Everyone warn us to beware of companies like Linden if they deal with their customers like that after you purchased.

I can't afford a full sim, and I don't want to try. So for the next year, any addition to my sim plans are out the window. LL is making a bad decision, it's only going to lose them potential money in the time they need it most, in a time when everyone is looking for cheap entertainment, these OS provide it. Heck I'd even suggest having more open sims in smaller dividents.

I will not pay 500$ for the same as I'd be getting for a full prim sim, not including set up fees... I am so upset over this and you will not be getting any more sim purchases from myself or my partner for awhile to come. This is not the way to do business. People are looking for cheap entertainment, and this OS is what is provided. Give us a better alternative or face to lose a lot of money.

If you offer something to customers, there should be information going INTO it that states how much you can sell before you reach max usage. If you have 100 that can be serviced fully without bad impact, and you sell 300 - you know that won't work well. you shouldn't do it and then say OOoops and know that you will likely keep 1/3 of the 2/3 extra if you raise prices so you will be ahead money wise.

I am not saying that IS what happened, that is what I am saying it certainly feels like. I only rent an OS but I will likely be getting rid of it. It isn't cost effective at the new prices to me. Sad really because i really like my landlord who was a fair business person and I know people like THAT are the ones getting the shaft in this. It was nice to non-urbanize some of SL. Hope this gets settled more amicably.

[ Show » ] Fredy Kyong - 28/Oct/08 10:14 AM - edited Well, I will give my OS sims back then and log off for good. This is to much, you got my vote! Everyone warn us to beware of companies like Linden if they deal with their customers like that after you purchased.

i agree with this and will do the same .... and i vote

Please consider this vote for this issue as a vote for implementing other alternatives for throttling use rather than increasing costs. Lower agent limits, lower prims, definitive scripting allowances, etc.

Well, face it! Why people move to OS? Because full prim sims are still to expensive. Linden can offer just two sim types, how´s about that?

1. Full prim sims, full prims, full price
2. Half prim sims, half prims, half price

Overloading OS sims are history then!

But if a company does earn to less, what does this company do? Raise the prices of their products, very easy.
But if they might lose 70% of their business, what will they do? Learn math and kick someones butt.

I would like Linden would be more a democracy instead a dictatorship. Linden should pay attention to their customers BEFORE they announce news like that or decide on it!

Let´s use the Login screen of the viewer and ask your customers what they think about. I know you can do this, LL

Gods I'm so disgusted right now.

This is probably just the shake-down before they raise all the other rates.

It's so sad that Linden doesn't seem to care how much many people with small budgets would like to invest in SL. Yes, there are technical issues too often and basics are fixed and broken over and over. Open spaces, however, increased the number of tier-paying clients and offered so many of us a home that meant a lot to us. How many people will buy regular land after this? It may be priced beyond your means in a month or few, with no notice after you put in so much time and effort. Is any mega-company promising to replace all of this at a better income for Linden? Really?

However if this is not your rationale and it is for the follwoing reason:

"Lastly we will begin to proactively discuss overloaded Openspaces with their owners. This is important because as with abuse of region resources, a heavily overloaded Openspace can adversely affect other Openspaces sharing the same machine which is clearly unfair to residents who are using them responsibly. We have listened to your feedback on this, and agree that we need to make changes to better support our Openspace users by actively working to keep the performance levels as high as possible. We will also provide some detailed guidance about what 'overuse' looks like and how to prevent it."

IF you have an abuse situation, then truly you need to focus on those users who have abused your openspace useage policy.
Not increase your prices and punish the entire population, most of whom in all probability use open spaces sensibly.

How should anyone get a planning to the future if LL goes and destructs any financial planing? Shal i really trust such business men handling their job like a self complacent monarch?

Why are SIMowner using their SIM correctly punished with 66% more tier ?

Sorry, Linden, this is BS bingo.

Limit the maximum nuber of avatars on an os SIM, get some technical parameters to stop abuse...

I have the firm believe the "abuse of os sims" is simply a faked fairy tale to get lot more money out of a successfull part of SL, because of refinancing problems resulting from the actual crisis.

llSay "We change policy now and fees price up to 65% in 2 month" is like an abuse and thief.

http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1777

It is for non profit

A much better solution would be to use the information on hand at LL and the server logs and actual data to pursue those people who are deliberately overusing the openspace sims by using them for lagged out commercial space, clubs, sex islands, etc.

Those of us who have them for quiet enjoyment should not have to suffer because some people tried to work the system. If LL tries to implement this across the board instead of doing the correct thing and going after those who are abusing the resources, LEGITIMATELY, this will only end badly.

My openspace has two residences, lots of trees, a waterfall, and more than 50% open water. There are rarely more than 3 people on the OS at one time, and USUALLY there are 0 people on it since it is exclusively used as a private residence.

"Punishing" someone for taking advantage of a good value when it was presented is ludicrous. Go after the bad apples, not the rest of us.

Also, in my opinion lowering the prim count or the equivalent script capacity of 1/4 of a standard sim is also an unacceptable solution, unless I can receive a refund for the setup fee that I paid to set up my openspace based on certain guidelines that were confirmed by Linden Lab.

But now they drop this bomb that well overrules all the positive things i have returned to.

LL should also take a good talk with their legal department since this is as Skidz Tweak state: "Bait and switch" and that is indeed ILLEGAL!

U got my vote!

If this was done, and someone tried to put more onto an OpenSpace sim than their fair share, they'd get enormous lag (and their neighbors would see little or no impact). And then people would learn just what they can and can't do, rather than having to just sort of guess based on the ambiguous hints and changing prim limits that we have now. This would also help with the fact that OpenSpaces sims are turning out to require more than half of a full sim, rather than the one-quarter that was expected: use OS or hypervisor policies to limit them to one-quarter, and people will then be unable to get more resources than you can provide for what they're paying.

If this has been tried or considered and failed, it would be very interesting to hear about it. It would reassure us that this isn't just a hasty decision, or driven by some unstated purpose.

Judy.

So it's not "closed" dude. Let LL fight their own battles. If they don't like this here, they can handle it themselves, yeah?

@Harleen: I have a question: how is increasing prices by $50 a month going to speed up their servers?

It might make a bunch of sims shut down. But will it reduce concurrency on Second Life?

You want alternatives and suggestions? How about they clamp down on the clubs and those using software to abuse Open Space Sim performance.

I gotta question them presenting that increasing sim prices is going to improve the performance of Second Life overall. Only thing I can see is it possibly improving Linden Lab profits. Or if people get pissed off enough, maybe not.

If they want Open Space Sims to perform better, I'd suggest two things: a cap on sim avatar concurrency (say, 20 people) and reducing the number of sims they're stacking on a server from 16 to half that. But increasing sim costs and ripping customers who invested and trusted in the company? NOT good company policy decisions. Just smells of secret agenda, know what I mean?

What does increasing price have to do with overall grid performance? LOL.

Create a new class of sims with 1/2 the resources of a normal region (7500 prims, two per server) for a bit more than 1/2 the price of a full region.

This generates more cash for Linden Lab, creates affordable sims that can handle the sort of load OpenSpace regions get now, and provides a much more interesting resource for land lords, estate owners, etc.

"Educator discount is no longer available for Openspaces."
Way to go to attract nonprofits to SL. I wonder how many schools ect are gonna dump their meticulously-crafted sims now that the price has almost doubled.

"No Owner switching for Openspaces unless it's a full transfer of Payor."
Well, so much for renting. Byebye, potential content.

"Class 4 Openspaces will be upgraded to class 5 in January."
This is whats known as a 'carrot'. "Well yes, we did drastically raise your rates" says LL, "But look, we also upgraded you to a class 5!" Thats like your RL landlord telling you he's doubling your rent, but hey, the toilet flushes now!

I could go on, but it's fairly obvious just whats happening here. The cash cow is lactating less, so the cost of milk goes up. Which is understandable, but the bait-and-switch is so blatantly obvious its painful. And keep in mind, after the 1st when half the open space owners ditch their investment, those sims will not go away! LL will simply sell the space to another sucker. After all, they already have servers set up to handle those sims. Its a win/win for them, so don't expect these cries of outrage to be heeded. Its all about the bottom line.

I am Just thankful that who I got my last two sims from is an upstanding person and is figureing ways to work with us. I may have lost my club that was finally beginning to do well but I kept something more important a friend I'd made.......Watch out LL may start trying to take those next.

