Neva, it's interesting to hear about LL capabilities to do this.

On DMCA griefing, I do not know whether LL currently notifies the user of the DMCA request *before* or *after* they take action. I was assuming after - the DMCA procedure only requires this. The DMCA-ed person can then turn around and file a counter-notification, which can then return the block.

If LL sent that DMCA notification information along to the potential infringer, it'd be a very simple matter for an infringer currently to invalidate the DMCA notification, by moving things to another store (or even just moving things in the same store might confuse the Lindens enough to reject the notification). LL will then do nothing.

Of course if item blocks were to be issued instead, another system could be devised which would get the accused to respond before the block takes effect. It would still be relatively easy for someone who wants to do harm to prepare for the block and start selling items with new UUIDs instead. This means the store would be relatively unaffected - customers would be, and they could then recontact the store and the owner could then issue the new items immediately. It'd be better in that case if the store were directly affected first and repeat-infringers had to respond *after* the block. It's hard to say how serious an issue DMCA griefing would be at this point.


miss hera - 14/Feb/08 08:24 PM
Lily, if you bought the texture from the legal seller, blocking textures with other UUIDs won't hurt your textures. In that case they will be unaffected. Only the stolen textures will be blocked.

If a thief steals a texture with the same UUID, then simply blocking the UUID won't be any good, since it will destroy the legal objects too. In NO case that should be done.

But it would still be possible (for skins, clothing etc) to block ONLY the stolen items, by taking into acount the creators name AND the UUID. (UUID + wrong creators name = block object). Then the legal objects will be unaffected, but the wrong ones blocked.

For a prim object it will be harder, since people can add a prim, and thereby list themselves as the creator. But for skins, clothing layers etc, it would be a good solution.

In no case people who bought legal content should be hurt.

Maryn Zenovka - 15/Feb/08 05:34 PM
These thieves should be subject to more than just vendor closing, they should be subject to the fines and penalties one would face in RL . Linden currency IS real currency as it is exchangeable with many countries currencies. Copyright infringement is ILLEGAL.

Gigs Taggart - 15/Feb/08 08:16 PM
A little background on the DMCA.

Upon getting a DMCA complaint.. the provider MUST remove all alleged infringing content in a timely manner... without judging whether it really is infringing or not.

Upon getting a counterclaim, the provider MUST restore the content in a timely manner... without judging whether it's infringing or not.

After getting the counterclaim, the provider gives each party the other party's contact information, so they can sort it out in court.

It's that simple.

As for DMCA abuse.. the DMCA includes severe penalties for people filing false or frivolous DMCA claims.

beam ray - 21/Feb/08 04:58 AM
Thanks for that summary, Gigs. The concern of this issue is this bit: "the provider MUST remove *all* infringing content in a timely manner". Currently the provider is not removing all infringing content, but only the vendors indicated that are selling the infringing content.

miss hera - 27/Feb/08 05:34 AM
It does not happen in a 'timely manner' as well.

Seraphina Tereshchenko - 12/Mar/08 12:22 PM
I am new to SL. Being such, I wander the "Freebie" shops and such. I have seen the same Items sold for L$0 to L$19 depending on which shop I was in. As far as I could tell, the cretor of the item was not the shop keeper. How is a (newer)person to tell if the item in question truely is an "infringment" item or not PRIOR to the purchase? I'm sure most ppl would rather support legal content that stolen if there is a way to do so.

I agree that it is a serious matter that should be given full weight. SL should take all sides of this problem into acct. Yes, it is a legal matter and we need a legal answer to it. If content is truely stolen it should be removed/disabled/blocked/etc. I also feel that those who paid in Good Faith for the stolen item should be refunded the money they spent in Good Faith for the item.

