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allric mabellon added a comment - 01/Jul/09 07:04 PM
How idiotic is that? How the heck is it that easy to get someone banned? Especially when people who deserve it can skate by so easy without any consequences.
Maybe this should lead to another jira on changing the way object chat is displayed, the different text color doesn't carry over when pasted into an AR, and noobs often don't know the difference, i personally always wear an object on my HUD that tells you the true owner of any object chat.
This is a tactic that has been used by griefers for quite some time now, and they do it because it works. The G-team needs to be more diligent in researching these complaints or should be prohibited from banning from SL until they investigate the claim. It appears that someone needs to police the police here.
This issue is false. Perhaps some investigation should be made as to whether the other names were also banned. I've been both the subject and the complainant in abuse reports, and I can tell you there is in fact an investigative process.
A good example is the case of the reporter herself. Many people suspect that she is underage yet continues to be active on mature sims, and marks her own land as mature. People have filed ARs based upon this, yet the reporter is still here. That must mean the G-team either investigated the allegations and found them false, or they have yet to prove them, and they did not take precipitous action. The reporter and her fans should really be doing something about their own griefing product, instead of wasting people's time with fantasies about "product griefing." Forrest, whether you like or dislike the person who reported this jira or not, it does make a valid point. It does make me question your (Forrest's) motivation for being against jira could possibly be. I don't know if this is one of your products or not, frankly I don't care, but the points made here are valid. If you don't agree, then so be it. I on the other hand feel it is worthy and it's about time something changes with the current system. While I'm familiar with Darling Brody's products and do own some of them, doesn't change my opinion on griefers, spammers, and any issue that effect my SL business or any other member of the community at large. Some of us have such powerful products for protection against the griefer faction, but by no means by having those types of products, do I condone griefing whatsoever.
I've seen numerous people get banned, false DMCA's filed on them, and other things happen over the years. Good people suffer because griefers know the current weaknesses of the way AR's/DMCA's work. Something needs to be done about it. I know of many repeat offenders getting to keep coming back over and over again, then a person gets falsely accused and get permabanned. If a company is going to handle this many users, then they need to be more responsible and better equipped to handle the numerous AR's & DMCA's that come in daily. There does need to be proper investigation. I know LL has the means to look at a situations much more thoroughly then they do with the current system. Anyone that files false AR's or DMCA's should be dealt with severely. I do hope when the team looks at this jira, they include the handling of DMCA's also. Falsified they can be used as a way to grief too. This is not a bug for the jira,
Contact customer service for more information. It's a bug to me. It's something in the system that is broken... seriously broken and needs to be addressed.
I was one of the first people to go through the Age Verification process when it was opened because I KNEW people like you, Forrest Streeter, would be the very first people to try and falsely reporting me for being under age.
To correct the lies posted by Forrest Streeter:- All the private regions I own are set PG. The secondlife Groups I run have a strict PG languare requirment. My products contain no adult content at all (blood, guts, genitals, etc). Event hte Sex bed I put on sale has a PG rating. Cudos to Forrest Streeter for attempting to get me banned using a JIRA that he knows I have asked the Gteam to look at. ********************************************** @ allric mabellon We cant alter the format of the text as that would break objects that are shouting communications on channels. But we could have the viewer's copy and paste function ADD the word "OBJECT" when someone copies object text and pastes to an abuse report. By only adding the word OBJECT at the time of PASTE when the origen of the copy was the local chat window we can avoid interfearing with any scripted interface. Here is a PERFECT example of someone who contacted me years ago about a similar type of spammer, as you can see from the text the people this person was with reported me. I only escaped that one because I was in another region and AFK. Since 2007 the the spammer scripts have improved and now include sensors to only pick the names of people who are in the area, as those people are the ones likly to be successfully reported banned.
I was of course AFK when the above quoted IM's were sent 2 years ago. By the time I returned to my keyboard Forrest Streeter was convinced I was evil and he has never changed his mind about that, as evedence by his post here. So we can clearly see the long term issues caused when objects impersonate people, even if the GTeam doesn't accedently ban an innocent person. Forrest Streeter, for the last time! I did not spam you. I am over 20 years old. I do not make griefer toys. I have never done anything to you. (Edit: Besides embrase you with your own words here today. ) Darling Brody I agree with Darling.
And we have another problem in sandboxes, too: Griefers give unexperienced users a gift, maybe a nice looking car or something else. Once the unexperienced user rezzes this object, the "car" starts to rez a region attack (maybe multiplying physical prims. llDialog crasher or something similar). But the owner of the "region attack" is the naive unexperienced user. Before I write abuse reports, I first try to talk to the people and ask them to stop the griefing attack. In lot of cases I understood that those "owners" of the running region attack are victims, too, because they rezzed an object that was a "gift" by the actual griefer. But in case of abuse reports, they, the unexperienced users, get banned. The investigation of the G-Team is sometimes not deep enough. We know that in the asset database there is always a hidden field for "last owner" (you can see that last owner by 3rd party viewers like Gemini, and the Lindens can see it as well). It would be nice to improve the quality of investigation depth of the G-Team, as they are an important part of the service of Second Life. Well ive always said that the Lindens think theyre a law unto themselves...this is just another fine example of them persecuting the innocent without proper vindication...now ill probably get banned for speaking my mind!
No, Spooky, you won't get banned by speaking here freely, that is not the spirit of Second Life.
