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Tristen Clarence added a comment - 17/Oct/09 06:23 AM
I agree 100% with this issue, I think it's absurd that Linden Lab can allow this to happen. Something needs to be done immediately.
Everybody vote and together we can change. We need this now, before the TG dies, its dieing and it needs you to heal it!
Hopefully if they see this they may sympathise with our cause, it's really sad seeing such a great community be ruined so quickly.
I seen all my equipment copy botted before. I'm tired of people doing this. I demand this is fixed.
I have lost much money from this issue. It adds up if you sell that item for 1000L. If this doesn't work then WE should do something, because the TG is becoming a desolate ghost town.
It's a serious issue that needs to be fixed. It's illegal and unfair to a lot of people who work really hard on what they make.
I think how great Second Life used to be from 2005 - 2007 then everything just went down hill, but having so much faith that something can be done, that's what makes me want to stay. Designers on TSL work so hard on there products but when all theese free MG items are being passed around, who is going to buy anything? NOBODY.
Antonia Johin, TSL is already a ghost town. There is no more guy civilian clothes. All of it has been copy botted and open sourced. Female clothing is worse. 60% of items on TG thats female not sold in large stores is copy botted.
Well, Tweed Heron. No one is making anything anymore for one. And two. you are right about the copy botted things. I think TSL peak time was around mid 07'?
It our grid, we should treat it as if its our home land. Even though it is virtual, it is still a part of us. Picard you are right about it being apart of us although it is a virtual world, I'm surprised how I am still playing Second Life after many of my friends have quit, but I still have faith that something can be done. I feel like it is worthless me even designing any more, but I refuse to just let it go. It's time we stop hoping that Linden Lab will do something miraculously and fight for our grid.
TG must stay alive!
TG is my orignally home, and though i've left to MG i still miss it. TG FOREVER! LIVE ON FOREVER! Not everything on the TG is copybot. I know because I'm still there. I don't copybot things myself, but I am very worried about my own store. I have seen TONS of copybotted things, though, and I am really tired of nothing being done about it!!!! Whoever uses the copybot viewers should be banned. That's what I think. And I don't know what will happen if my store gets copybotted!
Agreed, though I don't play SL anymore, I think TG should receive some attention.
It's true, our economy and industries are crumbling because of this. Go to a public area and at least half of the people there will be wearing something botted. In fact, there are even groups of 'stores' springing up with contents all botted--and these people, once banned, just change their IP's and hop right back in.
No matter how much we try to raise awareness, this will just keep going unless we get some serious help. i agree totally with this issue. although i have left for MG i still consider TG as a home, i have still alot of friends there that i miss. I think LL is more concerned about the MG than TG.
Indeed, the Teen Grid needs some serious support about Copybotting. Like mentioned before, people just copybot things, get IP banned, then change their IP, and continue copybotting. It's a huge issue and its ruining our grid.. LL seems to think just because the MG has more people on it, that it deserves the most attention. We need their attention on this issue.
There is no doubt in my mind that this needs to be done. When a MG Copybotted Item takes away from the value of a hardworking person who dedicated TIME and EFFORT TO their material it is saddening, so this is of the UTMOST importance! ASAP LL ASAP!
I agree completely with this issue. TSL designers, work very hard on making there products. The TSL economy is just going to completely rot.
A lot of designers are just giving up because, what is the point of making new items? When someone will just go to "Main Grid" and copy bot something 10x's better then what you made. LL needs to get more concerned about TSL. Because they're people here who enjoy it very much and would like to keep everything clean like it once was. I agree with this 100% i have seen my friends creations given away free due to this
We do need LL to stop CBing, it ruins the TG economy. Do remember, we run on another moneymaking item, militaries, but I hate when ppl CB things. It is basically stealing, plain and simple.
Either remove copybotted content or disallow the moving of one's inventory from the teen grid to the main grid entirely. LL sure doesn't seem to want to deal with intellectual property issues, but they are probably going to have to at some point if they want SL to keep growing.
When people CB or wear CBed material none of them think to themselves, "Someone put there dedicated time, effort, lindendollars, and heart into this product". Someone, maybe YOU one day, was on the M-Grid and making that piece by piece and working objectively towards finishing that goal.. To recieve profit for there HARD work and DEDICATED designs they sell them, for however many ls they think its worth. But when someone gets on here, CBes it for personal use or to spread, its downgrading the effor that these individuals put into it. It is a shame that, a lot of us don't think in this same way. A good amount of you do, and I think thats awesome.. But next time you see that cool dog tag, or this sick "new" gas mask.. Think, am I helping out this person by taking there stolen material? No. You are simply killing the business they strive to succeed in. So for all the CBers reading this, think about that, and for all the StolenContent wearers, for those of you whos mom or dad plays.. How would you like it if YOUR parents ITEMS were CBed?