Punishment should fit the crime. I agree, banning accts is the way to go for the theif, and let's see the funds, if any, on that banned acct go to refund the purchases and then to damages for the content creators. If SL is going to "police" the issue, they need to also included a way to file a claim against the theif for all victoms of the crime. There should be a time limit in place for this also, ie 30 days or such. The Good Faith consumers are victoms as well as the creators of the stolen items. Why let the theif go on in SL? Ban the acct, block the IP and black list the RL info of the acct (ie cc info, billing address, name etc.).

As far as banning the theif's acct, I believe SL should ban ALL accts from the IP, payment info (cc#, paypal acct, etc) billing adress, any and all RL info as the banned acct. SL should send a strong message to the theives. If 1 theif has 4 accts,for example, all the accts should be banned and any of the above described identifers should be black listed from having future accts. I also think any accts linked this way to the banned acct should be drained of their funds, setting up an escrow acct to fund the claims filed against the theif. Once the set time has elasped, the remaining funds would then be released to the Plaintiff Creator.

I believe it would be a mistake to simply say "settled it in court". That is all fine and dandy for the creator, but SL should honestly keep an eye out for the consumer as well. If its left with "settle it in court" how do we get notified of the the info to do so? What standard is going to be used? Is there going to be an island setup for ppl to go to read the legal notices and receive a notecard from so they too can "go to court"? If its "policed" here, we need to keep it here. If the Legal Creator so chooses RL court, thats their choice. SL needs to put in place a full system for penalties if they go to blocking items which should include a path for consumers. If we make the arguement of RL legal content infringing, we need to also include the fact that ppl use RL $ to fund their purchases (atleast a good portion do) of said infringed content.

Just my own personal thoughts. I am not a creator just yet but please don't dismiss my views. I am a consumer and I do care about this issue.

hulk ah - 18/Mar/08 12:34 AM
I totally agree with this post. This is what should be done when people use copyrighted material ilegally!



Tijn Erde - 19/Mar/08 02:46 PM - edited
How about dealing with it like this;

Don't remove stolen content, but remove ALL permissions for it.

Honest, scammed buyers could keep on using the things they already bought, but further distribution would be blocked.

As far as I can see, this would protect both parties.

miss hera - 25/Mar/08 04:25 AM
Great idea tijn. distribution and resale/freebie spread hurts the Sl economy and original creator the most.

Stones Beaumont - 27/Mar/08 11:01 AM
Tijn Erde -

I think that is an excellent idea.

However controls should have been put in place years ago before people even started building-

With this system implemented today, any legitimate builder who used a texture in good faith from one of the the many thousands of textures out there from the many texture stores out there could still have their products blocked by buying a full permisions or Copy/ Xfer version of that texture.

I honestly think this problem is much too big for Linden Labs to handle in this manner without doing some serious damage to the SL environment. Unless however some type of reporting and notification could be done and time given so that it would allow creators to take action, repair products before their wares are disabled from being sold.

We have had a "Snowball" effect and I think it's a bigger problem than anyone realizes.

As soon as any object or creation that is distributed with "Full Permissions". Thousands... maybe millions of copies of that product are created in game over time.

I have a much larger problem with "Resell" or "Full Permissions" than I do with SL trying to enforce the DMCA.

Imagine what would happen if people had the ability to sell a Shoe in Real Life for $ .25 with little or no overhead and the person who buys those shoes can duplicate them at will and sell them for whatever they want. What would happen to the price of shoes in general? Everyone would have as many pairs of shoes as they wanted and the companies trying to make a better shoe using more overhead (Like in Research and Development) would go out of business.

The Fact that items can be set with Full permissions for Sale has compounded the problem that is being addressed in this thread.




Tijn Erde - 27/Mar/08 01:24 PM
So how about implementing no-permissions for stolen textures starting TODAY?

Besides, we're not just talking about "generic" textures using in building objects, we're talking about skins and clothing textures which are only useful for those purposes and complete objects stolen by abusing past SL bugs. None of these are usable as part of another object, so all of these could have permissions removed without damage to anybody's creative work. (and as for resellers, they can always just go to the original creator and ask for permission to resell as they should have done in the first place; material not explicitely licensed otherwise is considered copyrighted).