I just about had a company ready to move into Second Life when this announcement came out - there goes three months' efforts to no avail - the price increase killed the financials for the time being AND such a price increase has them in a panic over future liabilities. METAVERSE and THERE are back on the table after all my efforts to move them to Second Life - Way To Go, Linden Lab!!! A market leading firm, in the millions, just dropped SL from consideration with this price increase. The business plan was for 15-20 full sims within 2 years, with the initial OS sim to be administrative in nature after the pilot.

First of all, the reasoning behind it- "abuse" of openspaces by using more resources- makes no sense. The history of SL has been users taking the tools of SL and extracting every bit of use, value, and creativity from it as possible. This has been done with ever single tool in SL. If we take LL at face value, it means that they fundamentally do not understand SL. They SHOULD have seen the varied uses of openspaces when they implemented the price reductions, allowing single buying, and upped the prim count. There was intense discussion about this policy when it first came out, and near-unanimous agreement that the new openspaces would be used to their maximum, as that is a fundamental part of creative endeavor in SL.

Given LL's infamous lack of understanding of its customers, the above scenario seems plausible- except for one thing. Instead of the ridiculous new changes, LL could have simply developed and implemented better resource management and limiting tools for openspaces. Reducing avatar limits on openspaces, or limiting the number of scripts that could be run come into mind. This is the obvious solution to this "problem," yet it wasn't even discussed.

This leads me and many others to believe that the current policy's rationalization is an out right lie. The most obvious reason is that Openspaces are "too successful" as a product; people have flocked to them and away from mainland because they wonderfully suit user's needs in price vs. land size and prim use, and avoids the problems with ugly builds on mainland and renderlag from having adjacent sims all around a sim. The result is a devaluation of mainland; many parcels can be found for less than L$3 per meter- the equivalent of $600 for a full sim.

Improving the mainland to make it competitive with openspaces was, and is, a good idea. However, now it seems that LL's tactic is to actually FORCE users out of openspaces by jacking up their prices by a ridiculous amount. This is attempted market manipulation by artificial means, by severely devaluing one product instead of improving others, or creating new ones.

Showstopper - ONLY the most severe, confirmed issues which demand immediate attention from Linden Lab. For example, inability for many Residents to login. IMPORTANT: Abusing this setting will cause revocation of Issue Tracker access. If in doubt, mark "Critical" instead.

I would say that this demands attention from Linden Labs but especially since they already have given the tools to do so and since this is not a bug such as nobody being able to logon which is what LL has repeatedly affirmed (I don't have them right now but I can probably find links for that if asked to back it up) is that it's only to be used for such huge things as nobody can logon or everyone's suddenly disconnecting for no reason and such.

I SOOOOOO AGREE!!!!!!! This is a total disgrace........ It will ruin a lot of businesses, communities and with so many feeling the pinch with economics the way that they are ... now LL's want more of our money????

The number of people and communities that this will effect and SL will no longer be SL if this price inrease goes ahead.

How very disappointing. I hope that reason and integrity will prevail and this decision will be reversed.

The US economy is already in the toilet and LL hikes prices to a point where purchasing a sim or open sim is made an unobtainable goal. Makes a whole lot of sense doesn't it. NOT!! Once again LL is shooting themselves in the foot and will end up losing more business than gaining. I'm not so sure I want to stick around and watch an already sinking ship go under.

Shouldn't LL change their hostile attitude towards the sim owners who like to provide fun and entertainment for others and make SL vivid.... in other words: who in the end SUPPORT SL making it successful (!!!) and try to make it a place worth to log in, LL will face a mass shut down of sims. Most (open space) sim owners i know already told me they won't pay more because they CAN'T!! I also know people who logged off and won't come back, because they are fed up of the existing business, which will horribly increase to raise funds for the sim fee. I politely plead LL for thinking the matter over, to keep SL a place all can enjoy and will live on.

To make it short: YOU GOT MY VOTE! .... i only hope it will help

The way you run Second Life would be the best way to run it .... if your aim was to make it die.

I feel that you don't like your baby, which is a shame because it's a nice baby. I wonder why you
guys get up every morning to go to work, if you don't like your job. SL will eventually have to shut
down because you guys killed it by note taking care of it.

Someday, a real competitor to SL will raise, and that day, you, Lindens, will be the LOSERS.

I vote against that price raise, and i wish i could vote against human stupidity.

LL has completely lost any shred of credibility or worthiness of respect. Actually happened slowly over the course of the last year but this seals it.

I have no faith. I have no respect. I have no admiration for all the good that has been done. I have contempt for the obvious horrid business skills of this company. What a shame to watch it all just get flushed down the crapper.

This is little more than a sham and an excuse for more money. I just want my home for the decent price it was at.

I'll vote for this although at this point I have little faith in LL's interest in their users' opinions.

I like how they state that these price increases and changes are being done in response to resident requests... Please prove those statements rather than just assuming that we accept them at face value.

My attorney is reviewing documentation re: possible bait and switch. Will advise.

It will most likely result in fewer people using second life due to not being able to afford it at all... very sad news.

SL has grown thanks to the users that create content, due to nonprofit organizations and creative people who find in SL a way to vent their creativity.

You have my vote.

There are other avenues to per sue prior to a drastic price increase such as this. Why are the Lindens so diminished in the upper management decision making?

This is a poor time for such a change with so many facing financial difficulties. Many businesses and individuals rely on open spaces currently due to inability to purchase the more expensive mainland or islands. This increase will cause Linden Labs a huge loss of business and the people responsible should seriously re-evaluate this situation.

I encourage others to vote on this issue if they feel the same and I thank the Lindens for their time and understanding as to why this upsets myself and others.

Thank you.
PleaseDonot Alter

My sim is in the United Sailing SIms, about 140 sims, many of which are open space. The people who pay for these sims make no money from them - they are open navigable water for general public use. Some of these sims are 100% open water, many have islands on them, but even then the majority of the sim is water.

So, how many of these sims will be open once the price increase goes into effect? My guess.... None.

This will of course help to reduce network traffic, since there will be less people logging on. It also means that less people will be spending money.

SL and land ownership is a luxury - not a necessity. In the current economic climate, I am amazed that anyone could actually suggest a massive price increase on a product such as this and still have a job.

A much smarter solution would have been to simply eliminate the abusive misuse, limit avatars in these sims, and leave the rest of us alone and let us keep sending our payments.

This will effect everybody. For example, since I do not know if my area will still exist in 2 months, I see no point in spending any more money on it. Since I don't know what the near future of SL is going to look like, I don't see the point of buying anything for my avatar. I may not get to use it.

So, if people think that since they don't own open space, this won't effect them - they are wrong.

Open space today..... tomorrow? Hmm... well let's see. If the OSS people bail, cash flow dwindles. Now, who's left to pick up the slack?

LL - You really need to rethink and fix this, before it's too late.

It is not simply about the future of open spaces and it's 'legitimate use' (which i think is not supported by this issue)
It is not about paying more cash for a product (as we can always decide SL is another luxury good we can abandon payments for)
It is not about me being angry to our 'evil landlords' who raised our rents by 66% (which would be completely legit as protest in RL)

It is because this measure is one that does no good to the reputation of Linden Labs and their product. There are those who may argue similar things had happened in the past and the grid survived. Those people will also have to consider many customers have left because of these events. In the long run business and product reputation are necessary to keep Second Life up as a product name. You will simply have to be doing better than this.

That'll help pay for the servers, I'm sure.

At least this time we actually had prior notice.

Did anyone actually ever read what they are supposed to be for? You abuse a system, you should expect reaction.

Penalising the very people who serv SL and its many residents.

We use land to create entertainment for LL, so they have more people to join in and visit.

To have land we also pay membership to have this privilege, and still they continue to fleece us, using what is an already damaging outcome to all of us in RL.

To make things fair and to perhaps validate the financial problems LL may "claim to suffer "? , how about all residents have to pay membership to be in SL, instead of roaming free.
That way all would be fair for everyone.

We all have rights, and LL is abusing them. LL should see this , that we as land owners provide for SL people.

I ask that all should pay membership to be in SL, so we as land owners and as entertainment providers for SL community , It is us who continue to make SL what it is, for without us, they would not have a world to promote and continue in business.

Sl help us to help you...introduce a fair sytem , where all must contribute to SL, by via some membership payment. We all pay it as land owners, so they must contribute something too.

When LL increased the prim allowance on Open Space Sims, I was confused at first. Then, I naturally assumed they had made some kind of improvements, something technical, that I wouldn't understand. But... I'll say one thing. I certainly understand an unrealistic price increase.

We've had our OS sim a little over a week. We haven't even opened it to the public yet. We had such plans... Having the island available to the public for their enjoyment... Now, who knows? Our sim is a part of the United Sailing Sims.. 140 in all. When I look out the window next year, will I see open water, boats sailing along peacefully, people out and about meeting other people? Somehow, I don't think so. I think that one by one all of these lovely sims will simply disappear...

