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Issue Details (XML | Word | Printable)

Key: MISC-608
Type: Meta Issue Meta Issue
Status: Open Open
Priority: Major Major
Assignee: Unassigned
Reporter: oryx tempel
Votes: 94
Watchers: 8
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4. Second Life Misc Issues - MISC

Meta-Issue: Ad Farms

Created: 22/Aug/07 11:51 AM   Updated: 18/Apr/09 05:33 PM
Component/s: None
Affects Version/s: None
Fix Version/s: None

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 Description  « Hide
A collection of all the proposals for ad-farm related activities. The fact that there are so many indicates to me that we need to push for some sort of action on this. I'm sure I've missed a few... please add them when you find them!

I would encourage people to not only sift through the individually linked issues, but to also vote for this Meta-Issue in general; just to indicate that we want SOMETHING to be done.



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Haravikk Mistral added a comment - 28/Sep/07 01:29 AM
Added: SVC-603 = which in summary proposes a way of making these against terms of service more-so in residential simulators.

Haravikk Mistral added a comment - 28/Sep/07 01:39 AM
I'd like to add a comment that I made in SVC-246.
The problem is that many solutions to ad-farming are technical ones, however ad-farming is NOT a technical issue. If you start imposing restrictions on land-size and such then you only make land-management even more confusing, and may harm the ability to use parcel-division for legitimate reasons, or harm honest advertisers who only wish to place unobtrusive adverts that fit the area they are placed in.
Things like the ability to hide objects you don't want to see may help discourage it if they are done right.

However, really the ad-farming problem is because of LL's unwillingness to do anything about it. The issue is that excessive ad-farming is not disallowed! If an advertiser were to have a well-placed and unobtrusive advert, on a plot that either isn't for sale, or is for sale a reasonable price, then there is no reason to get rid of them. But farmers that place advertisers that are huge and spin or flash should be disallowed.
It really is as simple as LL disallowing "Excessively obtrusive advertising" or something better worded, at which point advertisers either have to do it properly, or bugger off when they get all their stuff returned.


Ann Otoole added a comment - 24/Jan/08 06:34 PM
some sims need to be zoned rsidential. some sims need to be zoned commercial. some commercial sims need to be zoned in a manner that creates a transition from residential to commercial. a transition sim would have to be between a commercial and a residential sim. this way ugly ad farms would not be visible from the residential sims.

actually, there needs to be residential/aesthetic mainlands separate from anything goes mainlands. do i really need to elaborate on this?
the existing mainland is a garbage dump reminiscent of the movie Idiocracy.

make a new mainland where all commercial business is forbidden and allow existing non business parcel owners to emigrate off the dump. then let the ad farmers have a blast in the dump. nobody will ever go there anyway so eventually they will quit sl or quit paying tier and the issue will work itself out.


Montana Corleone added a comment - 27/Jan/08 08:09 AM - edited
Surely if enough people complain, it becomes objectional behaviour, and we are all objecting.

Also, it's one of the 'Big Six' on Community Standards:

6. Disturbing the Peace
Every Resident has a right to live their Second Life. Disrupting scheduled events, repeated transmission of undesired advertising content, the use of repetitive sounds, following or self-spawning items, or other objects that intentionally slow server performance or inhibit another Resident's ability to enjoy Second Life are examples of Disturbing the Peace.


Harleen Gretzky added a comment - 27/Jan/08 01:02 PM
VWR-4121calls for applying #6 against them.

nina stepford added a comment - 10/Feb/08 10:20 AM
ffs just ban adfarms.
its not that complex of a solution.

Prokofy Neva added a comment - 13/Feb/08 08:50 PM
Hands off the trigger, "good citizens", do not close this issue due to this post:
http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/02/13/mainland-and-the-ad-farm-problem/

Game not over.


McCabe Maxsted added a comment - 13/Feb/08 08:56 PM
raises an eyebrow Nothing in that blog post would warrant closing this issue anyway.

Tyrian Camilo added a comment - 13/Feb/08 10:49 PM
actually for sale, and the price which it is set at even isn't an issue.

There is dozens of perfectly valid reasons to ask 20k L$ for an 32sqm, other tha nextortion or griefing. (Location, Location, Location! Supply VS. Demand)

Only Ad Farming itself is the problem, where it causes eyesore, lost views etc.