I agree completely with this. Every time I log on I see at least 3 people wearing something that was copybotted. People like wearing nice stuff. Copybotted content stolen from MG people like wearing because it looks nice. Which Hurts us Storeowners who actually spend hours in photoshop or gimp or whatever we use to make clothing. For example I've made fauns in tsl, just the other day my friend told me that there are copybotted fauns from mg spreading around. This cuts off on my profits. We have people explaining this issue to people, but as everyone knows, people like free things, Why spend when you can get it for free right? ITS WRONG. Also The issue of people leaving Teengrid to main grid, Main Grid people who actually spent TIME AND EFFORT Like the People WHO ACTUALLY WORK HARD to make Stuff and sell, once they go on main grid they'll just give it to someone else on maingrid which effects the profits of the maingrid users. Also To people trying to protect tg from copybotters, DONT MENTION COPYBOT PROGRAMS, People who like copybotted stuff will JUST USE THEM. People, If you like free stuff that people spent hard on, Would you just steal from a big store in real life? Same concept. ----
There is real money going around through secondlife! YOU BUY LINDENS WITH REAL MONEY PEOPLE. THIS IS STEALING, This may be a game but real money is exchanged with this. Also Lindens, people do Change IP adresses And make new accounts, no matter how hard you try its going to happen. I agree we need to delete Copybotted content from inventories. Tips on Stopping (little steps at a time if no ones gonna help) If its all perms and its super cool looking, most likely its copybotted. Copybotting is TSL's Black market. Don't touch it. I agree with everyone. It is pretty much getting out of hand. It would have been alright if it was 2 items or so... but now its like over 100. Its pretty crazy. I dont think lindens care, but lets see if they prove me wrong.
I have copybotted and I admit to it, I apologized and deleted everything I had never passed out a thing. I stopped I noticed how it takes over and not a lot of people can stop. They keep going and going and 5 new accounts they don't stop! We need to end this because THIS IS the TG and its ridiculous we need to stop them because these people are thieves. People work so hard to make their product, Time and effort go into it and when someone clicks one stupid button and steals it. Is that fair? I see so many copybotters on the TG and It's getting really annoying because I feel that you cant trust anyone anymore. I myself am not a creator but I have friends that are and when I see them scared and mad and pissed off I get how much it effects them. This needs to be fixed! Copybotters just get Ip-banned "big deal" They literally go and change their IP. No mater how much people are aware and report nothing changes!
I absolutely agree that this needs to stop. We work very hard at making something only to have it stolen. Lindens need to step up to the plate and DO SOMETHING.
Crim Mip - What about The teens who do work hard on their items, and do sell their hard work, When they get to main grid and all their stuff is deleted, what about their hard work? That wouldn't be fair to them for being punished and all hard work is deleted because of the idiots who like copybotting. I say just delete CB's material, and make it so people's items are protected better.
Carly Idlemind- Agreed. The copybotting is getting out of hand, even if it was only two items it wouldnt make it okay, Lindens know about all of these issues, they just don't touch them, I used to see lindens all the time years ago now they kinda stay away from teens like they are 'untouchables' They should do something about it because it will eventually effect their land sales >_> aka money towards them Killie I agree totally with what you just said, when I saw Crim Mip's message I was just like..wow. We want the copybotting to stop not just to benefit Main Grid designers but also TEEN GRID designers. Why should we spend money creating things and buying things, then have out inventory taken away from us.
I don't understand why LL find it so hard to just send out a few Linden employee's to delete all the stolen content and then try to secure the grid from copy bot. Sylver Bu here. YOu guys remember me
Either you liked me or hated me. I work very hard on my avatars. Its a very upsetting thing to log on and know that someone's stolen your work, and handed it out to their friends like candy. its disgusting to watch and frankly I'll have no tolerance. Linden Lab has been blissfully unaware to the problem growing on Teen Grid. I will not stand for their indiscretion. Also, if any of you see my work show up there, Please please please send me links. Contact Ruud Carpool (creator of this ticket) and have him forward me the info. we could t alk face to face as well. I have Steam and Skype. I agree with everyone that CopyBotting is completely destroying our grid. Why spend the money on the TG for something that looks nice if you can CB something from the MG that's 100x better? I'm a store owner and I try every day to make something new to boost my store's sales, but nothing works. It's becoming an issue since my management is having troubles keeping up with the rent each month. Stop the spread of CBed objects. Decline an offer; point out if someone is wearing something botted. LL really needs to get their heads in the game and think of how it's ruining out grid. This is getting a bit ridiculous.