When people invest their hard earned cash in something like this, and then are faced with such an unrealistic tier increase, I think that many will reconsider being in SL. That should help a lot, right? Less people on the grid = less problems. Except for financially of course. But that will be LL's problem now, won't it?

You most certainly have my vote.

Did anyone actually ever read what they are supposed to be for? You abuse a system, you should expect reaction."

... Um. Did YOU read it?

They do not ADVISE more serious use. And they will not respond to performance issues.

"This is what the limits are, if you try to go over them you really have no right to complain" is what that says.

I have a home on an Openspace that is more than half open water. Traffic is limited to 2-3 avatars a week. 99% of the time I am the only person on it, in my home. Scripts are kept very very low, prims are under the limit. I do not consider this outside the realm of "light use."

Since "light use" guidelines were pretty much left to us to figure out except for the primmage – I agree that people who are abusing this (people putting in commercial installations, malls, clubs, sex islands, etc.) and maxing out the scripts and causing - surprise - PERFORMANCE PROBLEMS - for other people... they are the ones who should be handled, and they should be restricted on what they're doing.

For the rest of us who are operating well under 1ms for scripts and far under 3750 prims so we can have a quiet private home with open water to use for boating or swimming LIKE "OPENSPACES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE USED FOR", this is a huge slap in the face.

I'm not a rulebreaker, and I would have to guess that 95% of us aren't.

This is not a democracy, and we shouldn't be VOTING on this, really. A smart company will do surveys of price points to see the cost/benefit of an increase like this.

Those that don't want to pay can always go and play with a sim on opengrid somewhere.

Complaining about how the bad economy is a reason to not increase prices is a bit selfish - I mean the US dollar has taken a dive, but LL needs to pay for everything in US dollars themselves (pay for servers, pay their staff, etc.)

Actually, considering inflation, opensim tiers are probably going to be about the same price that they were two years ago AND LL is upgrading the openspace sims from Class 4 to class 5.

Of course, I don't want to pay more, but talk of driving non-profits and educators out of business is silly. Thay can live off of donations and tax money, but this doesn't mean that LL needs to be an unwitting donor to any particualr cause by giving discounted products to them.

And in reality the "excessive load" they talk about is caused not by the way ppl use the sim but by BAD DESIGN. SL has an appaulingly inefficient architecture that needs vast cpu/memory/network resources to do even the simplest of operations. If they actually architected the system decently they could easily support 10x the load and significantly lower costs for all. And yes i am talking from experience of similar designs.

Basically we are being asked to subsidize a crap design that doesnt scale.

I think it's time for a revolution. SL needs proper management for a change, people who know how to make SL a better place and actually WANT to make that happen. People who've been here from the start (or close to it), and have seen every up and down in SL's history, and can learn from the mistakes and failures of the past. This is the only way SecondLife can survive.

Vive la Revolucion!

What's next? Charging Fees to have a Business? Charging for Inventory? Charging for TP's? Charging to go to "certain nice areas" of the Grid?

Where's Google to buy those arses and spank them?

On which planet? For anyone in Europe, SL is becoming more expensive by the day because of the strength of the US$.

"The market will decide if they continue to get business. "

We ARE the market And we are expressing ourselves prior to taking the inevitable action - ie abandoning sims in massive numbers and witholding additional business. By all means make the abusers pay more ... but it is very wrong to punish those who used open space sims in the way they were designed to be use.

Suggested Solution = eat your own mistakes, buy more servers and fix SL architecture.

1) Offer Free Converssion to Full Sims from 4 Open Sims

2) Offer a refund for those that have 3 or less Open Sims

3) Offer Open sims with less functionality for same Cost

4) Offer Open Sims With better functionality at New Cost so they are worth the New cost
a) allow them more resources I.E. if you charging 67% more then give them 67% more.
b) put less on each CPU

5) take Open Sims off the Market completely.

6) Use a Meter to track Use and Misuse of open Sims on New Client you are Developing.

Post to the Community what the Correct usage is and How to achieve this.
1) How many scripts one can use
2) how many textures
3) examples of Loads that are with-in reason. I.E. 250 scripts 250 Textures and 25 Avatars.

I have Started a Group with Many estate Owners to come up with solutions to this issue
Please IM me for a Invite to the Group Thanks!!

Unfortunately, as it seems in real life, if the government (being the Lindens) feels it is in THEIR best interest to increase fees, no amount of voting will stem that. However....for those that believe one vote will make a difference....you have mine.

1. So "good" users like myself are being taxed to support the bad users. Er what?
2. Where are my extra prims to make up for the 66% price hike?
3. Why not penalize the bad users my caps or suchlike? Like broadband suppliers do.

Clearly linden more interested in bait and switch revenue increases. Yet another case of them treating their customers like scum.

<.<

How soon before LL says, oh look, we lost revenue, so let's go take it out of the hides of the remaining residents & business owners? How long
before SL goes the way of the .coms?

Then let's also talk about the numerous US Military Deployed families who were enjoying having an affordable option where deployed spouses
could share family time with their at home families. The OS was their salvation, and now that will be yanked out from under them as more & more
get abandoned back to LL and these families are left homeless without an affordable alternative. Yea for "support our troops", thanks tons LL for nothing.

You have my vote against this travesty.

I bought an open sim, purely to hangout, without the ugliness of all the crap people build on mainland.
I have used less than half of my 3750 prims, my script times are very low and my traffic is approx 3 - 4 friends visit each day.
I wanted a nice large area to hang out with a few of my friends, I would never consider it to be anything other than 'light' use.

My response will be to abandon my open sim just before the prices rise, I refuse to pay $50 more.

As a UK resident, I already got alot less $USD for my £GBP this year, add to this a further $50USD increase (plus VAT). Nah it's crap value for money, my money would be best spent on something else.

I won't be buying any mainland, I will be homeless.
I won't renew my annual premium membership when it expires.
I won't create anything in SL.
I won't buy anything in SL
I won't buy any $L.
I will look towards a move into another virtual world, I hear people mention 'Open Sim' hmmm maybe it's time to have a look there.

LL will ultimately lose out, the people are voting here now, but ultimately we'll be closing our wallets and tightening our purse strings, giving LL nothing.

SL is a luxury for me, During this time of global recession, I did set aside $75 for the maintenance of my OS home. A rise to $125 is just not possible for me to swallow during this economic climate....LL you definitely won't be gaining an extra $50 a month from me, however, you WILL definitely be losing $75 a month though.

You'll also lose my my next years premium membership and the year after that and the year after that and so on.

Except that they knew in mid april that the open sims were not playing well with Havok 4

They still kept selling them

And now they want to dig deeper financially ... and oh yeah they claim this produces a technical solution ...

Here's the rest of it ....

LL has lost all hope of having any respect or trust from me. My money is now tightly pocketed ... and I am clearly open to suggestions from other parties.

What I tell people is this: If LL is involved, they should only participate with the idea that LL will find a way to rip them off. And yes ... even the commercial entities have to notice it now. Well entities that don't have their own rip-off plans.

I'm off to move some of my eggs out of the SL basket.. And those eggs I was pushing toward the SL basket ... eh ... No way now!!

This will never Work Jack and M and whoever else was behind it

Its to late you already sold thosands of the open space islands Trying to rip off the peopel and scam us out of more money now will not work.

The worlds economy is crashing and you think people can aford to pay almost double monthly for the same exact thing ?

You wrong and you need to be fired,

I've been in SL since before you were a Linden jack and ever since you became one all you ever do is screw up.

Roleplay in SL is my main form of entertainment. Thank you, Linden Labs, for taking that away from me. Thank you for being aware of the hardships settling on the world. This enormous jump is not justified & is just a way of gouging your consumers. Maybe you should change your name to Exxon; they play the same game, neh?

Although I'm sure you must have considered this, I feel enjoined to point out... the fewer consumers buying lindens & stuff here, the less money your content creators & merchants make, is this not so? And the less they make, the less you will ultimately make. So in effect, you are robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Have fun. The logons are just about to drop precipitously as disposable income dries up anyway.

0.0

Eejits!

at $75 a month (worst case for LL)
they lose 22 500 USD a month
maybe not a lot for mighty LL, but still digging their own grave.

Nice little addup on openspace usage...
You know, with multiple core systems you can set affinity. this means you can select which core a process runs on.
how about setting one of those per core? im sure the octacore machines you use (at least, i think you do if you were smart) will have 4 cores left for the OS as there is stated there are 4 sims on 1 machine.

