2. account verification used for age verificaton. I'm surprised the card companies and paypal allow this, although you are taking the liability on yourselves because you are payment information that any age can legally obtain and making a decision that the account holder is 18+.

Both of these actions put the true adults on the grid at risk of being compromised or selling to minors. Despite Aristotle's clever sleight of hand with this, your liability is still there. If we in good faith trust in the verification systems you have in place then you are leaving yourself open.

That only content on parcels which are advertised will be required to move to the adult continent seems, well, silly. If you're leaving anybody with "show land in search" unchecked where they are, how is this even coming close to meeting the goal of cleaning up the mainland and giving people more predictability? Anybody will still be able to move in next door to you and build whatever they want, as long as they don't advertise their parcel.

On using payment info to verify/validate somebody, credit card companies are very clear (http://usa.visa.com/merchants/new_acceptance/merchant_responsibility.html) that having a card does not prove they are an adult. Also, Aristotle has, IMO, an unacceptable rejection rate (https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=100014), especially for people outside the U.S..

Also, in general, adult places are high-traffic places. Many residents asked about the performance of the adult content - won't cramming all these high-traffic places into a relatively small number of regions totally destroy performance?? The answer we got from LL was "all these regions will be on class 5 hosts." Gee.. Thanks for that answer, guys.

Also, what's to prevent land speculators from doing to the adult continent what they did to Bay City and Nautilus? Many residents raised the issue that land speculators are going to pour into the new continent once the initial land swaps are complete, buy up all the land and set it back for sale at only 50x the price of mature mainland. Feel free to visit Bay City and Nautilus and see the land prices there if you don't believe this will happen. The response from LL on this one was "land speculation is not illegal." Another great answer - thanks a lot.

Also, the response from residents has been overwhelmingly against this. THE VAST MAJORITY DON'T WANT YOU TO DO THIS and the minority that are in favor think it's cleaning up the mainland (which it isn't) or preventing RL kids from getting into SL (which it isn't).

There are SO many things here in PJIRA that we've been begging for for years. Things that would make residents happy. Things that would make SL a better place. Please stop screwing around with this adult content BS and do something we'd actually be happy with.

http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=314444&page=1&pp=30

LL's goal is good: provide everyone a "predictable" SL experience...that is, to be able to see and access the level of content desired. Their implementation will not accomplish the goal, and in fact will make everyone's SL experience LESS predictable.

One possible alternative (there are many others):

1. Make a new PG continent as well as the new Adult continent under construction.
2. Offer free land swaps to anyone who wants them on a VOLUNTARY basis.
3. Let the market decide. As PG and M parcels on existing mainland become vacant, re-zone them as Mature. As full sims become single-zoned, disable zoning at the parcel level.
4. Zone all future mainland at the continental level. Separate all zones by at least one full water region.
5. Eliminate free accounts, except for a 30 day trial period. After that, everyone pays...and therefore automatically becomes "account verified".
6. ALL new accounts are limited to the PG continent only, until they become verified.
7. Make it more explicit during the payment verification process that the user is agreeing they are 1) over 18, 2) acknowledging that the Service contains adult content and situations, and 3) agrees to the possibility of encountering/experiencing said content and situations.
8. Increase security. Establish user login names separate from avatar names, and tie all alternate accounts to the (unpublished in world) user login name. (There is a separate JIRA for this).
9. Use content definitions in line with US movie rating criteria. PG=PG-13. M=R. Adult=NC-17 or X
10. Apply content definitions to ALL content, not simply "businesses" or "advertised" content. It is too hard to distinguish between a "business", a "public venue" and a "private residence".
11. Implement contextual search. Simply using filtered search terms is too subject to gaming, false positives, and false negatives. (there is a separate JIRA for this, too).

And they don't even need to brass off the majority of their customer base to prevent that unverified access. Those safeguards (age verification, parcel flagging, the huge notice before you ever make an avatar that SL is 18 & over) in place are enough, legally, to protect LL from any liability when children sneak in. Once they have made it clear this is an adult site, with adult only access, and a method of verification of that status (however flawed it might be), it becomes the parents responsibility to keep their children from fraudulent access. Adult sites on the internet have been using this method for years and are still going strong. The idea that children might cam into adult parcels should be irrelevant. They should not be here in the first place.

Causing such major disruption in the name of "controlling adult content" and "making Second Life welcoming for all sensibilities" is unnecessary and harms even those of us who do not have any adult content on our land.

1. This is already an adult grid, Teens have thier own grid, so everything and anything on SL is already understandably ADULT CONTENT. Yes its easy to get on the grid because YOU (LL) opened up enrollment about 2 years ago to gain more residents. It worked for your bottom line and you ignored residents complaints then but now you want to revert back to the same system you left.

2. Land is already marked PG or Mature, the latter being the vast majority of the grid. That in itself should tell you something. I think what will happen if you proceed with this will not only hurt your bottom line but what is left of SL will be extremely lopsided. You will have a massive Mature side where most people will be and land prices high, and an almost completely empty PG part where land will be cheap and almost unsellable.

3. You already have to mark Mature in search to get the full list of places/products available. People that dont want to see these things already have a way of not seeing them. If i go to a store in a sim marked Mature, i can expect to see mature content, only makes sense. If some one thinks by segregating the grid into mature and non mature sections will solve this, im afraid your going to be sadly mistaken.
Why? Because the stores are here to make money, they are going to go where the traffic is. The Traffic will not be in the non mature sections.

4. It is to late to do this now LL. All content is now intermingled together, there will be NO way to untangle it now without a huge upset and most likely to your pocketbook.

5. Last but not least, Who is going to be the moral police? Who is going to make the rules to what is adult and what is not? There have been some very good points made in this department. Its not all about the strip clubs and free sex sims. What about the animation stores, the furniture retailers, clothes vendors, ect......where will you draw the line on what is MATURE? Do you really want to take on the job of second life gods? Alot of cultures have diffrent standards of Mature. Some more then americans, some less...can you determine the delicate balance to make it right for them all??

Bottom line is, i think someone in LL needs to get some common sense and look at all these issues before they decide to make a mistake that could very well cost them what they value most. The dollar bill.

• a BDSM shop is NOT ADULT, it's MATURE.
• but BDSM, Submissive, Slave, Dominatrix, Domme are all ADULT FILTER WORDS
• so you can SELL BDSM stuff, but you can't use the words that describe it
• and if you DO use the words, the parcel MUST be ADULT, even if the goods are MATURE.

WHERE IS THE LOGIC IN THAT? There is NO Direction in this process except off a cliff...

http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=314444

I'm sure we can agree that this whole adult content thing is a bad idea, that really has no place in an adults only world. But I am sure we can also agree that there are some that do not want to, or can not bare to either morally or mental. so there needs to be some way for them to protect themselves. What we need to do here is two fold. 1) Give LL some Concrete numbers that we can refer to to show the percentage of people that do not what the adult content filtering as it stands. They have been unwilling or unable to show numbers for people that want this, so lets get the word out on this one, get everyone you know that feels this is a bad Idea to vote on this... 2) discuss technical alternatives to what they are proposing that will minimize the impact to the majority of residence. there is a VAST brain trust of people in SL with ideas and knowledge that can provide a much better solution to this then the knee jerk effort that has been proposed. All LL needs to do is give this the time it deserves to sort it out.

I am currently designing an in world banner that will give out to anyone the details of this Jira and a link to it so they can offer their alternatives and cast their vote... We need to all spread the word. Just remember for us to be taken seriously we have to keep this technical and restrict our comments of passion one way or the other to the forums.

I still think it's a good solution - let the market decide where it wants to go instead of deciding where you want it to go and trying to force the market to follow. Left to itself, supply & demand will tell LL exactly what their residents want. If they also offered free land swaps to either continent, that'd be a big bonus.

edit: also, since there's no "vote no!" button, I think it's appropriate that people who ARE in favor of this adult content project to go ahead and speak their peace here. As long as it doesn't turn into a comments clown fight (that's what the forums are for) there's nothing wrong with voicing your opinion... Just IMO.

Now I understand if there are Laws are being broken, that lead to the following:
Bestiality, Prostitution, Child pornography, or someone getting hurt by meeting someone for SL in real.

But the Real Problem HERE.
Where are the Adults?
Why aren't they watching their children at home?
If the content in Second Life bugs you leave and chat on yahoo.
Why is it the NAY SAYER always get their way?

1) poll people who want to move away from it
2) send them to ursula with their belongings
3) would be less then the majority on SL so the rest of us would be happy
4) economy booms, less tickets for linden cuz everyone is where they want to be

Why force things on anyone, if some dont like it, then give them a channel to change to, not moving the majority to solitude, and basically running us off a game because our part of the economy would crash and burn....

[12:00] Jack Linden: Tal, the number of people who have told me they are very upset about this is less than 10 (and I get a huge number of IMs). If this is as unpopular as you think then it's not reflected in the support calls, tickets, etc. We know that for some people this isn't a popular move, but that doesn't mean everyone

This quote is from Jack Linden office hours.

Also create a filtering system on objects and textures ie penis, porn images etc. If your viewer is set to exclude those objects or prims they don't show in your viewer. I know thats more work for LL but its going to cost them huge playing the moral police and having to patrol all of SL raiding clubs in a place which is clearly false advertised as "Your World Your Imagination". SL has and always will be a place for fantasies. Whether they are being a club owner, a furry, a game hall owner, a kid again whatever. LL doesnt like the thought people think SL is all about smut or whatever well they can do something positive instead and start supporting content again. This move will make everyone run for the Open Sims and leave SL altogether.

What's stopping from LL saying oh you have a gay club you are resticted to this sim over here. Oh your a furry so you have to go to furry land and never leave. Your a kid oh you can't go anywhere in SL or ban you all together because of some SOB pedafiles in SL. Its a extreme comparison I know but it sounds like in WWII when the US relocated Japanese to camps or in the wild west had native americans march to some chunk of land while we swiped their homelands. Don't bother responding to that comment everyone I know its an extreme example but its just to make a point.

Also in some of the original posts they had some very odd ideas of what would be "Adult" and this isnt just about nudity its about some of the video game violence in SL which is just as insanely to approach. The example of the current mature rating was compared to a rated R movie for violence they said if there was blood and gore (as cartoony as it is in SL at best) then it would be above mature. HELLO Friday the 13th, Nightmare on Elm Street, Halloween, Heck even the season finale of Heroes where Nathan's throat got cut. These are not X movies/TV shows.

LL needs to do a cost analysis of what it will take to hire a dozen more inworld lindens to play moral police versus making a good filtering system and age verification system. Get a good solution that works for all not force people to relocate like their the scum of society.

It will make merchants such as myself (who sell PG, Mature and "Adult" products) loose a lot of money (I'll have to setup two different shops, one on main land, the other on the adult continent, with the resulting increase in advertisement and land costs, and I will loose the synergy resulting from having customers who come to buy non-adult stuff in my shop seeing what else I sell and buying adult stuff as well).
After the web-based search engine fiasco, and after the Open Space sim second fiasco, we really do not need this !!!

I am extremely upset and even right out angry at Linden Lab because of this tragic mistake that will only bring the stable user base down, together with everyone's fun and the merchants revenues.

If LL really wants to segregate something, then they should make a PG continent, move all the corporate/work safe, PG, educational stuff over there and add a setting in the viewer for people choosing so to restrict their own access to PG only stuff.

Linden Lab: it is not too late. Change your mind. Do not let a vocal minority of bigots or prudish people ruin "Our World" (your words !).

Or even better !... Make a poll: ask everyone among the active user base what they think of the change, and act accordingly to the result.

other vitural worlds that i am a part of have done studies that show that only about 10% of their user base ever reads the forums or blogs. the rest of the users are content to wander around blissfully unware of the changes that are happening, till they happen to them, and by then its too late. This makes me think LL must be aware of some of these numbers (that the percentage that reads forums or blogs are soo low) that it might be an attempt to make the changes unknowen to the masses in hopes of them not finding out till its to late. If they really wanted everyone to know they would post the changes on the login screen. By not doing that they are assuring themselves that by the time the avrage user hears of this it will be tolate to change.

LL if your not scared of telling the avrage user of the changes why not tell them? Failuar to tell them sends those of us that read the forums a clear message that you want t sneak this by damned be the avrage users!!!!

I would also like to report that I cannot find any official documentation or discussion on these proposed changes in any language other than english, barring some informative notecards OTHER RESIDENTS have created on their own. SL is far to global and cross cultural for the non-english speakers to not be informed.

Create a content ratings system to prevent offensive content rezzing in sims with the wrong rating

It needs to be done with the ITEMS we make, allowing choices for SIM AND GRID OWNERS to choose what content is in their areas.

Because I've been in SL long enough to know the truth. The corporates who complained and left, and those who didnt come at all, didn't like the fact griefers could come in their private sims and rez flying penises. They were NEVER on the mainland, they were always far away from that chaos. Those who came were private sim owners.

Mainland sales in that time period was inflated terribly in 2006-7 by adcutters, gambling and "SLanking" outfits, which are all gone the way of the dodo birds.

Linden Labs, are you /sure/ that 2-4% figure is correct? Because this is a rather clear-cut record as far as JIRA activity goes.

Edit: In the few minutes it took me to hit save, it rose to 247.

The concerning LL-employees would be better counseled WHEN THEY WOULD start in advance a survey whats the best solution how to handle the protection of minors. Far better if you ask in advance those who are involved with adult contents! Protecting of childs is a important thing but i dont want to loose my abilities when i like to play as adult in SL.

I have a feasible solution for you but - like usual when i tell about good possibilities - i dont state them here or other will steal my ideas or probably make money with it! I dont give away my work and my brain.

IM me when you are really interested in this solution who is apporopriate for all in second life. My solution does affect to people who are living in the european community (EU) or on the european continent (except the former communistic states with Russia, the former Yugoslavia, Turkey and Greece).

Dont merge the grids, SPLIT THEM. Its far simpler but costs a bit more to cut the minors away from the adults. Then make a extra viewer for minors whit them the minors CANT LOG TO THE USUAL GRID.

For those living in the united states who didnt want to make the age verification or didnt want to make a premium account simply handle registrations for us-citizens only like eBay does it; after the registration the account isnt open (means unusable), unless the new customer has received the confirmation letter from LindenLab. Nobody looses their credit card numbers with this method and LL do know WHO is an adult. And a good solution for those who dont want or can make a premium account.

Happy life could be so simple if people could think well.

AND REMEMBER, the client is always the king. And the king is the one who pays your loan. You have to do what your customers do need. That is a old rule of business. LL, stop hurting our feelings and we stop to hurt your eyes

On top of that I don't live in the US and have minimal ID, now Linden labs was at least kind enough to provide me a list of alternitive ID's but they would involve my bak account or bills and birth certificate!

If a small minority wish this change then they can stick to PG rooms there is no need for them to enter Mature SIMs, and as each is clearly labelled in search only an idiot could get them muddled! Now to Linden labs directly, If you want to at least make sure that a little more security is added, then keep age verification optional but add a freaking disclaimer! (Pardon the language) A little pop up that says something along the lines of "I confirm that I am over the legal age to view adult materials in my country/state" Easy peasy and without all the rigamarole or getting everyone fired up!

Teen Grid does not have to be merged - they can buy PG rated content from main grid, as well as sell theirs back
Events can choose the ratings on the content that can be worn on avs or rezzed to reduce griefing
Standalone Second Life grids run by corporations and educational institutions can buy the work of content creators all over SL
Standalone Second Life grids can have Second Lifers visit their grids and take a limited subset of their content with them - so they rez with hair, skin, clothes that they prefer to wear

It will make for an extended Second Life that allows many grids to function separately but with links to the others, without having to give up their individual characters

There will be no need for any adult or pg grids.

Minors and PGers are in the minority. Let THEM have a segregated continent, with sweet cupcakes and butterflies. Meanwhile the rest of us will continue on with normal, healthy interaction.

And besides that, here's an issue. Is LL going to pay me for my land? Will they reimburse me for my tier and purchase price? Perhaps do a straight trade to land on Ursula? Will they build up my traffic again where it is today?

Let's see, LL, how badly do you want this? Are you wlling to go to court about it? Because I am.

Or create a PG area for those who like to avoid adult content, Forcing everyone to relocate is just enraging the comunity.

Many residents have raised concerns in the forum where LL asked us to raise concerns. Some of these have been answered with answers that absolutely contradict the published standards on this. So either the standards are wrong, or the Linden Labs employee who posted them was. Blondin has been quite consistent in the forum thread about the interpretation of the guidelines, but there is a large amount of worry that this will not, in the end, turn out to be "official" and that the answers we were given may turn out not to be the way this is going to be implemented.

The original goal was to move extreme sex and violence, but now we find that the Gorean community, amongst others, whether they engage in extreme sex and violence or not, will have to move completely.

We hear that the reason for a separate continent was so that people on PG or Mature sims couldn't cam into Adult sims, and yet now we hear that on private estates, Adult and PG can sit in adjacent sims, allowing people to cam around all they want. If the camming wasn't the issue, then why do we need a separate continent for mainland? It just sounds cobbled together and inconsistent.

Statements have also been made that the only announcements about this will be on the BLOG and in the SL Forum. Presumably only in English. If this is continued, then only a very small portion of SL residents are even going to know about the changes, let alone have time to make plans for their future SL activities.

The issues surrounding using keywords to determine what is and isn't Adult is, frankly, full of holes - the JIRA for implementing a contextual search sounds much more workable.