One might hold the argument that people may have bought something for resale, not knowing it was stolen. If this happened in real life, you would be legally able to sell such stolen items only as long as you are unaware of them being stolen. So; have LL send every person using the stolen object a message, then remove all permissions; these people couldn't legally sell the objects any more anyway, since now they know it's stolen.

Thraxis Epsilon - 27/Mar/08 03:40 PM
Just to clarify something. Linden Lab can only remove the material you specifically identify in the DMCA request. If you look at the DMCA policy of other sites (google, youtube, veoh, etc) they all say the same thing. You must identify the specific items you wish to have blocked.

With that said. I don't think anyone has filed a takedown request on a specific UUID located on the Linden Lab Asset server

Gigs Taggart - 29/Mar/08 07:06 AM
Stones,

Please keep this Jira on topic. Your opinion that creators should not be allowed to release their work for free is a pretty radical position and really doesn't have anything to do with this request.

IAm Zabelin - 02/Apr/08 06:29 PM
Come on LL, put your finger our your butt with this!

You PROMISED content creators action after you messed up with Copybot, that was YEARS AGO and NOTHING has been done.

Content creators feel as if you've turned your backs on them ... when SL was an infant you needed content and made all sorts of promises, now there's lots of content, so you assume you don't need more.

The copy problem is getting worse, and that proves the theft : original ratio has is going tits up ... many creators are just giving up, you're creating a free-bee platform now, where everything will look the same throughout the grid, and economy will die. WAKE UP.

You need to get a team together and start creating action plans and implement them, without stopping.

beam ray - 11/Apr/08 01:59 PM
Thraxis said: "I don't think anyone has filed a takedown request on a specific UUID located on the Linden Lab Asset server"

That's not true - I know for a fact there was at least one such request. Linden Lab said they removed these, but in fact the assets continued to exist as before. There have also been several attempts to identify UUIDs that were not directly accessible indirectly by specifying a vendor location, but LL has not acted as requested in these cases either.


nemesis box - 01/May/08 11:36 AM
with all this security lack of creating things, i am rather thinking to start selling my items, door by door, instead of having it on a shop.
Since i became a Premium account user i have been thinking that many privileges to FREE AVATARS is the starting point of the problem, most of thieves hide on this avatars. Meanwhile all this keeps been the same i prefer to keep my items in my brain and away from pirates!!!

Universal Infinity - 06/Jun/08 06:12 AM
I'm sorry but this 'issue' has a simple enough means to resolve it: Follow the rather complex and insane lettering of the policy and DMCA!

Want more than just a simple vendor set removed? find the UUID of the stolen content and supply that.

Incidentally ... There ARE ways to get the UUID of an 'infringing item'. The most notable would be using the same software that was used to MAKE the item in the first place. I also remember seeing a few in world items capable of getting UUIDs from just about any object .... And THOSE are well within the Terms of Service!

If all else fails you could petition LL to give you the UUID of an 'infringing' item ..... or just ban all content creation as a whole.

Sorry for the way this sounds .... No I'm not - I have no sympathy for those looking to make their job simpler or who refuse to follow the proper channels and methods.

Please hold all responses until they can be reasoned and well thought out.

Tijn Erde - 06/Jun/08 12:14 PM
You seem to be under the false impression that LL correctly handles valid DMCA requests.

Please hold all responses until you have read the previous comments, which explained this already.

Lex Neva - 06/Jun/08 12:33 PM
The solution to dealing with LL not correctly handling DMCA requests is to sue them ;)

Universal Infinity - 06/Jun/08 03:03 PM
Tjin, you seem to be under the impression that I have not read the prior comments: I have and have found them to be the comments of users wanting an easier path and not looking for ways to work within the system.