On top of that, theres nothing we can do about it, when we download a new version of the game we have to select we agree to these terms weather we do or not. If I dont agree I cant get into the game where I have property and renters. So I am forced to agree to terms I'm not ok with.

You cant tell me Lindens is hurting for money. They get 300.00 a month from me to do maintenence.. what exactly do they do?

I'm getting fed up with the way they are running things.

In the fantasy continent, you will lose at least 10 OS SIMs. The counterminious regions will be broken up into separate islands and all the work elf circle, the Isles of Wyrm, and The Faery Crossing and several affiliate SIMs put forth to create a viable loving unified community will have been torn asunder by your onerous and unethical business decision.

FInally, I have to say this plainly and clearly: you folks are incompent systems developers. You have no notion of quality of service in your day to day operations, you have no idea how to meet service level agreeements, and you are quick to blame your customers as abusers when in fact, as evidenced by the many critical JIRA bugs opened more more than a year, you show no ability to fix major functional and performance bugs. Now your response is to shed capacity and do it in the most egregious way possible. Shame on you!

1. They dont manage their cost well, ruined their finanacial balance and anything will go down the drain anyway !!
2. They will not get - they wil loose a lot of money !!

I resident at a community of 8 open sims and nobody will keep them longer! And this will happen all over SL. Linden is about to ruin their own business.

• No way. Here's my Vote! -

Additional, if rent/buy land will be too expensive as it will get, it makes no sense anymore to keep a premium account. I will cancel it. Additional my small business here would get expensive too. And no private land needs to be paid anymore. So i also will close down business too.

If this will happen, SL will not be attractive any longer to me.

1. Install fines for overusage after setting more specific usage limitations on OS sims. Graduate the fines for repeat offenders.
2. Create a different type of open space sim that is run 3-1 rather than 4-1 to allow for more use.

... so you would have something like:

• islands with 1/4 prim allowance (maybe a tad more) at the new tier price
• open space islands with 1/4 prim allowance at the old tier price

3. Mandatory upgrade of island types after a certain number of overusage fines ... you can even charge for the upgrade.

Can this be a proposal? It seems like something that can adequately punish those overloading your systems while allowing you to keep the current system in place for those using it properly.

The price of everything else is going down, oil, gas, milk, food... and while the rest of the world slashes prices LL jacks them up higher.

mine openspaces are going returned as soon this month ends happy mr Linden?

I am voting for this issue based on the moral and ethical implication of such an increase for educational and religious, non profit use. They should be given some discount, as long as the sim is NOT being utilized for anything else but promoting that organization.

I am sorry that your Land Sales division has misjudged how open sims would be utilized, but that is your fault Linden Labs. The current owners should not be the ones forced to be held accountable simply because they utilize the land you sold. I find it almost criminal that you are going to no longer honor the 75USD per month charge giving in the original contract under which you sold to your buyers for the open sims...due to mistakes that were made from your end Linden Labs.

At a minimum, existing openspace sim owners should be grandfathered in at the current rate of 75USD per month tier service charge, and changes thereafter should be made for new customers.

If people shouldn't use the prim-count on the OS, then why on earth set it that high in the first place?
Now you want people to pay more for less? You have got to be kidding me! This is possibly the best way of shutting down your own business.

1. I understand LL's reason for doing this, and if you guys stop to think about it, it makes sense. I'm a full sim private region owner, and last night started seriously thinking about buying an OS. Today I get told of this issue with OS's. The reason they're doing this is the same source of my dire fustration trying to sell land on my sim.... people constantly say "Why would I want to buy your 4096m2 for L$$ price, when I can get the same 937 prim but on a 1/4 sim" yadda yadda yadda. Its a nitemare, but because of those "people" (keeping it PG) it has made my life as a sim owner trying to sell land a living horror. So good on ya LL! Raise those prices across the board... the only people I've seen here on this topic are those who are actually using the OS for what it was meant for, and what I wanted it for.... light use

2. I also understand your guys' opinion.... I want an OS for just my 2 girlfriends and I to have a little shack on the corner of the sim and the rest of the OS just a big water play area.... some ramps, couple of jetski's etc and have fun, but now with the raise in prices, even if I buy now at $250 and get 2 months of only $75 per month, it'll still raise up to whatever per month and I cannot justify spending that kind of money for a sim that will generate no revenue to cover the tier costs to LL. I wish it weren't so, we've been talking about it a lot the last week and really want it now that our main sim is paying for itself (mostly) but.... its just too expensive for us, and we don't want to be punished because of those jerks who use heavy loads on the OS's and try to rip off the full private regions.

So, when you guys are in here complaining, try to look at it from both sides... LL is having some heavy loads on their servers meant for light use, so the only way to keep them from constantly crashing is to naturally provide more support (albiet sometimes crappy support) and keep them running, which means they need more money off of those... On the same note though, it is unfair to those of us who would use it for the purpose they were designed to be punished.

Thats all I've got, thanks!

DO NOT KEEP LARGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY IN WORLD !!! Use Paypal and transfer in as needed - start pushing your renters into paying direct by Paypal.

Another thing that this will bring is the higher prices on items in second life, store owners will bring up there prices to that they can keep the Open Space sims.

If the price goes up, I will no longer pay for the OS I am renting.

Linden Labs, why do you hate us so much?

They get an ASSLOAD of money in from sims.

This is just extortion.

The #1 (at the moment) is a request for more groups, and the #3 (at the moment) is a call for action on content theft.

And I'm not surprised that none of the top three issues – the three most important issues to the entire user base – have a Linden assigned to them.

That is breaking U.S law

well, simulator run on linux, as Linden staff say on blog and other site...

http://linux.die.net/man/5/limits.conf

writing a simple file and creating a user for every simulator istance (on quadr core, 16 OS, from "sim0" to "sim15" as name of users on linuxbox) a dumb can edit a file and limit in hard mode CPU consumption, memory consumption and other per user, in this way if somebody abuse him OS sim don't affect other...

if the reason are really poor performances due abuser... this solution solve the trouble and no price increase necessary... if somebody abuse of owned OS only abuser suffer performances near to 0, other OS go fine...

PS: paying 75usd or 125usd the power of CPU don't change, startup fee are abnormal (but comprehensive of handpower to setup and close screw on rack, 1000usd for a simulator startup mean 4000usd for a simple single cpu quad core, I bought IBM server quad core for about 800euros with discrete configuration)

I was thinking of getting an OS Sim sometime soon, but if they are going to be so expensive, not a chance. What I hope LL is paying attention to, is that they are going to lose a TON of people that already have OS Sims, and will lose all of the potential buyers as well.

As some have said before, this is against the law. This is plain and simply extortion. LL you better be paying attention to your residants for once unlike every other issuethat you seem to ignore us on.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-10074637-52.html?tag=mncol

Update:
More interesting news
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog

Lindens? Take very careful note. 1272 is MORE than the entire age verification protest group ever got to. In three hours. The anti-AV group took four weeks to grow. We're pissed, and this piss-poor decision will bury your already stygian reputation, assuming it does not bury you entirely. If your mainland model is failing, this is not going to improve it. People are abandoning mainland properties as a result of this, and my own full estate may actually be abandoned, not resold. Yes, abandoned. I will eat the cost of my sim if it means you people no longer making a buck on it-- You, do not deserve my cash or my patronage, and with a betrayal like this on top of the 40% devaluation you have already made me eat on my full sim, losing what value is left is worth sending a clear message.

Your methods are no longer welcome. This is a bait and switch of the foulest order.

Now they want to increase the price of a sim that has less prims and you can't use for anything really long term? The Lindens need to take a long hard look at the RL Economy, and realize people do not have the disposable income they used to have, and sooner or later hard choices will need to be made if they will continue giving their money to Linden Labs for essentially the same service and product we got 2-3 years ago or if their money is better spent elsewhere.

I was considering a OS Sim for my group to add along to our regular sim, but now I wonder why I should spend that kind of money for a sim that really would not be as useful but cost almost as much as a regular sim.

Back when Linden Labs made an offer to sim purchasers who bought before the price decrease, the free Openspace sim offer wasn't that bad a value at all. Crap processor usually and terrible lag most of the time, but at least it wasn't that much per month once it would kick in.

This was also right before the release of expanded Openspace land sales - and before this end conclusion of action. So, offer them out free, offer them out easier, with a light warning 'oh please do not build on them' and non enforcement - people start complaining about rentals and lag - and LL plays innocent that they could not have possibly forseen this, and HAS to increase the land tier, to provide quality service.