Frankly, from this resident's perspective, the current state of affairs is a shambles, and we're not seeing much evidence of it becoming clearer within a timeframe for you to roll this out in June. If you try to do this, you will be causing a massive in-world disruption, not just to Adult content providers, but to most residents, as those affected try to work out what is going on. I suggest you take a step back, as this proposal says, and re-evaluate and consolidate. Then develop a roadmap that is shared with ALL residents (not just those that read the forum or BLOG).

The kind of Age Verifying is not really working because every Teenager can take the Identity Card from Mother of Father and write down the needed information on SL's website.
This is the Same with Bills from Phone-Companies and so on. No normal Parent will put Documents like this into a tresor to protect them against thiefs.
No one would know if the person behind the avi is really an adult or not because this trouble.

First Linden Lab should find a solution for a working age verification like the Post-Ident. Over here in Germany the system of the Post-Ident is very secure.
You can open Bank-Accounts over internet and the Postman comes to your Door take your Identity-Card, write down the needed Informations and you must sign his formular after that. If you have done this he sign the formular too and send the formular to the Bank where you opened the Account.
First if they got this Formular you get all the things you need to work with your Bank-Account.

But in a world where Kids are not allowed, what we need there PG-rated areas and mature-rated areas and the new upcoming porn-rated area?
It is silly enough to let run 2 Life grids (one for Teens and one for adults) and then rate the adult-grid in 2 or 3 zones.

For me it will be Time to left SL after my Paid-Period is over and there is the way to Jump between sl and opensim so that i dont lose all my inventory.
Over the lost months i lost enough real money because they found the ultimate stable Servercode and as they put this Super-Server to the life grid the whole grid gone down for other 8 hours last year and there was lost inventory with a worth of over 200 USD.

Then lost autumn, i sold all my land and hat to pay for this land next 2 months too because the Groupland database dont deleted the sold land from my group.

Enough is Enough

On top of this, a few years ago Linden Lab had their user database (AND financial information) breached by Russian hackers - I know this because I was ONE of the people affected and I found a $1,000 charge to my Paypal account because of Linden Lab's IDIOCY.

Do you honestly want a company like this having access to your PERSONAL information ?

And lastly, user experiences with Aristotle has been LESS THAN GLOWING.

When I filed a complaint on the mainland I was in being too laggy. A customer service employee tried to get me to "buy an island". NOT ALL OF US HAVE A TON OF MONEY TO WASTE ON AN ISLAND!!!!

So, I went and bought some land on the first mainland I had my very first parcel on. I was very pleased with it and very happy... Until... I hear about Taser suing LL's over a taser object being sold in SL in an adult shop. A while later comes this hasty choice to move all adult content away.

This is not going to keep companies from finding copyright infringement. If nothing else this is going to make companies even more determined to look for it. Especially if it's elite and hidden without being verified. Taser would only be the beginning. What about when Disney comes in and sees something of theirs up? They won't care if it's not in an adult area or if they are. They're only going to care that it's in a game that isn't theirs. Same with other companies. They aren't going to care whether it's in an adult world or not. Taser I don't think cared too much, but that was part of their complaint. I believe however even if it was in a weapons shop they would have complained it was near guns or something similar.

None of this matters, though, because LL's only listens to those that pay the big bills. Or so they believe... They listened about the OpenSpace and Homestead regions because this makes them a lot of money...

The big picture is... Adult merchants probably make up a bigger bulk of the SL economy then landowners. Why? Because sex sells. You alienate your adult merchants and force them to move or leave and you are cutting yourself deep on a lot of business. Probably less then 2% of all the SL accounts do not own a penis or vagina. Probably the same amount (less then 2%) don't own adult themed poseballs or a freebie MLP with animations.

You see... SL is a great meeting platform, but businesses even if you make it all PG and G aren't going to take it very seriously because:

1. They aren't going to own or venture in to mainland. They are if anything going to own their own islands and stay on them.
2. They aren't going to buy an island that isn't on their own VPN. (Any self respecting company wants to control it's own network... Not leave it in the hands of someone else.)
3. There is no SECURED chat... If someone is having a mic meeting someone almost a sim away could detach their camera and listen from camera position and then just pan in to the meeting and listen to everything.
4. Big companies are more focused on camera phones and web cams to have meetings. Until SL goes completely VR there's no real place for meetings.
5. No company wants to have to have someone download 3rd party software and then go through a tutorial, find a way off the help island, and then try to find the way to the place they wanted to go in the first place. It's too round about and companies want to send people there immediately. Point... Click... Companies and businesses know that people have very short attention spans. If you don't get someone's attention in the first 5 seconds of them arriving at your site... You've lost them.

Sorry, but this adult content stuff... It's just too much for all of us... We've all been through moves... I'm sure.

BUT!!!!!!!

Why move adult content?! Why not just like someone said before... Make the new regions G-rated and anyone who is not verified cannot go to the rest of SL until they are. Sadly making adult merchants move is a poor choice for everyone.

Please don't do this, LL.

They removed gambling, and I understand that. It made sense to, because of the abundance of issues with the law. Here, however, this makes little to no sense whatsoever, other than as a token gesture to look good for an IPO.

If they truly have an issue with children seeing adult content, there are a variety of ways to make certain that children arent exposed to such. This plan does nothing.

I think many of us agree that the goals are indeed important - it's just the approach that is horrendous. It really seems the 6000+ posts on the blog have been completely ignored.

Make a G-rated area, let business people work there, and let the rest of us enjoy SL as it grew.

If there were an adult SL to log into, following some level of verification then what's the problem?

Establish a second SL for those not interested in mature activities.

Teen Grid should stay as is and better verification placed on it to exclude
Adults from it with the exception of LL verified Adult Mentors.

"Adult" verification is going to be foggy at best.

The holes in this messed up plan of yours keep growing larger and larger by the day.

Use all the gained know-how to create a PG land instead where NOTHING that creates sex or violence can be rezzed it is the only workable and logical solution even if 'not planned'.

This change is actually going to make SL LESS predictable. People will be hiding and masking their adult content so as not to get flagged. This will be LESS predictable.

Why not allow parcel owners to flag their content as Adult and then when a resident walks or TPs into that parcel - a message pops up informing them that this is indeed Adult content and asking them if they wish to continue??? This way there is no surprises and would create predictablity because no one would feel the need to hide or mask their content.

Filtering keywords <> more predictable. When someone enters BDSM into search - I am pretty sure that is what they are looking for

There are alot of businesses currently that sell adult content and this is far more then 3 or 4% as you seem to think it is. Many places are Adult content, many people are adult content and many of the things people enjoy doing here are adult content. Considerably there is little reason for this change if it is not to protect minors. No one i have met or known aside from maybe one person has thought this was a good idea.

Get rid of the verification and the plan makes more sense. keep it you ruin alot of businesses and limit their customers and alot of other things. Many people have no payment info on file and buy L$ from elsewhere. The verification required is the biggest slip up here. You Deny this being about protecting minors.... Then why in the world are you requiring people to prove they are 18? That means that you are out to protect minors.

The technical issue with verification is that even if one is an adult they may not always have a way to verify, they may not be able to pay or have payment info on file or payment info used or any of these things, and providing personal data may be illegal for them, or they may not have a credit card. Movement of content is plausible if done right however you will find there is alot less "PG only" content to move then there is mature and it would cost you alot less money to implement that and you would lose far less business they you will if you implement the plan as is.

Do away with verifcation and allow proper search filters and look at proper movements if you are going to move, but reexamine the plan you have for this and make these changes or dont do it. You will ruin far to many businesses if you do this. You will lose money. This is a very very poor business decision without these changes i have listed. You wont gain more big business in fact you will likely attract less as they fear you're customer base will leave at any moment. For training they may turn to Open Source projects if you dont tread lightly.

Remember this Linden Labs, We are your customers, You make to many moves against us and we will speak with our wallets and credit cards, We do not want this, Your customers do not want this, If you value us at all you will listen and not do this. I am a verified resident, I have been in Second Life Since June 2005, I am a Mentor.

That being the case, I am updating this to Critical. This cannot be allowed to proceed.

I used to care deeply about this world and wanted the best but after all of the stunts LL has pulled it has put a very bad taste in my mouth. My 3rd rez day was yesterday and I couldn't really have cared less. It is sad that LL wants us to continuing paying but for diminishing results.

• • • • • • • Linden Labs should work on quality of service instead of being hell bent on destroying the economy. How many crashes do you think it would take before the average World of Warcraft player would be protesting outside Blizzard's building? Why is it we just take the BAD BAD BAD service with Linden Labs for granted ??? *******

Honestly, I do not see a future for this world anymore, which is why I have closed all of my stores and working on going back to a free account. I want to have my money separated from this world so that when it tanks, I won't be out anything.

p.s. The voting system is a bit confusing... maybe next time have it easier to understand which one is for and against. Thank you. =)

Reopened. Please vote!

Should you have a comment about a or to offer a technical solution you may add that by clicking on Comment. Please remember this is a technical discussion area ONLY. All other comments should be directed to the forums.

I am asking that you pass a link to this Jira to every resident, Group, and Friend you have in SL. We need to get the word out. LL has not once been able to produce any Statistics about who actually wants Adult Content Filtering... But We can & Must show them exactly what Percentage DON"T WANT IT... Comments and Suggestions are good, but VOTES are the Key here.

This Jira has been here a little over 24 hours... and already has the second highest vote count in this category. Second only to the post about open space. But we need to keep going until it is the top vote getter of ANY category.

And as for registration and verification it only works if people don't want to hide who they are, which some undoubtedly will and then as a consequence they will find a way to do that.

Thats impossible. Advanced menus and disable camera restraints. That can get you anywhere if you know how to cam around. heck, even alt/zoom camming can do that. The only way to do it is if they removed the ability to disable camera restraints and zoom cam.

I have proposed an alternative solution which is content flagging - the search is really ok as it is, all they need to do is filter out the extreme hard core content to adult as they proposed initially which was fine. Nobody searches for "mature" content - they search for "hair" or they search for "skin" or they search for "victorian"

And what you might expect also, is that people are infinitely more creative than LL can imagine. Because that hair might be an UPdo - PG, that skin will have nipples and genitals - which is definitely mature, and might be adult (we arent sure yet, because nobody will say), and the Victorian might be anything from a big ball gown (PG), a superdetailed vintage rifle (violence), or a horse flogger (can be considered BDSM, possibly considered adult yet perfectly innocent and PG when used on a PRIM HORSE.).

Trying to separate out PG and Mature in search will destroy businesses which are by and large mixes of PG and Mature content, with the sprinkling of Adult here and there. Every major seller of avatar accessories has a mix of Mature and PG content. They CANNOT flag their land PG and Mature at the SAME TIME, and they cannot flag ADULT either simply due to a few products that might be too mature.

I am 100 percent against the current implementation, and believe strongly that the only real solution is to allow those users who wish to have PG only content have access to filtered content that prevents the rezzing of unscreened and adult content on their sims.

ON THEIR SIMS, as their own personal choices.

Vote for SVC-4181 - which needs no adult verification, it will put the ratings at the discretion of the content sellers just like the movie industry does when it rates its films. Ratings should be devised so that they SELL MORE content, not STOP SELLING content!

Now I have always considered that this was a community built by BDSM people, hence I joined and have many hours of having fun and learning new things, and making great friends.

Now it seems we have the Vannilla side of life trying to take over Second Life, and sticking labels on us, and now trying to herd us into a kind of ghetto area in Second Life.

The people behind Linden who run second life trying to kill it off by steam rolling these changes in place, because I was always told that the Economic's off Second Life, I mean the money that is brought into the second life, was about 75% of this money is brought in by BDSM community.

If these changes come into place and all adult content is in one area I dread to think the cost of land, even today the cost is TOO HIGH.

The Future of Second Life well all I hear is a single ringing in the distance and its getting louder THE Funeral DEATH bell

Second Life R.I.P.

Note also that there are many recent reports that these problems are not limited to IDV, and the same in-world issues appear to affect access restriction to the Adult safe infohub based on payment info, with some unverified NPIOF having access and some PIOF / PIU being denied access (this in addition to the IDV problems already identified in those longstanding jiras). Also, be aware that this is extraordinarily difficult to test because an account may succeed for all tests--until it reaches one parcel that it shouldn't be able to access but can, or should but can't.

The system that is being proposed now, both the changes in Adult and the changes in PG, seems deliberately designed to punish the moderate middle. If it is true that PG is being changed to G in anticipation of merging the adult and teen grids, or in anticipation of letting in "families," I must object, as I do not want to inadvertently interact with any minors in SL.

Without clear explanations, it's impossible to know how to comply with the rules and impossible to know how to plan. This is the worst part of the new plan. Even a flawed plan could be coped with, if it was clearly understood. Otherwise we're all just sitting ducks to lose years of work to AR griefing and zealots.

The subculture that is getting picked on this time is Goreans, but I wonder who will be next. I don't believe the mainstream is ever going to join SL as long as the new resident learning curve is so steep. I don't think a level of sanitization of SL that is sufficient to permit minors to enter, can be achieved while content creation is a free-for-all, and without freely created content SL can't exist.

Second Life is already an adult world and should remain so. I voted in support of MISC-2727.

Secondly, the standards set by the Lindens are very vague to the point of absurdity. Without even knowing what PG, Mature and Adult really mean on a specfic basis, we can't have any kind of discussion, really: you say "trust us, we'll relocated everyone and reimburse them for their land and we know this system won't be gamed, et al." but we can't tell for ourselves if such is the case. Are nude skin vendors okay? If I had a store in a PG zone and someone rezzed sex balls on it and proceeded to do the nasty, what happens if I get ARed? Are shops that sell manacles used for BDSM but show no nudity mature or adult ? This cannot be fly-by-night policy, and yet that seems to be the case....

Where do the Lindens, or anyone else for that matter, get their information from?

If it is only from how many people they have talked to or how many forum posts they have read or how many IMs they have received, then I think that number is seriously flawed.

I believe there is a vast majority of residents who do not read the forums, do not know about Office Hours, and who won't know that any changes are coming.

It takes a very dedicated person to follow the official SL forum and catch up with all the new posts, or any forum for that matter. Office Hours are not advertised in Events search usually, so it takes a very interested person to find that information in the Wiki. And how many residents actually turn up to OHs? Are they the majority of residents? Also, it takes a brave person to IM a Linden and not cower in fear and awe at their power

I suggest that before anyone quotes how many people are in favour or not, they should get their statistics right.

In the past, when opening the SL viewer, there have been short pop-up questionnaires asking questions such as "Do you think your SL experience been getting better or worse?"

I suggest LL prepare a pop-up such as that to ask the question "Are you in favour or against the proposed changes regarding adult content?" so that every resident who logs in answers.

Then we can start talking about how many are in favour or against, and do what the majority wants.

There is already a PG land, its called Teen Grid, and if anyone on SL is underage they shouldn't be here in the 1st place, and if they are of legal age and object, them I'm sorry its tough - here are things I don't like, but I am mature enough not to search for them or visit them and complain about it.

If LL are so hell bent on ghettoising adult/mature areas and on disneyfication then they should so it by natural wastage, and a s a mature area is abandoned then mark it as PG

My L$52000 per months worth. . .

I am dismayed at the failure to advise these changes to all users, of all nationalities, in their language - this is inequitable.

I am dismayed about the many people still buying land in ignorance of the changes and incurring significant expenses on what will ultimately be 'adult' environments - this is unethical.

I am dismayed at the general contempt with which residents - paying customers all in one way or another - are being treated - this is unconscionable.

maybe a BDSM SL would be a good idea

the Age Verification thing could make SL a ghosttown...

especially the way they are going about it

I suggest downgrading from premium account status in addition to voting here.
If the motivation is financial let them feel a little pinch beginning now.

Stop making it so compligated.

Make a PG/Worksafe part and one Mature/Adult part. Either you need/want to stay safe and in a clean enviromnent (Hello to RL business, education and all the stull that LL is dreaming/targeting about lately) OR you like the original motto of "Your world, your imagination" (that hasn't been valid for the last year or so really) which would be the mature/adult area i.e. the rest of the SL grid.

As for 18+ age verification, I'm voting for Real life date of birth (no SSN, just DOB thank you!) on the account page and a checkbox to check signing that info as truthly given. That should cover up the behind rather good in case of a dispute about age. (And can as suggested be used for accesscontrol to the "grown up" part of the grid.)

It's getting way too many levels now, with too complicated ways of verification. Please do not make this jungle.

All of them, because of the vagueness and honestly conflicting messages LL has been putting out would probally end up as adult sims.

ALL of the financial support I have shown to LL over my past 3 year membership has seen LL go from one poor decision to another, and all the while costing us, the users and creators, our hard earned $ and time.

Some of LL's bad decisions already have included:
1) Imbalance in tier fees between Mainland and Private islands to the tune of an extra $100 a month per sim.
2) Lack of refunds when THEY changed the pricing schemes on OS sims AFTER encouraging people to go ahead and buy more.
3) Degrading sim and grid preformance on a continual basis. Each release keeps making the grid slower and slower, while traffic numbers have remained constant or dropping.
4) The Adult Policy confusion now being thrust upon us.

