|
|
|
[
Permlink
| « Hide
]
Valerie Bethune added a comment - 25/Apr/08 09:54 AM
I entirely agree. The island in question is indeed a valuable resource for many residents/members and should not be lost based on technicalities; while the payment issue itself needs to be fixed in part to allow for the dynamic nature of many of the non-profit organisations that contribute so much in so many ways to Second Life.
I think the difficulty is that peoples situations can and do change, but the existing policy LL have in place doesn't account for that.
This is why the policy needs to be reviewed. If necessary the owner could give permission for co-owners to also bear responsibility for tier, but right now if you aren't the owner LL doesn't want to know. Transfer of ownership is sometimes difficult, not least of which because it's expensive; if the original owner can't afford the tier any more, they aren't going to be able to afford $100 to transfer ownership - and besides, if he recovers and returns to SL he would perhaps still want to be the owner, it was his baby to begin with - so paying another $100 is easy money for LL but not easy for anyone else. When I recently enquired of my local car dealership about methods of payment on a new car, the agent said "Really we don't care HOW you pay, as long as you DO pay". It strikes me that Linden Labs need to lean more towards this policy than a strict "only the owner can pay" This issue currently affects an island that is of great importance to me. The services offered are of great value to the residents in Second Life. That LL will not accept tier except directly from the person who purchased the island is quite harmful and inexplicable. Especially as there is management in place to pay the money. This problem has the potential to negatively impact any of the smaller non profit organizations working in Second Life.
The island in question is a vital member of the community. People are there 24/7, willing to help out anyone in need. Meetings are held at this location, to help those who are in dire need to knowing that they are not alone. People with serious, life-altering mental illnesses depend on this location for help and support during times when there doesn't seem to be much left for them.
Please, help this island survive, by making it possible for others to help KEEP it alive. You have no idea how many lives this will impact if we lose this place. It seems such a pity that an organisational nicety can get in the way of a group of people continuing to do such good work for others. I was present at a meeting where a lot of people got together to help one person get over an awful time in their life. It was heartwarming. This happens all the time because of this group and this island and a lot of people are helped because of them. Let's put people first. As Linde Lab CEO said himself, Second Life is a world, not a game and a world is made up of people. People who care and are cared for. So, please let is make it happen now, by finding a solution to this dilemma.
While the owner of a sim may have the final responsibility to see that the tier gets paid, I don't see why another account can't actually pay the tier.
It is also unclear to me why there can not be discussions with other members of the management team? Is it a matter of a private owner with a group of people helping out Vs a legal entity such as a non-for profit corporation? Further, the good work that goes on at the Support for Healing Island helps people and is great example of what can be done in Second Life. (EG Support for Healing Island having been featured on the BBC.) I would hope that this matter is looked into in a timely manner. I totally and completely support this... in fact, I just changed the severity to "showstopper" because that's what this is going to be if LL decides to take the island away from its management team... I'm sure others will agree with me.
I see no reason why someone else can't pay the tier. C'mon LL, it makes sense.
Given Linden already has a mechanism for the transfer of assets should an island owner pass away in RL, it perhaps should not be beyond reason to allow at least one nominated person to be their proxy, albeit for a short time (maybe 3 months max) should the primary owner be out of SL for some reason and unable to pay tier. This would at least give some continuity when there is a short term problem to save assets being reclaimed by LL. In this specific case, we risk losing more than just "prims". A simple communique from the original owner to LL should allow this. Everyone would benefit from this simple arrangement.
This is not going to be changed in the short-term and I understand that the Description is over-stated. The owner's account is still active and the island is not in immediate danger.
Management teams are fine until there is a dispute, I can understand LL restricting an island to single avatar ownership, and as private regions are not part of the mainland tier system there is no way for groups to own one. A solution would be to create a parallel system of private region tier, so that groups can own private regions and so tier payments can be shared. The description is not over stated.