Malarky. You know, I would say, LL, i hope you get your just rewards out of operating a company in this fashion - but like so many of your peer businesses they're all still making out like bandits manipulating their customers. So will you. Thank you, for operating under the same over zealous market destroying capitalism that has brought our real world economy to the brink of depression. Hey! While you're at this, why not offer some Second Life (tm) Second Credit Cards so people can qualify when they can't normally qualify, for loans for sims. Works great in the real world!

I'd say you were incompetent fools if I didn't suspect you were run by psychopaths, yes just like most global business nowadays. Who do you think ended up with all those trillions we just lost around the world? People with business attitudes just like yourselves.

Meantime ... You change the rules regularly and, so far, every land related change benefits you financially and punishes the remnants of loyalty in your customer base. That's what psychopaths do.

I have three full sim private islands joined by an openspace sim, used entirely for sailing and swimming. Two tiny islands and a pirate ship, no residents, and rarely 2 avatars on the sim. What did I do to deserve this price increase?

PLUS

You decreased the price in open sims, you did it to sell land to many more people,
then you increased the price again. This is as close to bait and switch as you can get
It is unfair, unethical and probably illegal and I will support action against your decision.

Not that any psychopath has ever cared who loves them provided the money rolls in

Police your policies if you want my respect (I know you don't)
Reverse this policy!!

A price increase over 50%, especially in a time like this, is really going to kill their business.

Got my vote.

Are openspace sim users using too much bandwidth? CAP THE BANDWIDTH.

It's not hard. This is just a piss poor excuse for extortion.

So,we shall watch as thousands of sims are abandoned and the masses follow like lemmings back to the mainland - which is, for the most part, still a laggy, ugly, offensive place for normal folk. Maybe I'll come back as a noob and do nothing but build laggy crap to further litter the hell that is the mainland. After all - those idiots are never punished. It is the money toting, honest sim owners who make this fly for LL yet we are continually punished for our loyalty to the Linden Lab God who is too busy counting it's money right now to look at these comments.

It is business - I get that but, usually, customers are rewarded not raped, beaten and left for dead!

Best option,
Class 5 Full Sim 15000 prims 4 to a server at today's pricing $1000 startup $295 monthly
Class 5 Openspace 7500 prims 8 to a server $500 startup $150 monthly
Class 5 Openspace (Add On) 937-1850 prims 16 to a server $250 startup $75 monthly (limit scripting and max avs to 10)

As it stands to pay nearly half and only get 1/4 of the resources is devauling openspaces and doing nothing to help performance and usage issues other then charging more for less and more people will abandon openspaces all together loosing more money then gaining.

Regards,
VS

I'm well aware that the Lindens have technically covered themselves with the language on their website about these sims not being appropriate for living, rentals, and events.

But the ability to cut them up in parcels; the doubling of their prims after Havoc 4 testing was successful; the ability to designate alternate payors; the ability to transfer the sims; the absence of any kind of hard limit on the sims – all these spell and enabling environment and a collusive environment regarding the use of the sims for purposes others than those officially stated.

The Lindens need to do the right thing here.

At the very least, they must waive the re-conversion fee to those who already converted their empty islands to 4 openspace sims to try to salvage their business. They should be allowed to put these back to islands, free of charge.

Anyone who has to unload these sims now because they can't pay the increased tier should be able to do so without having the person who takes them up pay a transfer fee – in some cases people already paid rent/purchase fees and transfer fees on sims that they had no idea would suddenly increase so much in tier costs.

Overall, the Lindens, going forward, need to make up a stable and reasonable price for all sim products in 2009, and not swerve up and down from it in such volatile fashion, it's destructive to their business and hours.

By the way Linden Labs, I am curious to what the actual number of "unique users" is on average, and not simply how many clients/bots are logged in!

Gees have you ever heard of a property tax increase of 66% while cutting the value in usage of the land. Insane. we will drop our light sims, which we use exactly as intended, before we'll stand for this stick up.

Lindens offered up Openspace as is, they increased prims, did NOT monitor usage ( though in their power to do so, and probably should have)

They realize they were wrong and some people were abusing it so they raise prices. Or is that the case????

THOUGH, from my viewpoint at least something is amiss. Same number of prims used by me, two different locations. OPENSIM: script time: 0.7 on shared full sim, me taking 1/4 sim: 14.8 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok, that isnt MY problem. I don't know of any way to tell which parcel is causing such a load, but it isn't anything immediately obvious!

Perhaps they should charge by script load and prim usage and not hose people for WHERE they live.

I was questioning my distrust of this increase until i checked my OWN numbers in two different places. Now i think there is WAY more to the increase.

What gives?

i used to develop on IMVU, then they started doing similar crap, raising fees without cause, not realizing who is keeping their company alive, which was the developers, because without those products, your avi looks like crap essentially. they have gone so far not only in fees, but in lack of protection of developers rights in general, that many of the top designers there quit designing, closed their websites and left. if sl wishes to have a similar fate, go right ahead. people stand lag, high prices for land, crashes, etc., not because we are stupid, but because we did enjoy sl. if you raise prices so much that people cannot enjoy it anymore, you WILL lose your customers, you WILL lose developers, and you most DEFINITELY WILL lose MONEY. that may be the one thing you notice, but by then, you will have alienated far too many people, and put of others who would have potentially spent much more money as well. people do not invest in land as a one time thing. they don't buy land on a whim. when they first pay for the land, its an investment, whether its for a big or small company, or just for personal use. its an investment of time and money. YOU cannot now come and use their dreams and businesses and happiness and relaxation, etc. to extort more money from them. if its a problem of people abusing openspaces, fine THEM, not EVERYONE. you know who the violators are, deal with them. this way of dealing with it is madness and business suicide. and it may not happen immediately, but mark my words, if you DO choose to go ahead and screw over your customers, you WILL lose money. so save yourselves from the only thing that WILL hurt you and be fair to your customers. you are not the only program like this. you are not the only way for people to make a living, make some extra money, have fun with friends, just relax and de-stress and whatever myriad purposes people find sl suits. we will go on and be just as happy, and you will eventually be left in your own ashes. the choice is yours. you make your decisions, WE makes OURS. that simple.

i was prepared to spend between 7,000-10,000 USD per year, for land ALONE. add up my potential business sales from my store, commercial and residential rentals, the money people would spend elsewhere buying accessories not found in my store, or furniture from elsewhere AFTER buying lindens from you, and the fact that this would not be for one year only, but for as long as possible, years perhaps. now multiply that by other business owners who may pack up shop and leave, as well as those planning to run businesses the same way, and those customers who have no need for lindens because their favourite stores are no more and stop buying and stop playing. and project THAT across the years. now seeing some loss? perhaps that little scenario may help you to think more before trying to screw all these people. i put it to you, linden labs, with my strongest reccommendation, that you think long and hard about what you're about to do. look at the votes there, there's more to come, your customers are speaking, are you listening?

I don't think so!

As usual, Linden Lab makes yet another brutal and unilateral decision, and is going to screw up the grid for a majority of its customers....

And what for ?.... To force people to buy some land on their new Nautilus sims ?... To rule out private owners and make more room for corporates ? ... To take down small businesses and make more room for large ones ?... Or perhaps are they simply too greedy and think not enough open space sims owners will leave to result in a money loss for LL (they could pretty much see 40% of open space sims closing down, since they increased the tier by over 60%)...

Keep it up this way, LL, and soon SL will be history, because nobody will stay or come on the grid. Is it not already enough that the "loged in last 60 days" figure on the login screen dropped from 1,500,000 in november 2007 (after a rapid and exponential growth) to 1,200,000 since the first quarter 2008 and can't raise more since ?... Don't you understand your customers are fed up by your constant policy changes ?

It would be about time LL would learn their lesson, before it's too late. >

http://www.flickr.com/groups/openspacevoid/discuss/72157608448431980/

It's the transcript of an emergency concierge meeting with Jack Linden

Moronic - Irresponsible - Community Killing.

Current tier prices are why most of the malls are empty. This will hasten the introduction of competitors and open source metaverses.

This Jira is for Reporting and Tracking Bugs, Issues and Feature Requests that affect Second Life Residents and their Second Life Experience. This Jira Issue is, from what I can see, a temper tantrum over new policies put in place.

This is abuse of the Jira.

Policies are put in place for a Reason. The policies will improve the Second Life Experience for many Residents by improving stability and performance. And I believe that a lot of Residents abused the OpenSpace Sims, this should have been expected. The prices are still cheaper than the price of a normal sim.