If LL really wanted to grow and reach out to other companies and opportunities, the first thing they should do is reward all of the loyal PAYING customers who have spent time and money to build what is currently on the grid. Also, Since SL is SUPPOSED to be an 18+ enviroment in the first place, why are we now trying to segregate the grid even more? If we have people who are under 18 on the grid, it is not OUR job to monitor what someone ELSES kids are doing. ITS THE JOB FOR THEIR PARENTS! The MATURE and PG ststem works fine for keeping those activites that people dont want to see seperated from those that wouldn't offend most people in the first place.

If LL is SO worried about it, then why not have the sim owners setup a telehub with a content warning sign, and make it the policy that by passing the sign, or by accepting a direct teleport from someone in the sim, that is it "avatar beware" and leave it at that?

I have a barrier like that setup on my public access sim, and so far, I have not had anyone say to me or my staff "oh my gosh, I thought this was something else. you people are sick."

Anyway, thats my opinion on this. Since when did we go from accepting personal responcibility to blaming everyone else for something we or our families did?

LL is not being smart in a business sense. The PAYING MAJORITY OF USERS DO NOT WANT THIS AND MOST WILL LEAVE IF THIS CONTINUES but they continue to push it through.

Wise up, LL, before you end up with a whole lot of empty space.

While I actually welcome stronger measures to age-verify, to me this seems to be the only real issue that needs adjustment. Geographic changes and changing adult definitions, etc etc are endless traps from which no one will escape without misery. Even LMs alone are precious when you have as much marketing as I do. (I am a Goddess who markets).
People are complaining about being forced to move and land values and an adult 'ghetto'. I agree an Adult Continent would be a travesty at this point. 2-4% seems impossible to me, also, as a realistic assessment of real Adult Content. The entire strategy will make some businesses suffer a little, and many suffer a lot...and many close.
Speaking as someone who is here for fun as well as Business as well as Her own Mission, the impression I am left with is that Respect For All Of Our Hard Work is being thrown out the window. I doubt anyone could calculate how much value my (or others') commitment has been to date with regards to my presence here. I am greatly saddened. Greater minds must be tapped to resolve these issues than are being used now, it seems. No good can come of rash action.
I really hope to be involved in this ongoing discussion in as deep a manner as possible, as a very active member in the Femdom Community and as one with connections to many corners that will be affected by rash decisions. - GINA

I for one am already manning the escape vessel before this mothership turns into a daycare center. Ive subscribed to several alternatives to see if theres a way out of this patronising debacle.. I wont invest money in a virtual world ruled by kids, and where people have to go through a burocrat gauntlet just to let them be an adult.

Secondlife will be yesterdays utopia if they push this through..

Here's a 1000 more Jack.

The idea of turning an enjoyable world upside down in some vain attempt to control the few who should not be here and cover the eyes of those who do not wish to enjoy the adult content areas is backwards. I am a fully paying member of SL and have been for a long time. The idea that paying for membership is proof of age is a joke. I have had a credit card since I was 16. For the few youth that come here it is not for Linden labs to control them. That is their parents' job.

If you wish to create G and PG rated areas that is fine. Make it a selection that the individual makes for their avatar to limit themselves to these areas. Not the world to change to shield them for others enjoyment of SL.

People will vote if you take away the ease and enjoyment of SL, they will vote by going somewhere else and SL will dry up and blow away like many others who have tried to do this over the years.

Please let Second Life users open the Preferences box and choose their PG/Mature/Adult parcel-entry experience as easily as they control their audio, video, chat, graphics and so many other experiences.

If Linden Labs could simply make one (1) change in the viewer's Preferences box, there would be no need for all of the difficulty in moving people and businesses to a different continent. My suggestion is only about access to land based on personal preferences, and does not address search or classified issues.

How this could be accomplished:

1. In the Preferences, in the General Tab, please add one line with three (3) check boxes; see the below example (a _ represents a check box):

Parcel Entry: _PG _Mature _Adult

1a) There is room for brief definitions, if Linden Labs would prefer:

Parcel Entry: _PG _ Mature (some adult content) _ Adult (explicit adult content)

2. At the same time, create a simple message to pop-up on a blank screen (i.e. same as the teleport screen) that says "You have chosen not to enter this parcel."

3. That's it. Now, each Second Life user is able to exercise control over their Second Life experience in a very simple manner.

4. Each Second Life user will still need to file Abuse Reports when they encounter someone abusing the land rating system, i.e. creating Adult content in a PG or Mature area. This is exactly what is already expected of users, and will still be expected of users after any Adult content changes are in place, no matter what those changes are.

I am not aware of how this change would be implemented on Linden Labs' side, only that some coding would be involved that reads how a parcel is marked before allowing the user to enter it; but I do know that this coding would be extremely similar to the options land owners are able to select in their land's "Access" tab.

PLEASE NOTE: Under Linden Labs' current plans (adult continent, etc.) there is no way for a Second Life user to choose to not enter PG land. My above suggested fix would have the added benefit of allowing Second Life users to truly enjoy their own customized experience as follows:

1) Those who choose a Mature or Adult experience would easily be able to choose to protect those who have chosen a PG experience, so that they never accidentally enter a PG parcel - this benefits both Second Life users and Linden Labs' interests in that there could be no accidental non-PG entry into PG areas (nudity, adult attachments, weapons, etc.). For example, if I choose only the Mature and Adult checkboxes, and I have searched for a clothing store or a clothing sale, and it is on PG land, I will get the "You have chosen not to enter this parcel" reminder, so I can then change my avatar and its attachments to match PG guidelines, and not offend anyone.

Please take all of the above into serious consideration. I believe it is the best and easiest solution possible for everyone involved, from the highest corporation or educational institution to the most casual free user. I also believe it is the best two-way free flow of choice for the entire Second Life community to work together in ways to protect each user's viewing and usage preferences.

Sincerely,
Sadako Shikami
(RL name and phone number added to personal emails)

(1) Give more time for the transition to "Ursula" mainland continent. The current plan is 60 days from release of 1.23 client, with a 9 day move window for any given parcel. This should be more like a 6 month transition, with 30 day move window per parcel, or scaled per size of parcel (big parcels, more prims, more to set up and move.)

(2) First come, first served plan is inefficient as far as how the Adult sims will be filled. It should be "largest first" per sim, filling in remaining space by size. Otherwise a small parcel grabbing first location will block, later, larger parcels.

(3) Untangle PG and Mature sims. Build a block of PG sims together, and as sims are returned/emptied, rerate them to be consistent with their neighbors. Allow requests of all or close to all landowners within a mainland sim to rerate the sim consistent with its neighbors. The goal is to eventually have blocks of all mature and all PG together, rather than a random mix

(4) Make much more clear on Registration that some parts of SL contain Adult Material, right now its very hidden to new people creating an account.

Maybe you want an ability within the suggested JIRA I made – SVC-4181 – to bar adult AND/OR unrated content being rezzed on your land, (this distinction is important between adult and unrated content - because adult sims can be just as easily griefed by unrated user generated content as any other, and deserve to rate their content to avoid the unrated as more rated content builds up over time) but it will not help in a sim that is rated PG or Mature to have parcels with Adult ratings. You just can't do it on a private sim, it is UNworkable.

SVC-4181 . its the only way to deal with the real problem. Adult and/or griefing content rezzed in sims against the owners wishes.

A comment from LL would be great about now. At least acknowledging that the feedback you've gotten from residents, both here and in the forums where you asked us to comment, has been pretty one-sided against this plan. What I've seen from various Lindens seems to say that LL thinks this project is all good and everybody's happy with it - what residents see is closer to "overwhelming opposition to it."

Not acknowledging this feedback sounds a lot like "we couldn't care less if everybody hates this plan."

#1 Don't do this insanity

#2 Designate Ursula the 'PG' Continent

#3 Mass Relocate all PG Sims to Ursula, names and all, to Ursula (just move the sim, would LM's still work if the name remains the same?) That way all PG is together without causing any heavylifting and rebuilding.

#4 the empty sims that are in Ursula that get displaced when the PG's are moved in, become new 'mature' mainland.

#5 go ahead and put the maturity level in the viewer, add one for 'adult'

#6 add 'adult flagging' for sims

#7 add a 'gatekeeper' for sim crossings/TP

On SLX if you want to look at 'mature/adult' items.. you get this...

WARNING/DISCLAIMER

You are about to be redirected to Xstreet SL Uncensored.

The adult content within this site is intended for ADULTS ONLY (18 years of age or older). If you are not of legal age or do not wish to view materials of a sexually-explicit nature or you are offended by transgender images or topics, then please click CANCEL now. If you continue on to view any adult content within this website, you are stating the following:

1. I am an adult over the age of 18 years.

2. I will not allow anyone under the legal age, stated in 1. above, to access any of materials labeled Mature.

3. I am viewing mature content of this site willingly and I understand that by doing so I will be exposed to materials of a sexually-explicit nature.

(ENTER/CANCEL)

and it's not 'sticky'.. every time you go to SLX you have to do that if you want to enable mature items..

so... explain to me in simple terms WHY IF YOU TRY TO CROSS/TP INTO AN "ADULT SIM" the viewer can't....

WARNING/DISCLAIMER

You are about to be enter a region that has been declared ADULT.

The adult content within this region is intended for ADULTS ONLY (18 years of age or older). If you are not of legal age or do not wish to view materials of a sexually-explicit nature or you are offended by transgender images or topics, then please click CANCEL now and your teleport will be canceled and you will be returned to your starting point. If you continue on to view any adult content within this region, you are stating the following:

1. I am an adult over the age of 18 years.

2. I will not allow anyone under the legal age, stated in 1. above, to access any of materials labeled Mature.

3. I am viewing mature content of this sim willingly and I understand that by doing so I will be exposed to materials of a sexually-explicit nature.

(ENTER/CANCEL)

ENTER = complete TP in
CANCEL = cancel TP and stay where you were.

#9 Done.

PARENTS:
Parents obviously cant watch their children 24/7 but what they can do is installing a family filter software. Parents know about porn on the internet, parents know about violence on the internet. First question a responsible parent asks is how I prevent my child from seeing that. Those that doesn't ask this question you can see on Jerry Springer fighting over a piece of cake and flashing their privates.

SUGGESTION:
Instead of castrating and amputating Adults and disrespecting their free will and possible rights, i'd rather see the viewer scanning for Family Filter Software which then decides if the avatar is allowed to enter particular parcels, LL could still separate into 3 groups (PG/MATURE/ADULT) but the parents could decide what they want their children to see and what they want to see themselves.
If the child of an SL User is logging in with the parents account this whole hokus pokus becomes worthless, it only makes sense when the parent can block particular things during the times when he/she is not able to watch the child.

Minor Protection happens at home, provide the tools and parents will use them if they care, there is no reason to kill the residents without stable income, with bad credit etc...
We are in the early stage of a global financial crisis with a very likely collapse, these changes made at this time is stupid! (sorry no nicer word available for that)

Comment Re: Jack Linden
Well, that Jack Linden quote basically states the problem, LL is not used to Second Life, they don't act in it, they have gizmos we don't have but they don't do what the game title implies... living a second life.
There have been several occasions where we were able to witness their lack of in World knowledge, and while they certainly see the positive side, they can't even imagine the downside. They think we all have tin foil hats on and they know all the answers, how could they.

I acknowledge that changes has been requested by a small percentage of users. Take that seriously and do something about it. But DO NOT enforce your ridiculous suggestions on the rest of us.
It's very easy: If a number of people wants to avoid adult content, respect them and create a place where they can avoid it. How can that be so hard? Why punish the rest of the Second Life community for it? We are happy with the rules as they are, we have not requested these changes. We do not want you to spend money (OUR money, as it happens to be) and valuable time on badly thought out and technically complicated solutions. Concentrate on enhancing the SL experience, not limiting it.
Create a "Non-adult" continent, let the minority who has issues with the rest of the Grid live there. It's that easy.

Start with the simple stuff. Actively police the welcome areas. The rest of the grid can survive being handled on responding to ARs only but you need to take frequent looks at the welcome areas yourselves because thats where the first exposure to inappropriate content happens for most new residents and first impressions last.

Find some way to detect parcel and group descriptions, classifieds and items listed in search that do not have the "contains mature content" flag set but should have. Perhaps you could use a heuristic algorithm to tally word matches between descriptions that DO have the flag set and those that do not, the ones that do not but seem to the program to be worded rather like the ones that do could be automatically flagged for review. That way those of us like myself who do follow the rules and flag our content, parcels and groups in accordance with the current TOS are automatically contributing to weeding out the rule-breakers that give all of us the bad rep that resulted in this debacle.

Once you've got the CURRENT rules being properly enforced, let it shake out for a while and take a new look at the whole issue. I predict you'd find the majority of your goals in this project are already accomplished. At that point I suspect the idea of a separate PG region would become much more viable and would - to use Blondins phrase on the forums - "meet the criteria of the project" and you can breathe a huge sigh of relief and just do that, making all of this ill-will go away.

While I'm of course a frequenter of strictly adult areas, stores, and clubs, my primary concern is how this will effect the roleplaying community.

I can see it now. The CoLA chain deserted because not everyone has payment info on file, because half of american players and the majority of international players can't get the retarded age verification to work.

I've been age verified since it was implemented, i've had payment info used since my first week in SL, and half the time I sitll get red tape trying to enter parcels where one of the two is restricted.

Personally I do not trust the promises made by LL in their AGE VERIFICATION process that my RL identifying credentials will be used as stated or protected. For a few reasons:

1) LL has proven on many ocassions their SHORT-SIGHTED, KNEE-JERK, POLICY FLIP-FLOPPING incidents. So even if their current statements on their intended use of our personal RL identifying credentials is accurate, they simply cannot be trusted since they have proven that they could change their minds on how their want to use the information they have on me.

2) There is no proven autdiable evidence provided by LL to us residents on the actual process on how the age validation operates. If they are so committed to protecting our privacy and they have NO intent of keeping ANY of our RL identifying credentials, then offer to all residents an INDEPENDANTLY PRODUCED AUDIT REPORT on the process used to validate our age and no record our credentials for later use. Appoint a 3rd party auditor to the process that Residents can go to get assurance that LL's claims are true and will remain true.

3) If, as LL states on their Age validation page and FAQ page, LL will never record and maintain on file any of our RL identification information, then how do they explain this sentence in their FAQ:

"Thus, this information will be used only for the purpose of verifying that a Resident is an adult, and will not be transferred or retained unless that is required by law, i.e., pursuant to a law enforcement investigation and proper legal process."

DID ANYONE TAKE NOTE OF THE ONE WORD IN THIS PROMISE? "UNLESS"

So this implies that there are exceptions to them NOT RETAINING our information for the sole purpose of age validation. This is the main reason I cant trust LL with my credentials.

4) If Age Validate is their sole purpose then why do they not completely out-source this function to many of the well established online age validation services used by many online sites like adult websites. The vast majority of these other sites have completely outsourced their age validation. When does LL feel they need to get in the way of this UNLESS they have other reasons for our data.

5) Second Life is a Virtual Reality GAME!

So, since there is CLEAR reasons not to trust LL in the handling of my personal identification credentials, I fundamentally cannot validate my age with SL and so I will now become a SECOND CLASS SECOND LIFE citizen. And why?? because a small population of emotionally sensitive and immature adult residents want big brother LL to wrap a shield around anywhere in SL they care to wander.

It because of this lack of trust of LL that I have never become a PREMIUM ACCOUNT. And why I dont want to Age Verify with LL.

Sad days coming up for residents like me that will be running into sim after sim that will not allow me to enter clubs and sims that many of my Friends are on.

I believe that taking steps to restrict or censor what is suppose to be a virtual fantasy environment takes away from the entire experience for everyone. Most new people come to SL to try it out. If what they see in the first few minutes does not meet their expectations, they will just leave, and never come back. The last thing they will do is go through bureaucratic hoops to prove their age in order to access content they aren't even sure they want to see. How many SL users met someone they ended up being friends with at a place that has adult content? I would bet most. Taking away that possibility from new users who are not yet sold on SL reduces their likelihood of staying. Let's face it, SL does not yet have enough content and technical ability to give new users enough to make them stay.

Most new technology, like the VCR and the Internet was pioneered by adult content, and SL is no different. The reality is most things we do in this life revolve around sex one way or another, and there is nothing evil, immoral, or dirty about it. This is why adult content was around long before any religion, and it will be here for as long as the human race. It is part of who we are as a society, and if it wasn't, nobody would be interested in it, and it wouldn't be in SL to begin with. While you are at it, LL, why not make SL a religious place with everyone required to say a prayer when they first log in? This is what censorship and content restriction leads to, being from Russia I know that all too well. It's time to take a stand LL, and look beyond the religious right philosophy.

Instead of wasting time with censorship, I suggest LL focus on the real issues of making SL mainstream:

1) Expand the capacity of each sim to at least 1000 avis at the same time, preferably 10,000. What concert or mainstream event has less than 1000 people gathered together in the same location? The current limit is barely 100, so sad.

2) Create a full featured browser based SL client to make it easier for new users to try out SL without downloading software. Once the person is hooked, they can optionally install the software for additional features.

If SL wants to be mainstream like the web, they have to be like the web in as many ways as possible! There is no censorship or content restriction on the web, as adult websites are not forced to be in a "Red Light District". Why should SL be any different? If anything, it should be more progressive and open! Just my 2 cents.

Viva adult content!
Down with censorship!

a) Age Verification presents me with no worries, particularly now PIU is acceptable.
b) I'm not so pessimisstic about the new continent as some for a slew of reasons.

