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Key: MISC-227
Type: New Feature New Feature
Status: Open Open
Priority: Normal Normal
Assignee: Unassigned
Reporter: Saijanai Kuhn
Votes: 11
Watchers: 4
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4. Second Life Misc Issues - MISC

Implement optional prim-joint hierachy

Created: 22/May/07 05:27 PM   Updated: 02/Feb/09 02:44 PM
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Component/s: None
Affects Version/s: None
Fix Version/s: None

Environment: prim creation/modi
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 Description  « Hide
I'd like to suggest an option to create prims with hierarchical linking or joints along the lines suggested here:

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Prim_and_Object_Hierarchy

This would facilitate the creation of robots and other mechanical devices with realistic movement/actions using relatively limited scripting, and would possibly allow for offloading much/most of this behavior to the client, if the physics interaction flag was left unchecked. A hybrid object where a physics object was set as root, could allow for collision checking of the physical root object and its normal children, while movements of the joint hierarchy could still be handled on the client side as non-physics prims.

See the URL for more discussion:

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Prim_and_Object_Hierarchy



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Simon Nolan added a comment - 22/May/07 08:59 PM
Actually, we used to have joints in SL build tools, many moons ago. The ability to build with them was removed because of problems with the physics simulation. I've got Beatfox Xevious' Zephyr Chimes v1.0, which used joints and were amazingly realistic. Sadly rezzing them causes great strangeness for my viewer, including crashes. I think I crashed a sim once when I rezzed them.

You can actually see some old help text about joints here: http://secondlife.com/app/help/menus/toolsmenu.php . More historical info can be seen at the SL History wiki at http://slhistory.org/index.php/Joint .

I'd like to see joints come back too, but I doubt it will happen before a major overhaul of the Havok physics engine.


Saijanai Kuhn added a comment - 22/May/07 11:06 PM
Darn. And people say that implementing matrix/array code in LSL won't happen before mono which won't happen for what, a year or 4?

There's going to be a mass exodus to something else once something else exists, I think...


Vex Streeter added a comment - 06/Feb/08 10:11 AM
Using this to vote for the reintroduction of joints - I'd like to see a generalized object hierarchy system (maybe like the wiki discussion), though there are issues not discussed there. Now the Havok4 is near, and mono is waiting in the wings on the beta grid, perhaps it is time to start agitating on this topic.

TigroSpottystripes Katsu added a comment - 26/Feb/08 12:31 AM - edited
with the performance increase brought by mono, how laggy would it be to have the individual group of childprims have the movement controled by lsl? (like some animated linksets that already exist out there for robots and other stuff, that currently don't manage to move all the prims at the exact same time, often causing visible breaking while moving)

Aimee Trescothick added a comment - 11/Apr/08 09:33 PM
"Work on reimplementing joints is not likely to occur until after the main grid has been fully upgraded to the new Havok 4 engine." - http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Joint

Havok 4 is out, mono is in beta ... now(ish) would be a good time to review this.


Saijanai Kuhn added a comment - 12/Apr/08 02:42 AM
Unfortunately, right now, Linden Lab is in debug mode. The word from on high is No New Capabilities unless they are projects already started when the debug mode went into effect. My own belief is that for the next few months, LL needs to focus on something even more fundamental than bug-fixes: re-factorization of the server and viewer. While there's plenty of minor and even major re-factorization projects going on server-side, I don't see it being the priority for the viewer, which "makes me a sad Panda" to quote someone in SLDEV.

Aimee Trescothick added a comment - 12/Apr/08 05:33 AM
Oh absolutely, that's what the (ish) was about really, I was referring more to just keeping the idea bouncing around than getting it implemented right now, I wasn't very clear in my meaning.

Iexo Bethune added a comment - 02/Feb/09 02:43 PM
H4 seems reasonably stabile now, and alot of big issues are being addressed in upcoming viewers. I think time has come to assign Joints a place in the development schedule. They've been long overdue. Havok 4 can handle them. We builders can use them. It's been done before, and the Lindens have experience with them. It can't be too difficult to make them work now, I think it's time to make this happen.