Policies take a while and are not just a wacky idea from a guy sitting at a desk, they go through approval and planning and I don't see this new policy changing any time soon. Therefor this Jira Issue is pointless and a waste of resources, though I have a feeling this issue will just be re opened until this issue is forgotten about, or your find something else to have a temper tantrum over.

http://pastebin.com/f7ffaa7e5

This Jira is for Reporting and Tracking Bugs, Issues and Feature Requests that affect Second Life Residents and their Second Life Experience. This Jira Issue is, from what I can see, a temper tantrum over new policies put in place.

This is abuse of the Jira.

Policies are put in place for a Reason. The policies will improve the Second Life Experience for many Residents by improving stability and performance. And I believe that a lot of Residents abused the OpenSpace Sims, this should have been expected. The prices are still cheaper than the price of a normal sim.

Policies take a while and are not just a wacky idea from a guy sitting at a desk, they go through approval and planning and I don't see this new policy changing any time soon. Therefor this Jira Issue is pointless and a waste of resources, though I have a feeling this issue will just be re opened until this issue is forgotten about, or your find something else to have a temper tantrum over.
______________________

WTF?
This certainly AFFECTS MY SECOND LIFE EXPERIENCE.
New policies shouldn't be able to be re-written without consent of those who abide by them. It is theft for them to pull this stunt.

Just as a few managerial types can sit down and come up with this over time so can we, the residents of Second Life, argue it by the thousands and are at this point protesting it and I won't let this one drop.

This'll be the second time I've been screwed out of my money. I won't let it happen again, with or without prior notice.

~T

Bad deal! So much for expanding.

I wonder if the soon to be vacated servers will be repurposed for this corporate venture:

http://lindenlab.com/pressroom/releases/10_20_08

Think of it as urban renewal.

if LL needs more money they should open some "1875 Prim" sims
(I'd personaly whould enjoy this since i want a little asian sim to myself - but it will enver hapepn with the high prices)

and hoenstly if it's the issues of people forcing open sims to do the work that mainlands sims where suposed to do.. dont rise prices... infocre rules.. or make some new sim types that can handle the lag.

I'm part of a mermaid group and there are vrey few merfolks in sl. Most mermaid sims are Open sim, i'm mostly sure that most will disspeer if this happens. others sl races that are very much like mermaids will dissapeer as well, such as praites, Furrys, Role players of all colors, clubs - ohh i wont even go into how many clubs will die.

In essence, we have been offered the sweet life only to be turned out into the cold because LL no longer wishes to deal with our presence. I've seen the impact openspaces have made with SL. More and more residents have joined, more people actually own their own world within SL instead of renting or wandering having no place to call their home and truly speaking of abuse and what not. I've seen such responsibility and care with estate owners. A large part of openspace owners understand the meaning: "Low Prim, Light Use". To thrust such a high price hike truly sends negative messages as well as a impending domino affect that could cripple the SL metaverse. There has to be a better option or better solutions then "heres 66% on your bill, please eat it and move on." As for Meghan and her little rants on abuse and whining. It's people and minds like that, that continue to provide limitations not only in SL, but in Real Life.

you have my vote

http://xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=987771

Today we have found out that LL plans on making some drastic changes to their open sim prices etc... Don't think that this won't hurt you even if you dont own one. IT WILL... Many who have the open sims have made them not only their home but homes of others or even nice places for the public to visit. Below I have listed a recap of what LL plans on doing.

RECAP ~
Openspace prices and fees change on the 1st January with no grandfathering.
Class 4 Openspaces will be upgraded to class 5 in January.
Educator discount is no longer available for Openspaces.
No Owner switching for Openspaces unless it's a full transfer of Payor.
More proactive education by support staff to prevent unfair resource use by Openspace regions.
We're sure there will be many of you with questions and concerns on the back of this announcement. As previously, there will shortly be a forum created specifically for discussion of these changes so please head over here if you wish to provide feedback. In addition, if you need a more personal dialogue about this post, please contact support as usual. "

Source - http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/10/27/openspace-pricing-and-policy-changes/

I wish to protest this increase and loss of benefit to non profits and education!

This is a poor time for such a change with so many facing financial difficulties. Many businesses and individuals rely on open spaces currently due to inability to purchase the more expensive mainland or islands. This increase will cause Linden Labs a huge loss of business and the people responsible should seriously re-evaluate this situation.

To learn more about this situation and read what others have to say about it please visit the link below and make your voice be heard by voting against this crazy change.

http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1776
log in and vote

Other suggestions of how to make your voice heard ~
1)....DONT BUY ANY LINDEN$ DURING THE NEXT WEEK FROM TOMORROW 29 OCTOBER TO THE 4 OF NOVEMBER SEND THIS MESSAGE ON ALL FORUMS PLEASE
2)...SUGGESTION THE 31 OCTOBER NO CONNECTIONS ON SL ALL OVER THE WORD

STATISTICS ARE THE ONLY THING THAT THEY SEEM TO READ OR UNDERSTAND !!!

REMEMBER SL IS OUR WORLD CREATED BY EACH OF YOU!!

http://xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=987771

Here is an alternative 3D world by Google.

http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2008/07/be-who-you-want-on-web-pages-you-visit.html
http://www.lively.com/html/landing.html

LL, if you keep increasing your fee, people will choose Google 3D instead. Then what will you do?

I SECOND THAT!! AND +1

Anyways.. Have the Lindens explained anything further to these actions IE: What other "extras" will be forthcoming from this upgrade?
The Lindens do not just whismically do things without a reason...(awaits the bashing from such a statement ) Im not saying that this is RIGHT.. I am simply saying that we need to examin ALL aspects and angles of this before we jump onto the bandwagon.
IF the Lindens are using this increase to UPGRADE their servers, bandwidth, Databases, etc etc,... then i am for it.. after all the end result will mean a greater experience for us the user.

With the economic downturn in RL markets etc and the slumping economy, draconian mesaures such as this may be the Linden's downfall.... after all who can really afford ANYTHING these days, let alone a "simulated" economy that is only increasing costs and not benifitting the end user.

I do not own land. I rent, and I can see that this will probably be the end of that rental, as the renter will probably not be able to afford such a thing.

I have voted to STOP this action.

to raise the price, and restrict current owners to only sell back to the original payer, also ensures that anyone currently wanting to change the structure of their open space sim (to comply with what LL feels is not "abuse") is severly limited in their options.

Know your enemy.

but nevertheless it is just right to say that this seems to be somewhat strange, get contracts like mad for voids and now raise the bill...
ok, usually they dotn really care much about us complaining their decisions, but this one will have consequences even for them, plainly economic ones. and i doubt that their idea of getting moneyout off this will really workout, since many will stop paying and give in, very simple.

im wondering why they dont simply cut the traffic to a reasonable amount, and they might even raise fees a bit, but my goodness, 66% plus ??????
for ZERO plus for the user? not a SINGLE prim????

now - can this be true?

so just vote, for it is the only thing you can do atm... I personally wont buy a single linden in november, see if this gets their attention ...

@ Linden lab
my 2 cents for you !
make a monthly Tier on every account like 9.99 € ( its to handle for all People ill think 1 hour Work in RL+ - ) and pay ( 5000-8000 ca Linden Dollars here we can talk about how much ) out for it every Month!
so you minimize the traffic, and keep the Bots and fake Avatars out,(what is for many your clients a big Problem you know it ? ) you increase the in game Economy, and you can sell your Sims, for a fair and realistic Price to the clients! more less then actually !!!!
and make with this money from monthly accounts your JOBS, like Grid stability, Conference chats are laggy as Hell , lag free and better performance, Avatars wanna join more Groups, etc.. there are many things to make Your JOB , and all your customers are happy !

Linden OpenSpace Sim "Mos Ainsley"

I've known the true colors of LL for some time and I'm not surprised. I haven't bought a Linden in some time
and will never do so again. I will also remain logged out on 31Oct as one poster suggested.

SL is our canvas, yes. But higher prices will take that canvas away from most all of us.
But remember, there are many canvases.

I hope we are all ready to vote with our feet
should it become necessary. LL's attention is not diverted by statistics, but by $$.

Life will go on, and if it goes on without a sim...without a "home"... without this particular outlet for our
artistic and creative talents...or even without SL completely, then so be it....

LL is making a big mistake. But do no let it surprise you too much. Regardless of the altrustic "vision" insinuated by and
attributed to LL, let me remind you of an unpleasant fact---> "Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." Nothing more; nothing less.

YMMV

It also is not about tthe few real malusers. If that would be the issue, they would be punished and not us. This is just a mean trick to make us pay more.

Linden Labs in the past has showed, not to care about content theft, the sudden price of openspaces and many other issues. They raise the prises, some people dump their space, the rest payes more. the result: less openspaces, equal or more money.