BUT...that said:

The failure on LL's part to:

a) Ensure that this issue is properly, fully, and completely brought to the attention of ALL residents, in ALL languages
b) To actually constructively ENGAGE with those with genuine concerns
c) Work constructively with users to ensure that "Adult definitions" are robustly developed

AGAIN demonstrates the lack of concern for people's views & customer feedback.

Alternative solutions have been put forward here and in the main forum thread. It is about time LL engaged in a genuinely OPEN discussion with ALL concerned parties (rather than cherry-picking like minds with whom to engage in "brown bag meetings") at which such alternatives can be rationally explored and discussed, rather than being dismissed out of hand.

Jack, Blondin, Cyn et al - why not put an announcement and poll up on the splash screen? Surely that is the FAIREST way of gauging users response to this idea? Comment such as "I've only had 10 negative replies" simply don't cut it. Especially when Jack already has a trust issue around him following the OpenSpace sim debacle.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Open Letter to M & Jack Linden,

I wish to bring to your attention a PJira post that I authored less the a day and a half ago.

http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-2727

In this time I have collected the second largest number of votes in any category, second only to the number of votes asking Linden Labs to stop the open space price increase. In this request I put forth the proposal that the majority of Second Life Residence would like Linden Labs to cease all further development of the Adult Content filtering and halt any implementation of this filtering in is current form. It has been stated by several Linden employees that "A small percentage" of residence want this, but yet no concrete proof as to how many people, or even how these numbers were obtained could be offered. I put forth this Pjiar as proof of three things.

1) The MAJORITY of residence do not want content filtering as it has been currently proposed
2) Contrary to several Linden statements, a large number of residence don't even know this is happening.
3) There are several alternatives available to protect the unwary from adult content that is less disruptive.

We the majority of residence of Second Life ask you to stop this break neck drive to implement a disruptive and ill thought out plan and step back and rethink its direction and implementation. We all can agree that there needs to be some sort of protection offered to those that are morally or mentally unable to handle certain aspects of adult content. But these people represent a minute minority in Second life, whereas the majority will be adversely effected by many factors within the current plan, both know and unknown.

Several realistic and creative alternatives have been offered in both the forums and in this Pjira. Some, such as privacy walls and partitions through land control would even offer residence some actual privacy in there Second Life experience. Others would have further advantages to the public in general. The thing to understand is that the Second life Main grid is already an "Adults Only" area. Where it is true that it is possible for under age persons to enter the main grid, none of what has been proposed would guarantee that it would not continue. I put it to you that should you centralize adult content by banishing it to a segregated ghetto, that exposure to minors would actually increase, since it would be much easier for them to find.

The one thing that the current adult content filtering initiative will guarantee is a disruption in the lives of almost every resident in second life, a sever loss of business to owners within the grid, and a general and overwhelming distrust in Linden Labs leading to further loss of revenue.

So I ask that you step back, listen to your customers, rethink the direction you are taking here. Take the time to do this the right way, a way that will let second life continue to be "Your World, Your Imagination".

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter. Please feel free to contact me should you wish to discuss this further.

RichD Tomsen

I am a member of the FFF and a trainer there. I work with the ponies learning the SL version of ponyplay and I really have to express this as a fellow member of not just this group, but also groups like BDSM.

Neither is a sexually deviant act, it is a lifestyle choice. Anyone can research it on the web or in the local library, so why should it become different here in Second Life? We choose to live our lives certain ways and dont inflict our choices on others unwillingly. We do not support rape or oppression of self, we believe in our lifestyle choices. Many of us even live it in our first lives.

Linden Labs has chosen to call it Second Life... perhaps because it is suppose to reflect first life but on a more fun basis. Where is the fun if Linden Labs begin to pull some of the realism away from us... such as thrusting all adult oriented content together.

Realistically, life isn't very neat and pretty tied up with a bow. We have porn shops across the street from churches. We have drug dealers living across the street from schools. It's not pretty, but it's real. Why do we wish forced segregation here in Second Life? No one asked our opinions at all.

We are the ones it happens to, we are the people who should hold the say. Why when children are the minority do we give them they rights they haven't earned... even the governments wait until they are of legal age to give them rights. Why does society keep pandering to children and giving up our own adult freedoms?

Why does nudity necessarily classify someone as adult? In European nations children see partially nude ads on television during the day. It is also the way we are born and a natural thing, not something dirty. Why must nudity or a simple out of the norm lifestyle cause us to be classified as Adult instead of Mature?

Sex sims should be adult. Escort sims should be adult... but there are many other tings that do NOT fit into such a catagory and it is a HARSH and wrong misjustice to try to force us to be categorized with them. We don't peddle sex. We represent self and lifestyle choices!

I ask you to stop and think about these things. What you ask to do to many sims are wrong... many groups are wrong. Its segregation and many people will leave. We will have an increase in being harassed by neighboring "adult" minded sims when people wander in looking for a good time and choose our lands to scope out. We will have more complaints to the Lindens about harassment.

On the whole, the move into Adult territory for us in lifestyle choice groups is a bad idea. I oppose it as I see the negative aspects perhaps that have been overlooked or haven't been given enough credit to. I hope my plea will make you all understand why I so strongly believe I am right and that you should too. Linden Labs should rethink its ruling and let us stay in Mature content. Many feel the way I do so please give this appeal some serious thought.

For you this is a business and we are your customers.. and the customers are always right, aren't they? Especially when its our money behind you? We help make Linden Labs successful today. It is our money purchasing Lindens – so again, why do we pander to the youth today? They have only the rights parents give them, the government gives them. Society shouldn't be so ready to sacrifice ourselves for children at our own expense.

We need to keep more of the realism and role play in Second Life or WHY did Linden Labs name it Second Life to start with. It will lose all its value in the name as we lose our rights and become segregated. Pigeon holed. Things that are different aren't always negative or bad... please understand that and keep us Mature!!

Respectfully,
Mistress Enigma Khandr

1. What is the problem with just moving to a private estate? From personal experience I'd wager you will be happier there anyway.

2. Only extreme content will have to move. In SL you have some stuff that is WAY beyond anything the average 'man on the street' would consider acceptable. I don't even want to post examples here on JIRA they are so extreme.

3. Many of you are not taking into account that the continued prosperity of SL is dependent on a positive public image. Most people, I think, would be outraged by some of the things I have seen in SL if they didn't understand it in context. Go to work tomorrow and explain what kajira are to your co-workers. Now imagine that being printed in a newspaper and it becoming synonymous with Second Life.

4. I can only conclude that people are either ignorant of the very concept of public image or do not believe SL is affected by market forces. Somehow SL will continue to exist ad infinitum regardless of marketing, capital investment, public relations, judicial proceedings of all sorts, and every other factor influenced by the perception of people who don't understand SL, and may never even log in. Maybe you just have a 'not in my backyard' mentality. Whatever the case reality is such that these factors need to be taken into account like it or not.

5. While I don't like censorship of any kind I don't like the idea of SL becoming an nonviable investment even more. In order to grow LL needs to do this. If you are reading this obviously you care what happens to SL, so suck in your gut and deal with it. It's not the end of the world and in the end if it results in SL attracting more users then it will benefit YOU.

6. People who are into the affected content won't leave. I don't buy that at all. They love SL and having to tp into a sim on the adult continent or heaven forbid a private estate is neither going to ruin their SL experience nor stop them from participating in the activities they previously did.

7. I do not believe there will be a significant loss of either usage or revenue. Quite the opposite, I think this will lead to a very positive upswing which will increase revenue, investment potential, and growth. That is the point, BTW, of a business.

The easiest and most, simple thing to do is upon SL Account Regisration. Have person who are already on SL go into the account and make a choice of their perferred rating. Teens or Underage should also provide a date of birth upon sign up. The birth date will determine SL accessibility.

That is where the filter should be added. To move people, change all of this takes too much time and energy.

Upon Sign up, the message should be clear. "Do you wish to view Adult Content Site?" Yes or No.

And add the explaination.....upon clicking Yes, you will be allowed to enter adult sites....signature verification takes place at this point, and why not as for them to enter their date of birth.

By clicking No....you will be unable to view any sites or locations which cater to adult activities....This option is changeable only by coming back to this page and changing your No to Yes.

We do need ways to prevent minors from viewing. There should be an exception of having anyone who says Yes to place a valid credit card number on line as part of the registration. A $1. US should be placed upon the card, so if any minors are using parents cards, it will serve as a notification for them that their child has used their card to download and Register for Second Life.

Moving forward, another idea would have as the very first prompt into Second Life, have the person enter their date of birth, along with that a selection of Avatars which suit their age group....Then the preference and notification of Adult content should be required and they will be informed they are disallowed due to age verification/ If the date of birth is legal then of course, with the information that a credit card is needed for the $1.00 Fee....

Second Life is an Adult Website and as so it should carry Adult Content, those who do not want to expose themselves should Click No. That way their Avatar will be restricted to only PG sites and purchases.

1. my biggest problem with moving to a private island is that the tier is 50% more than mainland..

2. If you think only those with extreme content are being forced to move, I strongly suggest that you do a bit more research.

3. I think the continued prosperity of SL will be helped a lot more if LL stops annoying people so much. The word of mouth damage that they've inflicted upon themselves in the last year will far outweigh any good this project does (and it's very debatable if this project actually does any good at all)

4. Hey, thanks. I think you're ignorant, too.

5. LL absolutely doesn't need to this project if it doesn't accomplish ANY of its goals.

As RichD Tomsen said, several creative alternatives have been offered as potential solutions in the forums; all we heard back, over and over, was "What do you think is Adult?" from Blondin and "We can't do that" from all other Lindens responding.

If this is truly about protecting children from logging into SL, if this is truly about protecting those of delicate sensibilities who still want to play, then making Ursula a PG-rated continent is the best way to go. To do this, you will need to:

1. Declare Ursula will be changing to a PG-rated continent.

2. Ensure all welcome areas/infohubs are on PG-rated sims or on Ursula. (Then ENFORCE THAT, because over and over, we've heard residents say that the worst offenders for offers of public sex/intense violence are griefers that ARE IN INFOHUBS. Change that, you rid yourselves of 80% of the problem)

3. All new accounts default to Ursula. No Adult content until that account has been verified.

4. I have no problem keeping payment info used (as in, credit card/PayPal account actually used to purchase Lindens) as verification for adult status. It's worked in the past, it will work now; in fact, while creating an avatar, if that person chooses to attach a credit card or PayPal account to that avatar then, it should work for age verification as well.

5. To that end, ABANDON all ties with Aristotle/Integrity. They are NOT reliable, they are NOT trusted, and, worst of all, the system for age verification you have now DOES NOT WORK. I recommend HIGHLY going with alternate means of age verification, but if you cannot do that, for whatever reason: PLEASE pick another company than one KNOWN for SELLING PERSONAL DATA. This is unconscionable and we should not be asked to choose between internet safety and violating privacy, OR being age verified.

6. Ensure that the system you choose, WHATEVER that system is, works for domestic and international accounts. Not only does the current system fail for US residents, but it PROFOUNDLY fails for international residents.

7. Realise that by setting up a new "Adult" rating, you are, in essence, bifurcating your database and potentially making it unusable for search. If you're determined to add Adult Content restrictions, then simply default to PG and Adult; do NOT further complicate things by adding Adult to PG and Mature!

8. You already have a system in place for "muting" avatars by rendering them grey, and anything they type invisible. Why can't you simply expand that system to any content rated Adult? Granted, it would devastate PG-rated photographers, unless they traveled exclusively in PG lands; but then, if they're taking photographs, and they're NOT in PG-lands, then something's gone wrong with your system anyway.

I will also be sending this by notecard to Blondin and Jack Linden, and following up by IM. I had been leaving the Lindens out of this directly, as I did and do feel they have better things to do than receive a thousand IMs a day; but this issue is far too important to continue keeping silent.

===
(Edited to remove punctuation that showed up as "striking out" sections of this comment)

As for private estates, for me it is barely profitable to run a business on a mainland sim, let alone afford the extra $100usd a month for a private estate. Also in my situation, I have a water sim based mall with a marina, the Large majority of my sim content is no were near anything that would be considered adult. It is my small gallery where, as a RL photographer, I feature artistic nudes. In RL these would be considered PG and even Possibly mature. But in SL it would be considered Adult, along with the the content you described as " WAY beyond anything the average 'man on the street' would consider acceptable".

We all agree some sort of filtering is needed to protect people, but the method that is being proposed is ill thought out, and better alternatives are available.

Thank you so much for your well thought out comments

While I am with you in that I think people who believe ALL of SL is an adult service and therefore you can be an *sshat in a PG sim in your Xcite gear, need to get their head out of their backside, this way of messing up search and ratings is only detrimental to private estates and standalone sims who still don't have what they want! That is, to STOP the rezzing of adult and/or unrated content IN their own sims.

If you want to know what folks around Wells Fargo really think I point you to this blog - http://www.finextra.com/community/fullblog.aspx?id=290

and quote ::

It was of particular interest to me to understand the reasoning for Wells Fargo leaving Second Life and creating their own separate platform. Tim explained that this was due to a number of factors including the fact that this gave them:

• increased flexibility; – partially solved by standalone SL grids, hampered by crappy content tools
• increased consumer availability; – not solved by standalones - no connection to main grid, and sims still do not support enough people
• a better brand fit; – solved by standalones partially, but hampered by outdated content tools
• lower cost; – not solved by standalones - they cost more, and do not have access to inexpensive content from independents
• increased activities, such as Sunday Brunches, Skydiving Clubs and so on; and – only partially solved by performance efforts
• the provision of additional financial education content. – solved by standalone SLs

Only ONE thing is really solved, the ability to be a ... gasp standalone sim, but the other issues are not solved completely. And this blog goes on to describe the griefing incident with Anshe Chung on CNET as the last straw! And that is STILL NOT SOLVED because anyone can rez anything in their inventory and you can't stop them before the fact - no build doesn't stop scripted hud griefing, and neither does no script land iether.

I can sympathise because it happened to friends of mine also with high profile events. ALL OF THIS.

I will copy my PJIRA here for the last time for people to understand we need a CONTENT ratings system, and a way to view only the kinds of content we want to see based on our preferences as sim owners! The corps were all private sim owners, this never was a mainland issue, its very much the situation of "if all you have is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail" Someone apparantly only knows how to manipulate land, and is clueless about the need to regulate and monetize CONTENT.

Why should SIM owners have the power?

Because it is the SIM owners who are paying the bills for their sims! Duh.

SVC-4181

What we really need in SL is a content ratings system.

It is clear to many of us that a land and search rating system, though well intentioned, is not sufficient in any way. The main issue for sim owners both individual and corporate was the inability to prevent the rezzing of adult and offensive content on sims meant for general audiences only.

Some of these corporations wanted to both keep their local content in, and only allow screened content from the outside in.

It is still impossible in Second Life to truly block offensive and/or adult content before it is rezzed in inappropriate circumstances.

My general idea is as follows:

Second Life allowing avatars to move from grid to grid, and have access to a filtered inventory - according to the filters set by the sim owners.

Create an OPT IN system, allowing content creators to prescreen content into PG, M and AO ratings. This content would be available to the Main Grid as usual, and the option would be to allow this screened and rated content to flow across grids. Say PG could flow into other grids like the Teen Grid, and PG content could flow back from TG back into Main Grid.

Avatars wearing rated content can be filtered. Avs wearing unscreened/adult content will be unable to rez into a sim that bars unscreened and/or adult content.

This should be a system that content creators would have to pay a small fee for - perhaps a percentage of money from each transaction (XStreetSL?), but open to other monetization methods.

PG content should be tightly screened under this system, so that it can be bought and allowed across grids and sims without fear, especially to those educational and corporate customers who need strong controls on inflowing content.

Unscreened content should be treated as it is right now, allowed on the Mainland, but unable to be ported from grid to grid, or to sims that bar unscreened content. This is a solution that would restore some greatly needed confidence to the inventory system. It will also lower the costs of Second Life content for standalone corporate and educational customers, who will be able to choose from a competitive market of individual content creators, making Second Life a more attractive platform.

I understand it will not be easy. A big issue will be the permissions system. I believe the permissions system can be handled via the licensing of the standalone platform to customers. (that it will have to be enforced to have access to Second Life inventory services)

Your assertion that "only extreme content will have to move" is, to date, untrue in the extreme: Blondin and Blue Linden began forum dialogues with that premise, but at this point Blondin is also calling strippers equal in offense to extreme sexual and violent content. While I do agree that, to many, simple nudity creates adult perceptions, I do think there is a large separation between watching an avatar dance on stage, and remove clothing layers, and watching that same avatar be shot, stabbed, eaten by animals, or worse. To ensure that underage eyes are not seeing those portions of SL they shouldn't (which would be anything not on the Teen Grid), and ensure that those of delicate sensibilities do not have to face content which bothers them, I still believe the better solution is to retain mixed content in Mature rated areas, and make Ursula PG-only.

http://tehdely.livejournal.com/88823.html

I'm afraid that the SL community...on both sides of the issue...may be being played for suckers.

My local shopping mall has a wide and diverse collection of shops from kids toy shops to more adult stores including one selling sex toys. Yet nobody is banned from entering the mall and looking around, we are left to seek out the shops we want.

There's loads of adult material on the internet, yet we are not banned from certain areas of the internet, we search and find what we want.

Why should SL be different?

Everything else in life we're not banned from, things are just properly labelled so we can decide without any actual exclusion of people.