If you search for the sim owner under Search -> People there are no results returned, because that account is NOT active. As I learned many moons ago, it's possible in Second Life, perpetual world that it is, to have prims and objects and items left over even from accounts that have been deleted; the listening ear hut STILL has items that "belong" to an account I held in 2004. Though the account is long gone (it idled out and was deleted) these items remain in SL. Mercia, please try and make sure you know what you're talking about before you make such sweeping comments. We (the management team, which I am on) do not know when (or at present, how badly) the island is in danger, as the sim owner won't tell us on what day of the month tier is due. This leaves us in a perpetual cycle of fundraising and shunting L$ to the sim owner and basically praying that it ends up in Linden Labs' hands by the right day, which is quite soul-crushing to those of us putting much time and effort into finding ways to raise funds and keep the island going. Understand that we are NOT trying to steal the island or any of the good works of the creator out from under the creator, nor are we trying to do anything more than keep it active during the time he can't be with us. Having a Linden Liason who could give us pertinent details such as the day tier is due and possible alternative methods of payment is all that we seek, which is the reason for this ticket. Is it really too much to ask? > ...as the sim owner won't tell us on what day of the month tier is due.
Simply put, if you don't have full cooperation of the sim owner, I don't think it's a good idea for LL to let you step in and take over the island or island payments. Wouldn't it be messy if a quietly predatory group of "helper" managers managed to wrest control of an island away from its owner simply because they had something come up in RL and weren't able to keep current in SL? I know you assured us that's not what you're doing here... but how is LL to make that judgement in all cases? How can they do that without spending many hours of LL worker time per island? It IS possible for non-profit corporations to hold islands and accounts in SL. I believe they can even get a discount. It seems like that kind of organization is necessary for such an important island as this one. Which part of "we're not trying to take control" don't you understand?
If any of us wanted control, we'd be asking for a transfer of ownership. We're not. We don't want to own it, it's his baby and everyone on the management team is fine with that. We do also already get the discount, but the fact remains that groups can't own the island, only a single person can own the island. All we want is to do is make sure that, in the event that he for whatever reason doesn't get to make the transfer, LL don't swoop in and take away the island. All we're calling for is there to be a reserve plan so that if for some reason LL don't get the entire L$80,000 on time they can ask someone else for it rather than simply close the island. Please don't try to make this issue something it's not. It's not about control, it's about backup plans. It's true, we are not attempting to gain control over the island, but simply assist with payments when the island owner is unable to.
In regards to non-profits owning land in LL and getting a discount, it requires you to be a registered non-profit in RL if I'm not mistaken. It costs money to do that, money which we do not have. The group founder was looking into that at one point and I'm not sure what he discovered but it is possible that it is not feasible for us. I would think that LL would be happy to receive payment in full regardless of who it is from. @Wildcat. "If you search for the sim owner under Search -> People there are no results returned, because that account is NOT active. " Yes, but if you search for their first name in All, they are top of the list. I should have remembered that All is Beta, so a problem has been spotted there.
@Industria "I would think that LL would be happy to receive payment in full regardless of who it is from." No they have a contract with the region owner, if the region owner does not want to take money from you to keep the island going, there is nothing legally safe that LL can do. If this location goes belly-up I suggest your group builds on Mainland next time and then the land can be group owned and paid through group tier donations. If the island closes, it is highly unlikely that any alternative will be considered. It is more likely that SupportforHealing as an entity will simply disband. Some parts of it may live on; Listening Ear might relocate. But in the main it's much more likely that the free services offered by Support for Healing will simply vanish, and anyone who wishes to make use of support groups will end up joining one of the many places that charges for its services.
I have been thinking of resigning after this, and I'm aware that Industria Dowler has almost reached the end of her tether with it as well. We are the most pro-active pair on the management team, I don't know of anyone else who will struggle to keep a group going. It will be a shame if it ends this way, but maybe someone, sometime in the future will take this on board if they should decide to create an island sim in the future. It's obvious nobody cares any more, so I've closed this ticket.
Briefly resurrected my JIRA career to point out that Untameable Wildcat who got so upset about the possible closure of Support for Healing island (which as of 2009 still exists) had posted information about my membership of a supposedly confidential group on that island. Her main gripe against me, that I said that Zafu Diamond (the founder of Support for Healing) had not left Second LIfe and when she pointed out that he could not be found in Search: People and I responded that she had dicovered a problem, I got castigated for not saying sorry! Zafu Diamond still exists in SL in 2009 (in both Search All and Search People).
The web posting is http://healerofsecondlife.blogspot.com/2008_04_01_archive.html This issue has been closed a long time ago because the situation is no longer relevant. Dredging up pointless interpersonal issues has nothing to do with this JIRA issue at all. Keep your personal gripes private, nobody is interested in hearing about them, let alone on a forum dedicated to programmable features.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 |
|
New Feature
Closed
Major
On Island Sims, there should be a way if there's a management team for any of that team to be able to discuss management matters with LL