ADVICE FOR ANYONE: never ever buy land from linden labs, rent if you can, because linden labs does these kind of things. If you rent you are not stuck with an island you don't want, with increased tier, rules or other things linden labs enforces all os a sudden.

This is easily the dumbest thing I've seen LL do, and I've seen them do a lot of dumb things. Openspaces are useful and popular because they're cheap and light use, perfect for one or two individuals who want a lot of space but don't need a lot of prims. Upping the price with no added benefits makes them useless for their intended purpose!

OS sims being overloaded and 'abused'? How can you overload an OS sim any more than a full sim? OS are 1/4 the prims of a full one - be it mainland or private (3750 vs 15000). Having four OS on one server is no different on prims than a dedicated server to a single sim. The 'light use' is already a part of the OS itself by the prim count alone. Seems if it was really an issue of being overloaded, the prim count could easily be reduced as opposed to charging more for the same prim count. Wonder why this 'overload' only affects OS areas. Sure seems like the 4 OS on this server run better with 3500 prims each than some private regions with 8,000 prims on a class 5. If 3750 is too much, why give it to use? Reminds me of the overdraft banking commercial - it's free, if you don't use it...

Think the real issue is OS gave people an option from having to buy mainland. People who rented out OS took an interest in their renters and provided what LL cant - a pleasurable interaction. Mainland prices have tanked for over a year. LL is losing lindens to OS owners who rent them out. If LL limits the options for people, the people are forced to buy mainland or pay more for being on an OS.

Currently a 1/4 region of mainland is the same monthly cost as an OS... so if you're gonna pay $75 a month for 3750 prims, where would you rather go - mainland with 16,384 sqm or OS with 65,536 sqm? Think it all comes down to LL trying to limit their own competition, gain mainland tier fee, and make it harder for individuals to deliver the proven 'better mousetrap'... but what do I know? I'm just a OS owner for another month who wont be buying mainland.

And for 'abuse'... Can't argue that... Linden basically says sure come buy it, but don't use it:
"They are provided for light use only, not for building, living in, renting as homes or use for events."
"As a stretch of open water for boating or a scenic wooded area they are fine"
Guess if you rezzed a couple boats, jetskis, and a treehouse to watch friends race them, you would be abusing the OS by building and having an event... and good gosh don't put out a fishing area and invite people - that might take 50 prims if you built a dock too... but 'abuse' by definition.

It's all about greed... plain and simple, in my opinion.

You have my vote. There is a far better way to deal with overuse... like punishing the actual offenders.

LL, either clean up the mainland to be as attractive as Openspaces and private estates or STFU.

You are going to potentially lose a lot of people over this issue..hope you're prepared for it.

Lindens, are you aware of just how much empty hardware you'll suddenly have, if you do this?

Of Course we have no choice but to pay if that is what the Lindens want but a sweeping price hike of 66% is totally unreasonable. What ever happened to gradual increases to soften the blow? Already we face serious economic problems and this price hike smacks of profiteering. And as if VAT wasn't bad enough! And now the £pound to $dollar has dropped sharply too! Lindens WILL loose in the End. Mark my words.

I will keep my openspace and pay but I take this as a kick in the teeth, not to be forgotten and, as one who has spent over $12,000 in SL since joining 18 months ago I think they need me more than I need them! But something will have to give and I will/must cut spending so I will buy less and take a good look at my holdings and see what I can do with out.

So, more of my money goes to Linden Labs and a whole lot less into the economy of Second Life.

I personally am watching the development of Open Sims, the rapidly developing alternative to Second Life and if the Lindens get too greedy, people will leave in droves and those who have invested so much time and money in Second Life will loose. Can Linden Labs aford to ignore this?

Sim prices include full sim, 45,000 prims as low as $75 but many variable prices. Low prim sims include 15,000 prims at around $30 to $45 and lower prim sims as little as $10.

I have watched their development for the last 3 months and what I have seen they are catching SL up fast. Already they have 2/3 of LSL scripting available and full building and avatar is fine. It looks and feels just the same as Second Life and even the Second Life view can be used. Jioning any Sim provider is free and you can even download the software and run your own sim on your own server if you want. Plenty of providers allow this. Oh, and most do have money in use too. Give it a look.

Screw us Lindens?

Second Life is NOT the only Virtual World out there now. Others are catching up FAST!!!!!

I think overall they should work like a hosting company would, as that is what they are doing here. Set the limits, if you go over for a set period of time then set a penalty fee. This of course would not apply to temporary spikes for avies entering the sims or rezzing objects unless it exceeded x amount of time.

But what they are doing here is affecting a LOT of people, and they really need to think again about what they are doing and how it will affect the big picture. My question is what is the hidden agenda behind this. Because most OS sims I stopped into, while inhabited were running pretty stable, script times were a little high as was to be expected but TD's were typically between 0.94 - 1.0 and only had 1 -4 avies on it. I will be spending the next few days monitoring mine, and will post them.

Their only reason is... they don't earn enough on Lowprim Sims.

But I think they make a big mistake... this time...

You've got my VOTE!!!

Anyway, after looking for an OS I liked for a week, I've decided to be homeless. Like many others I will use SL as a chatroom only.
LL's excuse that there are a few who abuse the light usage thing is so full of holes it's inane. They've shown themselves to be no better than the troglodytes who run Utherverse or There.com - greed drives them.
I've had a business for almost 12 years and have found that the satisfaction of the customer and that the customer is always right are two of the best foundations a business can have. THAT fosters loyalty and a good relationship between the business and the customer. Greed creates resentment. But perhaps Lindens think that their company is so big that they don't have to give a crap about the customer.

http://sered-sl.blogspot.com/2008/10/alternative-openspace-solution-pay-per.html

IF IT WERE NOT THAT...why is the price going up, but no new support, features, improvements being made? Nowhere did it say "We will put 2 OS sims on one server, hence the increase". Its an increase JUST for the sake of forcing attrition.

And consider this...

LL permits griefers, LL permits sim owners who repeatedly rip off their residents (we all know people who have had this happen to them), yet those of us who invest significant amounts of money (and COUNTLESS hours of our own time) into MAKING THEIR PRODUCT BETTER...well, screw us. We are an INCONVENIENCE...we are SERVER LOAD...we are to them "THE ONES WE NEED TO GET RID OF RATHER THAN ENGINEERING A SOLUTION THAT WORKS."

Thank you LL for making it PERFECTLY clear as to your priorities and how little you invest in those who invested in YOU.

LL...we could understand an increase if you explained it in terms of "Here's what you get for your money". But to do nothing other than say "We're charging more because some of you are abusive pigs!" is just about the stupidest thing I've ever seen a company do. And I have been in professional game development since 1989.

Honestly...THINK about this REALLY. We know you had meetings, we know you SAY you spent a lot of time thinking about it...but did you think of what your actions are telling people? "We're going to charge you more but give you nothing". HELLO? How did you feel when you paid more and more for gas and got less and less of it? Oh, sorry, you probably don't have to worry about the price of gas like the rest of us...clearly that's true because you are obviously so out of touch with what everyone in your virtual world is going through...and your actions make that clear. Not only out of touch, but uncaring...and that's the surest way to kill ANY online community.

I can't believe that.

I suspect a techincal person came up with this based on a calculation of what they are calling "avatar load" and the extra costs it creates in terms of server use, but someone with "business-sense" didn't take a good look at it, because it is a poor business practce to do things such as they have said they will do. I know many people who operate two and more avatars at the same time here using multiple operations of SL and/or multiple computers, what about that effect on avatar load?

I have been to see Nautilus and I do not think it is a viable business plan. The Greco-Roman islands that were made for the concierge party were far more interesting and engaging tha Nautius. I will be very surprised to see mny people purchase lots at auction. The place itself is interesting and has some hidden surprises (such as apparently over-limit builds like the 50m tall scripted channel gates), but will it sell? I have my doubts.

I support Linden Labs with money each month (kind of a lot of money) and know that all my many hundreds of hours of work building and many many hundreds of dollars spent buying things here can all be gone in a wink as the lights are turned off at Linden Labs if they fail. I want them to succeed, but they will have success only through pleasing their customers, not changing rates after the fact.

I do not own any Open Space sims, but I was seriously contemplating buying two for sailing water along a beach I have here, but I probably won't be doing that now.

Please don't o anything really stupid here, Linden, please succeed and please know that you must please your customers. We tolerate the agony of each Update (none of which seem to work well right at first), we fear that a missed payment might cause u to lose everything, we have mourned the loss of friends who have disappeared, we have tolerated the loss of substantial amounts of inventory costing many dollars, but the trailer park owner mentality of getting people involved in a place and then extorting them for every penny is not a proper business model for this wonderful place.