This wil hurt the financial viability of adult sites and force people to mislabel their sites to get around this. If the Lindens use a heavy hand mature sites will then be under attack and the bulk of users will give up.

The solution is to give users the options to set their browsers to not go to adult sites. Leave it to parents and those who dont want to go to adult sites the option to set their browsers not to go to adult sites...and let the rest of us do what we want.

My message though in the end is that the Lindens should not be confused by a vocal minority who complain about this that their view is the majority view...nor in any case should a remedy be used that infringes on the rights of others...

So for example an unverified searches for a keyword that an adult place happens to use, the adult place will come up in the listings with all the unapproved keywords, if any, filtered and the search picture be a Linden image saying they must upgrade to be able to see that result completely and to be able to teleport to the location. This would be for All search and Places search. Just an idea.

I also think that SL is doing this backwords. Instead of disrupting all the existing areas they should be making a new PG rated area. This seems like it would be much less disruptive.

Something else I find in conflict is skins are marked as Adult content on XStreetSL. How can these skins also be used in PG areas?

I haven't heard what that plan for skins are but it seems any skins wore in a PG area would have to have underware or private areas removed because the way avatars are rendered it is possible to have naked avatars for a period of time. Especially if the clothes are made from prims.

I have seen this happen over and over where people believe that they are making something better by taking away things. I understand that there are people who are offended by the adult content and are crying and screaming about it instead of acting their age. That is why I am here, there are those who can not do many of the measures that are used to validate themselves as adult or do not trust the internet like most so they do not give out information. That is why I do not understand why Linden Lab has decided to throw all the Adult Content onto its own continent instead of taking those who are crying and screaming and throwing them onto their own continent. If you are trying to avoid future lawsuits or someone has forced this because of some other means you need to understand that those who created most to all the Adult content here are the ones who built Second Life up to what it is now.

I have a question for you to think about. Who help bring videos to the where they are now? Adult content. If it was not for the Adult industry we would still be watching movies in theaters because it would not have been "cost effective". Same with the internet, it became extremely popular after someone figured out how to have images displayed, Yes they are legitimate now with both adult, mature and PG content but they seperated it at the beginning. When people call out the regular cry of "What about the children?" they are not thinking about the children, they are thinking about how they can use the cry to allow them to change the view of others to the way they wish them to think.

All the stuff that is called for change in Adult Content is not going to do anything but restrict the people who build this. Mature is Adult. If people do not want to see an adult or mature area then go to a PG.

What about the people who can not live in Real Life because of illness or disability that can not verify their age, they wish to live without a problem and this causes more problems then they are able to deal with, you will lose more people than it is worth but that is exactly what these criers want.

https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2009/03/12/upcoming-changes-for-adult-content

"1) We will create clear and consistent definitions of what constitutes adult content, in line with our Community Standards,"
This goal has failed.
Many of the filtered words contradict the guidelines that Blondin Linden told us in the SL forum.

"2) We will enable easy, reliable, and consistent ways to be able to access content by type - the goal being to ensure that Residents can choose what they want to see, purchase and experience."
This goal has failed.
A considerable percentage of SL users are in countries where they cannot identity-verify nor get credit cards or paypal accounts. Considering how many foreigners are affected, SL's intended acts – which will reduce the choices of foreign users – are classist and even somewhat racist.

"3) We will implement effective Resident services and dialog to ensure that those who provide Adult goods or services can continue their activities without long-term disruption or loss of business."
This goal has failed.
Adult businesses that have been handing out landmarks for 4 years now, will see the forwarding for those landmarks break only 30 days after being moved to Ursula. Various businesses have recently been running sensors in our stores to gather statistics, and resulting estimates are that 30-40% of paying customers will be unable to access Ursula, resulting in significant loss of business.

"4) We will implement account verification systems that provide an additional level of assurance for providers of Adult content that only adults are able to access their content."
This goal has failed.
Aristotle's identity-verification never truly graduated from Beta, as there are numerous reports of false positives (people getting verified by putting in random data, incomplete data, or data culled off the internet) and incorrect negatives (people reporting they could not verify in spite of having lived at their present address for 20 years, etc.) Paypal, Visa and Mastercard have official positions that persons using their accounts are not in any way verified as adults.

Now if I applied Linden's rules to my RL... My home must be moved immediately to the ghetto and so would the toy store because of the mere possibility a child might hear me moan or see the toys inside the store when the door is open. Despite my SL home being at 700m and protected, the mere fact I have an adult word (ponygirl) in my description, which is for me and me alone, will get me labeled adult and carted away. Some moron will see my adult toys (if they managed to fly up that high) and gasp in shock then run to the Lindens to express their outrage.

All this because the Linden's don't want to control their children.

The trick is figuring out which ones are the children when we all look the same in SL. I say take an aggressive reverse strategy. If a parent complains their little munchkin saw me dancing nude then tell that parent that you will terminate little Johnny's account immediately and scold them for not watching little Janey a little more closely. Put in all sorts of "legal" documents when you sign up that state clearly the penalty if you lie and what will happen to you AND YOUR PARENT if you lie. Put the responsibility on the person not the Lindens. Ultimately it's the person who provides the internet connection who should be legally responsible for little Johnny's naughtiness. You Linden lawyers ever consider that?

But there I go trying to make a logical argument to a Linden. We all know how effective that is. The Lindens are being held hostage by fear and tort lawyers. Even though they could take a stand, they won't. But at least I said my piece for that's still one of my constitutional rights. I think.

Linden Lab has stated that due to various reasons they cannot turn over account control to be monitored or affected by the residents themselves, but if we had a government and ceased to be mere residents but became citizens, then an elected body could bring our interests to the table in dealing with Linden Lab's present and future policies.

Now it should be said that Second Life is a new frontier and its more than a system and more than a game, its a virtual place. Now I believe is the time to look at this realistically. It will require that we as new citizens would have to pay a government running tax and all that goes with that, but we can be disregarded singly... together however, working as one entity, we might be able to broker an agreement with Linden to shoulder the social responsibilities, in return for rights in so far as policy is concerned going forward.

Now many people have said that something like this would never fly, that Linden is a company and doesn't have to listen to us. But I put it to you that this is a new medium a new frontier and we decide whether or not we have a voice, we decide whether or not others provide us with services or not. We're going to have to dig deep and I'd like to see it done respectfully. But something needs to be done and if not now, then when precisely? Why should we expect change unless we're ready to do something to effect that change?

If we continue to think of this world as solely theirs, then nothing will change for either of us. If you want a voice, if you want representation, then I put it to you all, that we know what needs to be done.

Now I am not advocating any sort of in-world violence or mobbing of Linden areas, etc. What I am advocating is that we, the residents, become we the citizens. That we declare in the majority voice that we will be heard and that we will have a stake in the future of our world. We demand representation. We demand a vote in social policy. We demand the responsibility to make laws that make sense for our environment.

Or we can let it all go and be sheep.

The choice is yours. Lets take a chance. Lets do what hasn't been done. Lets push the envelope, lets take to the boardrooms and the virtual spaces and let us say simply, "No. And we are unanimous in this."

After that, the whole grid may change. It may work, it may not, but at least we will be able to say we gave it our best shot.

SL parcel usage works the way it does because many places are mixed-use. By that, I mean, commercial operations (heavy-use to moderate-use) side by side with home parcels (light-use), thereby lessening lag. Many people, if not most or all, in SL do not spend their full time in SL in their homes: and even if they do, that time is not 24/7.

Essentially, with the proposal for the adult continent, what you are planning is to put heavy-use commercial properties next to more heavy-use commercial properties. This will not, this does not work. Script performance will suffer, lag will increase, even a moderate amount of traffic will lead to overall continent-wide resource drain, which leads to residents red-mapping and crashing, up to the sims themselves crashing. There will be mass instability even on class 5 servers. Look to your internal statistics, talk to sim managers. This is factual and proven and it will happen if you insist on this plan.

Contrast this with a PG-only continent. There will be homes there. There will be greenspaces, perhaps initially subsidized by the Labs, but quite often, you'll find universities and educational centers will want greenspace surrounding their buildings. There will be businesses, yes, but they will be spread out, they will be diversified, and their heavy- to moderate-usage of sim resources will be balanced throughout the rest of the light-use parcels in each sim.

This will work with your business model, it will cause the least upset to your residents, and if you implement this, you may even be able to advertise how stable the PG continent is, thereby gaining new business interest and new residents who might well join up just to be able to live in sims that don't constantly crash!

Please consider the PG continent option again.

1. Trying to define what "adult content" is. The US government has been trying to do that for decades with no luck. I seriously doubt that Linden Labs can do any better. It is much easier to define what PG is. Set up designated PG sims, and let the universities, and mainstream businesses set up there. Oh wait, don't we have that already???

2. A banned word list that can be "updated" at will? That's like playing a baseball game when the umpire can change the rules whenever he wants. And, who decides the words? What makes one word adult, and another word not? I find the word "stupid" offensive, should that get put on the banned list? If I understand correctly, places that sell items classified as BDSM could be classified as mature, however the very words that describe their business are classified as adult, effectively killing their chance to advertise.

3. Moving all content to their own sim. This is costly, time-consuming, and could ruin many businesses. Many businesses have been in their location for a long time, and a move would mean lost income.

From the time I've been in SL, I have seen many, many mainstream companies and schools develop a presence in SL, and it looks to me like they are the ones threatening to cause trouble. They knew coming in that this is a place where a lot of things happen, including things that are considered "adult, mature, etc". I say, let the buyer beware. If they find things in SL offensive, they can start their own version, and set all the rules they want.

Please, don't let the voice of a small minority dictate what happens to what is obviously the majority.

Linden Lab has claimed, from the start, that virtual worlds are the future of the Web. Obviously, LL wants to be the leader in this field, developing the standard that others will follow. The issue is that they are restricting the medium while it's still in its infancy. The Web was a success because it was unrestricted.

Restricting SL will open a new market for other corporations to create their own unrestricted virtual worlds, siphoning off part of LL's user base. This splinters the market and means that LL has less of a say in the overall standard. In the long run, this doesn't help LL as a company. I'm sure LL is excited about merging Teen SL into the broader SL (which I suspect is the driving force behind this move), and the added funding that will bring to the company, but they are cutting off their nose to spite their face with this one.

But, in the end, this is good for the consumer. Many would leave SL in a heartbeat if another virtual world with a large number of residents suddenly appeared and gave them everything they want. If this plays out the way it should, LL will have to reverse their decision in the future to stay competitive.

This is definitely a move they need to reconsider and delay. They can come up with a bogus technical reason why they can't do it as quickly as they would like and then just let it die on the vine if they decide their business is at risk. I, for one, hope that they reconsider.

If LL is hoping to draw a more "family-friendly" audience by shunting adult content aside, further from their already-extant "PG" areas, I think the City of Las Vegas can inform them of how well THAT ends up working. It will kill Second Life, and somebody else will come along who is more receptive to adult content and frankly able to design a better interface....

This would be a clever publicity routine to get people talking/complaining/arguing for weeks and make SL 'in the news'...if that's what it was. Controversy is always a cheap way to get some press.

But if it's for real, it is obviously an assault on freedom of expression in a clearly adult world, especially a world where the term 'Mature' held one definition and now certain people seem intent on the game of definition-changing. Mature = Adult as it was originally presented.

Have the integrity to maintain and protect those original definitions. Changing them AFTER the cheque has cleared is laughable and quite unethical, especially on a business level.

I am very active in organisations that promote Femdom, bdsm, and Womens Empowerment...and it seems obvious to me.....the rather arbitrary distinctions that are proposed to segregate certain people/places/objects/and most notably: BEHAVIORS will only lead to unending cases of the 'D word' (Discrimination) - GINA

Well I just tried to age verify and...

they want me to send a scanned copy of my passport. (I'm not in the US)

I can't believe a company would even ask for something like that!

So I now get to choose to either do something really really stupid and leave
myself wide open for identity theft, or I get stuck on the PG side of the
wall with all the puritans, corporates, and teens.

Or I guess I could leave and stop giving them money.

It's almost like one of their competitors has gotten a small team
into LL to bring them down from the inside.

I'm not against the idea of changing things to allow those adults who don't want
to have their entire SL experience surrounded by porn being able to make that
choice, but this is outright stupid.

Come to SL where we'll treat you like a child.

The plural of "resident" is "residents", not "residence".

• "Adult" parcels will be blocked from entry if you are not 'verified'

• "Adult Words" will be filtered from search if you are not 'verified'

ahh .. 'scuse me.... IF YOU CAN'T GET THERE, WHO CARES IF YOU CAN SEE THE LISTING.

The fact that you can see listings... ((gasp)).. MIGHT EVEN BE A REASON TO GET VERIFIED!

'Filtering' is pure CENSORSHIP.

We don't need blanket statements, move the PG grid cause at least theres a HARD-LINE there on whats PG and whats not.

Point by point...
1) A segregated continent were all mainland parcel holders will be banished to should they wish to continue providing adult service
"Banished" is nothing but crap intended to alarm, a buzzword.

2) Instituted Adult Search filtering without publishing a list of those key words that would flag a classified ad as adult
The key words will be obvious and blatant, there's no NEED to publish a list unless you want to "game the system" and dodge around them.

3) Requiring "Age Verification" without having a tested and Universally acceptable method of verification
Almost a good point - valid concern for non-US residents, for sure - but I verified using my last 4 digits of my SSN, hardly a difficult process. Easy as pie, in fact. Just need a way for the non-US crowd to do it that easily.

4) Once Verified, a user Still needs to Turn On adult content in order to get a complete and fair listing of classified
Awww, clicking something is so hard? Jesus, here's a box of tissues...

5) Provided No way for a resident to have Both Adult material, and Non-adult material in the same parcel or sim without having the whole sim flaged as adult
Now, this IS a valid problem. Flagging should be handled on the Parcel level, not sim-wide - Mature sims should be able to handle Adult parcels on them and still be rated Mature as a sim. But ultimately, the sim owner should be able to make the call!

6) Provided no Clear and definitive definition as to what constitutes "Adult Content"
That was roughed out very early on, as being PUBLIC displays of extreme violence or PUBLIC sex acts. e.g. a copy of a painting which displays a nipple is fine in a PG museum, but an avatar's exposed nipple is not. An avatar's exposed nipple is fine in a Mature sim, so is wearing nipple rings, nudity in general, etc - but an avatar having her nipple wrenched on with pliers in public is not. That would be Adult. Doing it in private is fine in mature however.

In conclusion, logic and reason and co-operating in the mutual interest of everyone makes far more sense than running around crying "OPPRESSION!!" and trying to gain allies through fear, buzzwords, ignorance of the facts, and pretending that the world will end if something changes. Change happens all the time, dust off your skirts and move on, this is NOT the end of everything and the whining and panic-mongering is more offensive than the content they want to handle is.

But maybe if we all make a stand on not moving. If no one buys in to Ursula, and everyone stays where they are... Protests at the LL's office hours. Educating more people on what's going on. I refuse to download this new viewer. I don't plan on doing it until it's mandatory. Sadly... There's not much more we can do at this point, because we're at the mercy of Big Brother.

Now...lets just for a moment think a bit...or for those who are not able to, pretend to think...

LL is merging the TeenSL grid with the standart SL grid which is supposed to be 100% ADULT ACCESS ONLY.
Now...if they so bluntly, openly and officially start allowing children on our adult grid, then yes, it makes sense to set up a firmer seperation of PG and Mature.....Without this merging this merging there would be no need for any of this because only adults would be in the standart SL grid...or if there are children here then BECAUSE THE PARENTS ARE NEGLECTING THEIR PARENTAL DUTIES!!

Let us think further.......
If it is such a huge issue to allow underaged anywhere near mature content sims, why are they merging those two grids? what is their intend behind that? There are only two possible reasons to this.
1: Money: With having both Kids and Adults on the same grid they can implement that to have an account that is able to enter mature content sims one has to pay INDECENT HIGH FEES (this is the grande majority of residents), while those who don't want any Adult things in their Adult world can go for free.....that would include mostly kids (who are not supposed to be on the main grid) and puritans (recognisable by their fear that somebody somewhere might sometimes have some sorts of fun) (this is a negligible amount of residents).
2: Puritanism and Censorhip: Somebody either in LL or in a governmental department that presurises LL can not stand the thought of people being free, demanding censorship to uproot the sinfull pleasures that taint our poor souls and causes the downfall of boredom. Moving SL into a police state full of fear, boredom, censorship, enslavement of the mind, brainwashing, puritanism, GeStaPo.....

Now let us all raise our left arm and call together "Heil, Linden" if we don't want to be kicked out of SL

SecondLife should be a site where users have the right to stay anonymous. Some of the in-world chats, I had in the short period I joined, with other obviously consenting adults, would be impossible to conduct, it there ever was a threat of direct or indirect id-discovery.
What some people confide in others, protected by anonymity, is often priceless to the individual. It is an amazing outlet of personal stuff. Had I known about this, I would have joined SL a lot earlier. Some of the revelations I heart from others, I am convinced, totally honest in either perception or real experience, no-one in their right mind would ever confide to another living person, that one looks into the eye.

Don't get me wrong I love my real-life partner dearly and I have friends who I have personal conversations with, and yet some of the things one can say in SL, due to the anonymity, would be impossible to share without it. I am convinced that a lot of the conversations on SL contain REAL LIFE - ALTERING qualities, if ever any of it came to light (none of illegal and yet highly embarrassing for the individual). If some of this stuff came to exposure in a real life scenario, I am convinced in many cases would put the participants in jeopardy of blackmail and/or persecution. LIFE-ALTERNG indeed as I said before!
Is this the stuff Linden wants to be responsible for?