Maybe somekind of rule that ads shall not float, nor be eyesore. The new blogposting is excellent however!


Melanie Milland added a comment - 15/Feb/08 06:52 AM
I can see no feasible technical solution to adfarms, it's always a judgement call. However, if someone is found in violation repeatedly, they should have their account cancelled, all their prims returned immediately and lose all land, which would revert to Governor Linden.

At that point, the 3-sides rule could apply: If someone owns all but one ownable sides adjoinging an abandoned parcel, they get first dibs on buying it. Multiple pieces of land (like a group of 16m2's) would be considered one piece, and their outer borders would be considered the ownable sides.
Then, with some resident cooperation, those ex-adfarms could be returned to normal use.

Otherwise, they would come up for auction at some point.
Currently, land auctions are a manual process, but I believe I have heard mention of making that process more automated. Certainly, land considered for auction should be joined before being offered.

There might be some help in a technical tweak that should not be too hard to implement at simulator level: If a parcel is abandoned for any reason, and it adjoins a parcel that has also been abandoned, these two parcels should be auto-joined (possibly only if at least one of them is less than 512m2)

By reclaiming land held by eyesore adfarmers, they would be forced to start again at zero - now, how many would do that?

This is not aimed at legitimate advertisers, who place adverts of a type consistent with the development of the sim (e.g. real-life-like billboards at the edge of a linden road), or even 3 cubes at a reasonable height. There are examples of such ethical advertisers in SL, and I am all for keeping them in business.
One thing those people have in common is that they will not buy ad parcels in ad farms, but only isolated 16m2's.

SL needs effective advertising, it does't need eyesore adfarmers.

One more thing that might make some ads go away is if it were against TOS to advertise gambling websites inworld. A fair percentage of eyesore ads are for gambling websites, which are replacements for the inworld casinos. Banning that type of content would make a lot of the worst adcubes vanish.


lorissia fraisse added a comment - 20/Jun/08 06:34 PM
I have read a huge number of posts, and jira comments on ad farms and I can't, either, come up with a viable solution that LL would undertake. AR'ing them takes manpower and they don't seem to be willing to extend that just because we, as landowners, are uncomfortable with the eyesore parasites to our hard earned traffic.

Island folks won't comment pro to any of this because they seem bittered by paying higher tier than us mainland owners, and think we deserve it for some reason. Zoning mainland would take away everyone's freedom to build. Islands are zoned by their owners, not LL, and while many people are learning to build on their new mainland plots, it may not be pretty but it's their right to do. We all did it once. This new idea floating around to zone mainland wouldn't stop anything but the ability to open up a shop. People can still use the land to build shops, or houses, or trees, or anything they want to 'build' , all it would do is keep them from 'selling it ' on their home plot. I doubt that would make any residential area any different than it is now. If residential areas are needed, shop around for someone with a sim dedicated to just that. They aren't likely to have ad farms on it. Why try to govern what people do with their land? One of my lands is a full mainland sim. I don't have trouble with ad farmers there. It's other places that I own where I don't own the full sim that these parasites pop up. They just want to make money leeching off other people's traffic. And stop allowing the ad farmers to AR those of us who have bigger plots of land from boxing them in. If they can land on their own land and see their ads, pay for classifieds so that people can land there to see their ads, more power to them. But if the plot is too small to stand on, they shouldn't have the ability to AR someone with 16k meters next door who uses their own land and their own prims to wall them off from view.

Maybe we can get LL to take all AR'd ad plots , back them up and move them all to an "ad farm" sim, where all the parcels are 16 or 32 and they all live side by side to one another until the ad farmers buy EACH OTHER out. They wouldn't lose their land, just the location of it.

There are so many viable uses for a 16m2 parcel for larger landowners, (slx boxes, rental boxes, etc) that they can't really take away the ability to parcel off, or transfer, small parcels into or out of groups, etc.

I think the only idea I can come up with that's not 'sided' or exploitive to anyone would be the limit of ability to raise prims above 3 meters on a 16m2 parcel. In other words, put a ceiling on small plots of land. You can't go up higher than 3 meters. That limitation would easily house slx boxes, or rental boxes, most of which are 1x1x1 anyway.