Best wishes to us all,

Kamille Demina

How on earth can we afford this with LL raising the rates this ridiculous amout. Are they an oil company is disguise? What are they thinking in a time when all our business's in SL are down a significant amount not just RL. No one in this country is even making the same wage as last year unless they got a new job. We have been working for less for years now. Goods and services continue to climb while wages do not. This is the time that LL deems appropriate to raise the rent? And 66%? THank goodness in rl there are usually controls on such things.

Not only do I support this but I think that LL should sell Open SIMS to anyone even before they purchase a full prim SIM. It is a way to get in and get started and when you can see your way to break even or gain a profit change it into a full prim SIM.

Obviously, this is not a democracy, it is a business. Too bad cangress cannot chase this around like they are creating bills to prevent oil speculation and investigation into price fixing and gouging.

One day there will be a number of worlds available to all of us and LL may reap what they have sowed. I can have no real loyalty to those that would almost walk me into a corner and then blindside me and pick my pockets. Thank goodness, again, I did not lease that Open SIM

It is already very hard for Europeans to step into the land business, due to VAT. They are facing about 20% higher prices for everything already, they just can't compete with their American colleagues. Okay, this might be a legal issue LL cannot change, but they could take it into account.

This JIRA issue properly addresses the ongoing CORE ISSUE that is behind the reasoning of Linden Lab's proposition to increase the tier fees.

That is, Linden Labs wants to charge higher tier costs on Open Space sims due to the overloading of available resources. This is understandable, but does not in any way address a certain key issue that contributes to simulator load. Avatars are the largest contributor to simulator lag and overloading. The core issue behind this ongoing debate on tier fees on Open Spaces is that Linden Labs has NOT provided a suitable method for users, content creators and estate owners to monitor and self-regulate simulator loads caused by avatars, their scripted attachments, and to an extent, objects that they rez. By not providing a method for self regulation, it is to no surprise that many simulators throughout Second Life are plagued with lag.

MISC-1781 proposes new features to the Second Life client that will allow for better self-regulation by users, content creators and estate owners. It DIRECTLY addresses a major ongoing problem in Second Life. It is an issue that CAN be addressed by Linden Labs, and it an issue for which there IS a solution. It needs your vote, your attention, and help with publicity to make it happen.

I am part of the Fantasy Continent who just spent months planning and organizing a consolidated move of 40+ sims, to create a contiguous continent, including many openspace sims to fill in any gaps. Many of the sim owners will be forced to give up our openspace sims, which will leave holes everywhere.

This is really the last straw for me. I am sure you will be losing many, many, many good supportive users over this one. And as a content creator, that depends on a broad customer base, this is really disconcerting.

You may be digging your own grave here, LL. Bad decision.

I vote for The rise in Prices to be reversed, if not then you do so prove a dictatorship and from here on the truth will out to all of your contributers!

I do not own any open space, but a whole full sim and some land all on mainland. I do not do any commercial activity on the lands I rent to LL. But for my pleasure, and the benefit of the community I try to make nice looking places to visit.

With this policy, I've just lost any confidence I still did have in Linden Lab. Now the open sims, what's next ? How could we dare plan/build things in second life, with LL acting like stupid irrespectuous people?

SO, FROM NOW ON : I'll remove all the L$ I have on my SL account, and not put any L$ back on it till this measure is removed. If it is not removed I'll downgrade from premium on december 1st, as who need to pay land on SL when you can meet your friends on abandoned land for free ?

For the building occupation I like, I'll start installing a free open sim at home.

From experience these sims will not handle twice the intended load and become extremely slow and painful to use if you are stupid enough to try. I have one for my home and while 99% of the time it is light use I have had the occasional small gathering for a rezz day or private wedding ceremony and I can tell you now the claim that people are ABLE to over use these simulators is nonsense.

If this is however the case why isn't LL giving us more prims, doubling the price and calling it a half sim? Because they would rather take our money and give us nothing in return. They took our setup fee, out tier so far and now its bait and switch.

I personally will have to abandon my sim as with the price rise and Australian dollar at the moment this equates to a doubling of my tier cost.

Now homeless.
Kyal Jonesford.

Well, I for one will dump my rental in SL and look into renting in one of the Open sim grids. They aint busy yet but if all I want is a quiet sim for a home then hell, why sit here being ripped off? I can just as easily move to an Open sim and have a whole region, a great house and simply bring my friends and girls over. I can still use SL for meeting new people but live in another world at a fraction of the cost.

I'm not giving Linden Labs any more than I have too. The gravy train is off the rails, guys!

No, I don't own opensace sims.

If you have 40 to 50 av's coming into 1 openspace sim, cap it. What's so hard about that?? And if that doesn't work, then upgrade SL servers, so that the prims and allowances already given, can be handled, with minimal lag. And if you put it out there, people are gonna use it to its full ability. If I have 3000 prims available to me, wouldn't it be common sense to say, "Hey, I got 3000 prims, so I'm gonna use them" Whether it be club, mall, etc. If you don't want people using all 3000 prims or 2000 prims etc. then either put a rule in place, or cap it.

You DEFINETLY got my vote on this for sure.

back before the chnages to the open space they came in sets of 4 and they were only 1875 prims and they had to be ancred/attached to your full prim sim.

LL mislead everyone into thinking that it was okay to do anything on the open space sime and not doing a thing to inform anyone any differently till now

LL can scream all they want that the open space sims were never intended for that and its nothing but lies.

If open space sims were ment to be water only why were the prims doubled in april and why was it changed so they came in singles and nolonger had to be hooked to your full prim sim?? noone is going to put a som of water out oin the middle of no place..

This is notihng ubt Extortion by linden labs and they have already been in legial trouble some time back form some other scam they pulled

Certainly there has been miss-usage and exploitation of OS sims and their performance. But you just can't blaim it on all OS sim owners in general. In a chat log with Jack Linden it was pretty clear that LL also dislikes the idea of estate owners earning 25-50$ / month from renting out OS sim. Resulting in a meltdown of the mainland land sales for larger parcels. However, it is not fair to customers raising the prices for this sims in order to stabilise the mainland market. Thousands of OS sims have been ordered (and paid) when LL announced their OS sim policy change ealrier this year. Increasing the monthly price for this sims by 67% is not very appreciated by your paying customers.

You also should do some math. 4 OS sims will cost 500US$ / month once th enew policy kicks in. This is 205US$ more than a estate sim costs per month. Many esate owners that prior held more full prim sims have taken the LL offer and had a full prim sim split into 4 OS sims. Do you really want to charge this sim owners now 205US$ more per month cause they converted a full prim sim into 4 OS sims?

Sorry LL, yet another step into the poo-poo....

Many Open Spaces are used by the average person to enjoy the game with a few friends. Because a few abuse this the majority are going to wear the pain.. If this is not the case then show us the facts an costings. Not just make a descion that to all looks like a get rich scheme by Lindens.

DONT BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS

Voted

_{I protest the Open Sim Issue because I do not abuse my open sim, nor does anyone I know, they are still light use and low script, I protest the Open Sim Issue because LL is punishing everyone for what only a few people are doing and only thinking of their pocket books!}

If there is indeed a problem with a few of these sims, could you not have tried an approach to address just those issues? Obviously not. A sledgehammer instead of a scalpel.

the open sim gives everyone a piece of privacy and allows owners like me to plan a ocean front with deep see diving and things like that .

please LL find another sulotion,,, maybe create another sim , a smaller one...with the same amount of prims ...for people to live on ,

but don't take what is out there and kill so many peoples dreams....

If you need more cash to cover operating cost try the WalMart method
and sell more for less , not less for more.

A 67% price increase is simply not justifiable!

Your attempt to alter demographics and force people back to mainland is transparent, we do not for a moment buy the story about misuse and server overheads blah blah blah...if that;s the case then address it...don't penalise everyone.

Once you alienate your client base...good luck trying to win them back!

Try some good strategy, planning and tactics, not 'bull in the china shop' diplomacy.

Jack Linden says: "We believe in Openspaces as a product, but the pricing just wasn't in line with how they are now being used. [...] We believe these changes are necessary to better account for the increased load, so that we can continue to scale this product [...]"
The problem is, this is not the product I bought. I bought a light-use, affordable sim; not a mid-range, half-price sim.
There may well be a market for such mid-range sims, but that is a different product. LL is now forcing the ones who bought the original product to buy this new product or loose what they already have, and that frankly seems on the edge of even being legal.

This affects everyone, from freebies to land barons alike.
And if affects you too, LL, because without us there is no SecondLife.

I vote NO.