Should Linden go ahead with this, what appears to me a modern day witch-hunt, a lot of people will need to look for an effective way to either circumvent the drastic rigor or find alternatives.

Parents with a justified concern for their children, can not be redeemed from their duties of supervising their children, by making their duties the plight of the rest of the world.
I had children myself, I know what I am talking about. If you are concerned your under-age son or daughter engages in adult activities, get Linden to cancel the account. If you don't know the account in use? What evidence do you have, that your child commits these things? Lets look at things individually and presume innocence until proven guilty!

This is because this issue may well impact script performance, increase lag, and lead to further sim and avatar instability, if implemented; It may devalue resident businesses and business advertising opportunities, and lead to a disconnect in terms of trust and understanding of Linden Labs, in terms of their residents.

Further, the use of Aristotle/Integrity seems to be a deal-breaker for many residents, in the US; and the current (broken) age verification system cannot generally be used internationally.

All of these are solid issues, rational issues, and issues that do need to be fixed urgently.

Now I've tried to keep an open mind on this issue. For example, I can see how a "red-light" type area could be a good thing, if it was implemented and managed correctly. In RL, many cities have a "red-light" area and it seems to work for them to varying degrees of success. And of course, it gives Linden to opportunity to manipulate the amount of available land and force the prices higher.

But I have to say, that up to now, all I can see is the negative side and I don't think for one second you believe your own blurb about how much content in SL is Adult. A simple query on your database would tell you just how many adult related items there are in existence.

However, let's look at some facts.

Yesterday, I downloaded the new release candidate viewer to see exactly what changes you had made.

According to Blondin Linden (exact quote and details below), the fact that I have payment history with Linden should automatically flag me as Adult / Age verified but this wasn't the case. So, either Linden have back-peddled on their previous statements and as far as I am concerned, broken their word to their customers, or, they are grossly incompetent software engineers and either don't test their software correctly, or don't understand how their own system works.

So, another lost opportunity to try and offer your customers some glimmer of hope that you are competent and caring.

So, keep it up Linden. The reason people stay in SL is three fold. Firstly, many have a significant investment in SL (in time and money), second, they actually do like the environment, and third, there's no real alternative, yet.
At some point, YOUR CUSTOMERS are going to get so fed up with all this that as soon as theirs an opportunity to jump, they will cut their losses and run.
SL is supposed to be entertainment, it's now just another source of stress in peoples lifes, and to be frank, we don't need it.

12th Mar 2009
Blondin Linden:

The idea is that there will be multiple ways to become verified. You will be considered adult verified if you have payment info with Linden, payment info with Xstreet or a verified Paypal account. I believe that the Paypal accounts will satisfy some of the comments by Europeans.

If you already have payment info on file with Linden or any of the above, you will be considered adult verified.

http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=311512&page=2&pp=15

First, note how hard it is for anyone to give a clear definition of the difference between "Adult" and "Mature", but no-one is arguing about the difference between "Mature" and "PG". From this we learn that one distinction is a real one and the other one is not. So the first issue is to realize that only one division of material is needed. What is safe for the squeamish is PG and what is not is Mature. That's all that's needed.

Partly, the problem is due to the labels themselves. "PG" is wrong. All residents are adults, and adults don't generally require parental guidance. One could save a lot of argument by using artificial labels. For instance, classing sims as "red" (mature) and "green" (PG) would be easy and allow good visual cues as to where you are.

Secondly, as a matter of principle, those who want a change from the status quo should be the ones that have to adapt. The technical solution should be very simple: a check box in preferences that says "prevent me from entering Mature areas" (similar to the filter in search). Then just add a check in the TP or sim-crossing routine for the rating of the destination sim and prevent entry if the rating is inappropriate. This way, those who wish to be protected from seeing anything that would upset them will be catered for at no inconvenience to everyone else.

There you go, problem solved.

Linden Lab has said under the new standard that any reference to social alcohol or drug use is not PG.

If I mention that I'm having a beer right now, then this post is no longer PG.

There are viable alternatives to your platform for our purposes, Linden Lab. We're already examining alternatives (Many of which seem more suitable) as to where to take further and future grant money.

Are you listening, Linden Lab? This is a showstopper.

• We're not on the teen grid.
• Teens aren't alowed on the normal grid.

Why is there a special age-verification required for PARTS of the normal grid, when non-adults shouldn't be allowed there at all?
Either lock down the entire normal grid with age verification or not at all.
Choosing only PARTS of the grid is basically admitting that LL is knowingly letting teens onto the normal grid.

----------------

Also: The age verification is VERY american-centric. I'm dutch and encounter the following problems:

• I can only enter a five digit postalcode. Dutch ones are 6 (9999AA format). I think most of the world has more than 5 digits.
• European identity card number is refused.
• Social security number is refused.
• Driver's Licence number is refused.

Simply put; I cannot verify my age through your current system, because the system is not recognizing my identification.

I remember trying the same thing when age verification was just introduced, with the same problems. I also filled in the form for complaints but apparently this has not helped.

p.s. I'm not a lawyer, but don't some countries also have laws prohibiting entertainment companies from requesting this type of identification information. That might be a possible #8 concerning international legal problems.

LL's reasons to justify this complex move are so idiot that can not be true obviously. Beside the Teen Grid merge i did not see yet any other credible hypothesis about what is the real final goal and business driver. Even to get back the "big corporations" seems a quite unrealistic reason, other are the reasons behind their current cold approach. A ticket to enter the Adult continent? Maybe... but in this case i would choose other adult-themed 3D worlds.
With banning the gambling they linearized their exponential growth, making new competitors happy and healthy, now the same will happen with this move. They will not listen our suggestions, they already decided everything and in a hypocrite false-democratic manner gave us the possibility to whine here and there. The only way is to stop to spend money with them, full stop, just do it.

Here are some concrete examples of how:

• In the last couple of weeks my partner and I have withdrawn our RL company from Second Life by closing down its office and leaving the business park and associated networking group that we belonged to.

• Instead we are now working on creating an OS Grid or other distributed-grid virtual worlds offering, since we think that is now the future and what we need to be concentrating on rather than wasting time on SL. We're a creative business and we need more than a glorified IM and conferencing system. If you limit residents' creativity with restrictions and censorship then you've taken away all the value for us.

• We are using the money saved to sponsor a project that has a web presence outside SL and will be therefore accessible to people who cannot or will not engage with the content filtering and age verification systems.

• I have also sold off my personal land holding and stopped virtually all in-world transactions, as I anticipate a dramatic decline in the level of access I can achieve when the new policies are implemented. Clearly I am not going to be adding to my inventory when I expect to have severely limited use from its contents

• I have stopped building, scripting, creating in-world because - well, what's the point when my access is going to be crippled in a few weeks? I'm going to put my time, energy and creativity into new projects outside SL from now on.

I'm voting for this proposition because it basically asks you to stop wrecking your product and driving your customers away to other systems. I don't actually think you'll take a blind bit of notice.

And I think that you are effectively finished anyway, as the development of a distributed grid where we all host our own individual sims as we would websites, with avatars and inventory that will one day travel seamlessly between them, is so clearly the way forward. It's certainly where this entrepreneur and an awful lot of others, are now working.

You could think again. But you won't. And, actually, that could be the best thing in the long run for the development of virtual worlds, if it makes people get off their backsides and create something better than you can offer them.

Gigs: I was aware of the drug use mentions = Adult but social alcohol consumption? Do you have a source for this?

Second Life raised with the possibility of having mature/adult content like gambling, beastiality, rape role-play, virtual sex or age-play groups.
You also can say that, Linden Research Inc. delivered the breeding ground for those activities. And for sure, that type of activities and content is most appealing to Linden Labs major revenue generating user base.

You can't have it all, Linden Research...

"A Region may be designated PG so long as it does not advertise or make available any content that is suggestive of any (even mildly) sexual or violent themes, or references to social drug or alcohol usage."

https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6010

However I was under the impression that this was going to be edited, nothing has been so far though.

RESEARCH HOW MANY MATURE REGIONS U HAVE - IMAGIN ALL OF THE MATURE REGION OWNERS REMOVE THEIR SIMS AND DONT PAY TIER ANYMORE - NOW WOULD THAT DAMAGE LL? I CERTAINLY THINK IT WOULD

DONT LET THEM IMPOSE SILLY LAWS ON OUR BACK - WE PAY SO THEY CAN WORK - PARENTS NEED TO USE THE BABYSITTER FUNKTION ON THE COMPUTER AND WATCH WHAT THEIR KIDS DO - NOT WE (APART OF THE FACT THAT ON TV THE SEE WAY WORSE THINGS AND NOBODY THINKS THAT SHOULD ALL BE REMOVED OR WATCHED WITH APPROVAL OF THE TV STATIONS)

split the grids and make it visible when entering a mature region - the desicion to enter is up to the customer - if a minor gets in his parents are guilty.

SL has been a good toy for many many adults and a place to live out fantasies, should we now take the restriction of our fantasies due to some puretanian spoilsports that think that we all have to live without any thrill or fantasies.
it would be way better to kick some parents arse to execute their parental work and watch what their kids do in their freetime
u can BLOCK certain pages from access for ur kids - use that funktion to block them from sl if u dont like them to use it.

ADULTS MAKE UR INCOME LL - DONT FUCK AROUND WITH OUR FREEDOM !

To the Tune from my Fair Lady "Just you wait"

Just you wait, Philip Linden, just you wait!
You'll be sorry, but your tears'll be to late!
You'll be broke, and we'll have money;
Will we help you? Don't be funny!
Just you wait, Philip Linden, just you wait!

Ooooooh Philip Linden!
Just you wait until we're leaving in the droves!
Ooooooh Philip Linden!
And then you'll get cramps all the way to your toes!
When you yell you're going to drown
We'll tell you that you were a clown!
Oh ho ho, Philip Linden!
Oh ho ho, Philip Linden! Just you wait!

Just you wait, Philip Linden, till you're sick,
And you scream to fetch a doctor double-quick.
We'll be off a second later
Saying your such a traitor..
Oh ho ho, Philip Linden, just you wait!

Then they'll march you, Philip Linden to the wall
And the net will tell us: 'Residents, sound the call.'
As we raise our mouses higher, we'll shout 'Ready! Aim! Retire!'
Oh-ho-ho, Philip Linden, Down you'll go, Philip Linden.
Just you wait!

I have read a few posts here that this was made to target "Gorean" Sims. Heck, as I stated above, I play in mostly mature sims and i have NEVER been to a Gorean sim because "I never LOOKED for it!" Seems filtered enough for me, doesn't it?

Will be a true loss to Me personally as i have made friends and have enjoyed a rather fun and open environment to enjoy My fetishes and lifestyle, and will be a true loss when i lose it, as i do not want to even TRY to log into SL when the most highly trafficked areas are moved close together and the lag becomes horrible, as, anyone that knows Me, my computer would simply never be able to let me enjoy SL in any way that might be considered fun.

Well was a nice run while it lasted!

(2) The key words will be obvious and blatant, there's no NEED to publish a list unless you want to "game the system" and dodge around them.
Please give us some credit here, filters really don't work 'Breast' filters our Breast cancer, a subject of great interest to half of the population. It is extreamly difficult to make a list of Adult words that doesn't have a high false positive rate, and what are we going to do with other languages? Chinese? Japanese? Russian? Each with their own different set of 'Adult' acronyms and phrases.

(3)Age verification: Huge can of worms for Privacy and many other issues not to mention that it is badly broken still for people outside of the US.

(4)Awww, clicking something is so hard? Jesus, here's a box of tissues...
Perhaps you should go back to the Teen grid, that was a very Middle school comment. Changing the default search causes problems. Do it the other way, Click to disallow adult search items. Awww clicking something so hard?

(5) no argument

(6)So content is not just content it is actions as well? The the status of a parcel can change from moment to moment? Or a pair of third parties can come along and change your parcel from Mature to Adult by emoting '/me takes a pair of pliers and twists her nipple' . By this logic all simes, even the most PG are adult, because you can't stop people from emoting.

@AngelicDomme Magic Actually this is all aimed at mainland not at Private Island Sims, almost all active Gorean lands are on Private Islands. But Goreans are ... um ... touchy about things like this because Gor is so terribly Politically Incorrect.

2. I am in a group with Rich, SHB's (Super Hot B's) Would that make it so I am not allowed to step onto my land in Miramare under the new definitions? YIKES!

It is very confusing as to the details of all this. LL may have created one long domino fall and they tipped the first one over with this. They need to get ahead of the falling dominos and pull out a couple to stop it quick.
Too many issues have not been taken into consideration.

Wrong Hope. Private islands are very much affected by this. In a way worse so. many are floating alone on the map. Atleast those on the mainland will be grouped together and will more easily spotted on the map as a large cluster. Bottom line is, all adult venues will soon become invisible to unverifieds regardless if they are on adult mainland or adult private islands.

I'll take YOUR points one at a time, in order:
(1) Repeat customers will find that their landmarks no longer work, that sound like banishment to me. (They have stated many times that they'll have a good amount of "grace period" during which the old LMs will redirect you to the new place.) You have to move your goods to another place, banished. (Might be problematic to some, not to others... we just moved to a new sim in January for our own reasons, it's not that big a deal if you have a decent familiarity with rezzing and editing) You have to rebuild your place of buisness, banished. (see last)

(2) Please give us some credit here, filters really don't work 'Breast' filters our Breast cancer, a subject of great interest to half of the population. It is extreamly difficult to make a list of Adult words that doesn't have a high false positive rate, and what are we going to do with other languages? Chinese? Japanese? Russian? Each with their own different set of 'Adult' acronyms and phrases. (Making a list available won't fix the limitations of filtering, and as soon as they add a new word someone forgot - e.g. "Felching" or "Rimjob" etc - someone will cry "That wasn't on the published list!!!" even though it's obviously belonging there)

(3) Age verification: Huge can of worms for Privacy and many other issues not to mention that it is badly broken still for people outside of the US. (Very true, and this was an issue well before they started this Adult tempest, in several earlier JIRA entries, where the Age Verification issue belongs)

(4) Perhaps you should go back to the Teen grid, that was a very Middle school comment. Changing the default search causes problems. Do it the other way, Click to disallow adult search items. Awww clicking something so hard? (Great to see you're above what you scoff at, see you on the playground at recess! But either way, a click is a click, easy to do, this is not an issue)

(5) no argument

(6) So content is not just content it is actions as well? The the status of a parcel can change from moment to moment? Or a pair of third parties can come along and change your parcel from Mature to Adult by emoting '/me takes a pair of pliers and twists her nipple' . By this logic all simes, even the most PG are adult, because you can't stop people from emoting. (Yes, just as in RL if I walk up and punch you in the mouth it's a crime - battery - and if I SAY "I'm going to punch you in the mouth!" it's also a crime - assault - and both are violent, both jar the victim's sensibilities. Emoting is a huge part of the sexual experience of many in here, and can be more graphically violent than any animations in SL. And the inability to STOP people from emoting doesn't mean they WILL emote in an extreme manner, in a PG sim... that's fallacious, and a poor attempt to turn my intent into something it obviously wasn't.)

Besides, none of what I said is being represented as a "be-all and end-all" statement of the "facts", like this JIRA issue is. It was poorly researched, misrepresented, and skips a lot of what's been covered in the Forums. My post is my opinion on the matter, not a knee-jerk reactionary rant like so much I'm seeing posted. I've been watching the Forums and keeping a close eye on the ACTUAL plans, and LL's comments and responses, and neither I nor my business interests will be impacted enough to be bothered with it. I believe that over 90% of the alarm is completely off-base due to lack of understanding - a large part of what's left, from the few who take the time to follow the facts and not the tired rhetoric, belongs to other, established JIRA entries. But there are, nonetheless, valid concerns stemming from this issue.

I can't help but feel that the solution to this is the same as the solution to under 18's, make an alternet version of sl catering to them, perhaps call it "Second life : business/cencored", and only alow content related to business uses and pg domestic and social area's. This coupled with the old varification system (which many of us campainged hard to keep).

That way the minority gets there way without disrupting the majoirty unneciceraly, that is by and large how we live in democratic societies. With the added bonus that businesses useing SL for design presentations or whatever else know that they will not have naked men with prim genetels landing on them.

This way also alows people to have their cake and eat it, they can have an account on the business/cencored and on the main grid so when they are feeling fragile, unstable or whatever other issue courses them to fear adult human interaction they can relax there, when they are feeling more stable they can come into normal SL.

No drama, no screams of the millions of disrupted people.

((Sorry about the poor spelling I'm dyslexic))

gasp and eyes bugging out - "What, SL has BUGS??" - chortling and smiling

1) I'm very (virtually) real, ask most of the People who play in Gor. Rather hard to login to the Jira with out a SL account you know.
[ cool, I never liked Gor after reading the novels many years ago, but I sure want those who DO enjoy it to be able to do so! ]

2) See Search is already somewhat broken, now we want to add filters??? Give me a break they're going at this all backasswards Make Ursula a PG continent, fix age verification, make adult/mature searche be an opt OUT check:
[] Don't show Adult search
[] Don't show Mature search
[ smiles happily at you I love that idea, it's perfect for the needs of the situation!! If anyone should be "herded into a small corral" it's the quivering Puritans who faint at the sight of VIRTUAL sex and/or blood!! High-5 ]

Viva La SEPERATE Teen Grid!!!!