I agree... I'm from the Main grid, I fear for both MG and TG, since if these copybotters leave TG and go into MG, they'll be taking with them their copied products...and that means MG's economy will begin to suffer as well. This needs to be stopped before it gets ANY worse.
I agree 100% my account Grant Neiro was wrongfully banned. A girl saw me wearing a CB item (i didnt know it was CB my friend gave it to me and i thought it looked nice) so she reported me saying i Cb it even though i dont know how to do that. Now i lost all my hard earned money and items no more shop/land. This needs to stop
Down with copybotted matierials!
woowoo. I was not surprised to hear that LL do not do anything about Copybots on the teen grid. LL on the whole has a total lack of balls to take a stand on anything that affcets the users
LL needs to hire some better coders as I am sure there are ways that the current coders for SL cant fo to actulay block copybots from running something akin to an antivirus scanner that recognizes the process of copybotting and kills that account They also need to bring in a zero tollerence policy for copy bots greifer etc and start perma banning them, as too many just jump from one account to another. Bring in some check to stop this, But I will also say dont blame this on free accounts as this stuff was happening long before free accounts opened up. we had greifers long before them too, the free account just made its easier Old fart here, let's make 2010 a good year for the TG. I would like to think of myself as a Native American, one tear dropping down my cheek as something I've known and loved gets destroyed. :-|
A lot of people have asked this question without really expecting an answer, more as a way of complaining: "Why doen't LL DO something about this? Why can't they just send a couple of employees out to delete all the CB'd items from everyone's inventories?"
Well, now I am asking this question with an earnest desire to actually know the answer. Why IS this the case? Contrary to what a lot of residents say when they are venting, I am a firm believer that it is NOT LL's desire or agenda to screw over the SL users. So, on this issue, what are they up against? What would it really take, time- and money- and effort-wise, to identify all the CB'd items in each resident's inventory and to remove them? How often would this have to be done? Lots of other ideas have been suggested. What would it actually require for LL to implement them? LL wants us here, and they want us happy. We are paying their salaries. If they are hesitant to do something, it might behoove us to make an effort to find out why. Also, I know there are in-world defenses against copy-bots, created by residents. I do not know how effective they are, but maybe we should also look to our own talented creators to help combat this issue. I agree. I was Noree Karu, and I quit because every player was wearing CBed stuff. There were no sales, and everything was going downhill. I hope this issue is resolved, It kind of seems like LL doesn't even care... since they never fixed it.
Honestly, i actually have a fear of opening up some sort of stall/shop because of this new issue.
But, i do not think that the Lindens can do this alone, if you think about it. Some teens/Pedos Think they are awesome because they wear/use OS Items. Put your little finger out and say 'Not cool man'. (Or whatever keeps the Dwitek idiots away) In simple terms you kids need to be ratting out all your copybotting buddies that are in the main grid stealing stuff. How? Since you seem to know the details you notify the main grid content creators so they can communicate with LL about not having access to the teen grid needed to DMCA content. Perhaps you can assist the content owner in the DMCA process and learn a few things in the process.
And how exactly do you know the stuff came from the main grid anyway? Xstreetsl.com? Can you correlate it all to xstreet or is there a problem here with more teens in the main grid? The actual solution is pretty clear but LL will have to hire a lot of people to help clean up the adult content problem before the teen grid and all it's assets can be deleted and LL lower the main grid age and thrust you all into MG to start from scratch. Wouldn't take you long to be up and running. Especially if we got a sort of adoption program going where there was incentive to give new teens a spot to get started and have a small store and place to create and have magic boxes. Ann, If only it was that easy to just "rat" out our copybotters, we have tried everything. They simply spread the stuff before anything can be done then when they are banned they make new accounts and do it all over again, like Ruud said the content spreads like fire. Only LL can fix this, you have to be here to understand.
I agree totally with your solution. I am anyway astonished this was never treated as a serious issue by LL. Also the DMCA way is ridiculous and should only be used in cases of doubts. people that can show the meshes of the models for their sculpts and the PSD's of the textures or the BVH of their animations plus an older date on the prims used for the product should be automatically accepted as the rightful creator. Above all if they paid tiers for years for their shopland. I mean if someone with an established shop blames a newbie .... how much research is needed to figure out who copied from whom ? DMCA should only be used if none of the parties can come up with a striking proof. Fast action is very important in such cases.