To answer one comment I read about terminals, all the terminals I've ever had placed on my land were placed and set to group and didn't need a plot of their own. Limitations should be strict on a parcel as small as this. Legitimate users of it will work within the limitations or parcel a bigger plot for it, and won't complain because it will make these parasites move on.


amilie anatine added a comment - 23/Jun/08 09:32 PM
I have the right, as a land owner, to use my land however i want within the covenant that was in place when i bought it. On mainland there is no covenant. As long as i do not break the community guidelines, the objects on my land will serve my purpose. The view to my land from any direction, land, sky, N, S, E and W I cannot control, therefore nobody should control me and what i put on my land, at any altitude as long as it is not a mature message in a PG sim, as long as it is not derogatory etc.

I also have the right to sell my land for whatever price i wish, based on my judgement of the market. if it doesnt sell at my price i shouldnt be forced to sell for lower.

I have the right to have easy access to my land, and not have surrounding land blocking the use of my land on all 4 sides for hundreds of meters up and down.

If my land were a 512 any blocking, complaints about the view, pressure to sell at a certain price or reclamation would be unheard of and considered abuse.

why should this be different for a 16m2?

as an owner of 16m2 I pay tier through my premium membership. I am a true land owner and should not be descriminated against.

16m2 billboards do not cause as much lag as campers or zyngo.

16m2 billboards are no more obstructive of views, or spamming of ads as any typical mainland mall.

stop picking on the little parcels!!!!

I bought the land already split, i didnt split it up and im not here to force you to move. I have the right to own it and use it.


Tabliopa Underwood added a comment - 07/Jul/08 05:27 AM - edited
If mainland was to be re-covenanted then I think that prim usage maybe a better way to address the issue.

To put up an adsign you obviously need prims. Suppose that owners holding less than an aggregated parcel minimum (128m or 64m or whatever) on a sim get allocated zero prims. Fallow land it might be called.

When fallow land is aggregated and/or added to an existing aggregation that brings it up to the minimum acreage on a sim then the owner gets to use the prims as they do now.

If fallow land was introduced then it could be grandfathered in. Existing owners of fallow land plots get to continue to use their prim allocation as is their right under the existing covenant. If and when they choose to sell their plots then the buyer is bound by the fallow land covenant.

Some skaddies (owners of tiny little adplots) might shriek at this a little, but I'm sure that they would agree:

1) I did buy the land to build on and enjoy. Something not being taken away from me here.
2) A 3-prim build is worth umm! 3 prims. Unless I'm an exceptionally talented builder, whereupon people are always happy to reward me handsomely.
3) Desirable locations will always fetch a premium.
4) Property is worth whatever someone else is prepared to pay for it.

The only other real concern left is that I bought my land with the intent to sell it later for a profit. But so did most other people so this is a non-issue really. Emotive as it may be at times.

And, balancing this it will bring small parcel pricing more into line with LLs stated intent to manage mainland into the 4-6L range per sqm. Most skaddies will continue to back themselves anyway to make money churning realty, no matter what the covenant is.

Personally I'm not a fan of retrospective covenanting. In an ideal world, fallow land covenants would be introduced in new mainland sims. However, given the problems with spam ad-farming on many of the mainland sims, a grandfathered fallow land covenant based on prim usage maybe a basis on which to move forward.


Beestal Xi added a comment - 22/Jul/08 09:20 PM
I think a 512 or 256sqm minimum parcel size on the mainland would benefit the whole community. Simply grandfather any existing parcels that are smaller than the minimum and allow them to be marketed freely just as they are now, so as to not unfairly take away anyone's ownership rights. Allow sub-minimum parcels to continue to be joined, but prohibit subdivision below the minimum size. (Again, 256 or 512 seems reasonable.) This would be technically easy to implement, simply gray out the subdivide button if the selected land is less than the minimum - that has to be a trivial fix. Further, when Governor Linden comes into possession of sub-minimum sized parcels, make them available for sale only to owners of surrounding lots, so that over time properties can be reassembled. It is a good compromise. Over time, much of the problem will heal itself without infringing significantly on anybody's rights. And current owner's of grandfathered parcels might even see the fair market value of those parcels increase over time as they become rare antiques.