They may also use SL to obtain customers, then invite them to their Open Sim for a Fee - (Open Sim is a like SL but it is privately hosted on your own personal server not attached to SL but you can visit using your SL viewer from a URL).

Also consider that every Visitor, Group Member, Employee, Dancer, Provider, Escort, DJ, Vendor (basically everyone that touches you) will have to be Age/Payment Verified and have opted in (clicked the Mature/Adult box in their Viewer).

BDSM lovers...this includes your Girls, Boys, Doms, Dommes, Masters, Mistresses, Pets, Submissives, Slaves, Sissys, Ladyboys, and even the mention of Collars, Control, Gorean, Hypnosis, Drugs, Alcohol may also be included here...

This issue also concerns people who have/use bots (love them or hate them) because every Bot will now need to be Payment/Age verified too!

BTW...If Linden were to shut off all the Bots (based on the bot software log in signature) their numbers (LL Currently Online) would drop by 10,000 instantly.

Now, add in all the hoops, rules, regulations, and fees above and the fact that many Non-US Residents can't age verify or even use Pay-Pal (it is Illegal in some countries).

Then consider LL will think...Hmmmm we could charge 29.95 Monthly for the Mature/Adult/XXX Option

LL have not shot themselves in the foot...THEY HAVE JUST BLOWN OFF THEIR LEG...AND THEY ARE ABOUT TO BLEED TO DEATH!

If Linden cannot see from all these comments and vote that what they are doing is wrong, then they are an even bigger bunch of morons than we thought.

For 1 if they start charging 29.95 per month access then I will definately be leaving as the exchange rate will screw me and I am sure there will be other people as well.

Lin

What the heck is wrong with you ??????????

Adult content is a part of our lifes..Sl AND Rl......dont you have Sex in the US?..Oh,no you dont ..sorry my fault !
A 12 year old get arested by the police cause he kissed his cousin on the cheek .The naighbour called the polic and called him a raper....duhhhh.
NOW you think you can get my personal informations ??? What will happen with it ? Will my bankaccount be empty in a minute or some terrorists
take my personal info, ban it on a licens and travle to the states?????? NOT THIS WAY GUYS!!! I am from Germany and the only one who is surposed to see my driving licens / ID Card is a police officer...AND NO ONE ELSE !!!!!!! OUR Govanourment hits us green and blue not to share any personal info with ANYONE...now you come along and play Monopoly with it ...SHAME ON YOU . If you give us a proper solution to verify our accounts then we all wouldnt have a problem with it .
You really think you could keep away children from adult stuff by banning all mature stuff? Hell no.
If a under 18 year old CAN crack into Sl dont you think he/she hasnt every saw a Nipple or a Penis already ?????
So ...what is this ??...OHHHHH ,NOW I GET IT....cleaning out Sl for the big RL Companys bringing the Goodies !!!!!
You just play with us ...BUT we are the ones who raised Sl to the point as it is now . What do you think would happen if all the
Landowners in Sl dont pay their Tier for a month ...HUUUU??? Crawl back under your stones and leaf us the fuck alone with those crap .

Better fix Sl ...THAT would be a revolution!!!!!!!

Amen

"Please Remember that Pjira has guidelines posted here https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/PJIRA#Be_courteous. I would also recommend you all please watch your language when posting as this is also used by the teen grid. "

"What will also happen is that - as in RL, Prostitution/Organized Crime/Gangs/Mafia/Private Clubs/Super Hard Core/Edge Play will go to exclusive private Islands (that are not marked as such) but they will market themselves in ways that get around the system...Pimping, Spamming, IMing, Data Collection, Listening, Watching, Spying, Data Mining and Real World Data tools, Search Manipulation, etc.
They may also use SL to obtain customers, then invite them to their Open Sim for a Fee - (Open Sim is a like SL but it is privately hosted on your own personal server not attached to SL but you can visit using your SL viewer from a URL). This isn't specific to the issue at hand, it already goes on and pre-dates the Adult classification idea. Anywhere there's L$ to be made, there will be sharks in the water.

"Also consider that every Visitor, Group Member, Employee, Dancer, Provider, Escort, DJ, Vendor (basically everyone that touches you) will have to be Age/Payment Verified and have opted in (clicked the Mature/Adult box in their Viewer).
BDSM lovers...this includes your Girls, Boys, Doms, Dommes, Masters, Mistresses, Pets, Submissives, Slaves, Sissys, Ladyboys, and even the mention of Collars, Control, Gorean, Hypnosis, Drugs, Alcohol may also be included here..." that's pretty far out on the limb of speculation, how do you mean "everyone that touches you"?

"This issue also concerns people who have/use bots (love them or hate them) because every Bot will now need to be Payment/Age verified too!
BTW...If Linden were to shut off all the Bots (based on the bot software log in signature) their numbers (LL Currently Online) would drop by 10,000 instantly." there are 10,000 bots? interesting, I'd love to see the figures you're basing that on

"Now, add in all the hoops, rules, regulations, and fees above and the fact that many Non-US Residents can't age verify or even use Pay-Pal (it is Illegal in some countries)." Definitely a problem, they need to come up with a good, useable, and reliable means to verify age!!

"Then consider LL will think...Hmmmm we could charge 29.95 Monthly for the Mature/Adult/XXX Option" They could have done that with Mature, adding Adult doesn't affect the odds there one whit

"LL have not shot themselves in the foot...THEY HAVE JUST BLOWN OFF THEIR LEG...AND THEY ARE ABOUT TO BLEED TO DEATH!" Funny thing is, people who AREN'T worried to death about this whole thing almost never see a need to yell from a soapbox - which makes the yelling ones feel like a huge majority. Take the 10,000 bot figure you threw in there, and then stop and think: There are 2,000 votes on this JIRA at present, and some (including my own) are from people who want it resolved but have NO plans to leave SL. Where are all the pieces of Linden Leg? Where is the blood spurting from? With a figure of 70,000 online, even if you DOUBLE your bot numbers, that'd still leave 50,000 humans... and take 2,000 (making the false concession that every vote is someone who'd leave over it) away, that's a measly 4% and paying accountholders have more reason to stay than gypsies on a free account. Plug in more believeable numbers, like (maybe) 5,000 bots and (generous here) 500 of the voters who'd actually leave... and Linden Labs would have 65,000 humans and lose a whopping 0.0077% of their users, and not all are even paying them.

LL: Create a new, non-fantasy Grid (RL2?) with it's own rules. It can share Avitar Accounts and Assets with the SL grid, buy seperate log on. No confusion over which rules apply to your given situation. No self-appointed Morality Police harassing both residents and the already busy LL support team.

Adult Content as present being implement will leave a sterile, empty world as we all move to BlueMars.

Unless there is documented proof that mature content is being somehow abused by those who cannot legally view it then those who CAN legally view it cannot be rightfully punished in this way, nor can we be charged either lindens or real life money for anything relating to the non-abuse and knee-jerk reaction that this seems to entail.

This is either insanity, or a truly amazing trolling effort.

Thanks

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Issue_tracker

Makes me hope a Linden comes through here and punts it clean off the JIRA and suspends the posting ability of the stubborn. This is to track SOFTWARE BUGS, people, not politics!

And Lindens? Please. By all means, suspend my Jira posting ability over using what is now our last resort to tell you again that this is a rolling train wreck. I'm only the fellow who worked directly and tirelessly as an owner and devout tester during Havok 4's period in a 40-sim main grid pilot rollout, trying physics function after physics function to work directly with Sidewinder during his tenure. And Mono. And the new shaders...

• One of those "ten people".

PS: What's the R-value on the box you've got Jack Linden locked away in? The insulation value of that material would be a credit to science!

I'm sure that the number of people who have voted for it doesn't even represent the real numbers either since many people are totally unaware of what a JIRA is, much less what they are used for. I think LL should send out a notice to ALL residents via a blue dialog box informing them of the changes to adult content and then see how many people suddenly sit up and take notice about what is going on. They won't do it though because it's better to surprise the masses rather than have them all running here to vote and have their voice heard.

If there was a better way of getting through to LL then it would be used, but at this point there isn't, this is the only way solely through the number of votes can it become clear that the majority does NOT want this. I really don't care what Meta Linden said, the voices of those who are not within SL right now really do not matter. It should be the voices of those who ARE here that matters first and foremost and right not it isn't mattering. That's the problems.

Quote:

"Hi Thorn-

We do see your concerns, I'm sorry that we don't have time to reply most individual comments, but yes your feelings are valid and deserve to be heard, and we hear you, and your concerns are echoed by others, i.e. you are not alone.

The main things I can point to in response, is:
A) there are a lot of very positive supportive comments from existing residents saying "it's about time" - and that particularly is coming from Adult Content Creators, and several others working here, so there's no universal consensus - no simple way to make everyone happy all the time.
B) The voice you are NOT hearing on the forums (by definition) is the millions of new potential users we want to enjoy Second Life like you do, but aren't here yet. Surveys of people who tried SL but decided it wasn't for them, as well as feedback from new organizations (educational, corporate, and other social networks), pointed out the high visibility of AO content in M spaces as a blocking concern for them. It is for these silent potential users we are making this change.

I am sorry that this change is causing you stress and worry. I ask that you have some measure of patience and trust in us, and please continue giving feedback as this change rolls out, and also please read through the current blog posts and the details about the new policy. If you look at the specifics of the new program, I believe that most of your concerns will be allayed.

Have a great weekend, and thanks again."

Here is the link for anyone that is interested in seeing it themselves. Look about 1/2 way down the page to find their response. https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=103376&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=120

Well what will be happen if the planned System ruins my Business or prevents me to get in my Home? I will stop my Business and i will stop bringing in RL Money to pay Tier, Rent or Clothes and Sex related items. I pay nearly €70 each month on Tier/Rent and so on to Landlords of private Sims. This Money will go to Linden Lab because the Landlords pay Tier too. So do not say because you are have not a premium account, your words have no worth. I pay more in Tier as a premium account will cost! If it matters i will upgrade, but not at the moment where things seem to go worse. But not only me, most people here will bring in much Money each Month. Why we shall take care for a minority? Who brings the Money in? The Majority or the small amount of people where is affected by adult content? Heh? Where is your sense for business LL?
Stop this all and declare SL to what it is since it grows up... a Adult Plattform not a teen and not a child Grid. If you like, make a teen grid and one for thoose where are affected by adult content but arent able to get away from this.

ASK THEM BY ACCOUNT CREATION IF THEY ARE AFFECTED BY ADULT CONTENT AND FILTER ALL OUT FOR THEM!

Another thing is the faked adults.
Verified adult means only the little boy was clever enough to 'LOAN' Dads ID or Creditcard for typing in the needed information. Not more.
In Germany only one adult verification System is valid before the Laws: Post Ident Verification.
This means a Postman comes to your Home and he verifys your Identity. Then he will fill out some papers and sends them back to the Requester. By the way, in this case the smart little Boy will be caught .
Ron

This isn't a soapbox, once again the JIRA is for tracking SOFTWARE BUGS. It'd be more appropriate, if you really do feel ignored, to submit an Abuse Report against every active Linden as well as anyone else disagreeing with you.

Once the dust finally settles, the vast majority of us will be saying "Hm, wasn't so bad after all, why'd I freak out?"

Ignore the priority, people - it's just a little piece of text that LL ignores anyway. It doesn't effect anything at all, folks.

Im grown up - adult! for a really long time. And I worked with children for more or less 10 years. In my privat times I want to "play" and be with other adults and not with children anymore.
I like SL, like it was more then one year ago.
What I dont like, dont want and wont respect is when Linden means to hear to a minority, change all we have into a playground for children and those who are going nervous if they see a piece of naked skin.
If they dont want to see it, ok, I respect that, but respect too that I can handle such things.

Parents have to look after their own children, safe them and take care to them - and not the whole world but the own parents. Internet and Second Life wasnt ever made for children. If they get a place there, ok. But that they get all rights while the older .. adults cant do what they want?
Hello?
If Linden does a special grid for all those people who want to hide all that could be dangerous for their minds, well where is problem, Im pretty sure they could do such a grid. And all other can be and do what they ever did.

Here were given a lot of good ideas to safe children and all who dont want to watch games they dont like. It could be easy.

Well I dont know what other will do when LL does what they plans. I know what I will do if LL takes me and my family all sense here - and takes me all interest to buy lindens. I simple will leave LL then to their games and try to find another place to do what I like to do.

If you belive that all basic accounts doesnt count, I would be very interested to see what would happen if all those basics would leave, wouldnt you?

Greetings

Alannah

This is insane. LL has gone from PG meaning content that would be appropriate for a PG move (the original definition way back) to their current definition of which seems to be "PG = G", and now plans to implement restrictions that are even more stringent than those of a G-rated move.

While Lindens have backtracked on the level of changes to PG in forum postings and office hour comments, the actual definition HAS NOT CHANGED, so any such comments by individual Lindens are meaningless.

Besides, after recent experience, I doubt many of us have any real confidence in the Lindens' ability to handle the technical side of this in a competent fashion. Age Verification still doesn't work properly for non-US residents- so what will happen to sim owners outside the US who want to have their land adult-rated?

The existing system would work perfectly well if it weren't for their fear that some precious 'business' client might happen to see a naked avatar... and why would that be such a big deal? A collection of pixels making up a- rather stylised- drawing of a human body without clothes on. I suspect most people in the 'business community' have seen those before. Come to that, if the Lindens seriously believe that any teenager with internet access hasn't seen naked human beings on their computer screen before now- and not been harmed by it in any way whatsoever- then they're somewhat out of touch with reality.

Of course, there is that other dimension- the fear of paedophiles (the modern bogeyman) using Second Life to draw children in- but really, Second Life is a medium. The same holds true for e-mail, for chat rooms and message boards, for the internet- and there were plenty of people back in the 90s who thought the internet was BAD per se, just because there was pornography floating about on it and children might encounter it... but it's part of everyone's everyday lives now. Telephones... the written word, for that matter. Illiterate parents used to- and still do- distrust books and educators for putting ideas into their childrens' heads that they weren't equipped to understand themselves.
Of course there's a risk. However, there's also a risk of skin cancer whenever anyone goes out into the sun- and yes, I know that people do dress their children up in sun hats, shove them into shaded pushchairs, coat them with anti-sun gloop whenever there's a glimmer of light... all in their native climate with a level of sunlight that their skin is adapted to cope with... but these parents are called 'foolish', and their children or grandchildren are quite likely to eventually be called 'people with rickets'. The same applies in this case.

Say no to Linden Labs!

And that doesn't look anywhere big enough to accomodate all of the adult content in SL.

countless small shop owners like me who might sell a bed or two with the basic sex animations in it. big free sex areas like bukkake bliss and cum'fort zone. Hell, every skin store in creation since omgwtfnipples are adult content.

"Nemesis I think it's rather obvious that you don't agree with many on this issue. That's fine, don't vote for the JIRA, but for those of us who do disagree this is one of the only options left for getting the attention of LL." Actually, if you'd been reading instead of skimming, you'd know that I DID, in fact, vote for it - even while disagreeing that THIS is the right place for it, or that it's as horrid as some think it is.
"We will use this to our benefit and let our voices be heard. Just as nobody is asking you to be quiet and go away, please do not expect us to do the same. We want LL to hear what we have to say, and by having solid numbers to point to in the form of JIRA votes, it makes it easier to point out that the majority does NOT want this." First off, I never asked anyone to go away EITHER lol - and second, none of that justifies using the JIRA as a platform to "have your voices heard" anymore than me wiping my butt with your newspaper would be justified if there was no toilet paper handy. This should never have BEEN posted in the JIRA - but once it was, the rumormill grinds away and Group IMs spam the URL and cry "Vote For SL Freedom!" without giving a single relevant fact.

@Sindy Tsure:

"Nemesis, ARing Lindens over this won't accomplish anything." oh lord, someone who has no clue about what ironic sarcasm is about
" Worse, there will be no public record that anybody did anything to protest this project. At least with JIRA, there's an actual, visible number that people can look at and see N people voted for this in just X hours - until LL gives us some other voting mechanism, this is what we've got." Actually, the Forums are made for debates and opinions and, well, everything that's going on in here! The JIRA isn't a soapbox to give a voice to opinions regarding sweeping policy changes, it's to track software bugs in the Viewer or Grid. Using it as a forum to vent and huddle together in a common cause is, quite simply, misuse.

"Ignore the priority, people - it's just a little piece of text that LL ignores anyway. It doesn't effect anything at all, folks."
apparently so - and it's such a comfort to think that this sort of thing has jaded them to a point where a serious and sweeping software bug might take weeks or months before being acted on because they ignore that little piece of text.

@ Rowan Thursday: Hear, hear! Applause, kudos, and WELL SAID!

...This whole Adult rating issue needs to be settled in a sensible manner that doesn't impinge on anyone's rights or step on anyone's toes - but that's kinda impossible, given such a wide range of very polarized opinions. Not to mention the level of sheer misunderstanding of the issues involved - there are a LOT of references in here, for instance, mentioning things that Linden Labs says isn't Adult but Mature - and yet the comments are crying about these activities forcing them to go Adult! How many of you even knew anything about this issue until the Group IM-spamming started spreading this JIRA's URL all over? I know that SOME did - but it's clear that many just stepped in at the sound of the trumpets...

As I said, I Voted to have this fixed - but it was like Voting to have my brakes fixed because they were made in Taiwan.