But it's just important to stress that we need a strong and fair G-Team which treats everybody equally and has enough man-power to investigate deeply and even-handed every case of abuse reports. Sometimes we have the impression that abuse reports are not processed at all, maybe they have small number of staff on that time of day. Sometimes abuse reports are not investigated sensitivly and thoroughly enough, so the wrong, innocent person gets banned. And as I mentioned before, the G-Team is too important for the best SL experience to allow the trust in the G-Team to be undermined. This does not belong in Pjira, please contact support. Editing post for language. I understand that is was part of the spam sent but you know that such language is not allowed in Pjira as this is also used by the teen grid.
Alexa Linden,
Appologies, but the full text was required so that GTeam members can match it against logs for the region. Editing the text in any way would prevent an exact match, making their job harder, and we do not want to make their job harder, that is how mistakes are made. I totaly disagree with you about the JIRA not being the place to address this issue because :-
On point (2) I will re-open this jira Once Only. Should you Alexa chose to close it again I will not reopen it again. Darling Brody You could have just offered any Linden the text in-world that wanted it, instead of posting it in a public place.
I agree with Alexa, this is best handled by talking to support or discussing on forums. And you honestly believe the the G-Team members are such noobs that they would fall for one of the oldest griefer tricks in SL, objects masquerading as avatars? Come on, get real. @Simon Plasma
Not everyone has the same level of experience. However everyone is human and they can make mistakes. The ban against those people has been lifted. Clearly there was a mistake made this time. LL have shown that they care and have fixed it. So i have now altered this jira to reflect the cause of the mistake which is a technological one. that being point (2) of my last post. It has already been mentioned by other people and is worth looking into. Darling Brody @Simon:
Seeing as my ban has been lifted, it does seem that someone did fall for one of the oldest griefing tricks in the book. 
The technical issue behind this issue does need to be addressed, either in this JIRA or elsewhere. I would like to see a little object icon placed before the object's name so it is clearly an object, and that icon will translate to [OBJECT] when copied into the system clipboard. Keeping the color will help the older users recognize it. Doubtful, I am glad they ban first and investigate later, allowing griefers to roam free while an AR is being investigated could be far worse.
Ohh. I like the icon idea.
We could expand that to a HEAD icon for an avatar, and perhaps a different kind of object icon for IM vs llSay vs OwnerSay. They each do have a different colour, but I have noticed some people still have had trouble knowing the difference between the private OwnerSay / IM from the public llSay. Adding an icon to them all would be a good idea. Especialy if a tools tip poped out when you hover over them. somthing like 'Owner Say can only be heard by you' and 'IMs are oly head by you' VS 'Object chat can be head by all within 20 meters'. @Simon Plasma. How do your comments help find a solution for this problem? Also, what happened to innocent until proven guilty? Dont answer that, it was a retorical question. Darling Brody One could probably even expand the SL plaintext chatlog into an XML chatlog, which would make it even easier to differentiate between users and add in useful metadata. When transformed with XSL (or whatever it is, I forget), you can create a rich-text chatlog with hidden metadata.
<chatlog> <said type="agent|object" uuid="UUID HERE" name="Something" [other data]>Chat blah blah blah</said> <shouted type="agent|object" uuid="UUID HERE" name="Something" [other data]>Chat blah blah blah</shouted> <ownersay type="agent|object" uuid="UUID HERE" name="Something" [other data]>Chat blah blah blah</ownersay> <im type="agent|object" uuid="UUID HERE" name="Something" [other data]>Chat blah blah blah</im> </chatlog> @Darling - I do not believe a solution is needed for the original issue reported here, the current G-Team response is OK in my opinion. And in RL (at least in the US) when someone is accused and arrested for something they are put in jail and remain there (unless they make bail) until their court case is resolved even though they are innocent until proven guilty.
P.S. You do realize that by hijacking a closed issue that no one can vote on your new feature request, which I personally think is a rather good idea. The issue is not hijacked. A cause for the original issue has been identified and the jira has been refined into somthing program related that can prevent the original issue happening again.
Adding a method to identiy the location chat is coming from is a good thing. I can't think f any reason why anyone would want to keep the location text comes from vague unless they were exploiting the weakness. "Contact support" is the wrong advice, because we don't have a certain problem for an individual person here, but a general pattern.
The services of the G-Team are a very important part of the general service of SL, so the PJira ist the best place to ask for improvements in this service. I think this thread is not meant to criticize anybody, but it's a constructive feedback for the SL staff how to mayby improve some aspects of service. Now the offending words are deleted by moderation, we can coninue to debate. Thank you for your attention I am not allowed to vote on this for some reason, but do wish to vote.
This incident has show a weakness in the reporting system that can, and in this case has, resulted in the suspension of innocent parties. Those nay sayers are no doubt people who never venture from their home sims, and therefore are unlikely to get caught out in such a way. Perhaps this needs to be resubmitted in its amended form so that us "johnny-come-lateley's" can vote for it? Closing this jira because people are having issues with voting and commenting that appear to be related to it having been closed previously.
Those people who contributed usefull information about how to solve the confusion about the origen of chat should repost thie info. Those people who just turned up here to call people griefers, thanks for your time, you can leave now. New JIRA can be found here. |
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New Feature
Closed
Normal
Copy / Pasting text from chat log to Abuse Report loses colour / origen information (avatar/object as source)