If any TG'ers need help identifying and combating copybot on their Grid, they can always contact me on my blog, through email, or Plurk. Being an ex-TG'er, I understand what's going on, and am now in contact with many creators on the Main Grid dedicated to fighting copybot on all grids, including the TG.
I hope that Stroker's lawsuit succeeds and creates a better reporting system for coypbotting, or does something to assist the Teens. They really do need it. My name is Coke Supply and I approve this message
 Well, sorry if I sounded harsh, but I'm not the one on the grid with the huge problem. If you all can't police yourselves, and LL doesn't want to put in the effort, then isolate it entirely. NOTHING comes from the teen grid to the main grid. If that means some of you really talented people either have to choose to let it loos on the teen grid knowing you'll have to re-create it on the main grid or wait to turn 18, then so be it. Seriously, how hard is it to keep a copy of your own sculpt textures and such? Maybe it should be treated like the beta grid with no real economy at all. Then other than being able to model something, there's be no incentive to copybot. Perhaps there ought to be no transfer of items allowed, you make it or you don't have it. Finally, if you all know who's going to the adult grid to get these items, report them. LL deletes those accounts in under a minute generally. Kissing the asses of those bringing stuff over from the adult grid is just going to bring really harsh restrictions on all of you ultimately.
Crim, copybotted content has always been on the teengrid but now so many people have it that there is tons, if turned 18 they take it to the MG and spread it out there. and like you would want to recreate all your stuff, I just don't think deleting inventory is fair because there are people that don't have a single copybotted item in their inventory. and if we can't transfer items?!? than how can we get items? are you saying we shouldn't only be locked away from adult friends but from teens to? that is rediculous. And like in the text above says, reporting doesn't work.. I report alot of people wearing copybotted items and than I look in search if they get banned and NEVER EVER got anyone banned. If LL wants us to play, than make us have a economy that is fair, make us be able to transfer items and make us be able to keep our inventory, if they don't want it than they should give us the rules you just named or delete the grid which would be kinda the same.
Wow. This just get's worse and worse, not only do we have to be segregated from the Main Grid, we need to not be able to send stuff to each other and loose our inventory after we transfer. Now that's fair. >_> That's even worse than me saying send a few linden employees out, It's there job too keep Second Life under control, not ours.
If it's copybotted, it should be deleted from anyone who has an illegal copy. If there are so many doing it there that it's beyond controlling with a reasonable amount of attention then yeah,to protect the content creators, I'm perfectly ok with harsh reprocussions up to and including shutting down the teen grid all together. None of you is old enough to have a contract enforced on you so you all have a LOT more responsibility to police yourselves. Yeah, LL should be more on the ball. Start banning for a year at one offense, permanently for a second, and IP banning anyone caught trying to alt around a ban. Do that on the adult grid too actually.
Well we can do something now. Small baby steps to discourage the use of copy bot on teen grid until a solution is ready.
@Crim As a recently transferred Teen, I can tell you that everything comes over with a transferee. LL doesn't take anything out of our inventories, and if we have botted content (I did when I transferred, because I wanted to give it to the real creators to alert them to the problem), it transfers as well. This is a huge problem, and I'm sorry that you can't understand it. Most adults can't.
Teen grid is like the back door to SL. It is not highly reguarded as much as the Main grid, but if it is left open all of SL is at risk. But the best way to stop this to to litterally say to people that Copybotted items are not in fashion. I have a list of Copybotters (I thank Fi Folland's anti copybot script/notecard) which i use as reference as to what i get and what i shouldnt get.
But not everyone does that. By taking no action, LL is just stirring the cauldron of problems that will soon be in MG along with all the botted stuff the teens transfer over with. They may have been putting it off, but things are getting out of control, and if they don't get serious, TG won't be the only one in big trouble.
They even have a selfish reason to fix this--at this rate, people won't buy stuff anymore; designers won't be able to afford land; land renters won't be able to afford sims, and their income from TG will go wayyy down. The general attitude of teens wearing botted stuff is "I like it, I did nothing wrong, so why can't I wear it?" At the very least, LL should try to spread the fact that it IS wrong to wear stolen stufff. |
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Showstopper
Teen grid under threat of Copybotted content, economy gets crushed and Report system doesn't work anymore because of great scale.