If there are residents who want a "safe" PG-rated Second Life, THEY should be the ones bearing the costs of getting what they want. Create a new PG continent instead, and let the people who want that experience move to it.

Very true, but the confusion is understandable given several examples like the following:

On the forums, Blondin started by saying a shop SELLING kinky gear but without the expectation that it would be in public use at the store would be rated Mature, not Adult. All well and good if that was how it remained.. Now fast-forward to what happens when we get our hands (briefly) on the RC and start testing...

OK, so you can sell the equipment from Mature land. You cant, however, advertise it from there because the "forbidden word list" means you cant tell anyone about it either in classified or parcel description without your ad or description being flagged adult and you cant do that on Mature land....

In addition there's been a huge incidence of "definition creep" through this progress and therefore I must sympathize with people who are not relying on rules or standards offered so far - they've just been too inconsistent, except in the tendency to become more restrictive over time and less rational.

I, personally, do not want to see anything close to porn or anything else "adult". The only time I come across such is when I go out looking for something else and the thing I was looking for is in a mixed location (as in "Mature", not "Adult"!). Moving some stuff to an "adult continent" won't stop that from happening, but making a "PG continent" probably would. Of course I'm cool with leaving well enough alone too.

https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=1434500

If you have any problems getting it you can IM me directly and I'll send it you you

UPDATE:

Jack & M Accepted my Notecard early this morning. I have not had any contact from them or any Lindens, and really wasn't expecting too. I'm sure they are hoping this will all fade away. But I do have a suggestion. Since they have stated that they haven't heard from "US". How about we all put out a very nice notecard to them.... No Bad language, no threats, No spamming... Keep it very professional. Put together a quick paragraph, let them know how this will affect you, offer alternatives if you like, Direct them to this Jira, Ask that they give us some answers. BUT ABOVE ALL REMAIN PROFESSIONAL, I'm not kidding here.... nothing will kill our efforts more if we start spamming them with trash.

Jack Linden will be easy to find in Search, But M Linden will get you an error that the first name is too short, so it will list ALL Lindens. No problem... just click on the link at the bottom of the name list and have it show you the next 10... His will be right near the top. REMEMBER...... BE PROFESSIONAL.... Or don't bother sending anything....

Keep up the great work everyone.... And have a great weekend....

https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=1434500

Put your pants on and get put back credit card verification, afaik kids cannot legally possese credit cards and if they take the credit card of their parents, THEY are to blame, NOT LINDEN LAB.

"Eleven percent of teens have credit cards in their names. The percentage increases with age, with 6.2 percent owning credit cards at ages 13-14 and 21 percent at age 18 and up."

Source: http://www.cardratings.com/creditcardnews/2005/06/teen-credit-card-use-on-rise.html

Therefore at least this percentage of teens are able to verify their SL account via the payment info route.

What about users who are unaware of the impending changes (seems to be a great deal, if not an outright majority), and are not age-verified (again, seems to be a large number, if not an outright majority of users), who own or rent land in a (private) sim that will, for whatever reason (condos near a club, nudist area, or just general adult-friendly or not-adult-hostile region), be classified as "Adult."

When the changes are implemented, they will not be able to access their land or see it in search (presumably).

If an uproar is not caused beforehand, I have to imagine that every unfortunate person caught off-guard in this manner will have a very strong negative reaction to the changes.

In summary: Concurrence that inadequate measures have been taken to inform and prepare the userbase, especially in light of the particulary significant consequences.

http://www.slapt.me/wiki/index.php/Adult_Content_Keywords

We have several pages on the wiki and are looking for others to help us develop it while this Adult fiasco continues http://www.slapt.me/wiki

Move all adult business out of SL.

1.) Advertise on websites, using whatever rating of picture you wish.

2.) Accept money through check, money order, and credit card. Do NOT accept Linden dollars. Do not support the SL economy. Do not purchase large parcels. Make all goods non-transferrable, so they cannot be resold.

3.) Once payment is completed, deliver your goods remotely via a server hosted somewhere on the grid (my advice: rent or barter a tiny parcel from a friend). So long as the server itself has no visible "mature" content, and does not have to be indexed anywhere in search, it should be hostable anywhere, in any "rating" of parcel. (This is of course for adult business selling goods. Adult services is something a bit more tricky.)

In my opinion, it is time to move away from Linden Lab. For it is clear from their actions, Linden Lab does not want us.

This is clearly another very clever marketing step, like has been offering of hunderts lowprim areas and later enforcing their owners own atleast one fullprim sim, in name of vistors user experince *grins

Please, don't block this improvement of margin atlest in these areas:
1) prospective joining of teen and normal grin and high synergy comming from it
2) possible "adult tax" aplied trought higher adult land and account costs

We are speaking of thousands USD per year, atleast! You have no right block track of such business

And finally, don't think you would leave on opengrids, or are you ready:
1) throw away your inventory for hunderts USD on LL asset servers?
2) move on opensims in noob skins instead of your perfect expensive ones?
Me not.
So my choose is clear, bear this as long as it will be berable and then delete the account. Aynhow sadly have to much friends here to not accept this all...

take from this what you will but just know that i have nothing but good intentions in my words.

They key technical problem here is verification, a move people can rebuild with (though its not really favorable as it can take a long long time....) Verification however limits business. There are already search filters in place for parcels, There are descriptions etc. This will hinder the user experience for most people alot more then keeping the content, except the tiny tiny minority that actually want these changes and believe me when i say it is a tiny minority.

You want to improve the user experience really LL? If you do, then do not make these changes. And for the love of sam really.... I will tell you right now the motivation behind the people that "want this move". Its lag... lag from having a popular club or a popular adult shop in their region. If you ask people they do not complain about adult content but rather that that club or mall or whatever popped up next door to them.

Want to improve the user experience? Then listen to what the majority of your own users are asking of you, do not i repeat do not give into the vocal minority. Also learn to talk to all residents not just those that read the forums or blogs, most people miss this stuff so you have no real metrics who doesnt want this and who is for it. I gaurauntee you the number who do not want your adult content changes is alot higher then those that do. So what if you lose a big name corporation that wont survive here. This isnt a business only platform and its about time you realized that we the users have created most of what SL today. We gave people things to do here.

Cleaning up SL will not change the fundamental problems a business will have here if they want to survive. Most residents dont care for larger corporations even if they have things to do at their locations.... That is the key issue really, you're pushing away loyal customers to adhere to the minority and its saddening

If you are so concerned about minors on the grid then make the adult zone verified entry only (even though I still don't see the need for it, we all agreed to be 18+ when signing up). This way at least nobody would be forced to move to Ursula and existing landowners could use the land which they paid good money for in the way they had intended when purchasing it to at least some extent. Thouse who prefer Ursula could still move.

It's still not a 100% perfect solution, but I like the idea a lot better than what is currently planned.

In addition the whole plan seems rediculous when there is no better way to age verify, there simply will be too many people who can't with the current system.

I'd like to add more words to the list because War is bad, and we don't want the little children to hear about bad things, Bunker Hill, Boston, Long Island, Brandywine, Valley Forge, Yorktown,
\Waterloo, Bull Run, Manassas, Sharpsburg, Shilo, Vicksburg, Gettysburg, Chancelorsville, Fredricksburg, Wilderness, Marne, Bella Woods, Ypres, Passchendaele, Gallipoli, Cannae, Bastogne, Tarawa, Iwo Jima, Okainawa, also Army, Marines, Air Force, Navy , RAF, Red Army.

I looked on the 'not yet added words' list, Looks like Star Wars is going to be Adult too, Jedi master (master is a candidate word).

As the result of scattered reports of anti-virus program alerts triggered by 1.23 RC0 (Windows only), we have temporarily disabled further downloads of this release. We are actively investigating these reports and will provide an update soon. In the meantime, 1.22 RC11 has been re-enabled as the current Release Candidate viewer.

We are grateful to the residents who have brought this issue to our attention.

Thank you!

The second list is not "not yet added words", its "words tested and not on the list", that's a different thing

Overall this will end up hurting a lot of people in the short-term and be ripped out in a future SL version in the long term because the fundamental problem is that any keyword can be added to the ad text. Until LL takes control of what keywords can be specified (correct spelling and language) it's not possible to infer content as adult vs. non-adult.

The real short-term solution is to age verify your adult residents and prevent under age people from accessing the main grid. Case closed.

The bottom part of the list is words tested but not on the list as yet, please do not presume things as people do not want these words added and it is a continuation of the list that was on the LL wiki before Blondin removed it. we are trying hard to bring facts to everyone with this page and several of us are testing words and entering them on the list as we find them so people can see just how stupid this plan is.

There is lots of information on this wiki regarding these changes and it is intended as a historical as well as a current wiki and an independent place that people can contribute to without fear of pages being deleted by LL

Independent SLapt Wiki: http://www.slapt.me/wiki/

Adult changes - A balanced view: http://satiateddesires.wordpress.com/2009/05/03/second-life-adult-content-changes-how-theyll-affect-you-update-1/

(1) Words that were tested and found to be filtered

(2) Words that were tested and NOT filtered

(3) How variations from exact filtered word are handled

-Random sections of your body will turn transparent if you change your avatar mesh (ie, put on a new eyebrow base or shirt)
-If you turn your avatar away from a rezzed sculpted prim and turn back towards it, it'll have derezzed.
-Sculpted prims will simply vanish from sight and never rezz, though they collide as expected (they act 'ghosted')
-If a fully rezzed avatar changes clothing or outfits, sometimes they will de-rezz into a poof cloud.
-Camera controls are FRUITY. It's nearly impossible to cam into someone's face, as trying to alt click drag your camera UP their body makes your camera move DOWN unless you're actually focusing on a prim.

All of this, and they are more worried about appeasing the wailing minority and protecting the kids who are here ILLEGALLY than they are about fixing the bugs still plaguing the grid.

No, I haven't opened or even looked for issues pertaining to the bugs I've personally witnessed because I don't care anymore. Linden Labs obviously doesn't care enough to respond to this issue in spite of the massive number of votes. I could understand why they couldn't listen to the votes in terms of the homestead price increase - server costs don't pay for themselves and many people may not appreciate the massive volumes of information that has to be moved around - but this is a different beast entirely.

Don't try to force massive volumes of sellers of adult content to a cramped little continent. Make it PG for the minority instead. Let the education institutions set up shop there so they can sit deserted. Let those companies foolish enough to think we'd willingly expose ourselves to their advertising in second life though we're bombarded with it enough in first life cover every square meter of Ursula.

The rest of us are going to be in orgy rooms and BDSM clubs and dark roleplaying sims doing what we came here to do - enjoy adult content in a 100% safe environment.

To LL and people who mistakenly think that censorship will fix anything:

My Thesis In Question: What is life, for SecondLife to be able to call itself life? What can we learn from its namesake and why people cling to it, flaws and all?

Read on to learn, keep an open mind, and a close focus on what you shall find!

Make a continent where you filter things and let "pure" things in. Separate the people who can't stomach things from the people who want a second life with all its vices and virtues.. all of them. How is life, life, without the thorns on a rose? even if you don't enjoy things.. you tolerate them. Tolerance is something that we are reverting to not having. Tolerance is a gift.
Filtering for non-mature allowance to a different section of the grid is easier than filtering for mature. You can upload an image and voila, adult content. It takes a single upload to violate this policy. If you filter for non adult, it provides a buffer much like a firewall does in your computer. Its natural, its functional, its common sense. The people in the other land will have all things they can see accepted as not being mature, and thus they are safer for it.

I am not saying it is merely a better alternative to have a smaller land for the people who want to put themselves in a bubble (or are underage).
I am saying its a must.
I am saying its the only functional way.
I am saying its your only long term option.
I am saying its the option that will keep you better protected as a company from law suits from someone who saw an uploaded picture of adult content.

On the other hand, you can make a plastic game (not a second life, as a game by definition is particularly more restricted than a social simulation) full of plastic people (who can't admit that the mention of adult content doesn't make them die immediately, but instead they only react so harshly because society beckons them to).
You can see the sparks fly whenever you let a rush of phobic and underage people into a grid that shows them images they don't like. You can take financial hits when their parents all band together and sue you.

Thats not a good thing.. How about you leave the majority of the grid how it is. This is the way you set things forth.. and this is the understood agreement of our residence. Things will continue to flourish here without any roadblocks, and the production of good things will far outweigh the bad, such is life.

We can transfer anything acceptable to the "bubble" land that the people who want to be safe from.. "whatever they think is harming them.." reside in.

This is best financially, this is best philosophically, this is best humanly, this is best productively, this is best in every single way. Feel free to contact me. I will be glad to further explain and simplify my point for anyone who just can't grasp it.

Lets be honest people... do you want to go back in time to the sexually repressed Victorian times?
Women couldn't even vote back then. Do you want a chat filter to filter words like assassin? It simply filters things containing such words( blindly). No censor in any game has yet proven to do its job. None. they are mere bandages that only bind creativity in the long run. I can't tell you how many MMO do this, I can only tell you that it aggravates almost every player of those games, and that people WILL find a way around it, and if they can't.. the game is incredibly stiff.

The fact that violence and murder on par with serial killers is more widely accepted and shown than a human nipple is beyond comprehension! I'm not saying people have to like seeing it, but if they are offended by its existence, maybe they should consider having it surgically removed. Would most people do that? No, they wouldn't. It would be absurdly silly. Maybe it is a natural thing after all. Some say acceptance is deviance, but just considering it psychologically, it seems that the phobia of such things could be considered an illness. Grow up and acknowledge its existence. Do we subjugate all religions we don't like anymore? No, we don't. Why subjugate expression?

I want to continue to have my avatar be complete, flaws and all. I want the parts I was born with. If that makes me a pervert, so be it. At least I am not a gasping degenerate out of the movie Demolition Man.(Watch it, or at least go on wikipedia). Even though it may not happen, I want to have the option to find a lover through this. First and foremost, I want OTHERS to have that option. I've seen true relationships come from SL. I am not saying they succeed, nor saying they fail. I am simply saying its a part of life.

My Thesis Complete: I hereby say, as an edict of common sense! If you remove the vices and finer points such as romance from life, it is NOT LIFE. You therefore must rename SecondLife if these changes go forward to such a pathetic scale. To name it any kind of life, would be mislabeling a closed-minded videogame! Life is not censorship... no..... censorship is the death of progression!

Further points!

When you let one right fall, others fall with time, inevitably.

I'd love to see how the skin creators will have to blur every detail of their skin. Every character will be a barbie, as plastic as the people who put these rules into existence.

You wish to FEEL(and I do mean, feel, not be) righteous, moral, and maybe widen your audience? Make another game thats an RPG targeting younger audiences or something. You will get more money that way. Keep it out of the mature and open places. I am not saying you have to be adult oriented to support freedom of expression, you just need be open minded! Open-mindedness propels our societies forward and creates progress. The majority of people who want to play a game like this are mature enough to shrug off any adult content and be intelligent in how they react to said adult content and provide more in a mature manner. The griefers are an outlier.. Ever do math? Thats the numbers that aren't factored in because they are outside the average so much, they would change the entire average of the whole to reflect things incorrectly.

Griefers who shove adult content into your face, are not normally reflection of people with adult content. My collar (even though it has little or none to do with sex, and more to do with personality) is considered adult content. I do not shove it into peoples faces. You would be surprised to know that people in D/s and all other similar things are around you... Every. Single. Day. We don't wear metal collars or whips. People wear chokers to the work place.. its out of respect for people who don't need to go through it.

Some people, such as those who want things censored and political agendas, will shove things into your face! We, in the large majority, don't! We exhibit maturity, and respect, or at least that is how it is supposed to be. Private matters are made private more often than not. Its a part of the very codes of the people who are in BDSM type things. People who go to combat sims, have to agree to stay in the sim and possibly see (in text form) violence.

If you see sexual activity, it is more than not a griefer, a person without respect, or you put yourself into the situation.
You can't go into a subway wearing all your jewelry and not expect to be robbed.. It should be common sense. Every police officer would tell you that the first thing to protect yourself from harmful things is to avoid them. Learn tolerance, learn avoidance... and learn the complexity of things. A bandage falls off, after a while.

In reality, kids have their playpens and houses, and they venture out into the real world once they come to grips with reality. Let secondlife reflect life by letting the people come out of their playpens when they want.. as opposed to restricting everyone for the few.
What do I say to the people who don't have the stomach or age for life?

If you don't want to play with everyone else...
Confine yourself to your play pens.. your separate sims and bubbles. Its better off for everyone, really.

Just remember the keyword; --financial-- information.

But let's face it, it is not just Linden, the whole operation, Sl, is based on greed. From the make believe clubs that are only a pretext to support a store or a mall, to the no transfer diktat by more and more creators who are so afraid that I would hand down some of my undesired items FOR FREE. Why can I do it RL and not SL ? Simple they want one more L$. Their alibi that some miscreants would steal. multiply and resell their items and ruin the Sl economy is completely baseless, as they could easily make it transfer for lets say L$1, which would stop the shysters from pilfering their creation as who take the time for L$1, unless those creators themselves are after L$1.

It is all the same, adult contents, mature, the tiers and the no transfer, GREED

They just used a voice of purtitan minority to mask it and in slow steps disguised by clever PR, will rise profit before majority realises.

Thats why i don't see sense in resolving of the word lists. LL is enought motivated by the prospective profit to simply enforce it, and they need hurry with it before opengrid will not became competition.